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The light of the world


Dbajdek
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Why do you suppose the Fox's needed Mats eye?

There are references that the Foxs and snakes are linked to the DO.

 

I have a theory...

As Mat and Perrin can see in the minds eye Rand, do you suppose the DO wants the eye to see something with Rand at the last battle?

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ToM Spoilers... hope this is ok not been on the forum for a while!

 

Well, it's all personal interpretation at this stage, isnt it? It was from a prophecy like so many things 'Give up half the light of the world to save the world'.

 

The obvious assumption is that as he sacrificed his eye in order to allow them to release Moiraine, that she is somehow going to have a major impact on the outcome of the Last Battle - that having her there will 'save the world'.

 

However, I'm not so sure. I personally think this is one of those prophecies that could mean any number of things. I'll explain.

 

1 - previously I thought that Moiraine would be important because she was etched 'in fire' at the top of Rand's mental list of women who have died because of him. I thought that her reappearance would drag him out of his hollow and he'd change. However, he's already had a bit of a revelation. Maybe she's not so important emotionally. Advice wise, however? Perhaps.

 

2 - the prophecy said that if Mat gave up 'half the light of the world' that the world would be saved (I know, I know, prophecy wording is dubious and misleading) - so... can we stop now? Is it all over? He's given his eye, is the world saved? I dont think so, which makes me think it's not what it seems

 

3 - The light of the world... I was always a bit dubious about that meaning just his sight. 'Light' means so many things in these books. Having said that, he can 'see' Rand and Perrin. They always describe it as just 'appearing' in their sight. Wonder which eye does the viewing?

 

4 - Don't they feed on emotion? i'm not sure where i'm going with this... maybe his memories or something are linked to his sight, his vision? he's seen a lot through all the different lives he can remember...?

 

5 - Moiraine. She's not just important to Rand, is she. There's Lan and Nynaeve to consider. Lan is on his own important crusade which could very well turn the tide (or not), and there's Nynaeve who is (one of) the strongest female channellers for centuries, bonded to him, who Rand trusts implicitly (if he trusts anyone implicitly). If he dies, she'll be destitute. Will she be able to help Rand when he needs it? What if Moiraine sacrificed herself (took Lan's bond back) to spare Nynaeve that anguish? I dont doubt that Nynaeve has it in her to go kamikazi if it would save Lan.

 

6 - Three Become One. I've never believed this is Rand, Moridin and LTT, I think it's Rand, Mat and Perrin. Perrin can talk to wolves (incredible scouts!) but isnt a wonderful general, Rand is crippled but is the Dragon Reborn and Mat is a half blind world-class strategist. But between them they pack a heavy punch. Plus they can see each other through their mind's eye.

 

7 - Save the world from whos perspective? Save which world? Mat's world? The Foxes world? When Mat and Rand went through the doorway at the same time (unwittingly), the strain on the world was such that Mat described it as something like 'tolling' as if being inside a massive bell. He had to give them payment to get out, or to take Moiraine, but perhaps if he'd stayed their world would have been destroyed by his ta'veren? I'm probably talking rubbish here.

 

There's so many possibilities. I just have never really believed that they simply wanted Mat's vision to be impaired. How would that help save the world? He's a strategist, a general by nature. His sight is important.

 

I think it's still to be revealed HOW he's 'saved the world'. Clearly he can still see...

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This is actually a really good question. Why is Mat's eye the price that they demanded? I don't really have an answer.

 

3 - The light of the world... I was always a bit dubious about that meaning just his sight. 'Light' means so many things in these books. Having said that, he can 'see' Rand and Perrin. They always describe it as just 'appearing' in their sight. Wonder which eye does the viewing?

 

4 - Don't they feed on emotion? i'm not sure where i'm going with this... maybe his memories or something are linked to his sight, his vision? he's seen a lot through all the different lives he can remember...?

 

I don't think Mat's physical eyes have anything to do with the visions he sees of Rand and Perrin. These are more visions inside his head. It's quite possible that if Mat (or Perrin, or Rand) were completely blind, they'd still get these images of the other two if they thought about them.

 

I also don't think it has anything to do with Mat's memories. After all, it was the Foxes who gave him the memories in the first place. And Mat is already half convinced that the Snakes and Foxes can already see through his own eyes, or have access to what he sees. It does kind of make sense, considering that in many of the memories Mat has, he recalls dying, and we know that the memories he has are from other people who have gone into the Finns' world. So the Finns were able to gather the memories of people AFTER they had visited them. Therefore Mat posits that they can do the same from him.

 

The Finns did certainly seem to get off on the agony that Mat went through after having his eye ripped out. "The savor" I believe they were saying after it was done. So it could have just been a method of causing him pain for them to feed off of, but I don't know if this is the reason (maybe just one of the reasons) they demanded his eye.

 

So in short, I don't have an answer to this question :p

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His eye was just a price. if you wish to assign deeper mening to it you can assume that the loss would cause a strong emotional responce and the snakes and foxes thrive on emotion. If you wish to go deeper still, you can look at the excange as mat trading sight for knowlege. He is, after all, an Odin figure.

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There is absolutely no question what so ever that giving up half the light of the world is in reference to Mat's eye.

 

Mat makes his demands, is told they are expensive, is told the price is already set. Mat thinks about it and realises what that means, realises he has always known.

Finally he says "I'll pay it! Half the light of the world."

 

There is no more mention of any details about the price, they take his eye.

Edited by Finnssss
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  • 3 weeks later...

I agree with Finnsss. half the light of the world is done, it was his eye.

 

i am more interested in "to save the world". IMO this most likely is related to needing all 3 Ta'vern at the last battle. Although, Mat has not mentioned any pull from Rand like Perrin has.

 

Another theory is that Moirraine is needed for the last battle to be won. Egwene seems to have lost all capacity for reason in regards to breaking the seals. I wouldn't be surprised if Moirraine has collected knowledge over the years (or from the Finns) that will make the ultimate plan of action clear.

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I always felt like the Finns got their main jollies by feeding on the sensations of others with pain being one of the most intense sensations...and someone losing an eye being one of the cruelest and most physically painful things that could happen to someone. Soooooo, setting Mats eye as their price (read:fix) was their way of making sure they would really have some great cookies to get their kicks to.

 

 

Fish

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I always felt like the Finns got their main jollies by feeding on the sensations of others with pain being one of the most intense sensations...and someone losing an eye being one of the cruelest and most physically painful things that could happen to someone. Soooooo, setting Mats eye as their price (read:fix) was their way of making sure they would really have some great cookies to get their kicks to.

 

 

Fish

 

I wonder if they can now "see" out of his removed eye. They seem to collect old memories, so maybe they will collect either what that eye has seen, or what the empty socket will now "see".

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I always felt like the Finns got their main jollies by feeding on the sensations of others with pain being one of the most intense sensations...and someone losing an eye being one of the cruelest and most physically painful things that could happen to someone. Soooooo, setting Mats eye as their price (read:fix) was their way of making sure they would really have some great cookies to get their kicks to.

 

 

Fish

 

I wonder if they can now "see" out of his removed eye. They seem to collect old memories, so maybe they will collect either what that eye has seen, or what the empty socket will now "see".

 

For me at least, its a very interesting question. I remember that post-TSR Mat worried quite a bit that they were ALREADY spying on the world through his eyes. There's a nice bit of dialogue on this very subject in KOD when Mat and Thom discuss Moiraine Damodred's letter.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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  • 6 months later...

I agree with Finnsss. half the light of the world is done, it was his eye.

 

i am more interested in "to save the world". IMO this most likely is related to needing all 3 Ta'vern at the last battle. Although, Mat has not mentioned any pull from Rand like Perrin has.

 

Another theory is that Moirraine is needed for the last battle to be won. Egwene seems to have lost all capacity for reason in regards to breaking the seals. I wouldn't be surprised if Moirraine has collected knowledge over the years (or from the Finns) that will make the ultimate plan of action clear.

 

Wow I realize this is a really old thread, but still:

Mat did mention a "pull" from Rand in ToM (or was it aGS?). Right before Verin comes to him, he describes it as feeling like Rand had fishhooks set in him and was slowly (or gently) tugging from a great distance. Then, when Verin describes her journey that herded her to where Mat was, she tries to describe what it felt like and Mat uses the fish-hook analogy and she seems surprised that he could explain it so well.

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I agree with Finnsss. half the light of the world is done, it was his eye.

 

i am more interested in "to save the world". IMO this most likely is related to needing all 3 Ta'vern at the last battle. Although, Mat has not mentioned any pull from Rand like Perrin has.

 

Another theory is that Moirraine is needed for the last battle to be won. Egwene seems to have lost all capacity for reason in regards to breaking the seals. I wouldn't be surprised if Moirraine has collected knowledge over the years (or from the Finns) that will make the ultimate plan of action clear.

 

Wow I realize this is a really old thread, but still:

Mat did mention a "pull" from Rand in ToM (or was it aGS?). Right before Verin comes to him, he describes it as feeling like Rand had fishhooks set in him and was slowly (or gently) tugging from a great distance. Then, when Verin describes her journey that herded her to where Mat was, she tries to describe what it felt like and Mat uses the fish-hook analogy and she seems surprised that he could explain it so well.

The whole time Matt and Rand are in Tear and when they leave for the Waste, Matt is being pulled. So is Perrin but Rand's pull to Mat seems stronger then.

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About "to save the world" could simply be that if Rand had not had his epiphany already, seeing Moiraine would certainly help with that! Remember that she is there at the top if his list of women who have died for him and even when he is at his most dark, he still think of her fondly.

Simply, to save the world would be to make sure Rand reaches epiphany.

 

Remember that when told that Rand have already cleansed Saidin, she seem suprised. Apparently, some of what she was told by the finns, either the first or the second time, could be related to that.

Edited by Ferdawoon
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The balance scale vision was representing Mat weighing a decision to choose either keeping his eyeball or sacrificing it (and thereby losing half of his ability to physically see the world's light) to save Moiraine, an Aes Sedai - a group he is less than fond of.

 

There is no other interpretation to this storyline.

 

Case closed.

 

 

Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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  • 4 weeks later...

I agree that half light = one eye, but I'm really intrigued as to how the world is saved.

 

The only two ideas that I've come up with are that it's something to do with Moiraine, we know that one of her wishes was for the a'ngreal, but we don't know yet what the other two were for? Difficult to see how it could be to do with the fight against the DO, questions that touch on the DO are disallowed and although it's not mentioned that it works the same for wishes, it seems reasonable to assume it does. The other idea I had, although I don't think the timing fits, is that it's to do with the suspended chance that Mat causes. Olver wins his game presumably as Mat and the others make it out, some pretty cool stuff could have happened if that was extended across Randland, unfortunately that wasn't the exchange made, it was a consequence of it, so who knows?

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I agree that half light = one eye, but I'm really intrigued as to how the world is saved.

 

The only two ideas that I've come up with are that it's something to do with Moiraine, we know that one of her wishes was for the a'ngreal, but we don't know yet what the other two were for? Difficult to see how it could be to do with the fight against the DO, questions that touch on the DO are disallowed and although it's not mentioned that it works the same for wishes, it seems reasonable to assume it does. The other idea I had, although I don't think the timing fits, is that it's to do with the suspended chance that Mat causes. Olver wins his game presumably as Mat and the others make it out, some pretty cool stuff could have happened if that was extended across Randland, unfortunately that wasn't the exchange made, it was a consequence of it, so who knows?

 

Moriane has to do something big. She's the only character we know for sure will do something to help them win.

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I think possible giving up half the light of the world to save the world has two ways it saves the world.

 

1. Mat makes it out alive. If he had not made the bargain there was a very small chance he would have made it out. We know that Mat is going to play a large role in the Last Battle.

 

2. Moiraine. What knowledge does she have that may help? She had 20 years where she knew the Dragon was reborn and the last battle was coming. What knowledge could she have gained in that time? Perhaps she will have some unique insight into Rand's palns.

 

I also believe she will help Rand wield Callandor, along with Nynaeve.

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I skipped a bunch of comments so someone could have said it, but the old phrase goes "the eye is the window in to the soul." They may have taken the eye and are living vicariously through it, seeing his experiences in the past, and possibly his present as well. They feed off of emotions and what not and they may have found a renewable resource for that, and a taveren one no less. Doubt we will get an answer but there's my 2 cents.

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I think possible giving up half the light of the world to save the world has two ways it saves the world.

 

1. Mat makes it out alive. If he had not made the bargain there was a very small chance he would have made it out. We know that Mat is going to play a large role in the Last Battle.

 

2. Moiraine. What knowledge does she have that may help? She had 20 years where she knew the Dragon was reborn and the last battle was coming. What knowledge could she have gained in that time? Perhaps she will have some unique insight into Rand's palns.

 

I also believe she will help Rand wield Callandor, along with Nynaeve.

 

Hadn't thought about the bargain also letting Mat out, seems a little twisted. He's there because his honor has him rescue Moiraine, but also because he told them to go.

 

(My guess is that it will be Nyn and Eg with Rand, although Moiraine would be my second choice - they are the channelers we're introduced to at the beginning, has some symmetry that I like.

 

I skipped a bunch of comments so someone could have said it, but the old phrase goes "the eye is the window in to the soul." They may have taken the eye and are living vicariously through it, seeing his experiences in the past, and possibly his present as well. They feed off of emotions and what not and they may have found a renewable resource for that, and a taveren one no less. Doubt we will get an answer but there's my 2 cents.

 

My understanding was that they were doing that anyway. Mat thinks they are because he has memories of people dying.

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I think possible giving up half the light of the world to save the world has two ways it saves the world.

 

1. Mat makes it out alive. If he had not made the bargain there was a very small chance he would have made it out. We know that Mat is going to play a large role in the Last Battle.

 

2. Moiraine. What knowledge does she have that may help? She had 20 years where she knew the Dragon was reborn and the last battle was coming. What knowledge could she have gained in that time? Perhaps she will have some unique insight into Rand's palns.

 

I also believe she will help Rand wield Callandor, along with Nynaeve.

 

Hadn't thought about the bargain also letting Mat out, seems a little twisted. He's there because his honor has him rescue Moiraine, but also because he told them to go.

 

(My guess is that it will be Nyn and Eg with Rand, although Moiraine would be my second choice - they are the channelers we're introduced to at the beginning, has some symmetry that I like.

 

I skipped a bunch of comments so someone could have said it, but the old phrase goes "the eye is the window in to the soul." They may have taken the eye and are living vicariously through it, seeing his experiences in the past, and possibly his present as well. They feed off of emotions and what not and they may have found a renewable resource for that, and a taveren one no less. Doubt we will get an answer but there's my 2 cents.

 

My understanding was that they were doing that anyway. Mat thinks they are because he has memories of people dying.

 

I suppose that's true, I was gonna throw out that I thought they only have people's memories from before they saw the finns but Mat has memories of those people dying too huh?

 

Edit: I still like the sound of it though, a direct physical link.

Edited by TootThatHorn
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I skipped a bunch of comments so someone could have said it, but the old phrase goes "the eye is the window in to the soul." They may have taken the eye and are living vicariously through it, seeing his experiences in the past, and possibly his present as well. They feed off of emotions and what not and they may have found a renewable resource for that, and a taveren one no less. Doubt we will get an answer but there's my 2 cents.

 

Also, consider this:

 

"How it twists around him!" said the one who had taken his eye. "How it spins! Scents of blood in the air! And the gambler becomes the centre of all! I can taste fate itself!"

 

Have the Eelfinn acquired some sort of ta'veren 'key' to the Pattern?

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