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The Fisher King

Who is the biggest "JERK" ever in fantasy, sci-fi etc

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no Harry realized that what Snape did was brave. no ones contesting that. i simpley pointed out that his motvies for doign so were less admirable.

 

some could argue that what Voldemort did was Brave as well, just as some could argue what Darth Vadar did was brave or what Padan Fain has done is brave. doesn't make them any less of a jerk than they are.

 

and Harry never called Snape a hero, not in the books. he admired him for the sacrifice of his life, but he never considered him a Hero.

 

 

also - there are plenty of so called Heros out there that are striaght up Jerks. multiple Super Heros from the comicbook universe can be sited. Wolverine, Gambit, Tony Stark, Hulk .... the list could literally go on. just because someone ends up being a good guy, doesn't mean their automatically nto a jerk.

 

 

take Umbridge for instance, shes not a bad guy per say, ofh she does horrible things yes but she's not on the side of Voldemort and opposes him in her own way. yet shes a class A bitch (the female equivalent to being a jerk mind you)

Edited by Red2111

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I'm afraid we may just have to agree to disagree as we seem to be coming from very different places on our view of this character. Our discussion is just going around in circles.

 

I never said Snape wasn't a jerk, he is, but he is also a hero. He made mistakes, but the deck was stacked against him. Anyone who has grown up with neglectful/abusive parents, been bullied by peers, fallen in love with someone who doesn't love them back can empathize with Snape. He had no chance. His self-esteem was in the toilet. The only people who reached out to him or wanted him around were dark wizards.

 

The fact that he is able to turn things around and become one of the heroes of the story is a miracle made possible only by his true love for Lily Potter. (You can call it lust if you want, but that won't change the fact that it was true love.) Some may say, too little too late, but in the end, his actions help to defeat Voldemort.

 

The reason people like Snape is because:

 

A. We can look at all he went through and say, "I know that feel, bro." And "There but for the Grace of God go I."

 

B. We all make mistakes, sometimes big ones, like becoming a Death Eater and telling Lord Voldemort about a prophesy we overhear. Snape's journey gives us all hope that no matter how bad we have been, no matter the mistakes we have made, there is the chance for redemption.

 

If Snape does not redeem himself, I don't know who does.

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take Umbridge for instance, shes not a bad guy per say, ofh she does horrible things yes but she's not on the side of Voldemort and opposes him in her own way. yet shes a class A bitch (the female equivalent to being a jerk mind you)

 

She is passively on the side of Voldemort. I can't think for a second she didn't have any idea what was going on. Mad Eye was known for relentlessly opposing evil and her keeping the eye was a sign of her complete immersion into evil.

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There is allot of jerks in fantasy and science fiction but if I have to compile a short list then it would probably be.

 

Alfred Bester from Babylon 5

Getulio Vargas Sao Cristavao from Mage the Ascension

Galina Casban from Wheel of Time

Joffrey Baratheon from A Song of Ice and Fire

Starscream from Transformers

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For the purposes of this thread I'm not going to talk about great villains that I love to hate like Joffrey and Cersei from Song of Ice and Fire, or Yrkoon from The Elric Saga, instead I'll talk about the characters that aren't necessarily evil but that need to have their teeth knocked down their throat.

This being Dragonmount Cadsuane is the first name I'm going to mention. If only she were half as smart as she pretends to be the rest of the forces of Light could just go have lunch while she solved the world's problems.

Lisbeth Salander from The Girl with the Dragon tattoo... she's isn't just anti-social she takes it to the point of ignorance, yet still feels entitled to be a self-righteous. Combine that with super-hero like abilites that snapped my suspension of disbelief like an old rubber band and you've got a genuinely irritating character, I read the first two but doubt I'll ever pick up Hornet's Nest.

Battlestar Gallactica is one of (probably the) best TV show I've ever seen, and one of the biggest reasons is that it's characters are interesting rather than likeable... and I'll take an interesting character over a likeable one any day. That's why I love Gaius Baltar and Lee Adama. On the other hand if it were up to me I'd put Starbuck out the nearest airlock given half a chance. She's too stupid to be trusted to do more than tie her own shoes, yet still manages to pull off a holier than thou attitude. Come to think of it, that's to be expected. Any time you meet someone that judgemental you can be fairly certain their IQ is around room temperature.

Having said that Jamie Lannister is one of my absolute favorite characters in all of Fantasy. He's certainly one of the most interesting. Nothing about the character panders to the reader; he isn't what we want in a hero and you certainly wouldn't want to be like him. Never the less he has some genuine intergrity once he gets past his narcissism. More, I suspect, than most would have if they had lived his life. Go ahead and pass judgement on him if it makes you feel better, but there are no men like him, only him.

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To be honest, for almost all of episode 4, Han Solo is a bit of a jerk. He's got a good side. On the Princess Bride, Vizzini is also a huge jerkface. I have mixed feelings about Snape. He's a bit of a screwy character.

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Nynaeve from books 1 - 5 (No hesitation as I hated Nynaeve so much I during my first read through, I nearly stopped reading Wheel of Time because of her. I just can't stress enough how much I hated her.) Nynaeve from books 6ish onwards has improved so but my hatred of her earlier incarnation doesn't let her escape the list.

Egwene - Obviously, no question. For me she took over from Nynaeve for my number 1 hate when Nynaeve improved.

Elayne - Obviously again - I shout die die die every time she appears.

Fail (spelled wrong deliberately) - Conniving spoiled brat who again I want to die in every scene she's in.

Emperor Palpatine

Anakin Skywalker for being a whiny spoiled brat and then falling to the darkside.

Jar Jar Binks

Primarch Lorgar, Erebus and Kor Phaeron from Warhammer 40K

Father and Son Malfoy from Harry Potter

Harry Potters Uncle Aunt and Cousin.

Denethor from LOTR (although he was mad with grief in his defence)

Stillson the bully from Ender's Game

Biff Tannen from Back to the Future

Denis Nedry the computer guy who releases all the dinos in Jurassic Park

Ce'Nedra - spoiled little brat who did her best to ruin the Belgariad for me.

Vladimir Harkonnen from Dune

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Draco Malfoy(Harry Potter), especially in the earlier books.

 

Silk (Belgariad), funny as hell but still a jerk sometimes

 

"That idiot" Ivan Vorpatril (Vorkosigan Series), tall, handsome and as bright as a blown lightbulb

 

Ambassador Udina (Mass Effect), Career politician, need I say more

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Denethor from LOTR definitely comes to mind too.

 

And Seymour from Final Fantasy X. He's not necessarily a jerk, he just keeps popping up and he has a stupid voice and ridiculous hair.

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Cruella Devil. She wanted to make a coat out of 99 puppies.

 

Also, Woody, in all three movies. He made Zurg seem like a nice guy.

 

Oh! And Sylvester McMonkey McBean.

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actually, all a psychopath is, is someone who lacks empathy. its a genetic thing, scientists actually call it the "666 gene" all serial killers are sociapaths, but not all sociopaths are killers. alot of people actually have this geneitc disposition, what "flips the switch" between blending in and leading a normal life and becoming the likes of Ted Bundy is usually how thier raised and things that affect them in the younger more impressionable years.

 

/useless info learned on NatGeo

 

Joff was 100% a psychopath though. he more than lacked empathy. but then again, what do you get from an inbred twit whose moms is the epitamy of narcassim, whose dad was just a straight up jerk until he lost his hand (thoguh i still <3 Jamie) and whose step dad abused his mom and was a flanderizzing slob of a drunk

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Emperor Palpatine

 

Biff Tannen from Back to the Future

 

How is Palpatine a jerk?  He's just the embodiment of evil.

 

Biff...lol.  Yeah, big jerk.

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Oh and any Dragonball Z followers how about

 

Picollo, Bulma, Vegeta, Nappa, Radditz... I'll stop there because they're too many to name in that show however the first three in that list have redeeming qualities

although I'd agree they can all be asshats, I LOVE them still

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