What role will Padan Fain play in AMOL

[Valley of Death]

How angry will everyone be if he killed Rand?

 

I think he has been in too many books to have a small role. I think he will do something pretty big. I do not want him to be the one to kill Rand. He will do something really sneaky I think. Will someone jump in front of Rand while he tries to stab him? Will Rand kill him?

 

Honestly I have no idea what Padan Fain can do, but I really hope it doesn't hurt the book.

[Elan Tedronai]

fain will likely end up killing one of the chosen in shayol ghul

[skyfirex]

What if...Mexican standoff: Rand, Fain, Moridin?

[rand4747]

Gholum, I mean Padan Fain will fall into the volcano and in that act helps save the world :P

[spoke]

he will be the buffer to touch the dark one. That way Rand can seal the bore without another taint.

[Pinzarn]

he will be the buffer to touch the dark one. That way Rand can seal the bore without another taint.

 

I keep referring to Fain as the welding rod that will be used to seal the bore. I think the wounds in Rand's side have been forshadowing this for a while. Ever since Flynn?? said that it looked like the two wounds were keep each other at bay.

[OptimusPrime]

he will be the buffer to touch the dark one. That way Rand can seal the bore without another taint.

 

Nah. Thats what Callandor was built for.

[FarShainMael]

Gholum, I mean Padan Fain will fall into the volcano and in that act helps save the world :P

 

I don't want to worry you, but here are some of the sketches for the cover artwork:

 

http://www.tor.com/b...-light-revealed

 

Scroll down to the bit about Carlsbad Caverns..

[rand4747]

Gholum, I mean Padan Fain will fall into the volcano and in that act helps save the world :P

 

I don't want to worry you, but here are some of the sketches for the cover artwork:

 

http://www.tor.com/b...-light-revealed

 

Scroll down to the bit about Carlsbad Caverns..

 

I know seen it :P

 

--------------------

 

The thing about using the Shadar Logoth vs dark one thing is its been done before at the cleansing. So that bit of foreshadowing witht he wounds has been used before.

[Kestrel]

he will be the buffer to touch the dark one. That way Rand can seal the bore without another taint.

 

I keep referring to Fain as the welding rod that will be used to seal the bore. I think the wounds in Rand's side have been forshadowing this for a while. Ever since Flynn?? said that it looked like the two wounds were keep each other at bay.

Fain has a hard time deciding which he hates worse - Rand or the Dark Lord.

 

Rand will be fighting off Fain while he breaks the rest of the seals. But as soon as the bore is wide open he will knock Fain off balance and toss him in. Faced with the only other enemy he truly despises, Fain will keep the Dark Lord busy while Rand repairs the bore.

 

That's my take on it, for what it's worth. When the book finally comes out in January I'm going to have to read the last chapter first. I want to find out who's right and who's wrong, then I can settle down and enjoy seeing the story unfold.

[rand4747]

probably not a good idea really. Be better to read front to back.

[Marshall Bocell]

If I were to write it I would have Fain actually kill the dark lord and take his place and then it will be a battle between Rand and Fain in which Fain gets sealed into the prison. In that case, everything is out the window, the whole wheel shutters and is on the brink. Rand also must use the true power to fight Fain and that cuts everyone off from the one power, creating a completely new age never before seen.

[MountaineerWV]

Fain/Mashadar's essence, not an actual physical form, will be a buffer - the foreshadowing is obvious.

 

I don't prescribe to Fain fighting the Dark One - nor that the Dark One will have a human like form. Fain would be a small candle to the Dark One's....star sized ball of fire.

[jedman67]

the mashadar theory is suggesting that the essence of mashadar, in the form of padan fain (who i never thought of as gollum before reading this!) would absorb any taint or counterstroke against rand and his followers and prevent such a counterstroke from breaking the world again.

 

a few points to ponder: Nynavae theorizes that the taint is a form of the DO's compulsion, slowly driving men who could channel insane. Proof to this are the actions of Ishmael at the start of EotW: he Heals LTT's madness right away with the TP - laying a counterweave against the Compulsion? - and bringing him restored sanity and clarity. the taint is a distillation of the DO's essence, covering the vastness of saidin like an oil slick. Or a little bit of the True Power mixed in with the OP?

 

LT tells rand that something needs to touch the DO himself, in order to 'bridge the gap'. Rand needs saidar mixed with saidin to fully reseal the bore, he needs a tremendous amount of Power - at the original sealing, we had LTT himself cast the final weaves to create the seals, with only the aid of whatever angreal or sa'angreal he may have possesed (histories dont mention this at all) and his hundred companions to be his bodyguards, presumably as well as to assist in crafting the seals. a single directed blast of saidin from one person connecting the bore, the pattern and the DO was unable to 'buffer' against a foreign Power partially interrupting the flows, leaving LTT and all the male Aeis Sedai vulnerable to his counterstroke. the DO is powerful, but he cant leave the bore, and likely never will be to without destroying the pattern itself - the Bore is outside the pattern, a different universe with different rules, but if the prison remains fully open, the DO will be able to destroy the pattern, which is his goal: destroy creation and all of existence.

 

 

perhaps a circle, which is exponentially stronger than an individual channeler, would be better able to resist the counterstroke, or prevent the taint from spreading. a circle with a sa'angreal is much stronger still.

I still cant see how fain/mordeth plays into this, other than being a 'buffer' to absorb the counterstroke - all i can see is that the seal itself still needs to touch the dark one, which means that the OP must touch the TP to work.

[Duskfire]

Could Fain be the buffer against the DO? If we go by RJ Fain is unique to this turning of the Wheel; so therefore, any previous TG's the Dragon Soul would have needed to do something else to create that buffer. Fain has a different role to play I would say, although I have no idea what. The biffer in this case would likely be the TP.

[rand4747]

it was said if he did basiucally what he did but with female channelers saidar would have been tainted to, so you cant do what was done before without the taint being put on the source again. New seals also wont work any more, the dark one has expanded the bore so far that the seals likely will be weakened in a matter of no time and maybe wont even be able to be placed.

[Treebeard]

If I were to write it I would have Fain actually kill the dark lord and take his place and then it will be a battle between Rand and Fain in which Fain gets sealed into the prison. In that case, everything is out the window, the whole wheel shutters and is on the brink. Rand also must use the true power to fight Fain and that cuts everyone off from the one power, creating a completely new age never before seen.

And thereby slaughtering the whole WT, no i don't think so

[mydnyte]

he saves Rand's life (because only he can kill Rand)

[flash_fire]

Moridin possesses Rand in some sense, and Fain says "RAND IS MINE!" So, Fain gets angry and kills Moridin.

[TootThatHorn]

ive seen a lot about fain being a buffer or whatever for the dark one's prison but i havent seen anything yet (unless i missed it) about fain and SH perhaps melding together, and becoming some kind of combination of nasty. if SH is a shadow or projection of the GLotD would he recognize fain? what would happen if they fought? and i don't buy that fain could just touch him and he dies. something interesting could happen, what if, although a very long shot, rand has broken the seals and fain and SH square off, combine, and then the dark lord gets a get out of jail free card, takes on a physical form and thats how rand fights him? probably the longest shot ive ever speculated but its all theories for now lol

[Durinax]

ive seen a lot about fain being a buffer or whatever for the dark one's prison but i havent seen anything yet (unless i missed it) about fain and SH perhaps melding together, and becoming some kind of combination of nasty. if SH is a shadow or projection of the GLotD would he recognize fain? what would happen if they fought? and i don't buy that fain could just touch him and he dies. something interesting could happen, what if, although a very long shot, rand has broken the seals and fain and SH square off, combine, and then the dark lord gets a get out of jail free card, takes on a physical form and thats how rand fights him? probably the longest shot ive ever speculated but its all theories for now lol

it is possible because fain is a hybred of SL evil and DO evil. so the further melding with more DO evil is possible, if very improbable

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

Sealing fain inside the bore, much like the forsaken were sealed inside last time, would prevent the DO from being able to touch the world ever again, as the two evils would counter each other, just like Rand's twin wounds. In effect, each evil would contain the other in an eternal stalemate.... I think Fain is likely to kick some serious ass before he gets locked up though. Probbly Shaidar Haran, and he might even be the one to get Rand since someone is gonna kill him so he can cone back and save the day... I have high hopes for Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith in this book... He has been growing stronger by leaps and bounds but hasnt really done much i expect him to seriously rock out in this book. Supposedly he is something new that never happened in the other turnings of the wheel so imo he will be the thing that tips the scales one way or the other toward breaking the cycle.

[snooze1128]

Sealing fain inside the bore, much like the forsaken were sealed inside last time, would prevent the DO from being able to touch the world ever again, as the two evils would counter each other, just like Rand's twin wounds. In effect, each evil would contain the other in an eternal stalemate.... I think Fain is likely to kick some serious ass before he gets locked up though. Probbly Shaidar Haran, and he might even be the one to get Rand since someone is gonna kill him so he can cone back and save the day... I have high hopes for Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith in this book... He has been growing stronger by leaps and bounds but hasnt really done much i expect him to seriously rock out in this book. Supposedly he is something new that never happened in the other turnings of the wheel so imo he will be the thing that tips the scales one way or the other toward breaking the cycle.

 

I agree in that I'm expecting fain to "seriously rock out" in the last book of the series. You've also brought up a point that's been frequently mentioned, and that is that Fain is essentially the Wild Card of the third age (we're in the third age, right?), as a character such has himself has never been present in the past. I think there are significant implications of this, as Fain is most certainly destined to play a major role in the sealing of the Bore. The problem I have here is this: I don't like the concept that the only way to seal the DO off from the world (without incurring a taint) is to leverage a secondary evil such as Fain. Yet we have seen a prominant theme play out through the series: there is an eternal balance between Good & Evil that maintains a universal balance. Should Fain tip the balance in such a way that it results in the DO being sealed away, then I would expect him to affect the Light (aka. the good guys) in an equally malevolent manner.

 

One more random thought: If Rand uses the True Power to reseal the DO, then neither the Saidin, nor Sadir, would become tainted, right? I'm guessing I'm forgetting and/or missing something, because this seems like way too simple of a solution and I'm sure this has been thoroughly discussed.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

Sealing fain inside the bore, much like the forsaken were sealed inside last time, would prevent the DO from being able to touch the world ever again, as the two evils would counter each other, just like Rand's twin wounds. In effect, each evil would contain the other in an eternal stalemate.... I think Fain is likely to kick some serious ass before he gets locked up though. Probbly Shaidar Haran, and he might even be the one to get Rand since someone is gonna kill him so he can cone back and save the day... I have high hopes for Fain/Mordeth/Ordeith in this book... He has been growing stronger by leaps and bounds but hasnt really done much i expect him to seriously rock out in this book. Supposedly he is something new that never happened in the other turnings of the wheel so imo he will be the thing that tips the scales one way or the other toward breaking the cycle.

 

I agree in that I'm expecting fain to "seriously rock out" in the last book of the series. You've also brought up a point that's been frequently mentioned, and that is that Fain is essentially the Wild Card of the third age (we're in the third age, right?), as a character such has himself has never been present in the past. I think there are significant implications of this, as Fain is most certainly destined to play a major role in the sealing of the Bore. The problem I have here is this: I don't like the concept that the only way to seal the DO off from the world is to leverage a secondary evil such as Fain. Yet we have seen a prominant theme play out through the series: there is an eternal balance between Good & Evil that maintains a universal balance. Should Fain tip the balance in such a way that it results in the DO being sealed away, then I would expect him affect the Light (aka. the good guys) in an equally malevolent manner. I hope this makes sense...

 

Agreed... A thought as to what the "balance" could be is that by permanantly sealing away the DO the pattern would no longer accept a "champion of the light" and stop spinning out Rands soul as there is nobody for him to fight anymore?

 

 

 

As for sealing him away with the True Power, this sounds impossible to me. The True Power, as i understand it, is almost like the DO's essence, an extention of his evil he allows people to tap into. If thats correct then a) it probably cant seal him away as its really him or at least the same evil or b) he simply wouldnt allow you to tap into it if you were trying to harm or seal him with it.... Some of tgat is educated guessing but thats how i see it

[Luckers]

I honestly cannot think what Fain would do... I'm a bit worried about him, tbh.