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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Release Date Announced: Jan. 8, 2013


Kivam
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I was upset about the date for awhile now. And this news jut makes me...to be honest i don't have the words to express it without sounding like a 13 year old. What a shame! And shame on people who made this call. No honor! And yeah, I too wonder how many people will not live to see the end? What a shame...

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Oh, and for those who think this is not about marketing - christams will bank all those "new covers."

I understand that book takes time to write and edit but come on, over a year of editing?? Hire some editors and get it done. Talk about bs excuse. If other business entities were this slow our civilization would not be around. GGGGGRRRR!!! Im so angry and u know what, Im not going to apologize for it either.

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Oh, and for those who think this is not about marketing - christams will bank all those "new covers."

I understand that book takes time to write and edit but come on, over a year of editing?? Hire some editors and get it done. Talk about bs excuse. If other business entities were this slow our civilization would not be around. GGGGGRRRR!!! Im so angry and u know what, Im not going to apologize for it either.

 

Multiple people that understand how the industry works have all weighed in at this point and agree that marketing has nothing to do with the decision. The two month difference to hype WoT related merchandise will not offset the sales lost during the Holiday season. If Tor had it's way the Novemeber date would have held, that is what they wanted!

 

As for hiring new editors, this is the last book upon which RJ's life's work will be judged. You truly expect Harriet to bring on brand new people with no understanding of the project? Team Jordan has discussed for some time how this editing/revision process would take longer and that they had to get this last book right. There were some deadlines missed by Brandon and once the rough draft was turned in it obviously became clear how much work there was still to do. Like after TGS and ToM they would risk even more mistakes just to appease the small sliver of the fan base that are actually upset about this decision. Most people won't even know the book is released until they see it in the store or online. This decision was made with RJ's legacy in mind and once again I commend them for taking the time to do it the right way.

 

Honestly the sense of entitlement some people are showing is insane. Leigh Butler had a fitting comment in her re-read today on the topic.

 

I also understand that this has occasioned an outburst of indignation from some quarters in the comments, from people who think that the release date should be earlier because… well, because they want it to be, from what I can tell. Sort of like how my one and a half-year-old nephew wants his lunch now, now, right now, and doesn’t understand that food doesn’t just appear like magic, it has to be chopped and peeled and mixed and heated and generally prepared before he can have it, otherwise he’s not going to like it very much. The difference between the two situations is, my nephew is a toddler whose brain is not yet developed enough to fully grasp things like this; I’m really not sure what the former group’s excuse is.

Edited by Suttree
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Oh, and for those who think this is not about marketing - christams will bank all those "new covers."

I understand that book takes time to write and edit but come on, over a year of editing?? Hire some editors and get it done. Talk about bs excuse. If other business entities were this slow our civilization would not be around. GGGGGRRRR!!! Im so angry and u know what, Im not going to apologize for it either.

 

Multiple people that understand how the industry works have all weighed in at this point and agree that marketing has nothing to do with the decision. The two month difference to hype WoT related merchandise will not offset the sales lost during the Holiday season. If Tor had it's way the Novemeber date would have held, that is what they wanted!

 

As for hiring new editors, this is the last book upon which RJ's life's work will be judged. You truly expect Harriet to bring on brand new people with no understanding of the project? Team Jordan has discussed for some time how this editing/revision process would take longer and that they had to get this last book right. There were some deadlines missed by Brandon and once the rough draft was turned in it obviously became clear how much work there was still to do. Like after TGS and ToM they would risk even more mistakes just to appease the small sliver of the fan base that are actually upset about this decision. Most people won't even know the book is released until they see it in the store or online. This decision was made with RJ's legacy in mind and once again I commend them for taking the time to do it the right way.

 

Honestly the sense of entitlement some people are showing is insane. Leigh Butler had a fitting comment in her re-read today on the topic.

 

I also understand that this has occasioned an outburst of indignation from some quarters in the comments, from people who think that the release date should be earlier because… well, because they want it to be, from what I can tell. Sort of like how my one and a half-year-old nephew wants his lunch now, now, right now, and doesn’t understand that food doesn’t just appear like magic, it has to be chopped and peeled and mixed and heated and generally prepared before he can have it, otherwise he’s not going to like it very much. The difference between the two situations is, my nephew is a toddler whose brain is not yet developed enough to fully grasp things like this; I’m really not sure what the former group’s excuse is.

 

Earlier I was on my phone so perhaps I didn’t make myselfvery clear. I will try to address your points as clearly as possible.

 

The following is not meant to be degrading to fans of the series for expressing their views. However, if you took active part in making the decision on the release date, the following is totally meant to be offensive towards you.

 

In regards to sales/Christmas argument, I did read all posts in this thread so far and I didn’t see any references to the sales figures of the re-released books with new covers. Do you really think that TOR releases these books just because they would like to give us (existing fans) more options or something? I am in no way “insider” of the industry and thus don’t have any “insider” knowledge of it. However, what I do have is business education and more importantly business operations and marketing experience (actually more than I could ever wish for and thus my recent change in career paths). And so when I see a marketing campaign I can call it a mile away. The book it pushed back to give previous books an opportunity to piggy ride of the marking for AMOL. What TOR is doing is trying to turn their current “cash cows” into “start” (see BCG Matrix). Just think about it, do you think a book with number 14 or number 1 has a better chance at sales on Christmas as a present?

 

In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if there will be a veryserious cross-sale opportunity here as well. Enter video game! I know there isn’t much info on it but I wouldn’t be surprised if in 11 months there will be at least screen shots and such (or maybe even full release). Finally, the movie development is also silent but who knows, maybe there will be a big announcement (though I wouldn’t be surprised if Hollywood will want to see if this re-release can attract younger and newer fan base before the project will move forward, which might be another reason for it).

 

As I said, I’m not an industry insider, but I am also not impressed with peoples’ job titles or cap letters after their names on the business cards. I’ve seen enough people with even legitimate credentials that made a mistake of thinking they have a voice of authority in an issue just because an issue is related to their expertise. I’m not trying to say that people who expressed their view on the sales/Christmasissue should be dismissed, but unless someone can show me serious previous performance figures (in regards to re-releases) I will treat their position on the basis of logic and soundness of argument, which I don’t see at this point.

 

When it comes to editing, I agree that this is the final work and thus it’s important. But can we agree that as far as spelling and grammar goes any good editor (without intimate knowledge of series) will do? As far as coherencypart of the book – there are three people on Team Jordan. If they each would spend 8 hours per day on editing that’s 24 hours per day of productivity on ONE PROJECT. Just ask yourself, at your workplaces, what kind of projects take place in 6 months to 1 year? I’ve seen very major project completed from R&D to completed fabrication done in that time frame. So, all this nonsense about time to edit a book is crazy. If all other companies and businesses were this inefficient we would never have a civilization!

 

However, what’s really gets to me is how only Fish, along with few others, have an adequate reaction to this news. I’m not trying to be offensive to fans and their opinions but I just feel like I don’t understandwhat the hack is going on! Most of the people act as if they have a person financial stake in the matter (which I would say is crazy)! But why than most peopleare so understanding to a corporate greed and complete unfairness? I would like to make it clear that I again take Fish’s side here and I wouldn’t be surprised if BS is sick and tired of this fiasco. After all, he was one us – a fan of the series – and now he’s in the middle of the whole things with probably mixed feelings at the least (I don’t know the man personally in any way and this is just IMO, so don’t think I’m trying to state something as a fact, just a hunch).So I’m upset at TOR, and yes, Harriet too! I get that business is business but one would think that after having such a successful run in sales and profits they would give fans a satisfaction of finishing the series. I saw a post earlier (I think again that it was Fish) that asked how many people that might be sick/ill will never see the last book because of another delay (and please don’t say it’s only few months, Fish, I believe, made it very clear so no reason for me to get into that)? What if it was one of you who had only few months to live and you’ve been a diehard fan of the series? I can guarantee that your outlook would be very different. Don’t get me wrong, I’m coming fromselfish point of view, because I want to read it ASAP, but before I will joinin support of greed I will throw my lot with the true contrarians!

 

So let me respond to Ms. Butler's insightful comment about toddlers and adults - it is us, ungrateful adults, whom seem not to have an excuse, who provide for your income. It is too bad that once people make it to the top (or to near the people on the top in this cases, I guess) they forget on who's shoulders they perched on their way there. Maybe that's another reason why I like BS so much, he has humility and gratitude to his fan base. As a final point, I would advice Ms. Butler to enjoy her place near the top, as it is true that for at least the next book she still has that. But a very appropriate Russian saying comes to mind, "Remember the people you've met on your way to the top of the mountain, as you will meet them again on your way down."

 

Hopefully now I’ll be able go to sleep.

Edited by NetSlider
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NetSlider, I get that you were tired and frustrated, but a couple of things: please go over that post and insert spaces where you missed them. And, kindly refrain from actively trying to offend anyone in your posts.

 

Suttree, you know I'm with you on the release date, but come on. It doesn't take a genius to understand where all this is coming from, and ignoring it (or offhandedly dismissing it) is what sparks the kind of reaction you got from NetSlider. There's nothing wrong with Team Jordan taking the time they need to make this book what it should be; there is, however, something wrong with the way they keep promising to deliver and fail to do so. You won't have me look for one of Brandon's quotes where he says this spring's not very likely, but it would definitely still be 2012, right? Going back further, one would find other promises of earlier dates.

 

You can fault fans for believing in these announcements, which were, frankly, unrealistic. But where a mommy is acting rationally when she keeps telling her little baby his meal is almost ready (knowing full well it would take another half an hour), dealing with adults in this manner is less justifiable.

I'm reminded of a Smurfs episode where the gang was going somewhere, and someone kept asking Papasmurf how far it still is. Papasmurf always answered "not very far", until he lost his nerves and yelled "very far!" And I wonder, whose fault was it that this poor little smurf kept bugging him?

 

And now, as Luckers said before, I probably managed to piss off everyone involved, and so my work here is done :smile:

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I don't feel disrespected by Team Jordan or Tor. I don't want it released until its ready. Regardless of whether you think they are lying or not, they now have time and knowing them they will make good use of it whether it is "necessary" or not. I can't bring myself to be angry about this... I can try but no... It won't work. And all the talk about "promises" and all the assumptions of the exact state of the draft and the time needed strike me as overconfident from people who are not even involved with it. Of course there are financial interests involved, but we have nothing indicating that those interests are degrading the quality of the book. It's not like they are holding it back to ramp up production of action figures or announcing that a WoT MMO will be released (God forbid) in 2015 and that they will delay the book until then. The book is coming, it is getting thorough treatment, and we are only talking about weeks from when people had assumed it would be out in the first place. I'm very much a fan, but that date makes absolutely no difference to my well being.

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Oh, and for those who think this is not about marketing - christams will bank all those "new covers."

I understand that book takes time to write and edit but come on, over a year of editing?? Hire some editors and get it done. Talk about bs excuse. If other business entities were this slow our civilization would not be around. GGGGGRRRR!!! Im so angry and u know what, Im not going to apologize for it either.

 

Multiple people that understand how the industry works have all weighed in at this point and agree that marketing has nothing to do with the decision. The two month difference to hype WoT related merchandise will not offset the sales lost during the Holiday season. If Tor had it's way the Novemeber date would have held, that is what they wanted!

 

As for hiring new editors, this is the last book upon which RJ's life's work will be judged. You truly expect Harriet to bring on brand new people with no understanding of the project? Team Jordan has discussed for some time how this editing/revision process would take longer and that they had to get this last book right. There were some deadlines missed by Brandon and once the rough draft was turned in it obviously became clear how much work there was still to do. Like after TGS and ToM they would risk even more mistakes just to appease the small sliver of the fan base that are actually upset about this decision. Most people won't even know the book is released until they see it in the store or online. This decision was made with RJ's legacy in mind and once again I commend them for taking the time to do it the right way.

 

Honestly the sense of entitlement some people are showing is insane. Leigh Butler had a fitting comment in her re-read today on the topic.

 

I also understand that this has occasioned an outburst of indignation from some quarters in the comments, from people who think that the release date should be earlier because… well, because they want it to be, from what I can tell. Sort of like how my one and a half-year-old nephew wants his lunch now, now, right now, and doesn’t understand that food doesn’t just appear like magic, it has to be chopped and peeled and mixed and heated and generally prepared before he can have it, otherwise he’s not going to like it very much. The difference between the two situations is, my nephew is a toddler whose brain is not yet developed enough to fully grasp things like this; I’m really not sure what the former group’s excuse is.

 

Earlier I was on my phone so perhaps I didn’t make myselfvery clear. I will try to address your points as clearly as possible.

 

The following is not meant to be degrading to fans of the series for expressing their views. However, if you took active part in making the decision on the release date, the following is totally meant to be offensive towards you.

 

In regards to sales/Christmas argument, I did read all posts in this thread so far and I didn’t see any references to the sales figures of the re-released books with new covers. Do you really think that TOR releases these books just because they would like to give us (existing fans) more options or something? I am in no way “insider” of the industry and thus don’t have any “insider” knowledge of it. However, what I do have is business education and more importantly business operations and marketing experience (actually more than I could ever wish for and thus my recent change in career paths). And so when I see a marketing campaign I can call it a mile away. The book it pushed back to give previous books an opportunity to piggy ride of the marking for AMOL. What TOR is doing is trying to turn their current “cash cows” into “start” (see BCG Matrix). Just think about it, do you think a book with number 14 or number 1 has a better chance at sales on Christmas as a present?

EotW has been out for twenty years. Yes, it does still sell (hence still being in print), and a new cover is probably intended to get new people to notice the series. However, which do you think is likely to be the bigger seller, the new release or the old book? EotW will appeal to people who haven't picked up the series before, AMoL to the established WoT readership. Which is going to be seen as the bigger event, in publishing terms? The old book with the new cover, or the new book, the big finale? AMoL is likely to be the bigger seller. Oh, you'll certainly shift some copies of EotW, thanks in part to that new cover. I expect every year some new readers are brought into WoT by a Christmas copy of EotW. What indication is there that Tor is building their Christmas marketing around rereleases of old books? Have they ever done this? Or do they tend to go with major new releases? No, EotW sales will likely be a trickle, AMoL sales a flood (comparatively). AMoL will likely top the bestseller lists when released. EotW with just a new cover is unlikely to rise that high in the charts.

 

When it comes to editing, I agree that this is the final work and thus it’s important. But can we agree that as far as spelling and grammar goes any good editor (without intimate knowledge of series) will do?
There's more to editing than spelling and grammar. You also have to look at things like characterisation and continuity, and while someone without intimate knowledge could do it within the book (making sure AMoL is consistent with itself), they would not be able to do so with the rest of the series. So there is precious little point in bringing in floods of editors. Besides, have you never heard the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth"?
As far as coherencypart of the book – there are three people on Team Jordan. If they each would spend 8 hours per day on editing that’s 24 hours per day of productivity on ONE PROJECT. Just ask yourself, at your workplaces, what kind of projects take place in 6 months to 1 year? I’ve seen very major project completed from R&D to completed fabrication done in that time frame. So, all this nonsense about time to edit a book is crazy. If all other companies and businesses were this inefficient we would never have a civilization!
Except that does overlook one vital fact: the bulk of the work is done by one man. Brandon Sanderson. He is the guy who has to write the damn thing.

 

I saw a post earlier (I think again that it was Fish) that asked how many people that might be sick/ill will never see the last book because of another delay (and please don’t say it’s only few months, Fish, I believe, made it very clear so no reason for me to get into that)?
I doubt many fans will die in those two months. If they do, can it really be helped? It's an absurd point anyway. I might die tomorrow - therefore I demand Team Jordan give me the unfinished work right now.

 

So let me respond to Ms. Butler's insightful comment about toddlers and adults - it is us, ungrateful adults, whom seem not to have an excuse, who provide for your income.
Internet fandom is a small fraction of WoT readership. Most of internet fandom doesn't seem to be all that ungrateful. So a small fraction of a small fraction of readers are the ones addressed. If you provide a part of her income, it is a very small part. Leigh Butler owes you nothing.

 

I don't think anyone is exactly ecstatic about this taking longer than anticipated (including Team Jordan or Tor). But it is not a massive delay. How dare those monsters at Tor slightly delay my reading of this book. Still, that's entirely in character for Brandon Sanderson - always with overdue books. Not like that nice reliable George R.R. Martin, or Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch - now those are guys who know how to get a book done on time. Some people do need to get a bit of perspective. From RJ's death to the release of AMoL, less time will have passed than passed between AFFC and ADWD. In that time, we've had TGS, TOM, WOK, M:AoL, and others. That's an impressive workrate. It is unfortunate that they have had to delay. But these things happen. It is not unreasonable. It is not a significant delay. It is merely that this work required more work than was anticipated. They thought they could get it done this year. They couldn't. RJ thought he could be done in three books total, and I think we all know how that one turned out. Perspective. A slight delay, nothing more. I, for one, have no problems with them taking the extra time to do it right.

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While there might have been an upswing in story development when BS took over, I've read passages from his volumes and there was definitely a severe plummet in prose quality. Let them take as long as they need to make this a book worth buying. It's going to be HC and really huge, it won't be cheap. I for one will appreciate it being the best book possible.

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Ok I was thinking that as the release date for A Memory of Light is very close to the release date of The Eye of the World (7 days). Why do Tor not just wait and release it then. It would give the series a nice ending in my opinion. If we have to wait nearly a year then another 7 days would not really matter.

 

We're going to be waiting nearly a year to make the book perfect then having the release date on the 15th instead would just tie up the series perfectly. What do you think?

 

Dude. here's what you do: you wait until the Anniversary Date to buy the book, then you open a bottle of champagne and have a little celebration, okay?

 

We get it already!

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...

 

So you are trying to tell us that those two extra months are going to be the difference in some brilliant new marketing campaign that is going to significantly increase the revenue stream above and beyond the lost sales from missing the Holiday season? Tor wanted November, Team Jordan needed the extra time to wrap things up. If you read all the posts you saw my background and I can unequivocally say there is no reason to not culminate such a campaign in November in time for Holiday unless the book will not be ready. Trying to equate the editing work needed for an author with BS's style(his drafts are extremely rough and the second isn't even done, compare that to RJ doing up to 12 before passing it along) who is working on someone else's world to just "spelling and grammar" is ludicrous.

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Did anyone, ever, actually promise that the book would be released no later than November 2011? It seems to me Brandon very clearly hedged when asked this question.

 

BrandSanderson Wed Dec 21

As for when the book will come out, Tor should do an announcement soon. Revisions will take a good six months. So fall, I expect.

 

kierankerr01 Wed Feb 08

@BrandSanderson hi Brandon. What's the official release date for the final wheel of time novel. Can't wait!!!!

BrandSanderson Wed Feb 08

@kierankerr01 I don't think there is one yet. Fall, sometime, probably. But Harriet is the one who will decide.

 

Tor's announcement that Brandon "finished" AMOL does not contain any mention of any release date. http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/12/brandon-sanderson-has-finished-a-memory-of-light

 

So people are outraged over Tor breaking a promised release date that was never even made. Maybe I'm missing a quote to the contrary, and, true, Brandon "expected" that it would "probably" be released in the fall. But as far as I can tell he never stated that it would be, quite clearly pointed out that others were making the call on the release date, and that no final decision had been made.

Edited by Treemaster
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What the heck?! Over a year's worth of editing? I was expecting it out this Spring! Gah...

 

Editing and revisions, the second "rough" draft hasn't even been turned in yet...

 

Oh right, I wasn't aware of this. I just assumed he'd turned in the final copy for editing back in December. And the second draft is "rough". Great... So I can't ask for it as a birthday present or Christmas present. That's just a pain. And I'm running out of books. Double pain. Reread time again I guess.

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Did anyone, ever, actually promise that the book would be released no later than November 2011? It seems to me Brandon very clearly hedged when asked this question.

 

BrandSanderson Wed Dec 21

As for when the book will come out, Tor should do an announcement soon. Revisions will take a good six months. So fall, I expect.

 

kierankerr01 Wed Feb 08

@BrandSanderson hi Brandon. What's the official release date for the final wheel of time novel. Can't wait!!!!

BrandSanderson Wed Feb 08

@kierankerr01 I don't think there is one yet. Fall, sometime, probably. But Harriet is the one who will decide.

 

Tor's announcement that Brandon "finished" AMOL does not contain any mention of any release date. http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/12/brandon-sanderson-has-finished-a-memory-of-light

 

So people are outraged over Tor breaking a promised release date that was never even made. Maybe I'm missing a quote to the contrary, and, true, Brandon "expected" that it would "probably" be released in the fall. But as far as I can tell he never stated that it would be, quite clearly pointed out that others were making the call on the release date, and that no final decision had been made.

 

You know, I cant speak for everybody, but I do have friends whose main complaint is the same as mine, and it is NOT the push back from November to January.

 

Its because Jordan DID promise only ONE more book. And so did Brandon. And then Brandon promised only TWO more books. And then, Tor promised a new WOT book would be released every November between 2009 - 2011. And then they HINTED AMOL would stol be in 2011. THEN, Brandon hinted it should still be in EARLY 2012. THEN implied November of 2012 would still be likely ...And now we are at an arbitrary date in January of NEXT year which isn't even symmetrically synched to honor the January Anniversary of the very first books release.

 

Listen, I GET 'circumstances' ...basically....Life Happens...sometimes.....And Im MUCH happier the time is being taken to ensure high quality...this approach also gave us TGS which I greatly enjoyed...*I* get it. Ive been through the hard knocks of life... Wondering where my next meal is...working three jobs...grieving my mother who loved this series and didnt live to see AMOL...grieving Mr Jordan, (who I met and admired)...who didnt get to live to write the last line of his epic with his own hands, though the words were in his mind...But to just sum up the "complainers" as big "babies" who are just bitching about an "extra two months" is inarguably disingenuous and not taking into account all of the facts and the full history of the situation. I can see how SOME can rightly view a long string of broken promises at this point.

 

It was also undoubtedly in poor taste of Tor to use the very same announcement of the postponement to announce that they will be launching and marketing new WOT later this year in "anticipation" of AMOLs release. I am also not the only one of my friends who is deeply disturbed by the money Tor stands to make off this book. There was a time when books were art to be shared, not products of massive marketing machines...

 

Also, Harriets misguided and unfortunate attitute toward the Digital World and the tenuous state of confirmation regarding the Ebook release of AMOL probably does not help smooth any potentially -ruffled feathers.

 

We the fans who support this protect with our money, time and emotional investment have the right to express these thoughts and feelings...in the end though, as I always say, I personally am very appreciative of these folk's efforts to help us see our story's end. Well, *an* end ;)

 

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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...

 

I honesty think publishers should totally refrain from estimating release dates. We have seen the issues this has caused for Martin, Rothfuss etc. I know they are just trying to be optimistic but it seems to only disappoint a great many people in the long run.

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I don't think anyone is exactly ecstatic about this taking longer than anticipated (including Team Jordan or Tor). But it is not a massive delay. How dare those monsters at Tor slightly delay my reading of this book. Still, that's entirely in character for Brandon Sanderson - always with overdue books. Not like that nice reliable George R.R. Martin, or Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch - now those are guys who know how to get a book done on time. Some people do need to get a bit of perspective. From RJ's death to the release of AMoL, less time will have passed than passed between AFFC and ADWD. In that time, we've had TGS, TOM, WOK, M:AoL, and others. That's an impressive workrate. It is unfortunate that they have had to delay. But these things happen. It is not unreasonable. It is not a significant delay. It is merely that this work required more work than was anticipated. They thought they could get it done this year. They couldn't. RJ thought he could be done in three books total, and I think we all know how that one turned out. Perspective. A slight delay, nothing more. I, for one, have no problems with them taking the extra time to do it right.

 

Excellent points across the board. I remember when RJ died, and remembered meeting him on the KoD tour (who was quite gracious, along with Harriet). I remember thinking that the WOT would end with his death, and we would never get a resolution to the series. We are indeed fortunate that we are getting a conclusion to the WOT, and I think it's a point that's been overshadowed on this topic. While I'm disappointed about the additional delay, it is only a few weeks more and we will still get a fine conclusion to this series.

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I think a big part of the problem here is in the tone with which the release date was given. There is an air to the press release of it being great news that Tor is happy to give us--which, in truth, it is, given we might not have ever gotten the book at all--but the problem is that when this release of information also involves the reveal of a delay from previous estimations of the release date offered by Brandon (on top of other, previous delays) then the chipper tone comes a bit like a slap to the face.

 

To be clear I do not think they meant this inference. My reading of the situation is that they were genuinely excited to put the release date out there and didn't realise (or perhaps have time to realise) the implications of the release. So yeah, I get the upset... I myself found it more than a little tactless, and I'm actually ecstatic about the delay. But I genuinely don't think they meant it to be, so maybe its time we simply forgave and let go of that particular aspect.

 

The rest of the anger I think stems from the way this is being stylized as a delay purely for editing--into which people are reading 'typo correction' and 'continuity'. Again I understand this perception given its essentially what Brandon and Peter have laid down as the reason for the delay--both in stating that the delay is caused by Harriet wishing to take more time on the editing, and their prior establishment of exactly what is done during the editing stage. And I understand the anger--if that were the only thing that needed to be done, a whole year shouldn't be set aside (certainly TofM showed more than two months was needed, but not a year).

 

I don't think that is all that needs to be done. In fact, according to a recent email I recieved from Peter, both he and Brandon are aware of the vast amount of issues that are singularily in Brandon's domain to deal with which would dramatically extend the revision period--especially if Brandon is not doing them, thereby forcing Harriet to, as seems to be the inference. I have more detailed thoughts over this, yet I'm still stumbling over Brandon's blog post on this issue, and have as yet to resolve a final position.

 

All I will say is that Brandon's blogged cry of 'don't blame me' troubles me deeply. In point of fact, until Brandon disavowed responsibility I hailed him for doing this, especially for the fan rage it was bound to draw. A man who would bear anything for the sake of the integrity of the work is the man Brandon represented himself to be in the early days--the man who won both my deep respect and loyalty.

 

I need to think more on this, clearly. Peter, if you have anything to say, I would welcome it. I dislike suffering a crisis of faith in Brandon's handling of the Wheel, and would welcome reasurance.

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I don't, for an instant, believe that anyone involved with marketing A Memory of light wants to miss the Christmas buying season. But ...

 

A number of factors are at work here.

 

First, from what has been said by those involved, the entire production process is different this time. The previous two books there was a lot of concurrency. Sanderson would write a chunk of the book and send it to Charleston. Charleston would edit and suggest or mandate changes and send it back to Sanderson. Sanderson would send off the next hunk and do some or all of the revisions on the first chunk. Wash, rinse, repeat. Editing occurred concurrently with writing.

 

By the time Sanderson finished one of those books it was already partially or mostly edited. Turn-around time was minimized.

 

This time, supposedly, nothing got sent to Charleston until the entire first draft was complete. We don't know how the edits and revisions and suggestions and mandates are flowing back to Brandon. In pieces? All-at-once like the manuscript was submitted? At any rate, there was no concurrency this time around. Writing and editing became discrete processes. Inevitably that will consume more time.

 

In the end, all either side owes the other is consistent fairness.

 

Sadly, Robert Jordan and Harriet Mac Dougal squandered all the reader's goodwill over the last 17 years through sheer brick-headed inconsistency. Unfairly wasting the reader's time and money. Jordan could have rewritten and polished Crossroads of Twilight 27 times and it still would have been utter dreck.

 

Somewhere around here there is a thread about "If you could, what would you change about books 7-10?" That's pretty simple, reduce them to the 2 chapters they really deserved and get on with the story.

 

There used to be well over a dozen well prepared and rigorously maintained websites devoted to The Wheel of Time. Today I doubt there are four. A couple are still around in Archival form. People who are treated fairly do not invest gobs of their own time and money in helping promote interest in something and then just walk away for no reason. They walk away because they finally saw enough to convince them that they were being taken advantage of, used and abused. And, these were some of the most diehard fans. If they hadn't been they never would have started WoT sites to begin with.

 

So, Jordan, the man and the author, Team Jordan, TOR and anybody involved with producing the series, merits and will get no slack from those who have read and supported them for over 20 years. They no longer deserve it.

Edited by Bob T Dwarf
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both he and Brandon are aware of the vast amount of issues that are singularily in Brandon's domain to deal with which would dramatically extend the revision period--especially if Brandon is not doing them, thereby forcing Harriet to

If I was unclear on Twitter, let me be clear here. These things you say are "singularily in Brandon's domain" are not. They are Harriet's and Team Jordan's domain. It is Brandon's job to write the best book he can as if he were the only writer. Then the revision process back-and-forth gets it into the shape Harriet and Team Jordan require. That has been the process from day one with the other two books.

 

As I said earlier:

 

When you're an author working on your own book in your own universe, you make the final decision on everything: characters, continuity, how the magic works, geography, etc. When you're working in someone else's universe, you don't. Someone else decides, but you have to write the changes because you're still the writer, and the editor or whoever owns the series is not the writer. That takes a LOT of back-and-forth. It's not a question of just fixing grammar and spelling, not by a long shot. No one expects Brandon to be close to as good as Robert Jordan on the second draft, and asking Brandon to be able to do ten drafts on his own before sending it to Team Jordan would also be an unrealistic expectation of what working in someone else's universe is like.

 

By the way, in August 2010 I personally put in 63 hours of overtime in 8 working days trying to get TOWERS out, and it still had lots of issues. None of us involved, or our families, can handle that again or want that result again.

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Fact is, no release date was ever promised. We never got an official release date until this announcement. Brandon was just giving his best guess as to when it would come out. He never made any promises.

 

Given the circumstances, I'm grateful for these last 3 books regardless of release dates.

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Eh, I wouldn't get hung up on saying Brandon never promised, because you'll be able to find at least one time he did promise. I found a tweet from March 2011 where he said "sometime next year, I promise." (Now everyone's going to jump all over that—if I didn't post it though, someone else would have.) That was a best guess on Brandon's part, and he hadn't started writing the book then.

 

[EDIT: The thread seems pretty stable now, and I think it's wisest for me to stop talking while it's in this shape.]

Edited by Peter Ahlstrom
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(Now everyone's going to jump all over that—if I didn't post it through, someone else would have.)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. :tongue:

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Eh, I wouldn't get hung up on saying Brandon never promised, because you'll be able to find at least one time he did promise. I found a tweet from March 2011 where he said "sometime next year, I promise." (Now everyone's going to jump all over that—if I didn't post it through, someone else would have.) That was a best guess on Brandon's part, and he hadn't started writing the book then.

 

Nah...I don't think so - about jumping all over anyone, I mean.

 

I cant speak for everybody, but as I have said, it was never the broken "promise" of this November that bugged me, more the way it was handled (not on Brandon's part) the fact that too many chefs seem to be in the kitchen and how Tor seems to see this as more their last chance to capitalize on WOT where we see it as art - RJ's final piece to his wonderful story. You grouch a day or so, then move on, getting over it, appreciating everyones hard work, and looking forward to January of 2013.

 

At least, that's MY approach :)

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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I don't, for an instant, believe that anyone involved with marketing A Memory of light wants to miss the Christmas buying season. But ...

 

A number of factors are at work here.

 

First, from what has been said by those involved, the entire production process is different this time. The previous two books there was a lot of concurrency. Sanderson would write a chunk of the book and send it to Charleston. Charleston would edit and suggest or mandate changes and send it back to Sanderson. Sanderson would send off the next hunk and do some or all of the revisions on the first chunk. Wash, rinse, repeat. Editing occurred concurrently with writing.

 

By the time Sanderson finished one of those books it was already partially or mostly edited. Turn-around time was minimized.

 

This time, supposedly, nothing got sent to Charleston until the entire first draft was complete. We don't know how the edits and revisions and suggestions and mandates are flowing back to Brandon. In pieces? All-at-once like the manuscript was submitted? At any rate, there was no concurrency this time around. Writing and editing became discrete processes. Inevitably that will consume more time.

 

In the end, all either side owes the other is consistent fairness.

 

Sadly, Robert Jordan and Harriet Mac Dougal squandered all the reader's goodwill over the last 17 years through sheer brick-headed inconsistency. Unfairly wasting the reader's time and money. Jordan could have rewritten and polished Crossroads of Twilight 27 times and it still would have been utter dreck.

 

Somewhere around here there is a thread about "If you could, what would you change about books 7-10?" That's pretty simple, reduce them to the 2 chapters they really deserved and get on with the story.

 

There used to be well over a dozen well prepared and rigorously maintained websites devoted to The Wheel of Time. Today I doubt there are four. A couple are still around in Archival form. People who are treated fairly do not invest gobs of their own time and money in helping promote interest in something and then just walk away for no reason. They walk away because they finally saw enough to convince them that they were being taken advantage of, used and abused. And, these were some of the most diehard fans. If they hadn't been they never would have started WoT sites to begin with.

 

So, Jordan, the man and the author, Team Jordan, TOR and anybody involved with producing the series, merits and will get no slack from those who have read and supported them for over 20 years. They no longer deserve it.

 

That seems a bit harsh.

 

 

Fish

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(Now everyone's going to jump all over that—if I didn't post it through, someone else would have.)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. :tongue:

Oh yeah, I was just about to do it myself. I can't keep as close a watch on the boards as I used to (you know that from the way I skipped out on you, and I'm sorry about that BTW), but I do follow this thread. I did after all say before that I don't want to, but driven to it I would hunt those Twits down. There's also this that I've been able to find, from much later (in the writing process):

I remember a couple of others, but I think that hardly matters.

 

Anyhow, since I'm already posting, and I don't think many here have seen it, here's something else Brandon had to say:

 

Finally, this is the one and only time I'll address the marketing issue, because I don't believe it was a driving force behind this decision. I think the wrong questions are being asked. AMoL isn't the only product Tor planed to sell this year. The right questions is: Does postponing its release increase overall sells or decrease them? That is, of all the projects nearing a finish late this year, would AMoL suffer greatly (in comparison) from being pushed back after the holidays? Would others profit from not going head to head with it? Honestly, I don't know, and quite frankly I don't think it matters. I'm firm in my assessment stated above, since after all there's been sufficient 'foreshadowing' that Harriet really wants this one to be perfect, and plans to take her time to make is so.

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