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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Goal of the Dark One


Eggplant
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I tried to search for a thread on this subject, as I don't want to be that annoying new guy that makes a post on something that has been thoroughly discussed already. Well I didn't find anything on this subject, so I will just throw it out there.

 

Most darkfriends seem to think that the DO wants to recreate the universe in his own image. This seems rather plausible as a goal for the DO, and I guess it makes sense that he reward those who helped hi to do this. On the other hand Moridin theorizes that the goal of the DO is simply to destroy the universe. This latter idea is the one that seems to be most popular among the posters here at DM (at least as far as I can tell by reading this board today while recovering from my hangover).

 

Now we all know the Moridin is a smart cat, but that doesn't make him right about this (or anything else for that matter). But it does seem to go along with some of Verin's postulating (and she was a pretty smart chick herself). Anyway, both ideas seem plausible I guess, but I'm inclined to think that the DO wants to simply rule everything. The goal of destroying everything seems kind of pointless, though if Verin is right then the DO is the epitome of illogic, chaos and all that then I suppose such a goal doesn't have to make sense, does it?

 

I put up a poll. I'd be interested to see what y'all think about all this.

 

EDIT: Okay I tried to make a poll. Maybe I'm too new. :P

Edited by EggplantWizard
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I can't pull out quotes 'caus I can't remember wich book(s) I've read it. But I seem to remember seeing someone in the boks say that, if the DO braks free, he will destroy the Wheel and tear apart the Age Lace. It's always confused me, to be honest, why anyone would get behind that. The Chosn seem to think they will live forever; where? I cannot imagine a world made in the DO's imagine will be a very nice play to be. Especially if the only population is, you know, the DO, the Chosen and som DF's... Yeah, sounds like fun.

 

So in conclusion, I don't get it either.

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I can't pull out quotes 'caus I can't remember wich book(s) I've read it. But I seem to remember seeing someone in the boks say that, if the DO braks free, he will destroy the Wheel and tear apart the Age Lace. It's always confused me, to be honest, why anyone would get behind that. The Chosn seem to think they will live forever; where? I cannot imagine a world made in the DO's imagine will be a very nice play to be. Especially if the only population is, you know, the DO, the Chosen and som DF's... Yeah, sounds like fun.

 

So in conclusion, I don't get it either.

 

I always got the idea that the Forsaken thought they could have their own little slice of the universe to do with what they wanted where they have unlimited power, immortality, lots of hot slutty chicks that have to do whatever you want... I can understand the goal I guess. Other lesser darkfriends probably think they will get to rule underneath them. So yeah, while the DO's universe would probably suck in general, Asmodean's musical paradise could be kind of cool, for example. I get the idea that the Forsaken at least believe that the DO will give them some autonomy to make their own little corner of hell kind of nice.

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The Dark One is a force of nature that equates to unchecked chaos. The end game of the series will be figuring out how to restore the balance. I personally think it is a plausible theory that the bore is the result of the pattern attempting to restore balance after unchecked order knocks the pattern out of whack. The Dragon is the patterns method of balancing out and eliminating the excess chaos of the DO that was brought out in the pattern. If you recall, the AoL was a utopian society that very possibly represents too much order and likewise an imbalance.

 

I could be far off, but I suspect this is the direction the sreies is heading. A major theme of this series is balance and how screwed up things get when there is imbalance (yin yang symbol, saidin/saidar, male/female cultural issues, etc). The DO and the Dragon exist purely as tools that the pattern uses to keep everything in check and the wheel of time turning.

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I think the DO wishes to destroy all of creation -- after all he is the antithesis of the Creator, and is simply duping most Darkfriends with empty promises of power. Consider all the Darkfriends we've met... how many are actually better off for it? Nearly all meet sticky ends before reaping their promised "rewards". Even the Chosen haven't exactly had a great time of it.

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The DO wants to end it all, since he's been in solitary confinement since the beginning of time I can kinda see where he's coming from.

Who knows? He might long for the time when it was just him and the creator chillin in the void.

As for the Forsaken from what I can tell the DO can be a very convincing dude/god/thing, so hood winking a few mortals shouldn't be beyond him after all he is a god and people will worship just about anything sometimes.

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I dont remember exactly where it is but in some part it say Ishamael (Moridin)surmised that as the wheel of time turns over and over and over that DO will eventualy win, it is simple odds and a win for DO is the final win no more wheel of time age lace pattern ... Ishamael just wants to be on the winning side, and it gives him icreadible power as the wheel turns in the mean time.

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A newer, semi-popular theory that I believe is that, as the DO is both the yang to the Creator's yin and the ultimate advocate of chaos, the DO truly wants Rand to kill him. As a being of chaos, what would be better than to disrupt order for the remainder of eternity?

 

It makes all the seeming incompetence on the side of the Dark suddenly make a strange sort of sense. He wants to die, and, failing that, to win and unmake existence.

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Whatever the Dark One wants and will do, he's promised his followers eternal life, glory and power in the world to come for serving him, and death or destruction or enslavement to all those opposed.

 

I believe that the Dark One wants to destroy everything, but he perhaps wants to subvert the Pattern first before doing so by making the Dragon do his will. Maybe the Dark One will make a new world after, but he seems very opposed to the one built by the Creator.

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It makes all the seeming incompetence on the side of the Dark suddenly make a strange sort of sense. He wants to die, and, failing that, to win and unmake existence.

 

Yeah darkfriends do have a little Keystone Cops thing going on. The real purpose of all darkfriends' acts seems to be just to cause as chaos as possible. It's been the agenda for 3,000 years and it's prevented the nations from getting their act together so they can effectively fight the Shadow. So as crazy as the Shadow's agenda seems and as uncoordinated as they are you can't argue with results.

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I can't pull out quotes 'caus I can't remember wich book(s) I've read it. But I seem to remember seeing someone in the boks say that, if the DO braks free, he will destroy the Wheel and tear apart the Age Lace. It's always confused me, to be honest, why anyone would get behind that. The Chosn seem to think they will live forever; where? I cannot imagine a world made in the DO's imagine will be a very nice play to be. Especially if the only population is, you know, the DO, the Chosen and som DF's... Yeah, sounds like fun.

 

So in conclusion, I don't get it either.

 

One of his names is the father of lies; so I see it as that he's lied to the Forsaken in the same way they lie to lesser dark friends. He wants to stop the wheel from turning, make everyone suffer and then he'll have them to toy with as they can't be reborn.

 

I dont remember exactly where it is but in some part it say Ishamael (Moridin)surmised that as the wheel of time turns over and over and over that DO will eventualy win, it is simple odds and a win for DO is the final win no more wheel of time age lace pattern ... Ishamael just wants to be on the winning side, and it gives him icreadible power as the wheel turns in the mean time.

It's also a bit of a paradox for DO to win. If he's freed in one of the worlds that might be he's free in all of them, but as long as he remains trapped in one he remains trapped in them all. The creator effectively made his goals an impossibility.

 

Erm but yeah, his end game is nothing less than the destruction of time and having a bunch of souls for playthings. (read: victims.) I reckon though, that he'd first remake the world as a horrible place, after his own image to make people swear to him in their hopelessness so that when they aren't able to be reborn they actually do go to him.

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in one of the books one of the chosen muse that the dark one would be as happy to subvert rand to his side as escape his prison.

So the goals of the dark one are two part

1. subvert the dragon reborn

2. destroy the pattern and everything in it.

 

the dark one has no interest in controlling the world or giving power to the chosen. they are merely dupes of his lies as moridin confirms to rand.

only moridin has realised the dark ones true goals and still serves faithfully, the other chosen all serve in belief of "grand rewards in the eternitites"

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in one of the books one of the chosen muse that the dark one would be as happy to subvert rand to his side as escape his prison.

So the goals of the dark one are two part

1. subvert the dragon reborn

2. destroy the pattern and everything in it.

 

the dark one has no interest in controlling the world or giving power to the chosen. they are merely dupes of his lies as moridin confirms to rand.

only moridin has realised the dark ones true goals and still serves faithfully, the other chosen all serve in belief of "grand rewards in the eternitites"

 

Unless the Dark One is also lying to Moridin, which is entirely possible, being the Father of Lies. In fact, I wouldnt ever trust anything the Dark One has ever said.

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in one of the books one of the chosen muse that the dark one would be as happy to subvert rand to his side as escape his prison.

So the goals of the dark one are two part

1. subvert the dragon reborn

2. destroy the pattern and everything in it.

 

the dark one has no interest in controlling the world or giving power to the chosen. they are merely dupes of his lies as moridin confirms to rand.

only moridin has realised the dark ones true goals and still serves faithfully, the other chosen all serve in belief of "grand rewards in the eternitites"

 

Unless the Dark One is also lying to Moridin, which is entirely possible, being the Father of Lies. In fact, I wouldnt ever trust anything the Dark One has ever said.

Unless the Dark One doesn't have the power to destroy creation , or is not allowed too ,and he need the help of channeler to built another Choedan Kal and use it to end creation.

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in one of the books one of the chosen muse that the dark one would be as happy to subvert rand to his side as escape his prison.

So the goals of the dark one are two part

1. subvert the dragon reborn

2. destroy the pattern and everything in it.

 

the dark one has no interest in controlling the world or giving power to the chosen. they are merely dupes of his lies as moridin confirms to rand.

only moridin has realised the dark ones true goals and still serves faithfully, the other chosen all serve in belief of "grand rewards in the eternitites"

 

Unless the Dark One is also lying to Moridin, which is entirely possible, being the Father of Lies. In fact, I wouldnt ever trust anything the Dark One has ever said.

i don't think moridin trusts the darkone in the slightest, he likely figured out what he believes by himself. think emo sociopath in a deep depression. i'd guess he is only one hair's width away from killing himself, and only stays alive because he knows that if he does, he will just come back groundhog day style.

Edited by Testy al'Carr
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The simple truth is, no one is really sure what he is after. Some think it is the destruction of creation itself (Moridin), some think it is to remake the world in his own image. Some think it is to rule the world, and many, many more. I would extend Verin's comment about the battle not being fought the way Rand thinks to include that it isn't being fought for what anyone thinks. His goals are his own, and he never elected to share.

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The simple truth is, no one is really sure what he is after. Some think it is the destruction of creation itself (Moridin), some think it is to remake the world in his own image. Some think it is to rule the world, and many, many more. I would extend Verin's comment about the battle not being fought the way Rand thinks to include that it isn't being fought for what anyone thinks. His goals are his own, and he never elected to share.

 

I can pretty much agree with this. It's fun to speculate though. I guess no one ever asked RJ but then again [blasphemy] I'm not sure RJ really knew himself. He hasn't exactly been consistent with his statements and their congruence with the plot. [/blasphemy]

Edited by EggplantWizard
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