Nynaeve, the most arrogant character in WoT?

[muddasssir]

I think part of Nyn's arrogence stems from she is trying to be AS (pre raising) and arrogence seems to be required if your AS

I think you have to go back further than that to find the root of it. It springs from her insecurity - that's why it has lessened over the series. The same with her bullying, and her block. Nynaeve's arrogance is a front. In Emond's Field, she had to shove the Women's Circle around because otherwise she would be ignored. She was afraid of the Power, and of surrendering, and had to use anger to overcome that fear. Nynaeve's character arc has been about her overcoming her insecurities and becoming a more confident person.

Mr Ares for once w are in perfect agreement.

[mj1475]

i've disliked her from the first scene she was in. the more i read the more i hated her. then the scene in the tavern with the malkier merchant, raising a army for lan.(she gained a lot of respect from me the day I read that) tears came to my eyes when i finished that scene, and i don't cry for many things. first time a book ever did that to me. I think she is getting a better handle on her arrogance, still needs more time IMO.

[RandA lThor]

I also completely disliked her from the beginning, but after tEotW I started liking her more book by book. Now, she is probably one of my favorite female characters as she has gone through an amazing journey and has conquered or subdued most of her faults.

[bludvein]

I completely agree with the above. For the first couple book I hated Nyneave, but she started to grow on me and by TOM she was one of my favorite female characters, second only to Min on my list.

 

Ive never really like Egwene, but she was at least tolerable in the early books. In contrast with Nyneave, she becomes so much worse after she becomes Aes Sedai its not even funny. One of the most arrogant and hypocritical characters in the books. The only ones more arrogant than her were Cadsuane and the villains.

[Wolf505]

I agree with those who say Nynaeve's arrogance stemmed purely from her insecurities. Nyn has slowly become my favorite female character in the series, especially in the last two or three books.

 

As for unbridled arrogance, I would have to go with Elaida. This woman is the very personafication of Aes Sedai arrogance. She is so convinced she's right about everything, she justifies her every action. Look at her reaction when Egwene finally tells her off about trying to kidnap Rand. How about the fact that she misreads her own Fortelling so badly about the royal house of Andor being the key to the last battle? When she had the Fortelling the succession was still up in the air, but instead of considering that maybe it could've referred to Luc or Tigraine (of course it was Tigraine, in fact) she goes off half cocked and attaches herself to Morgase, which ultimately ends badly. Of course it's a damn good thing she didn't manage to track down Tigraine or she could've screwed everything up royally (no pun intended). In the end, not only did Elaida's arrogance accomplish absolutely ZERO, she didn't learn a damn thing from it until she gets an a'dam slapped on her.

 

Next to Elaida, Nynaeve's arrogance is like a mud puddle compared to the Pacific. Nynaeve grew out of her arrogance on her own, Elaida learned nothing, and won't until some Sul'dam beats her day and night for a couple of years.

[damandred]

I think the reasons for Nynaeve' arrogance has already been touched on above. Being the youngest wisdom ever? Arrogance was maybe not only a way of coping with the stubborn Two Rivers elders but maybe the only way of coping. I have always regarded Nynaeve as my favorite female character, ok her bossiness was annoying at times, but, her motives for me have always been the most pure. Her reasons for being their has always been to help others dispite being wrong sometimes you always knew her heart was in the right place. For those who think this arrogance has lessened only towards the end of the series i'd like to point to two scenes in tEoTW, the first is when Rand stands up to her and she says he has grown. This is really big of her when you concider that only a few days before she was one of the leading authoraties in Emmonds Field and he little more than a boy. The second is near the end of the book in the Blight when she wears her heart on her sleave when talking to Lan. I think her story and watching her grow has for me been the most rewarding after Rand and Mat, and i think her the character BS has had the most success with.

I think the most arrogant for the girls is Sevanna ( it would of been Egwene but i am still unsure how to regard her incredible rise from simple village girl to OP and political powerhouse in two short years ) and for the boys Lord Toram Riatan ( i think thats the right spelling sorry if not )

[Dancing Shadow]

Elaida ordered a huge ass palace be built for herself. I think that says it all. She basically had no characteristic besides arrogance, unless you count being an idiot, but that's a symptom everyone shares at some point.

[avernite]

Ishy thought he was the Great Lord of the Dark at some point, or so say his fellow Forsaken. Imagine that, he's considered arrogant enough to think himself a god by the most arrogant bunch of people there is, basically.

[Knivy]

He was, however, driven bloody insane from TP use...

[RandA lThor]

I am curious about this, did it ever say with good proof that he actually thought he was the DO or was he just trying to do a very intricate play.

[Knivy]

I thought he knew he was nae'blis, but Ive been wrong before...

[Maleshub]

Ishy thought he was the Great Lord of the Dark at some point, or so say his fellow Forsaken. Imagine that, he's considered arrogant enough to think himself a god by the most arrogant bunch of people there is, basically.

He was, however, driven bloody insane from TP use...

I am curious about this, did it ever say with good proof that he actually thought he was the DO or was he just trying to do a very intricate play.

I thought he knew he was nae'blis, but Ive been wrong before...

 

Considering that he was the only one free to scheme and effect the world, no wonder his arrogance soared. He ruled the DO's kingdom on earth (The Blight) and unleashed destruction on the Light's land.

 

So, yeah .... The DO is sealed; the Chosen except him are imprisoned; and he's the god of the Dark for a few thousand years.

 

Rand was the DR for 3 years; and look what that did to his arrogance!

[jwood01]

Agree with most that Nyn's arrogance has subsided overtime and that she is now a wonderful character.

 

IMO Elaida wins purely from the difference between her arrogance and her actual ability. Arrogance can be tolerated if you get things done, but Elaida was compeltely manipulated by Mesaana and the black ajah.

 

Cads is arrogant, but her record speaks for itself.

 

LTT (Rand now i guess) is always described by the Foresaken as being arrogant, but could've just been their perception because he was top dog. Although through Rand he really dresses down Mieren (Lanfear) at some point in FoH or tSR about their past relationship. Proceeding with the Strike at Shayol Ghul screams arrogance, but it did seal the DO for 3000 odd years.

 

Egwene needs to be taken down a peg or two and I expect this will happen at FoM. She will try to pull a femal channeller boycot on helping Rand break the seals, and Sorilea (or Perrin) will bend her over her knee for a spanking.

[Luckers]

IMO Elaida wins purely from the difference between her arrogance and her actual ability. Arrogance can be tolerated if you get things done, but Elaida was compeltely manipulated by Mesaana and the black ajah.

 

 

Part of that was Fain.... one of the Elaida scenes I love is when Alviarin is freaking out and she thinks to herself that Elaida's view of the world is so skewed, but one of the two undeniably scary things about her is how often she managed to force the world to her view (or something like that).

[Vardar]

Ah I think the most arrogant person has got to be cadsuane, you can go all day saying baloney like she reads people, and adapts her methods to fit them individually. There has never been a character thats made me want to stop reading WoT like cadsuane[ I wanted Verin to poison her so badly]. She is indescribably horrible.....I hate her.....seriously.....hate her

 

Yea I have to say, she's the worst. Not only that,but she manages to pull it off against people who could crush her like a bug. Any of the Ashamen with Rand could shield and destroy her. I never quite understood why so many let themselves be bullied by her.

[Suttree]

Yea I have to say, she's the worst. Not only that,but she manages to pull it off against people who could crush her like a bug. Any of the Ashamen with Rand could shield and destroy her.

 

That would be a neat trick given her Paralis-net...

 

It's baffling to me sometimes how badly people misread her character at times. Say what you will but she always has a specific goal in mind to help the light and her track record speaks for itself.

[MountaineerWV]

I'll admit...at first I did not like Nynaeve. Nynaeve is now my favorite character in the series.

 

The first two or three read thoughs I didn't care for her. I disliked Egwene from the start and with each read through I my dislike grew stronger, but the opposite happened with Nynaeve.

 

This is a woman that has had a rough life. Her parents died and left her an orphan. She survived being a sparker. She is deeply devoted to healing. Her loyalty to Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Egwene is unquestionable. Rand, Mat, and Perrin left because they had no choice. Heck, they were ready to go home about three hours after leaving with Moiraine. Egwene left for her own reasons, and it was not due to her feelings for Rand nor to help Rand.

 

Nynaeve put her life to risk to leave Edmond's Field, and has put her life to risk at every turn for one reason and one reason only - to help Rand.

 

I was hoping that after her test for the shawl, Nynaeve would throw the her ring in the face of Egwene. Tell her to screw being an As, to screw the White Tower, and to hell with all of them for loosing their humanity. How are AS any more human than Rand was at his worst?

 

Nynaeve should have been the first channeler to go her separate way from the Tower. To be an Aes Sedai as such from the AoL, a true Servant of All, to reform what the world thinks of AS.

[Vardar]

Yea I have to say, she's the worst. Not only that,but she manages to pull it off against people who could crush her like a bug. Any of the Ashamen with Rand could shield and destroy her.

 

That would be a neat trick given her Paralis-net...

 

It's baffling to me sometimes how badly people misread her character at times. Say what you will but she always has a specific goal in mind to help the light and her track record speaks for itself.

 

Her net doesn't stop channelling, and her Angreal is a minor one (If I recall correctly). Still stands that Rand's personal troupe of Ashaman are more powerful than her and therefore would be able to shield and crush her. Although, I wonder if her one charm that interfers with weaves can stop all weaves, i.e. I wonder if it means she's immune to shields and everything, because if so that seems rather powerful.

 

I haven't misread her character, I understand what she's about, but it all comes down to she's an uncouth tactless bully who is far too used to being obeyed and the single most powerful force walking around. Her ego is so huge a linked circle of 13 couldn't lift it!

[Suttree]

Yea I have to say, she's the worst. Not only that,but she manages to pull it off against people who could crush her like a bug. Any of the Ashamen with Rand could shield and destroy her.

 

That would be a neat trick given her Paralis-net...

 

It's baffling to me sometimes how badly people misread her character at times. Say what you will but she always has a specific goal in mind to help the light and her track record speaks for itself.

 

Her net doesn't stop channelling, and her Angreal is a minor one (If I recall correctly). Still stands that Rand's personal troupe of Ashaman are more powerful than her and therefore would be able to shield and crush her. Although, I wonder if her one charm that interfers with weaves can stop all weaves, i.e. I wonder if it means she's immune to shields and everything, because if so that seems rather powerful.

 

I haven't misread her character, I understand what she's about, but it all comes down to she's an uncouth tactless bully who is far too used to being obeyed and the single most powerful force walking around. Her ego is so huge a linked circle of 13 couldn't lift it!

 

Most think it does. That is the function of the two intertwined crescent moons which grow cool just like Mat's foxhead. The one charm that disrupts weaves is separate. It is one of the reasons why Cads was never nervous around any of the Ashaman from day one.

 

As for her character funny how in your protest that you haven't misread it, you display how badly you have. Sure she is used to being the top dog, but then again she often is. Getting the mission accomplished is what is important to her, end of story. She almost unfailingly treats people based on their actions. Not to mention her tactics are extremely varied. Far from just bullying when diplomacy works best a la Sorilea that is what she does. She was taught early on in the Black Hills by Norla the wilder that there is no one size solution. Maybe brush up on RJ's notes for the character linked above. Again her track record speaks for itself and no one would describe an uncouth bully as a "remarkably adaptable woman".

[muddasssir]

Remarkable Suttree we are agreeing on something I did not like her much when it started but she kind of grew on me as the story went along turning point for me was the scene where she heals that aile girl who later dies. That was the first time we saw the other side of Nynaeve the healer from there on she kept getting better.

[Suttree]

Remarkable Suttree we are agreeing on something I did not like her much when it started but she kind of grew on me as the story went along turning point for me was the scene where she heals that aile girl who later dies. That was the first time we saw the other side of Nynaeve the healer from there on she kept getting better.

 

Fear not mate, my above post refers to Cadsuane not Nynaeve....

[Knivy]

I am on a reread now, and had my first meeting with Cads. Her arrogance initially is clearly the greatest of anyone up to that point. This is exhibited by the sheer rudeness that goes well beyond what a "normal" Aes Sedai could get away with. Previous track record has no impact on arrogance, that is just an attempt to justify it. Elaida isn't arrogant to the level of Eggy or Nyn even. She truely believes what she is doing is right and the only way. She believes she is just doing justice deposing Suian, and she is fighting for control of the Tower against the Hall. The palace, believe it or not, is an extremely small thing on this level. At the very least, its giving people jobs :)

 

Now I dont know Cads perspective of this initial encounter, but she is a smart woman and knows what she is doing. Just because she has her protection does not allow her to show rudeness to the people of power in the room. Berlain at least is a ruler of no little influence with Rand's forces at the time, and her dismissal of everyone, including Aiel chiefs. Despite her power, she still should show respect to those in charge. Think of a general acting like that to a king. Sure, the general has the skill, or "power," but the king still deserves respect.

 

Sure, Rand and the other male channelers she may be treating in the right way in her view, but that is only right when they are alone. The maidens act somewhat similar to her, but only in private, as it should be.

 

EDIT:

Now I know she improves later, especially by the time she allowed back in Rand's presence, but that is the single most arrogant display in my opinion in the entire series (at least to this point in the reread).

[David Selig]

I don't care about RJ's notes about Cadsuane. The only relevant thing is how she comes across in the books themselves. RJ may have intended her to be "remarkably adaptable" but she is far from it in the books IMO. A remarkably adaptable person wouldn't repeatedly slap the saviour of the world for such a silly reason as cursing when she desperately needed to make him like her and trust her.

[Suttree]

I don't care about RJ's notes about Cadsuane. The only relevant thing is how she comes across in the books themselves. RJ may have intended her to be "remarkably adaptable" but she is far from it in the books IMO.

 

Feel like we agree on most things David but apparently not here. How she comes across in the books? There are numerous situations in which she shows herself to be adaptable and varies her tactics based on the situation. She almost unfailingly treats people based on their own actions. Once again the mission in helping the light is always her first priority and say what you will about slapping but there are not many who have Rand's back more so than her.

 

Don't have time to look now but I have had long debates in the past on this and Luckers has laid out a few very well done takes on the topic. Maybe he would have them easy to hand in order to repost?

[Luckers]

I don't care about RJ's notes about Cadsuane. The only relevant thing is how she comes across in the books themselves. RJ may have intended her to be "remarkably adaptable" but she is far from it in the books IMO.

 

Feel like we agree on most things David but apparently not here. How she comes across in the books? There are numerous situations in which she shows herself to be adaptable and varies her tactics based on the situation. She almost unfailingly treats people based on their own actions. Once again the mission in helping the light is always her first priority and say what you will about slapping but there are not many who have Rand's back more so than her.

 

Don't have time to look now but I have had long debates in the past on this and Luckers has laid out a few very well done takes on the topic. Maybe he would have them easy to hand in order to repost?

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/51169-the-subtleties-of-cadsuane/

 

I am on a reread now, and had my first meeting with Cads. Her arrogance initially is clearly the greatest of anyone up to that point. This is exhibited by the sheer rudeness that goes well beyond what a "normal" Aes Sedai could get away with. Previous track record has no impact on arrogance, that is just an attempt to justify it. Elaida isn't arrogant to the level of Eggy or Nyn even. She truely believes what she is doing is right and the only way. She believes she is just doing justice deposing Suian, and she is fighting for control of the Tower against the Hall. The palace, believe it or not, is an extremely small thing on this level. At the very least, its giving people jobs :)

 

Now I dont know Cads perspective of this initial encounter, but she is a smart woman and knows what she is doing.

 

We actually do get something on her perspective of the meeting in her POV which directly follows that scene--she basically states that she was rude and abrasive to push Rand so she can get a feel for him--and the deductions she makes based on the feel she gets are stunningly accurate for such a short meeting, so her methodology seemed to work pretty darn well, for all that it may have been unpleasant for Rand and offensive for those who view him as the sacrosanct hero.