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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Surviving Stilling Long Term


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I wonder if Settale Anan might be an indication as to how a woman can overcome stilling without losing drive to live.

We know that Cady helped some false dragons live longer by trying to give them some new reason to live for. It worked only temporarily. But Anan actually survived for a long time and seems pretty in control of her life. As far as I know, she’s the only person we know that survived stilling and lived on. The difference between her and everyone else that I can see is that she had kids. So I wonder if having children helped her overcome stilling via finding a very good reason to live on. I know that it was mentioned about AS having children to increase number of girls born with the spark, but do we actually see any AS in recent times (post AH) having children?

Anyways, something to think about. Any thoughts?

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People stilled lose the desire to live. That's why they die. So if any woman or man could find something to fill that void, they could easily survive. Stilled AS usually die because they just don't try. They go somplace secluded and pretty much wait for death. Setalle found a husband and had children, she has a new life with afamily to care for, and so she lives as good a life as any.

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I think its mostly them dying from addiction/withdrawal and depression. Think back to the EotW and Egwene (who had channeled like 5 minutes) entered her first stedding and instantly felt like she had "lost" something and even having never really used the one power didn't like the feeling.

 

Imagine that addiction fed for multipule decades and then cold turkey quitting. They basically go into sever mental withdrawls and depression (at losing the power and at losing being "important") on top of that the sisterhood that you have lived with for so long now instantly shuns you so you have no support to even get help from.

 

Mrs. Anan got over it by basically fighting through that and learning to live like a normal woman again. She found family, had an involving career and just re-learned that "normal" life isn't so bad.

 

This is pure speculation, but the amount of times in the books that people have spoken about the addictive side of the power it leads me to believe it actually is the worst drug in Randland and losing it instantly would put most of them in an early grave

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Good points but its still intetesting that no one else survived. I think that there are many stong willed AS who most likely tried but its only Anan who actually did it. And the only difference between her and eveyone else that i c is children.

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Actually, we have never seen someone stilled survive the stilling (except those that were healed). Mrs. Anan was burned out. The effect is different. A stilled AS can still sense the OP, but cannot touch it. Someone burned out cannot even sense it, but have memory of what it was like.

 

So for the stilled one, it is like having been a heroine addict, and being constantly aware of a shot of heroine sitting right next to you all the time, but unable to access it, having been forced to quit, but nor ever having really wanted to, and yet unable to get it while others taunt you about having and enjoying it constantly.

 

For the Burned out one, it is like having been a heroine addict, and then being placed in an environment where it is no longer available and all you have is the memory.

 

Who is going to be better off. Satelle Anan is the second case. So don't compare apples to oranges. She is the example of someone burned out surviving, but we have never seen someone stilled survive.

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Those women seclude themselves and are assumed to die, just as Setalle did. That doesn't mean they all die. The White Tower thinks Martine Janata is just as dead as the rest of them, but that doesn't make Martine dead. Few Women get stilled. The ones who do are often stilled because they're considered criminals, and they're kept around other Aes Sedai. It could be that the constant reminder of of what they lost, because they're surrounded by people who still have it, makes it harder to survive.

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Whole post

 

Yes, i agree with this, It is a different situation.

 

Burning out is different altogether.

 

While it has similar effects and reprecussions, it cannot really be used as an example.

 

Liviing after severing is basically impossible. Perhaps 10 years, at a stretch 15. But eventually it will overcome anyone, no matter what they have to live for, nothing can keep anyone going for that long. Suian has a hard time when she is living for the Last Battle and revenge against Elaida. And it is Suian. A child may keep you alive a few years, but it is simply not enough.

 

Eventually, you will get pulled down. It is much like a cancer. Depending on the persons will, it grows slow or fast, but it is terminal.

Edited by Barid Bel Medar
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(i do keep forgetting that Mrs. Anan was burned out instead of stilled...)

 

Though another thought that we have no evidence of is how old were the women that have been stilled? I mean they take for granted the fact they live 250-300 years but if its the power that causes the slowing then they could be simply dieing of being old as well. I know stilling apparently make them younger looking (or maybe only in the two most recent cases) but they still might be limited to a "normal" maximum life span. If someone is stilled who has already lived a century or so they might just have the ravages of time catching up with them.

 

Now saying all that, it seems in the story that all evidence points to them dieing because of the stilling, but since most women that are stilled are completely shunned afterwards there isnt much study of the condition

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I wonder if Settale Anan might be an indication as to how a woman can overcome stilling without losing drive to live.

We know that Cady helped some false dragons live longer by trying to give them some new reason to live for. It worked only temporarily. But Anan actually survived for a long time and seems pretty in control of her life. As far as I know, she’s the only person we know that survived stilling and lived on. The difference between her and everyone else that I can see is that she had kids. So I wonder if having children helped her overcome stilling via finding a very good reason to live on. I know that it was mentioned about AS having children to increase number of girls born with the spark, but do we actually see any AS in recent times (post AH) having children?

Anyways, something to think about. Any thoughts?

Setalla Anan wasn't stilled, she was burned out. By how interested she is in Ter'angreal she might be (forget the name) the AS who last studied Ter'angreal in the tower who was burned out (either her or the one who specifically studied dream Ter'angreal though there is no indication). By working with the Kin helping runaways and by running her inn and her husband and children, it is possible that the purspose she found later once her husband took her in and helped her might be what made the difference.

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The only way to survive long term is to find something that you can devote yourself to. Something that takes your willpower and focus away from the one power, and allows you to take your mind off of what has been lost. You could also survive if you went to a stedding, or to Far Madding, or some other place where the one power can not be sensed. Those places would work just as well for surviving severing as they did for allowing the male Aes Sedai to resist the taint.

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Burning out appear to be a far worse wound than stilling, as such we aren't sure if it can be healed.

 

I believe she survived because as she said her husband found her, pulled her out of the depression, and refused to let her go until she had her own purpose in life.

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Those places would work just as well for surviving severing as they did for allowing the male Aes Sedai to resist the taint.

 

Which is to say not that well? It was only a short term solution for them at best.

 

Burning out appear to be a far worse wound than stilling, as such we aren't sure if it can be healed.

 

I believe she survived because as she said her husband found her, pulled her out of the depression, and refused to let her go until she had her own purpose in life.

 

Before we knew stilling could be healed it might have actually been the opposite. As was pointed out not being able to sense the source at all is most likely one of the bigger factors in long term survival. On top of that though things like her husband and children obviously played a crucial role.

Edited by Suttree
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Well, by "worse wound" I meant in that it damaged you ability to channel in some profoundly worse way. I suppose the difference between getting an arm cut off and getting it vaporized. I agree that it was likely worse for those who were stilled since they were constantly aware of but unable to touch the source. I just wonder if burning out can be healed (Nyn will try if she gets a chance, and so far she hasn't proven wrong with her ability to heal anything she tries to (she hasn't tried to heal death)) and there is of course the Asha'man (I forgot his name) who independently figured out how to heal stilling, and he would likely be more appropriate to try.

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well stilling the thread (connection) is cut and the 2 ends are there burning out its all gone, so to heal you would have to recreate the connection, and if thats possible you can probably change how much power they get access to and possibly even give people who never could channel the ability.

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Stilling is like having your back broken. You still have your legs, they are only an inconvience and everything you do is harder because they are a dead weight you have to carry around. Burning out is like having your legs amuputated. You can't walk, but it is easier to get around because you don't have to worry about things that are attached to you getting in the way and you don't have the reminder that you used to be able to walk every time you look down. Then healing being stilled is someone being able to reconnect the spinal cord. Now the people with the broken backs can walk again, but the amputated people are SOL.

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As hard as stilling was for siuan, she arrived in salidar in better shape than setalle arrived in ebou dar (there is no doubt it was hard on siuan)

by all y'all's logic, it should have been the other way around.

maybe being able to still feel the presence, is better than being without even that, most women get upset when shielded, but are shocked when they can't even feel it anymore...

 

unrelated to discussion, I think stilling is cruel and unusual, if they are gonna suffer for years (or less) execution makes more sense.

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Part of it could also be subjective - stilled AS don't survive very long from an AS' perspective.

AS have very long lifespans - 200+ years seems normal and 300+ not unheard of.

Most WOTlanders have lifespans of 40-50 probably -we're talking about a society with lots of violence, food shortages and no antibiotics.

A stilled AS lifespan would go back to the non-channeler zone, even if they didn;t suffer depression / major trauma. This would seem a drastically shortened lifespan by AS standards.

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As hard as stilling was for siuan, she arrived in salidar in better shape than setalle arrived in ebou dar (there is no doubt it was hard on siuan)

by all y'all's logic, it should have been the other way around.

maybe being able to still feel the presence, is better than being without even that, most women get upset when shielded, but are shocked when they can't even feel it anymore...

 

unrelated to discussion, I think stilling is cruel and unusual, if they are gonna suffer for years (or less) execution makes more sense.

 

Don't forget, though that Suian was being driven by an amazingly strong desire to get revenge and save the world, otherwise she likely would have never managed to get to Salidar at all. Further she went there (almost) directly, on the other hand Setalle was, from what I recall, just wandering around and eventually ended up on Ebou dar.

 

I believe they usually execute them after stilling, they would have done so to Suian and Leane but they escaped first. (and the stilling makes sense for Darkfriends, if brought back the DO can't restore their ability to channel)

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Logain was reasonably fine during the white tower with nothing to occupy him and was good until just before they reached Salidar when he took a turn for the worse, then he got to be the centre of attention again and went back to being fine until he was healed. I doubt Suian and Leane really had enough time to spiral down the drain in the brief period they couldn't channel.

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I've long felt that the Towers attitude towards the Stilled and Gentled is responsible for a fair amount of the fatality rate--remove the stygma and fight the depression that the goes with the loss of the ability (and not in the half-hearted 'helping a disgusting known criminal' way they do with men) and I think they'll do much better.

 

The Wise Ones response to Irgain Sashelle and Ronaille, for instance.

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Kicking them out of the tower when they burn out probably kills alot of them. 50-100 years and suddenly everyone and everything you know is ripped away from you along with the source, not a good way to deal with depression.

They don't kick the out. They leave because they cannot stand being surrounded by that which they lost.

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Because women who can't channel are so common among AS right? Suian and Lelaine weren't AS any more which is why they could rechoose ajah's, seems pretty kicked out to me.

And what did you expect? By definition an AS is a channeler. If you can't channel you aren't AS, but that doesn't mean they kick you out of the Tower.

Edited by Naggash
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