Chapter 11

[Apple Scruff]

I have a lot to say to what people think about this chapter. I am kinda sad how everyone feels about this. I think we should all understand that RJ is not writing this, and BS is doing the best job that he can.RJ had a flow and way with writing characters that I do not believe anyone can duplicate, which i understood when BS took over the series, I think we should all be blessed and thankful that BS has taken over the series and has done such a wonderful job at it. The first two books he has written are fantastic and very well done with how he was thrown into it. Mat may not be perfect nor anyone else, but we are here to enjoy the series in its finale, not be angry that its not perfect. So i would just say stop picking apart every little peice, and enjoy one of the longest and greatest fantasy series ever written.

 

Thank you.

 

Here! Here!

 

The Wheel Weaves as the Wheel Wills.

 

RJ didn't finish the books. It's what happened. We can't change it. Our only option as fans was no ending or one written by someone else. BS is not RJ. He can't write what he would have written. He said as much this weekend. We didn't get the ending we wanted, but we got one. I for one plan to focus on that and be grateful to BS.

 

I told him at DC that he's my hero for doing this, and I meant it.

[Vardar]

Bloody hell!

 

Okay, now that I've finished reading, does anyone remember whether Pips was left behind in Caemlyn when Mat Traveled to the ToG? Because if he was, at least we know the city didn't burn to the ground.

 

As to the feel of that scene, I didn't much care for it. It's partly the humor, but mostly that Mat seems really unbalanced (really, you hear of assassins and just decide to drop every act? Never mind that people who don't know you will probably be ready to cut your throat just for uttering her name? And the wrong name at that!)

 

I figured, before it was stated, that Tuon would have passed his description around, especially to her soldiers. I mean, you don't want your husband killed by your army by accident right? It's not a good look. As for saying her name, he never used her title, I think the shock of realizing she was in danger broke his character, Mat was never one to let a female be hurt, or anyone close to him.

 

That being said, I loved it. But then again, I love Mat and nearly everything to do with him. Love the boots refrence.

[Vardar]

Another thing just hit me. Since when does Mat even consider ordering Ebou Dari ale? Even at Setalle Anan's inn he bypasses it because it is disgusting. i am currently on tPoD in my re-read, so I could be forgetting that he developes a taste for it later on, but in LoC and aCoS he claims it is undrinkable.

 

He's trying to do things Mat wouldn't do remember. So Mat wouldn't order Ale, so he orders it.

[Clouded]

At first I was very bothered that Seanchan man was completely accepting that someone used the name Tuon. After KoD, it's been burnt into my bones that if someone uses her name, every Seanchan in the region gets ruffled feathers. But I forgot about the aspect that she has taken a new name. Perhaps this is why Jame isn't so uppity when Mat intentionally uses the name Tuon twice.

[joeron bigelow]

Something bothers me about this excerpt:

 

Mat always travels with back up. I would think he would have some Redarms (in disguise) with him. I'm fairly certain one of his memories would have told him going solo is idiotic.

 

Mat doesnt spring to action unless the dice start rolling (or at least in my opinion...) but here he goes all bonkers about Galgan.

 

Also - arent the Seanchan supposed to be uber polite when discussing politics? It seems too casual in the bar.

 

 

Im not going to blame it on RJ or BS, just it didnt seem right.

[Makawn]

I think it may be a mistake to complete dismiss Jame as behaving in an unSeanchan nature. Seanchan is a large continent with many different cultures and peoples. Not all of them act the same way and have the same mannerisms. Perhaps Jame's behaviour is typical of wherever he is from. Also he is apparently newly arrived, if that means anything.

[joeron bigelow]

I think it may be a mistake to complete dismiss Jame as behaving in an unSeanchan nature. Seanchan is a large continent with many different cultures and peoples. Not all of them act the same way and have the same mannerisms. Perhaps Jame's behaviour is typical of wherever he is from. Also he is apparently newly arrived, if that means anything.

True...valid point.

 

but this is not book 2 or 3, introducing the various cultures of the Seanchan and their people. This is the FINAL book. Close out the Seanchan and balefire them into smithereens...

 

or in other words....cut out the new seanchan stuff unless it has something to do with the last battle. I've waited half my life for this original series of 6 books to end. Well I wasnt sitting around literally waiting...but you get my point. I hope.

[Graendal probably did it]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

[MarkDiLillo]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to. Hell, he could have kick her ass and tied her up himself anytime he wanted to. It was just awkward for him that he was not the one doing the chasing. The moment he actually wanted to leave he had no problem leaving.

[Terez]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to.

 

Except when she held a knife to his throat for trying...

 

It was too much. The woman hounded him, tried to starve him; now she locked them in together like... like he did not know what. Lambkin! Those bloody dice were bouncing around in his skull. Besides, he had important business to see to. The dice had never had anything to do with finding something, but... He reached her in two long strides, seized her arm, and began fumbling in her belt for the keys. "I don’t have bloody time for -" His breath froze as the sharp point of her dagger beneath his chin shut his mouth and drove him right up onto his toes.

 

"Remove your hand," she said coldly. He managed to look down his nose at her face. She was not smiling now. He let go of her arm carefully. She did not lessen the pressure of her blade, though. She shook her head. "Tsk, tsk. I do try to make allowances for you being an outlander, gosling, but since you wish to play roughly... Hands at your sides. Move." The knifepoint gave a direction. He shuffled backward on tiptoe rather than have his neck sliced.

 

"What are you going to do?" he mumbled through his teeth. A stretched neck put a strain in his voice. A stretched neck among other things. "Well?" He could try grabbing her wrist; he was quick with his hands. "What are you going to do?" Quick enough, with the knife already at his throat? That was the question. That, and the one he asked her. If she intended to kill him, a shove of her wrist right there would drive the dagger straight up into his brain. "Will you answer me!" That was not panic in his voice. He was not in a panic...

[b3arz3rg3r]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to. Hell, he could have kick her ass and tied her up himself anytime he wanted to. It was just awkward for him that he was not the one doing the chasing. The moment he actually wanted to leave he had no problem leaving.

 

Yes, he could have kicked her ass, if he had been willing to risk getting thrown into prison or out of town, I think he probably could have avoided the headsman if only because of Elayne's and Nynaeve's intervention. He may not have gotten raped, but he was at the very least coerced very strongly. Which is so much better.

[MarkDiLillo]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to.

 

Except when she held a knife to his throat for trying...

 

It was too much. The woman hounded him, tried to starve him; now she locked them in together like... like he did not know what. Lambkin! Those bloody dice were bouncing around in his skull. Besides, he had important business to see to. The dice had never had anything to do with finding something, but... He reached her in two long strides, seized her arm, and began fumbling in her belt for the keys. "I don’t have bloody time for -" His breath froze as the sharp point of her dagger beneath his chin shut his mouth and drove him right up onto his toes.

 

"Remove your hand," she said coldly. He managed to look down his nose at her face. She was not smiling now. He let go of her arm carefully. She did not lessen the pressure of her blade, though. She shook her head. "Tsk, tsk. I do try to make allowances for you being an outlander, gosling, but since you wish to play roughly... Hands at your sides. Move." The knifepoint gave a direction. He shuffled backward on tiptoe rather than have his neck sliced.

 

"What are you going to do?" he mumbled through his teeth. A stretched neck put a strain in his voice. A stretched neck among other things. "Well?" He could try grabbing her wrist; he was quick with his hands. "What are you going to do?" Quick enough, with the knife already at his throat? That was the question. That, and the one he asked her. If she intended to kill him, a shove of her wrist right there would drive the dagger straight up into his brain. "Will you answer me!" That was not panic in his voice. He was not in a panic...

 

OK I guess that qualifies as rape from her perspective. I am still of the opinion though that he could have stopped that if he had really wanted to. As soon as he found out what was going on I am sure he lost his will to resist despite the tense moments there. I mean this is a guy who can best the Gholam in hand to hand combat...a little woman with a knife is not going to give him much trouble as soon as she took it away from his throat for even a moment.

[MarkDiLillo]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to. Hell, he could have kick her ass and tied her up himself anytime he wanted to. It was just awkward for him that he was not the one doing the chasing. The moment he actually wanted to leave he had no problem leaving.

 

Yes, he could have kicked her ass, if he had been willing to risk getting thrown into prison or out of town, I think he probably could have avoided the headsman if only because of Elayne's and Nynaeve's intervention. He may not have gotten raped, but he was at the very least coerced very strongly. Which is so much better.

 

Eh...he was a willing participate IMO after she had to force him into it. It certainly was rape on her part if this event were taken to the police, but the reality is that he could have stopped it if he had really wanted to. I think this much is implied throughout the encounters, especially considering this series is a PG series.

[Suttree]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to. Hell, he could have kick her ass and tied her up himself anytime he wanted to. It was just awkward for him that he was not the one doing the chasing. The moment he actually wanted to leave he had no problem leaving.

 

Yes, he could have kicked her ass, if he had been willing to risk getting thrown into prison or out of town, I think he probably could have avoided the headsman if only because of Elayne's and Nynaeve's intervention. He may not have gotten raped, but he was at the very least coerced very strongly. Which is so much better.

 

Eh...he was a willing participate IMO after she had to force him into it. It certainly was rape on her part if this event were taken to the police, but the reality is that he could have stopped it if he had really wanted to. I think this much is implied throughout the encounters, especially considering this series is a PG series.

 

RJ called it rape as well...

[MarkDiLillo]

well then

[Maleshub]

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to.

 

Remembering Mat's time in the Tarasin Palace, he could have left with Elayne and Nynaeve since Tylin could not force a "diplomatic incident" with Andor over a "pretty." But after the wall fell on Mat and he was forced to stay in the Tarasin palace, he was under the impression that Tylin had become too possessive. Even Beslan, and the rest of Ebou Dar, Setalle included, agree that what Tylin was doing was indeed beyond "standard pretty behavior." Mat's escape plan tells us that because he planned it without Tylin's knowledge. If he knew that she'd let him go whenever he wanted, the escape plan would have been different.

[thisguy]

RJ enjoyed putting women in what are considered more masculine roles.

[TootThatHorn]

I only just found the excerpt today, and found it to be very enjoyable. I am very grateful for Brandon Sanderson for finishing the series off as I will have been reading it for twenty years come release day, and it means an awful lot to me and to many of you lot on here. I don't mind that Mr Sanderson doesn't write Mat in a way expect and I take many of your concerns on board. But I am just glad the series will be finished and I'll be getting my sweaty mits on it in January.

 

The only problem I have with Mat in this excerpt is brushing off with the "incidents" with Tylin. I'm clearly not a psychologist, but perhaps he is in denial that he was raped by her? It may seem to be a logical reaction at least to someone with Mat's attitude towards women, at least, but I'd prefer if he pondered on it a bit more; Perhaps with a change of subject in his thoughts so we can tell he is conflicted.

 

Still I'm over joyed that the series is nearing completion, and I can't wait until January! Bravo Brandon.

 

Dude...he wasnt raped by her. He could have left anytime he wanted to.

 

Except when she held a knife to his throat for trying...

 

It was too much. The woman hounded him, tried to starve him; now she locked them in together like... like he did not know what. Lambkin! Those bloody dice were bouncing around in his skull. Besides, he had important business to see to. The dice had never had anything to do with finding something, but... He reached her in two long strides, seized her arm, and began fumbling in her belt for the keys. "I don’t have bloody time for -" His breath froze as the sharp point of her dagger beneath his chin shut his mouth and drove him right up onto his toes.

 

"Remove your hand," she said coldly. He managed to look down his nose at her face. She was not smiling now. He let go of her arm carefully. She did not lessen the pressure of her blade, though. She shook her head. "Tsk, tsk. I do try to make allowances for you being an outlander, gosling, but since you wish to play roughly... Hands at your sides. Move." The knifepoint gave a direction. He shuffled backward on tiptoe rather than have his neck sliced.

 

"What are you going to do?" he mumbled through his teeth. A stretched neck put a strain in his voice. A stretched neck among other things. "Well?" He could try grabbing her wrist; he was quick with his hands. "What are you going to do?" Quick enough, with the knife already at his throat? That was the question. That, and the one he asked her. If she intended to kill him, a shove of her wrist right there would drive the dagger straight up into his brain. "Will you answer me!" That was not panic in his voice. He was not in a panic...

 

OK I guess that qualifies as rape from her perspective. I am still of the opinion though that he could have stopped that if he had really wanted to. As soon as he found out what was going on I am sure he lost his will to resist despite the tense moments there. I mean this is a guy who can best the Gholam in hand to hand combat...a little woman with a knife is not going to give him much trouble as soon as she took it away from his throat for even a moment.

 

It took the rapist's perspective for you to see it as rape? Hmm...

[Maleshub]

RJ enjoyed putting women in what are considered more masculine roles.

 

WoT is more matriarchal than patriarchal.

[Mario Cole]

Holy Christ how many dead horses are getting beaten in this thread?

[MyKillK]

80 POVs in a single chapter! Did I really read that right?

 

What's below is from BS's Q and A at Dragoncon...

 

"The discussion of multiple viewpoints prompted one audience member to ask about the growing amount of secondary viewpoints in the series itself, most notably in the prologues. Brandon pointed that Jordan himself began that trend in the prologues; “Embers Falling on Dry Grass” being among Sanderson's favorite uses of that device, and revealed that readers should expect even more in the final volume.

 

How many more?

 

Upwards of 80. In a single chapter. That's around 70,000 words and which takes place near the end of A Memory of Light. (We're very curious to see if that chapter is titled “Tarmon Gai'don.”)"

 

Not good news in my opinion. I felt like the incessant changing of POVs really screwed up ToM (in addition to the unncessary amount of time devoted to Perrin's plot line). It really made the book feel fragmented and scatter brained. It's hard to follow plot lines when they are broken up into 30 different pieces and scattered throughout the book.

[Pilz]

The cleansing (WH, I think) had about 20 POVs. I think it helps define the significance and pace of a scene to have many short POVs. It means much action and less reflection and pondering. I was expecting an anti-climatic TG, so this is actually good news to me.

[Vardar]

Took some time to reflect, and a few things do bother me.

 

Petra as a warrior. Really? What happened to the Inn they wanted to establish. I didn't know the Seanchan conscipted. There better be a story behind that.

 

How the heck did Jame "see" Mat's hidden knives. Mat is pretty pro at hiding knives, second to none, except maybe Thom. I would hope someone of his caliber doesn't walk differently while he's wearing them at this point, the odds of Jame noticing them are pretty slim, especially the ones he mentioned.

 

And lastly, the one that really bothered me: They made specific mention of how long it takes to fight a duel nowadays, then Jame goes on to say he made sure one assassin died in the dueling grounds. How bloody long was that assassin in the city that he had time to petition and go through all the loopholes to get a legal duel? If he was that concerned about his Empress's safety, would he really worry about the law while giving the guy time to get away?

[he who comes with a bong]

Took some time to reflect, and a few things do bother me.

 

Petra as a warrior. Really? What happened to the Inn they wanted to establish. I didn't know the Seanchan conscipted. There better be a story behind that.

 

How the heck did Jame "see" Mat's hidden knives. Mat is pretty pro at hiding knives, second to none, except maybe Thom. I would hope someone of his caliber doesn't walk differently while he's wearing them at this point, the odds of Jame noticing them are pretty slim, especially the ones he mentioned.

 

And lastly, the one that really bothered me: They made specific mention of how long it takes to fight a duel nowadays, then Jame goes on to say he made sure one assassin died in the dueling grounds. How bloody long was that assassin in the city that he had time to petition and go through all the loopholes to get a legal duel? If he was that concerned about his Empress's safety, would he really worry about the law while giving the guy time to get away?

 

There is so many different things that we all have found that could be done better and that are just off. Maybee just maybee that they did this on purpose before the final editing is done, to make us all think that this book is goign to be slightly shitty. Then when it comes out it will all be changed for the better. It would be very very nice to have that happen.It will be a huge disapointment if this last and final book doesnt come off as a grand final book, considering ive been reading it since i was in 9th grade, it has taken up alot of my life for reading. Even my wife has said to me many times YOU ARE READING IT AGAIN whats this like your 50th time.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Took some time to reflect, and a few things do bother me.

 

Petra as a warrior. Really? What happened to the Inn they wanted to establish. I didn't know the Seanchan conscipted. There better be a story behind that.

 

How the heck did Jame "see" Mat's hidden knives. Mat is pretty pro at hiding knives, second to none, except maybe Thom. I would hope someone of his caliber doesn't walk differently while he's wearing them at this point, the odds of Jame noticing them are pretty slim, especially the ones he mentioned.

 

And lastly, the one that really bothered me: They made specific mention of how long it takes to fight a duel nowadays, then Jame goes on to say he made sure one assassin died in the dueling grounds. How bloody long was that assassin in the city that he had time to petition and go through all the loopholes to get a legal duel? If he was that concerned about his Empress's safety, would he really worry about the law while giving the guy time to get away?

 

There is so many different things that we all have found that could be done better and that are just off. Maybee just maybee that they did this on purpose before the final editing is done, to make us all think that this book is goign to be slightly shitty. Then when it comes out it will all be changed for the better. It would be very very nice to have that happen.It will be a huge disapointment if this last and final book doesnt come off as a grand final book, considering ive been reading it since i was in 9th grade, it has taken up alot of my life for reading. Even my wife has said to me many times YOU ARE READING IT AGAIN whats this like your 50th time.

I get that from my wife too:)