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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Release Date Announced: Jan. 8, 2013


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@Bob T: Wow, I thought I was bitter but you are def upset. And to be honest after reading some of your thoughts I do have to agree with you on some points. But the irony is that at this point no matter what happens we will still go out and buy the book (hell, in my case the audio book will fly at about $60 I think).

 

@Luckers: I have to say that after reading your thoughts it had an effect of calming me down a bit. You usually have something good to say and this time it was on the money again. I agree that the way it was handled might have a lot to do with the reaction of fans (it def has something to do with my reaction). In any event, I would like to hear more of your thought on the subject.

 

@Fisher: I have to admit that I envy you a bit. I tried to put the my unhappiness behind me but for some reason I only find myself with a numb feeling and bad aftertaste. I don't know if I can even get excited for the release. I'll still read it (listen to it) and all, but there is def negative affiliation for me, at this time at least.

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But again, it has absolutely nothing to do with earning more money. They're losing money to do it this way.

 

I think we'll have more clarity on the new release date on Monday, as I discussed here. There are important decisions being made here, and they're decisions that will impact the series forever. A couple of months won't make a difference in the end, and if anything, it gives the Team more time to make sure the book is as good as it can be. We all saw how fan impatience affected TOM.

 

Terez,

The link you posted has nothing to do with providing clarity to information that will be posted Monday. It is just that idiotic rant by Leigh Buttler that compares WoT fans to petulant, whiney children. Just because some have rightfully expressed their displeasure that they are unhappy that a book they have been waiting patiently for years is being delayed by three more months for no apparent reason.

 

If you are Leigh Buttler I apologize! Not for calling the rant idiotic, because it was, but for doing it here, because I respect most of what you post.

 

I hope TOR or someone does clarify to the WoT fan base why they are waiting 3, 4, or 5 months longer than they need. Maybe there is more going on than we are aware of, but there is no way you can convince me it will take 13 months to edt and publish AMoL.

 

That is what fans are ticked off about! And it is clear that even Brandon doesn't think it should take that long.

 

Hopefully, you just provided the wrong link or my smart phone is linking me to the wrong link.

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But again, it has absolutely nothing to do with earning more money. They're losing money to do it this way.

 

I think we'll have more clarity on the new release date on Monday, as I discussed here. There are important decisions being made here, and they're decisions that will impact the series forever. A couple of months won't make a difference in the end, and if anything, it gives the Team more time to make sure the book is as good as it can be. We all saw how fan impatience affected TOM.

 

Terez,

The link you posted has nothing to do with providing clarity to information that will be posted Monday.

It should be a direct link to my post. If it doesn't work, see my post @233. Perhaps this will address your concern about the extra time. Perhaps not. I suppose it depends on what we feel is important. For the record, I don't care about cover art...but I do care about matters of thematic importance, and I think this is one of them. Also, it's just a theory. We will find out tomorrow.

 

It is just that idiotic rant by Leigh Buttler that compares WoT fans to petulant, whiney children. Just because some have rightfully expressed their displeasure that they are unhappy that a book they have been waiting patiently for years is being delayed by three more months for no apparent reason.

She's right, IMO. It's just a few months. After all these years, we can live with it. Our impatience is fleeting, but the book is forever. It's a little insulting to suggest that they're milking us for more money (not saying you said this) when the evidence suggests they will actually lose money. And what other nefarious reason could there be? Obviously everyone on the Team is dedicated to doing this right, so why would they just randomly delay it to 'string us along'? It doesn't make any sense.

 

If you are Leigh Buttler I apologize! Not for calling the rant idiotic, because it was, but for doing it here, because I respect most of what you post.

I am not Leigh. :myrddraal:

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I hope TOR or someone does clarify to the WoT fan base why they are waiting 3, 4, or 5 months longer than they need. Maybe there is more going on than we are aware of, but there is no way you can convince me it will take 13 months to edt and publish AMoL.

 

As has been explained numerous times in the thread the second rough draft hasn't even been turned in. Not sure how the editing could take 13 months when we are almost in March and the revision process has barely started. The correct reasons for the delay have been giving in this thread and the cover art process could be another piece to the puzzle.

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Second draft has been turned in few days back..Brandon works really quickly.

 

Wow, didn't see that. Thanks xxx...

 

Brandon Sanderson ‏ @BrandSanderson

Hey, all. AMOL revision is all done and sent off. The next draft is the big one, where I put in Harriet's comments. That can take a while

 

Either way my point was we are still doing revisions. I think some of the way the announcements have been made have def led to confusion.

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But again, it has absolutely nothing to do with earning more money. They're losing money to do it this way.

 

I think we'll have more clarity on the new release date on Monday, as I discussed here. There are important decisions being made here, and they're decisions that will impact the series forever. A couple of months won't make a difference in the end, and if anything, it gives the Team more time to make sure the book is as good as it can be. We all saw how fan impatience affected TOM.

 

Terez,

The link you posted has nothing to do with providing clarity to information that will be posted Monday.

It should be a direct link to my post. If it doesn't work, see my post @233. Perhaps this will address your concern about the extra time. Perhaps not. I suppose it depends on what we feel is important. For the record, I don't care about cover art...but I do care about matters of thematic importance, and I think this is one of them. Also, it's just a theory. We will find out tomorrow.

 

It is just that idiotic rant by Leigh Buttler that compares WoT fans to petulant, whiney children. Just because some have rightfully expressed their displeasure that they are unhappy that a book they have been waiting patiently for years is being delayed by three more months for no apparent reason.

She's right, IMO. It's just a few months. After all these years, we can live with it. Our impatience is fleeting, but the book is forever. It's a little insulting to suggest that they're milking us for more money (not saying you said this) when the evidence suggests they will actually lose money. And what other nefarious reason could there be? Obviously everyone on the Team is dedicated to doing this right, so why would they just randomly delay it to 'string us along'? It doesn't make any sense.

 

If you are Leigh Buttler I apologize! Not for calling the rant idiotic, because it was, but for doing it here, because I respect most of what you post.

I am not Leigh. :myrddraal:

 

I still disagree with this. Not to simply be argumentative, but because I believe it. To say that marketing and profit play NO part in the release of such a product is of course silly. I also don't agree that the absence of a ''Holiday Season Release'' hurts them. Actually - and I have worked in the industry/retail - many times Christmas Sales and Holiday Discounts LOWER profit on products. For the manufacturer, I mean (in this case TOR) not for the resailer. Also, this is a product where no matter WHEN it was released, it would be bought. Also, Tor has themselves announced they plan on ''Pre-release'' merchandise to be sold leading up to AMOL. However, to suggest that is is an evil conspiracy designed by those who are plotting to deprive us of ''our'' book for the sole purpose of milking and squezing every last red cent out of AMOL...No, lol, I don't see it that way at all.

 

As far as Leigh or anyone else associated in ANY WAY with WOT/Team Jordan/Tor etc to go public and chastise those who expressed disapointment in the MANNER in which she (And many others, not just her) chose to do so...well, it grates. We are the customer, those who WORK and spend our MONEY for years and years on these books. Who have been so loyal and patient. Saved up for the road trips to the conventions. Prayed for RJ, and then Harriet and have been thankful that we will see an end...Well, I think - and I do not know the woman - that she may regret that her attack did not DISTINGUISH.

 

Because, I agree there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in a disapointed fan who - as I have tried to - post their disapointment in a civil manner and list reasons why they have questions about the decision and those who:

 

"ZOMG YALL!!! Those DIRTY BASTARDS!!!---This SUX!!!...THEY Sux!!!...They ONLY CARE ABOUT THE MONEY!!!...We are being ABUSED, DOOOOD!...Its OUR BOOK!!! WANTITNOWNOWNOWNOWNOW!''

 

Big difference.

 

But, those who are given the pulpit, the forum to address ALL who may be disapointed, MAY wish to be more selective.

 

Or they may not.

 

This is just my opinion.

 

 

Fish

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Leigh Butler has written enough on the WoT in her reread, her commentary, her news bits and her interviews to equal several volumes of this series. She has also criticized countless aspects of the books and still managed to remain friends with Team Jordan. Why should she not be entitled to voice her opinion on this?

 

 

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Leigh Butler has written enough on the WoT in her reread, her commentary, her news bits and her interviews to equal several volumes of this series. She has also criticized countless aspects of the books and still managed to remain friends with Team Jordan. Why should she not be entitled to voice her opinion on this?

 

 

Oh, she definitely SHOULD. We ALL should, Imo. I DO think though, that sometimes, we all could benefit from considering HOW we go about expressing ourselves. That's all.

 

I didn't mean to imply any different. There is certainly no cause for any wannabe White Knighting here, lol ;)

 

 

Fish

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I still disagree with this. Not to simply be argumentative, but because I believe it. To say that marketing and profit play NO part in the release of such a product is of course silly. I also don't agree that the absence of a ''Holiday Season Release'' hurts them. Actually - and I have worked in the industry/retail - many times Christmas Sales and Holiday Discounts LOWER profit on products. For the manufacturer, I mean (in this case TOR) not for the resailer.

 

Actually it's the exact opposite. Tor has a fixed price they sell the book for, whatever sales retailers put on it come out of their profits not Tor's. In store Holiday Sales don't effect the publisher at all except for selling more books.

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I still disagree with this. Not to simply be argumentative, but because I believe it. To say that marketing and profit play NO part in the release of such a product is of course silly.

You need to tell us HOW it's supposed to make more money to delay it.

 

I also don't agree that the absence of a ''Holiday Season Release'' hurts them. Actually - and I have worked in the industry/retail - many times Christmas Sales and Holiday Discounts LOWER profit on products.

They lower retail prices, which doesn't affect how much money the publisher gets at all. So if it's supposed to lower profit for Tor, then you need to explain how. People in the publishing business have disagreed. Are you in the publishing business?

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I still disagree with this. Not to simply be argumentative, but because I believe it. To say that marketing and profit play NO part in the release of such a product is of course silly. I also don't agree that the absence of a ''Holiday Season Release'' hurts them. Actually - and I have worked in the industry/retail - many times Christmas Sales and Holiday Discounts LOWER profit on products. For the manufacturer, I mean (in this case TOR) not for the resailer.

 

Actually it's the exact opposite. Tor has a fixed price they sell the book for, whatever sales retailers put on it come out of their profits not Tor's. In store Holiday Sales don't effect the publisher at all except for selling more books.

 

That's what I meant. I got bassackwards. Im sorry. I was thinking one thing and typing another. Yes, you are correct. The MERCHANT buys at a fixed price then has leewaay on discretionary pricing - most often seen with hardbacks where you can usually get them for a fraction of the initially-advertised cost if you wait just a short time.

 

 

Fish

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I still disagree with this. Not to simply be argumentative, but because I believe it. To say that marketing and profit play NO part in the release of such a product is of course silly.

You need to tell us HOW it's supposed to make more money to delay it.

 

I also don't agree that the absence of a ''Holiday Season Release'' hurts them. Actually - and I have worked in the industry/retail - many times Christmas Sales and Holiday Discounts LOWER profit on products.

They lower retail prices, which doesn't affect how much money the publisher gets at all. So if it's supposed to lower profit for Tor, then you need to explain how. People in the publishing business have disagreed. Are you in the publishing business?

 

 

Well, for one thing, last week Tor announced that they will be selling "lead-up" merchandise to AMOL later this year. It rubbed me the wrong way to see how commercialized something I have such an artistic attatchment to is becoming. I certainly support Tors right to do so, though.

 

 

Fish

 

Edit. Didn't see your question. Sorry. No, I am not a publisher. I have worked in the industry however, and it makes me sad to see how currently rife with dissension and disagreement it is on so MANY issues. But THAT is an entirely different topic.

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. It's a little insulting to suggest that they're milking us for more money (not saying you said this) when the evidence suggests they will actually lose money. And what other nefarious reason could there be?

 

Tell me where I suggested they were trying to milk us for money. I don't have any idea what the delay is for and that is what I have the problem with! The only thing I know is it isn't for editing (i don't care how many posters say it is, I would have to be retarded to believed they need over a year for editing and publishing).

 

If there is some rational reason then they should just say so. If there is a good reason for it then I'm fine with the delay, but right now I don't have one, because they haven't provided one.

 

Heck if BS thinks the delay is too long, then it is too long.

 

Maybe I'm tech stupid, but I have no idea what @233 is.

 

By the way, I don't think when they release AMoL will alter how many copies are sold our how much they are sold for. The readers that made it through books 1 - 13 WILL BUY AMoL whenever it comes out. And new readers won't buy book 14 of a 3 to 4 million word series.

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I hope TOR or someone does clarify to the WoT fan base why they are waiting 3, 4, or 5 months longer than they need. Maybe there is more going on than we are aware of, but there is no way you can convince me it will take 13 months to edt and publish AMoL.

 

As has been explained numerous times in the thread the second rough draft hasn't even been turned in. Not sure how the editing could take 13 months when we are almost in March and the revision process has barely started. The correct reasons for the delay have been giving in this thread and the cover art process could be another piece to the puzzle.

 

I must have missed the release from TOR, team Jordan, or BS saying why the release date is so far off. Everything in this thread is just fan conjecture, speculation and opinion.

 

Editing started in December when the first draft was turned in. So 13 months is accurate.

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. It's a little insulting to suggest that they're milking us for more money (not saying you said this) when the evidence suggests they will actually lose money. And what other nefarious reason could there be?

Tell me where I suggested they were trying to milk us for money.

 

Maybe I'm tech stupid, but I have no idea what @233 is.

That's the number of my comment.

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I hope TOR or someone does clarify to the WoT fan base why they are waiting 3, 4, or 5 months longer than they need. Maybe there is more going on than we are aware of, but there is no way you can convince me it will take 13 months to edt and publish AMoL.

 

As has been explained numerous times in the thread the second rough draft hasn't even been turned in. Not sure how the editing could take 13 months when we are almost in March and the revision process has barely started. The correct reasons for the delay have been giving in this thread and the cover art process could be another piece to the puzzle.

 

I must have missed the release from TOR, team Jordan, or BS saying why the release date is so far off. Everything in this thread is just fan conjecture, speculation and opinion.

 

Editing started in December when the first draft was turned in. So 13 months is accurate.

 

You mean like when they told us this...

Secondly, Harriet is very, VERY worried about getting this book right. It's the last book in the series. There are no chances to change things after this, and revising a book like this takes time. Harriet would probably prefer even more space than this publication date gives us. She also isn't capable of pulling the long hours she might once have pulled. (And she shouldn't be expected to.)

 

It's not all on Harriet, though, not by a mile. I turned in a 360,000-word book. That's 20% longer than what they wanted, and that means each step of editing and production will require 20% more time than they had set aside. In addition, while I've set my own deadlines, I've come right up against them and (in a few cases) tiptoed across. For example, instead of sending a revised book at the end of December, I only had a first draft. That's the length pushing me back and making me revise expectations.

 

I realize that all you care about is getting your book, and this sounds like a lot of excuses. But here's the thing. You'll get the book when Harriet is ready to give it to you. Not before. If this were just me, I could work a big pile of 16-hour days and get it to you in the fall. But it's not just me, and beyond that, the last time I did that (on TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT, which went through eleven drafts) we ended up with a pile of typos and wore Harriet out so much she said she didn't recover for well over six months.

 

I sincerely thought that we'd be releasing the book this fall. January 8th was a surprise to me when they told me. However, Harriet picked the last possible week the book could reasonably come out, because she wants as much time as possible to edit it.

 

That announcement came after BS addressed the issues with the first two books, changed his writing process and said they could not make the same mistakes and had to get aMoL right. Peter has posted numerous times in this thread discussing the situation as well. So no it isn't fan conjecture, they have made the reasons for the delay perfectly clear. As for the work still to be done there is a reason why it is called editing and revisions. As has been explained the way Brandon writes results in drafts that are far rougher than the average author. RJ would finish 12 drafts before the editing process would even start. Brandon has only a few days ago finished the second very rough draft. In the quote above he said the next draft is the "big one" so in actuality the real work for the team is only just beginning.

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I hope TOR or someone does clarify to the WoT fan base why they are waiting 3, 4, or 5 months longer than they need. Maybe there is more going on than we are aware of, but there is no way you can convince me it will take 13 months to edt and publish AMoL.

 

As has been explained numerous times in the thread the second rough draft hasn't even been turned in. Not sure how the editing could take 13 months when we are almost in March and the revision process has barely started. The correct reasons for the delay have been giving in this thread and the cover art process could be another piece to the puzzle.

 

I must have missed the release from TOR, team Jordan, or BS saying why the release date is so far off. Everything in this thread is just fan conjecture, speculation and opinion.

 

Editing started in December when the first draft was turned in. So 13 months is accurate.

 

You mean like when they told us this...

Secondly, Harriet is very, VERY worried about getting this book right. It's the last book in the series. There are no chances to change things after this, and revising a book like this takes time. Harriet would probably prefer even more space than this publication date gives us. She also isn't capable of pulling the long hours she might once have pulled. (And she shouldn't be expected to.)

 

It's not all on Harriet, though, not by a mile. I turned in a 360,000-word book. That's 20% longer than what they wanted, and that means each step of editing and production will require 20% more time than they had set aside. In addition, while I've set my own deadlines, I've come right up against them and (in a few cases) tiptoed across. For example, instead of sending a revised book at the end of December, I only had a first draft. That's the length pushing me back and making me revise expectations.

 

I realize that all you care about is getting your book, and this sounds like a lot of excuses. But here's the thing. You'll get the book when Harriet is ready to give it to you. Not before. If this were just me, I could work a big pile of 16-hour days and get it to you in the fall. But it's not just me, and beyond that, the last time I did that (on TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT, which went through eleven drafts) we ended up with a pile of typos and wore Harriet out so much she said she didn't recover for well over six months.

 

I sincerely thought that we'd be releasing the book this fall. January 8th was a surprise to me when they told me. However, Harriet picked the last possible week the book could reasonably come out, because she wants as much time as possible to edit it.

 

That announcement came after BS addressed the issues with the first two books, changed his writing process and said they could not make the same mistakes and had to get aMoL right. Peter has posted numerous times in this thread discussing the situation as well. So no it isn't fan conjecture, they have made the reasons for the delay perfectly clear. As for the work still to be done there is a reason why it is called editing and revisions. As has been explained the way Brandon writes results in drafts that are far rougher than the average author. RJ would finish 12 drafts before the editing process would even start. Brandon has only a few days ago finished the second very rough draft. In the quote above he said the next draft is the "big one" so in actuality the real work for the team is only just beginning.

 

 

I read that entire blog post by BS and if you really read it, you can tell BS doesn't understand what the delay is and is just trying to explain why it could possibly take such a ridiculously long time to edit the book and putting a positive spin on a situation that he doesn't agree with.

 

How do you know the 2nd draft BS turned in was VERY rough draft?

 

Look I can understand why Harriet wants to get this right, but she is allotting basically four times the amount of time she spent editing the last two books. At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns, where continuous tinkering isn't going to dramatically change the quality of the book.

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I read that entire blog post by BS and if you really read it, you can tell BS doesn't understand what the delay is and is just trying to explain why it could possibly take such a ridiculously long time to edit the book and putting a positive spin on a situation that he doesn't agree with.

I grok what you are reading into it, but I think it's probably more to do with him knowing how freaky WoT fans get about release dates, and wanting to preempt them with an aggressive tone. That does come across as Brandon being unhappy with the release date, but I think that's just the surface. He put it off on Harriet like he puts everything off on Harriet. I'm not saying that's a bad thing—there are good reasons for that, namely that Brandon is the one actually dealing with us most of the time—I'm just saying it's par for the course.

 

How do you know the 2nd draft BS turned in was VERY rough draft?

Because he says so. Or at least, he says that the second revision will take a great deal more time than the first one did. He's written a lot about his revision process. The first time he writes something, he generally leaves many gaps where he knows the writing could use a lot of improvement. Then he goes back in his first revision and cleans it up. Then he sends it off to the Team, and Harriet targets the prose while Maria and Alan target the continuity. That revision involves a lot of back-and-forth.

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Good call Terez. It of course makes the interview quote you provided at least partially relevant to the discussion.

 

Interview: Nov 14th, 1998

TPOD Signing Report - Matthew Hunter (Paraphrased)

 

Someone asked how he chose the cover artist, and we got a nice long spiel with some previously unknown information. Jordan and his wife went through bookstores picking out books based on their (if they liked it) cover art and finding out who did the cover. It came down to two artists, Darrell K. Sweet and Michael Whelan. The deciding factor was that Whelan wants the manuscript to read for a year before he will deliver a cover, and they just couldn't wait that long.

They are apparently considering a later reissue of the entire series with different covers, perhaps by Whelan, once it is complete.

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And obviously he cut them a deal since he will have 9 months at most to complete it.

I think that might have something to do with A Memory of Light being the final book to one of the three most applauded fantasy series of the last three decades :tongue:

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Well, in the world of cover artists, if anyone can compete with that reputation, it's Whelan. He's done the covers for many of the most successful fantasy books of the last few decades. And, with all respect to DKS, his art is near-universally loved.

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