Armstrong

[ironcross]

Guilty or is thia just yet amorher instance od the media trying to destroy an ameeican hearo

[Thorum]

Both.

 

Until a couple of years ago, everyone cheated. Including Armstrong.

 

That doesn't make his prestation any less, however, since his oponents used the same weapons (read: pharmaceuticals), and he still beat them.

[SBoydW]

I haven't been following this all that close... but Has Armstrong ever tested positive for doping?

[Barmacral]

I haven't been following this all that close... but Has Armstrong ever tested positive for doping?

 

He says no, the USADA says they have blood tests that prove otherwise. I'm inclined to side with Armstrong on this one since the USADA has never actually shown these tests. Either way it is sketchy no matter who is wrong.

[MasterAblar]

I haven't been following this all that close... but Has Armstrong ever tested positive for doping?

 

He says no, the USADA says they have blood tests that prove otherwise. I'm inclined to side with Armstrong on this one since the USADA has never actually shown these tests. Either way it is sketchy no matter who is wrong.

 

They would have had to if Armstrong had contested.

[SinisterDeath]

Doesn't everyone have trace amounts of animal growth hormones from the milk & meat we eat? (An athelete even more so? since they really have to focus on their protein intake?)

 

Also if by doping you mean..Marijauna... How is that a Performance enchancing drug?

Thats kinda like Robin Williams bit..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO281JqXQdc

[SBoydW]

Doping, when it come to cycling, usually refers to the use of EPO which allows your red blood cells to carry more oxygen.

[John E. Kelley]

ESPN said yesterday that he had taken over five hundred tests and never tested positive for a single one. That every question regarding his cleanliness was due to his fellow cyclists saying that they saw him doping. You know, the fellow cyclists whose ass he had kicked for a decade. There's no reason to dispute the word of them is there?

[Haxorsist]

Several cyclists that were on his team in US Postal have said they saw him use doping. George Hincapie, who was on Armstrong's team for all of his seven TdF wins, testified that he and Armstrong took EPO together. As far as I know, Hincapie never tested positive for doping. Tyler Hamilton testified to the same thing. So did Floyd Landis. Hamilton and Landis both tested positive for doping, and probably aren't the most credible witnesses. I don't see why Hincapie would lie, though.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Armstrong used EPO or some other performance enhancing drug. It was widespread in the Tour and especially in US Postal. Armstrong was a client of Michele Ferrari, who has recieved a lifetime ban for assisting in doping. Also, the guys Armstrong beat with several minutes in the general classification of TdF have tested positive or admitted to doping (eg. Ullrich, Moreau, Zuller).

 

But like Thorum said, since everybody was on performance enhancing drugs, his achievments are still impressive.

[Thorum]

And the tests can easily be avoided by smart riders. Which Armstrong definitely was/is.

 

As an example of everyone being on the same level: people up until the first not doped:

http://http://www.nieuwsblad.be/extra/dopingzondaars

[MasterAblar]

At this point, I think Armstrong is just trying to salvage his legacy. He knows he can't win this fight, and if there was any chance that he could, he would continue. Cheater or not, he was never the type to just give up. He wants there to always be a doubt on the whole matter, that USADA's evidence, whatever it consists of, although it apparently includes blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that are "fully consistent" with blood doping, is never released, so that those who believe in him can continue to say he was wronged. I don't think it's that simple though. I don't think the USADA itself can take away his titles. I believe the UCI has to do that, and they've been fighting for jurisdiction over the case with USADA. So yeah it's kind of complex and rather over my head, but it seems fairly inevitable that Armstrong is going to lose his titles, maybe even his bronze medal from the 2000 Olympics. In other news the Lance Armstrong Foundation recieved $78,000 in donations friday, about 25 times more than the usual amount.

[peacesells]

My personal opinion is that Armstrong is a class A ass. I also think it's been a witch hunt. A bunch people who Armstrong stepped all over are seeking revenge. It blows my mind that a US organization is trying to discredit our own greatest cyclist ever.

[peacesells]

At this point, I think Armstrong is just trying to salvage his legacy. He knows he can't win this fight, and if there was any chance that he could, he would continue. Cheater or not, he was never the type to just give up. He wants there to always be a doubt on the whole matter, that USADA's evidence, whatever it consists of, although it apparently includes blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that are "fully consistent" with blood doping, is never released, so that those who believe in him can continue to say he was wronged. I don't think it's that simple though. I don't think the USADA itself can take away his titles. I believe the UCI has to do that, and they've been fighting for jurisdiction over the case with USADA. So yeah it's kind of complex and rather over my head, but it seems fairly inevitable that Armstrong is going to lose his titles, maybe even his bronze medal from the 2000 Olympics. In other news the Lance Armstrong Foundation recieved $78,000 in donations friday, about 25 times more than the usual amount.

 

The cost to continue fighting these attacks have become cost prohibitive. One organization after another has attacked him. He's had to hire expensive representation each time. How long would you continue to spend money doing this?

[SinisterDeath]

At this point, I think Armstrong is just trying to salvage his legacy. He knows he can't win this fight, and if there was any chance that he could, he would continue. Cheater or not, he was never the type to just give up. He wants there to always be a doubt on the whole matter, that USADA's evidence, whatever it consists of, although it apparently includes blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that are "fully consistent" with blood doping, is never released, so that those who believe in him can continue to say he was wronged. I don't think it's that simple though. I don't think the USADA itself can take away his titles. I believe the UCI has to do that, and they've been fighting for jurisdiction over the case with USADA. So yeah it's kind of complex and rather over my head, but it seems fairly inevitable that Armstrong is going to lose his titles, maybe even his bronze medal from the 2000 Olympics. In other news the Lance Armstrong Foundation recieved $78,000 in donations friday, about 25 times more than the usual amount.

 

The cost to continue fighting these attacks have become cost prohibitive. One organization after another has attacked him. He's had to hire expensive representation each time. How long would you continue to spend money doing this?

 

Protecting your legacy is something people would go broke fighting for.

[peacesells]

I wouldnt. I'm self confident enough I dont needs the accolades of others. I'm sure he is too.

[peacesells]

Plus I'm sure he is worn down by 10!years of harrassment.

[SinisterDeath]

I wouldnt. I'm self confident enough I dont needs the accolades of others. I'm sure he is too.

 

I don't quite think he would be willing to let it go.

I can't even really think of a good way to compare it to something else..

But imagine if someone tried to say that Neil Armstrong didn't land on the moon? Wouldn't that be a legacy worth fighting for? (Obviously I know they aren't the same person)

 

If he had no kids, leaving his accomplishments behind in the books for future people to remember him by, could be very important thing.

[peacesells]

Many people have stated that lol.

 

Anyway, just my opinion. I think he is tired of the fight. I mean France did a huge thing against him and it failed. Isn't it strange that USada is out of nowhere doing this? Its no secret that alot of people hate the guy. I fully believe he is an arrogant ass. But I don't think he cheated.

 

If you look back to his young history all the way back to high school he's always been a phenom. He's a mutant. Just built to do those things.

[SinisterDeath]

way I see it, its good for him if he's goign to retire, to try and keep his record intact, at least then, when the next newbie comes in and beats his record, it won't be, because they took away the old ones.

[SinisterDeath]

Besides, he's an american that stomped the french so hard it hurts. Whats not to love about his records?

[Justen Diablos]

The circumstantial evidence against Lance Armstrong is a mountain that makes OJ Simpson look innocent. hmmmm. There's almost universal agreement in the Cycling world that he cheated, although there's also agreement that everyone else during that time did as well. I'm not a fan of taking away his titles simply because it's too late. It's like Barry Bonds and his HR's. Just put an asterisk beside his name and go on with business as usual. His reputation is already tarnished in the Cycling world, let his example to Americans and his charity work go forth without this witch hunt. That way we can focus on the now, which includes Contador's brilliant run at the Vuelta. Which was awesome.

 

Or if we wanted to stay in the muck we could talk about how Bradley Wiggens and the Sky train remind us a little bit of those good ol' US Postal days. For the record, their team's across the board unbelievable improvement is just because they trained harder than everyone else. ;)

[elric]

personally i think he hadnt cheated , untill i c a positive blood test.

 

the main factor for me is the cancer

Tour De France is EXTREMLY HARD race where u need to be strong both phisically and MENTALY.

Lance win streak started AFTER he beat cancer by force of will.

i think that ordeal tempered him into the champion he become , i believe his edge was that he become mentally stronger then the rest

[Thorum]

personally i think he hadnt cheated , untill i c a positive blood test.

 

the main factor for me is the cancer

Tour De France is EXTREMLY HARD race where u need to be strong both phisically and MENTALY.

Lance win streak started AFTER he beat cancer by force of will.

i think that ordeal tempered him into the champion he become , i believe his edge was that he become mentally stronger then the rest

 

So, you think he won 7 times from people that were doped without taking doping himself because of a mental edge from surviving cancer?

 

Or do I misinterpret your post (probably)?

[ironcross]

i think it had just a little bit to do with the fact that he drove himself to train three times as hard as his cheating competitors

[Mulk]

Lance's legacy now has mostly to do with his cancer charity work - people will always love him for putting a face to cancer survival and bringing attention and funding to cancer research, and regardless of whether he was an ass to other cyclists and the media or not (and he was) the number of stories in how he has personally interacted with those going through intensive cancer treatments and treated them with dignity and respect are probably far more numerous, if not as widely publicized. So, regardless of the final outcome of all of this, he is a real hero to the cancer community. I think at this point that means more to him than the cycling stuff. And let's face it, people have pretty much made up their mind on where they stand with him.