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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Aeil Leaving With the Ogier


Morsker
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I randomly thought of this in another thread, and it would actually solve a lot of problems:

  1. Rand can leave with them, which gives him a way to leave the world without dying a second time.
  2. We get an explanation for why there are no Aeil in 2012, that doesn't require them to die off. (From a storytelling perspective, why should we care about subverting Aviendha's viewing if the Aeil are doomed anyway?)
  3. We get an explanation for how the Aeil showed up in the AoL, that doesn't require a eugenics movement run by pacifists obcessed with red hair.
  4. It helps explain where they develop their talent for Seed Singing, if they spent many Ages in the Ogier world.

So Aviendha's version wasn't just showing that Rand makes a mistake with the Aeil. It's showing that the Pattern has no place for Aeil in this world in the Fourth Age. It's not the Pattern's style to wipe out an entire people because of one decision. The Pattern works in the reverse of that, and manipulates events to create cultures when it's time for them, and to get rid of them when their time is past. (It created Manetheran in order to create the Two Rivers, in order to raise Rand.)

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I don't think the Aiel leave, but I kinda suspect the main guys soon after will leave witht he ogier like happens with the main guys and elves in lotr :P since the wheel of time so parallelled TLoTR and if it remained in 3 books itprobably would have been so close it wont have been funny.

Edited by rand4747
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The Wheel of time is not really paralleled to LoTR , Tolkien put the standard of heroic fantasy so it is hard not to make something who resemble it in a way .

 

First we don't know what Aviendha really saw , perhaps was it a warning from the Wheel to Aviendha , perhaps it is something else entirely , the Aiel never showed up anywhere , they are part of humanity .

We don't even know if the Aiel are not a constant in the pattern , a dedicated people who fight against evil and it's incarnation when or if it return .

The Ogier might leave to another world but I don't think it would be anytime in Amol

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I never read LotR, but WoT already has the end of an Age, and the need for the Ogier to leave sooner or later. Adding the Aeil to it isn't bringing it any closer to a Tolkein parallel than it was already.

 

I think it's a big difference that in WoT the Ages will come again, so there isn't a sense of loss. And with the Aeil, I actually think it would be a happy ending, because it means the Aeil get to survive through all seven Ages and enjoy a reward for all their service and hardship.

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The Wheel of time is not really paralleled to LoTR , Tolkien put the standard of heroic fantasy so it is hard not to make something who resemble it in a way .

 

First we don't know what Aviendha really saw , perhaps was it a warning from the Wheel to Aviendha , perhaps it is something else entirely , the Aiel never showed up anywhere , they are part of humanity .

We don't even know if the Aiel are not a constant in the pattern , a dedicated people who fight against evil and it's incarnation when or if it return .

The Ogier might leave to another world but I don't think it would be anytime in Amol

 

I have to disagree with your 'uncomparison' to LotR. Very early on in the series there are a remarkable number of parallels directly with LotR. Thankfully the series grew far beyond those. Fain may still play a Gollum-like role in the end, though.

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The Wheel of time is not really paralleled to LoTR , Tolkien put the standard of heroic fantasy so it is hard not to make something who resemble it in a way .

 

First we don't know what Aviendha really saw , perhaps was it a warning from the Wheel to Aviendha , perhaps it is something else entirely , the Aiel never showed up anywhere , they are part of humanity .

We don't even know if the Aiel are not a constant in the pattern , a dedicated people who fight against evil and it's incarnation when or if it return .

The Ogier might leave to another world but I don't think it would be anytime in Amol

 

I have to disagree with your 'uncomparison' to LotR. Very early on in the series there are a remarkable number of parallels directly with LotR. Thankfully the series grew far beyond those. Fain may still play a Gollum-like role in the end, though.

 

RJ said he crafted the first 60 or so pages so they had the familiar Tolkien feel, then expanded.

 

I think that Norlion is correct in general, if you take the series as a whole, spanning 14 books, WoT does not parallel LotR. It has homages and that, but very little is actually paralleled in the overall sense apart from the early similarity.

 

Also Fain =/ gollum in the end thankfully, that was a big concern for me.

 

INTERVIEW: Nov 8th, 2010

TOM Signing Report - Sarayne (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

Is Padan Fain going to turn out like Gollum?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

No, he is not going to be like that. I am aware of the comparisons, and I am trying to distance him from that. The scene in Towers of Midnight with Padan Fainwas originally written differently, and when I submitted it to Harriet she said, "Oh no, he's much crazier than that!" So I changed it accordingly.

 

Edit:

 

Forgot to actually post in regards to the direct topic :tongue:

 

I don't think that the Book of Translation will be used in any way. I think the plot regarding this is more preventing the Ogier from leaving, than having certain people leave.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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Ogier wanna go, loial isn't asking them to stay but to delay departure until after they help the humans

 

The Ogier as a whole do not necessarily want to go. It seems, culturally, they know at some point the BoT will be opended and they will depart this world. Some Ogier, like Loial, disagree with the idea that the current state of the world indicates the BoT should be opened ASAP and thus the GS and discussion on the topic. Barid has it right IMO, no BoT opening in AMoL.

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I've wondered since I read about it why there even exists a Book of Translation to move the Ogier into the next age or two ages ahead or whatever it does. Loial's speech, while simple, is very moving and in it he states that when their axes have always grown long handles when there is need to oppose the Shadow, which to me means that at least part of the purpose of the Ogier is to oppose the Shadow, and probably also to remember when human memories grow dim. Maybe they move forward in ages where the One Power is no longer available? That might make sense, as without the One Power humans do not have the ability (as far as we can tell anyway) to destroy the Pattern and thus do not have the ability to contact the Dark One. So, say the ability to channel is lost at the end of the Sixth Age and the Ogier jump ahead into the First Age (or maybe even the Second) to be there when next mankind is to face the Dark One?

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Why would the Aiel leave? They are humans and they live in the world of humans. And none of them would even consider running away from the world in order to escape a bad future.

Besides the Jenn didn't built Rhuidean so it could be used for a year. Rhuidean will be the future capital of the Aiel nation.

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I randomly thought of this in another thread, and it would actually solve a lot of problems:

  1. Rand can leave with them, which gives him a way to leave the world without dying a second time.
  2. We get an explanation for why there are no Aeil in 2012, that doesn't require them to die off. (From a storytelling perspective, why should we care about subverting Aviendha's viewing if the Aeil are doomed anyway?)
  3. We get an explanation for how the Aeil showed up in the AoL, that doesn't require a eugenics movement run by pacifists obcessed with red hair.
  4. It helps explain where they develop their talent for Seed Singing, if they spent many Ages in the Ogier world.

So Aviendha's version wasn't just showing that Rand makes a mistake with the Aeil. It's showing that the Pattern has no place for Aeil in this world in the Fourth Age. It's not the Pattern's style to wipe out an entire people because of one decision. The Pattern works in the reverse of that, and manipulates events to create cultures when it's time for them, and to get rid of them when their time is past. (It created Manetheran in order to create the Two Rivers, in order to raise Rand.)

That is some good thinking, seed singing learned on the Ogier world, though I do not think that they will leave. They are destined to have conflict with the Seanchan in some form or another.

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