Matrim Cauthon's death?

[Alkazor]

I finally got my girlfriend to read the series for the first time, she's on book 3 and loves it.

 

Anyway, after Mat's healed (the part she's on) Siuan Sanche mentions something offhand, that he reminds her of her father...

 

Ch 20 (TDR)

"He was a gambler and good for nothing, but he died pulling children out of a burning house."

 

At the end of book 13, Olver goes running into a city which appears to be on fire...

 

I noticed a few people on the boards have been speculating that some of the prophecies are actually referring to Cairhein... I couldn't find anything like this anywhere else... my thoughts on this aren't really fully developed yet. Anyone else have any?

 

PS: I haven't been on in a while, so if I'm doing something wrong, let me know.

[metalisticpain]

Mat will survive the end of the series. Jordan planned outrigger novels of Mat and Tuon (hate her empress name) going back to seanchan to reclaim it.

[Duskfire]

Unfortunately metali has it right; RJ all but confirmed that he was planning on an outrigger novel involving Mat and Tuon after TG. I have a small hope though that he was misguiding people; i.e Tuon has a son and calls him Mat, or Tuon takes Mats with her, etc etc :P

 

Out of the three ta`veren, I always thought Mat was the one most likely to die. he has alot of link with death, with the whole Jak o Shadows thing and the willingness to put himself into danger to save others.

[spoke]

I finally got my girlfriend to read the series for the first time, she's on book 3 and loves it.

 

Anyway, after Mat's healed (the part she's on) Siuan Sanche mentions something offhand, that he reminds her of her father...

 

Ch 20 (TDR)

"He was a gambler and good for nothing, but he died pulling children out of a burning house."

 

At the end of book 13, Olver goes running into a city which appears to be on fire...

 

I noticed a few people on the boards have been speculating that some of the prophecies are actually referring to Cairhein... I couldn't find anything like this anywhere else... my thoughts on this aren't really fully developed yet. Anyone else have any?

 

PS: I haven't been on in a while, so if I'm doing something wrong, let me know.

 

actually it was her uncle not her father.

[Ryrin]

I finally got my girlfriend to read the series for the first time, she's on book 3 and loves it.

 

Anyway, after Mat's healed (the part she's on) Siuan Sanche mentions something offhand, that he reminds her of her father...

 

Ch 20 (TDR)

"He was a gambler and good for nothing, but he died pulling children out of a burning house."

 

At the end of book 13, Olver goes running into a city which appears to be on fire...

 

I noticed a few people on the boards have been speculating that some of the prophecies are actually referring to Cairhein... I couldn't find anything like this anywhere else... my thoughts on this aren't really fully developed yet. Anyone else have any?

 

PS: I haven't been on in a while, so if I'm doing something wrong, let me know.

 

 

 

Siuan was speaking about her uncle (at the fire-comparing him to Mat) and then asks Matt "will you be there when the flames are high?" They were speaking about the Horn and that Matt will be the one to blow it at the last battle. Matt basically says he's no hero but he will do what he has to do.

 

Matt lives.

[Jak o' the Shadows]

You can't keep that boy down!

 

Mat shall live!

[Durinax]

actually that may have changed, or been a red herring. Which I hope.

[Suttree]

actually that may have changed, or been a red herring. Which I hope.

 

Not sure how the Outriggers could be considered a red herring? Additionally we know Mat surviving is what RJ had in his notes. BS would not have the leeway to change something that major.

[Durinax]

actually that may have changed, or been a red herring. Which I hope.

 

Not sure how the Outriggers could be considered a red herring? Additionally we know Mat surviving is what RJ had in his notes. BS would not have the leeway to change something that major.

I dont know the exact semantics of how he said he is doing that. did he say something like "I am thinking of..." or "There may possibly be...."

 

I know if I was in RJ's shoes and wanted to screw with people I would have said something about outriggers with characters I meant to kill off and said I was thinking of doing this or that.

[Suttree]

actually that may have changed, or been a red herring. Which I hope.

 

Not sure how the Outriggers could be considered a red herring? Additionally we know Mat surviving is what RJ had in his notes. BS would not have the leeway to change something that major.

I dont know the exact semantics of how he said he is doing that. did he say something like "I am thinking of..." or "There may possibly be...."

 

I know if I was in RJ's shoes and wanted to screw with people I would have said something about outriggers with characters I meant to kill off and said I was thinking of doing this or that.

 

Interview: Nov 8th, 2006

Robert Jordan's Blog: A Little Update

So there you have it. Oh, finishing A Memory of Light, of course, and getting started on Mat and Tuon, and some others, five to ten years after the Last Battle.

 

Tom mentions that Jim also planned to eventually write some books taking place about 10 years after A Memory of Light that would mostly focus on Mat and Tuon [the books known as the outrigger novels].

 

Interview: Aug 9th, 2008

Rolling up the Wheel of Time Panel, WorldCon, Denver, CO

The Wheel of Time turns. However, Tom mentions at this point that the planned Mat–Tuon trilogy to follow the series was already under contract.

 

Interview: Nov 14th, 2008

Hero of Ages Signing Report - Ted Herman

Question

 

Will there be prequels or books about the Age of Legends?

Brandon Sanderson

 

Brandon stated he didn't want WOT to be like Star Wars with books telling scattered stories, but would like to do the prequels that RJ planned about Tam and Moiraine, and possibly the outriggers about Mat and Tuon as well (but not the other planned series, Infinity of Heaven).

 

That is just a small sample, there are many more. Mat and Tuon in the Outriggers go back to clean up Seanchan 5-10 after the LB.

[tkroll]

I think Matt should die the way Tyrion Lannister wanted to die in the Song of Ice and Fire series...

 

I think Matt will survive the series. I am wondering wasn't there a ter angreal that could suspend chance though? Taken from the White Tower in between the second and third book? That might be a serious problem for Matt or any of the others.

[startrek41]

The issue was at the time, should they let Mat die so they can pick someone else to blow the horn. She read him as someone who would be their at the darkest hour so she let him live.

 

 

Mat has died -hanged on the Tree- cpr (saved by rand)

Mat was banfired (saved by rand) rewind from fate of dieing had dog slober on his arm would of killed him.

[Majsju]

The issue was at the time, should they let Mat die so they can pick someone else to blow the horn. She read him as someone who would be their at the darkest hour so she let him live.

 

 

Mat has died -hanged on the Tree- cpr (saved by rand)

Mat was banfired (saved by rand) rewind from fate of dieing had dog slober on his arm would of killed him.

 

Mat did not die when he was hanged in Rhuidean.

He was certainly not Balefired by Rand (the Darkhound that drooled on Mats arm was).

 

Mat has died once, when he was struck by Rahvins lightning in Caemlyn. Then brought back when Rand Balefired Rahvin.

[Taryn]

I agree that the darkhound slobber doesn't count, because althought it would have killed him, it hadn't happened by the time the slobber never existed (after Rand's Balefire)

 

Maybe this is a dumb newbie type of question, but do we have any 'hard' proof that Mat didn't technically die when he was hung in Rhuidean?

[Suttree]

I agree that the darkhound slobber doesn't count, because althought it would have killed him, it hadn't happened by the time the slobber never existed (after Rand's Balefire)

 

Maybe this is a dumb newbie type of question, but do we have any 'hard' proof that Mat didn't technically die when he was hung in Rhuidean?

 

He wasn't dead in Ruidean. The time in Caemlyn when hit by Rahvin was when he died.

 

Interview: Jan 16th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

Tim Kington

My friend Josh and I had been talking about how Rand and Mat spent a week in Rhuidean, and so he asked how long Mat was hanging.

Robert Jordan

Long enough.

JOSH

Long enough for what?

ROBERT JORDAN

Long enough to be ALMOST dead.

TIM KINGTON

(Emphasis mine) I was pretty sure this was where Mat died and lived again, but I guess that's out of the question now.

[yoniy0]

Yes, well, he wasn't dead in the sense that someone who has cardiac arrest and is brought back isn't dead, but I think he was clinically dead for a few moments there. So while RJ's answer makes it clear that the bit about 'to die and live again' was referring to his lightning-stroke, if we ponder the status of his link to the Horn, the Rhuidean incident probably has more effect than his actual death in Caemlyn (since that technically never happened).

[Majsju]

Yes, well, he wasn't dead in the sense that someone who has cardiac arrest and is brought back isn't dead, but I think he was clinically dead for a few moments there. So while RJ's answer makes it clear that the bit about 'to die and live again' was referring to his lightning-stroke, if we ponder the status of his link to the Horn, the Rhuidean incident probably has more effect than his actual death in Caemlyn (since that technically never happened).

 

If Mat had been in any way dead in Rhuidean, that incident would have fulfilled the "prophecy" about dying and living again. Since RJ clearly stated that it was Mats death in Caemlyn that was the fulfillment, Mat can not have been in any way dead in Rhuidean. After all, the finns did not say 'to die and live again, and then die and live again again'.

[yoniy0]

If Mat had been in any way dead in Rhuidean, that incident would have fulfilled the "prophecy" about dying and living again.

Just because an incident could be viewed as the fulfillment of a prophecy, doesn't mean that it is (a thing about spears and a lost city comes to mind). The text is fairly clear (even though Rand didn't have a stethoscope) - Mat didn't have a pulse until Rand massaged his chest. We can quibble about the meaning of cardiac arrest all day, I suppose, but I take your point that - ultimately - the thing that matters is whether RJ thought of it as 'dying'. Which he apparently didn't.

[LeeM.Erickson]

Unfortunately metali has it right; RJ all but confirmed that he was planning on an outrigger novel involving Mat and Tuon after TG. I have a small hope though that he was misguiding people; i.e Tuon has a son and calls him Mat, or Tuon takes Mats with her, etc etc :P

 

I love the idea that RJ was giving an Aes Sedai answer about the outriggers and the actual plot would involve Tuon having adventures while carrying around a collection of welcome mats.

[ShowMeYourRage]

Yes, well, he wasn't dead in the sense that someone who has cardiac arrest and is brought back isn't dead, but I think he was clinically dead for a few moments there. So while RJ's answer makes it clear that the bit about 'to die and live again' was referring to his lightning-stroke, if we ponder the status of his link to the Horn, the Rhuidean incident probably has more effect than his actual death in Caemlyn (since that technically never happened).

 

Or you can convolute the authors outright answer in order to validate your oppinion. RJ said it was the Caemlyn death that fulfilled the prophecy. Mat did not die in Rhuidean, clinically, technically, or any other form of death. He was alive.

 

I always wondered whether or not Rand Healed Mat in that scene.

[yoniy0]

Just in case I wasn't clear, I had a feeling Taryn was aiming at Mat's bond with the Horn, and I answered in relation to this alone. In no way was I suggesting that the answer Mat got from the Aelfinn's referred to Rhuidean. And, while Rand didn't have the required machinery, he couldn't hear Mat's heart before applying CPR, and could afterwards. That doesn't happen, to the best of my knowledge, with a functioning heart.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yes, well, he wasn't dead in the sense that someone who has cardiac arrest and is brought back isn't dead, but I think he was clinically dead for a few moments there. So while RJ's answer makes it clear that the bit about 'to die and live again' was referring to his lightning-stroke, if we ponder the status of his link to the Horn, the Rhuidean incident probably has more effect than his actual death in Caemlyn (since that technically never happened).

 

Or you can convolute the authors outright answer in order to validate your oppinion. RJ said it was the Caemlyn death that fulfilled the prophecy. Mat did not die in Rhuidean, clinically, technically, or any other form of death. He was alive.

 

I always wondered whether or not Rand Healed Mat in that scene.

 

Going entirely from memory here, and not even sure which book this might be from, but I believe that Healing is the only Talent about which Lews Therin has admitted to not being proficient. 99% ( to pick a reasonable number out of the air ) of Rand's Channeling comes straight from the memories of LTT, so Healing Mat seems unlikely.

[gloweye]

Its noted a the end of WH that rand can't heal you from a simple bruise.... He surely can't revive.

[peregrine]

It's funny Suian said that. Didn't Tuon also say her father fancied himself a gambler and "died of an ill wager?" I'd say it points to something but, as everyone has already pointed out, it's pretty certain Mat will live through the series. Wouldn't be surprised if RJ was setting him up to die in the outrigger novels though.

 

Any chance they're still going to get written?

[maddface]

 

I always wondered whether or not Rand Healed Mat in that scene.

 

Didn't Mat have his foxhead medallion then? It's been a while since I read that scene but it was just after he went to Finnland and received his gifts. Also as others have stated as well, Rand talent for healing is such that I doubt he could of healed Mat.