[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[SBoydW]

Can we end this whole argument please? I'm pretty sure this is just townie on townie violence and it's getting emotional IMO. I think several players are being allowed to slip under the radar because of this. IIRC we haven't heard anything from Ed or Levity in awhile. Nyn and Verbal too.

 

 

@Red: Skimming?

@Corrosive: Not really I just don't think BG or Meesh are very scummy and their argument is just dragging on and on and taking up the spotlight. I want to hear from other people who haven't been as active such as yourself.

 

You've also said either those exact same words or words similar to it before. There were other times you've said it but these are the oldest. And these are much more than 15 minutes old.

 

And you're completely misrepresenting my argument if you're comparing it to a false dilemma. I'm not saying BG is the only route (as evidence by my vote change) My whole problem was that in the middle of a discussion you were all like "this argument is going no where" yet you have admitted that you haven't even read the whole "argument". So how would you even know?

 

I believe there are other options. Ledinna made a fairly scummy vote, I made a case on Des earlier. But at the moment you and BG, to me, are the most scummy. If other people would contribute maybe that changes. However, I'm not a mind reader and I can only go off of what's been put into the thread for me to read. It would be nice if we could just say that everyone not posting is scummy, but unfortunately that's most of the players, so that theory is out.

[WWWwombat]

@corrosive: so, you are saying that if he was mafia-buddies with Meesh, he could be stopping the argument since he might fear her lynch withotu lookign like he is directly defending her?

You forgot the other option for that question, Hoof. I don't think I was on my way to a lynch, so it could have very easily been BG.

 

Personally, I kinda thought Nol's post was weird as well. I don't want to go so far as to say he's on a team with BG atm, but it was very very strange, and the timing, too. Things had settled down quite a bit, and valid points were restated, and then Nol comes in with "OMG, you guys are going crazy, and I think it's just town on town violence, stop fighting, this is painful and unproductive, omg!!!" It was, again, timed very interestingly. The tone of his post and his reaction weren't really valid at all anymore. It was also said right after Boyo made very clear the points that I myself had been trying to communicate. Not sure if that was a coincidence or if maybe Nol wanted to discredit the points made against BG by tagging them with the word "violence" and making it sound like a bunch of personal attacks. Interesting move. Not really taking sides, but shoving the issue under the rug without giving credence or consideration to ANY of the points made. BG agreed very readily, too.

I dunno what you find odd about the timing exactly but you're very right that I am "shoving the issue under the rug without giving credence or consideration to any of the points made"

in other words I'm not reading any of your or BGs posts regarding each other

 

Same here. I may go back and read them later, but probably not.

[Nolder]

@Red: Skimming?

@Corrosive: Not really I just don't think BG or Meesh are very scummy and their argument is just dragging on and on and taking up the spotlight. I want to hear from other people who haven't been as active such as yourself.

 

You've also said either those exact same words or words similar to it before. There were other times you've said it but these are the oldest. And these are much more than 15 minutes old.

uhhh I don't know where you got the number "15 minutes"

I can only assume you got mixed up somewhere because the beginning of this whole thing happened when I asked BG and Meesh to chill which happened about 15 hours ago (maybe 16 now)

but regardless

what's your point?

I likely have said it a few times, so what?

 

And you're completely misrepresenting my argument if you're comparing it to a false dilemma. I'm not saying BG is the only route (as evidence by my vote change) My whole problem was that in the middle of a discussion you were all like "this argument is going no where" yet you have admitted that you haven't even read the whole "argument". So how would you even know?

I like how you say "BG" and not "BG and Meesh" or even the more correct (imo) "discussion between BG and Meesh"

you'll take every chance to take a shot wont you?

 

your "whole problem" has nothing to do with me obviously

you had it out for BG before I intervened so don't make it seem like your issue is with me because at the heart of it it's not

it looks like you want BG lynched and I got in your way so you're coming after me now

 

and I would "know" because I've been in those arguments before

many many times

I know what they look like and I can see how it's killing activity

I skimmed enough of their posts to see repetition and silly arguments

neither of them are compelling and neither strike me as particularly scummy

I base my opinion on what I saw and past experience

that's how I "know"

 

It would be nice if we could just say that everyone not posting is scummy, but unfortunately that's most of the players, so that theory is out.

this is exactly why BG and Meesh need to cool it

and you and I as well

we're obviously at odds and not going to agree

let's let other people to weigh in on the issue and hopefully get some new perspectives

[SBoydW]

@corrosive: so, you are saying that if he was mafia-buddies with Meesh, he could be stopping the argument since he might fear her lynch withotu lookign like he is directly defending her?

You forgot the other option for that question, Hoof. I don't think I was on my way to a lynch, so it could have very easily been BG.

 

Personally, I kinda thought Nol's post was weird as well. I don't want to go so far as to say he's on a team with BG atm, but it was very very strange, and the timing, too. Things had settled down quite a bit, and valid points were restated, and then Nol comes in with "OMG, you guys are going crazy, and I think it's just town on town violence, stop fighting, this is painful and unproductive, omg!!!" It was, again, timed very interestingly. The tone of his post and his reaction weren't really valid at all anymore. It was also said right after Boyo made very clear the points that I myself had been trying to communicate. Not sure if that was a coincidence or if maybe Nol wanted to discredit the points made against BG by tagging them with the word "violence" and making it sound like a bunch of personal attacks. Interesting move. Not really taking sides, but shoving the issue under the rug without giving credence or consideration to ANY of the points made. BG agreed very readily, too.

I dunno what you find odd about the timing exactly but you're very right that I am "shoving the issue under the rug without giving credence or consideration to any of the points made"

in other words I'm not reading any of your or BGs posts regarding each other

 

Same here. I may go back and read them later, but probably not.

 

*Forehead > Desk* Maybe I'll adopt that method of play to. I'll ignore your and Nol's posts from now on.

[Ledinna Sedai]

okay so getting the game back on track

 

Welcome Turin! And Spirit - just play, then you'll know in the next game more of how everybody's going to react. I'm pretty new in mafia too.

 

Vote Nolder

I think he's being rather too aggressive.

 

lets not forget this scummy post, theres been more than enough time for her to answer and her silence speakes like scum hoping the cover of the BG/Meesh fiasco will make it go away.

 

 

Vote Levity

 

also, i haven't seen BG answer this decently, what caused the vote; especially since it's after Dinna's scummy vote.

 

Firstly, I did answer. Secondly, are you asking me to be active in mafia in midnight? And I've got the school too.

[ed2funy]

I know it looks like Meesh over reacted, but I think she just talks to much.

 

XD

 

BG, it does seem like you are twisting and whatnot.

 

I would have asked that same question of why you were voting.

And the whole thing about game play itself isn't a highlight of the game anymore. It is more the reactions (and votes) of people's comments on their game play.

 

 

 

FOS you, barring your elaborated response.

Posted Yesterday, 07:50 AM

Edward has nothing to add. Carry on.

Posted Yesterday, 07:57 PM

12 hour difference. Not even a page of content.

[keyholder21]

Maybe I just missed you...

[Nolder]

didn't realize those two posts were so close together

I think maybe because I slept inbetween them so it felt like a day had passed to me

[bgrishinko]

Unvote: Vote Soy

 

Going back now to review what I thought of Lev.

[Amadine]

I missed Amega's unvote of ed because he ninja'd me. I will correct when I am back on the pc.

[SBoydW]

Unvote: Vote Soy

 

Going back now to review what I thought of Lev.

 

Shocking.

[bgrishinko]

Okay, as for Lev, I've got pretty much all her quotes here ignoring the first few. I've been able to pinpoint what was irking me, she's been super apologetic about everything even when there wasn't a need, even for other people. When she does say something that is in the on the offense, it is in a very kind way, or apologizes later. Very careful not to make enemies that way. That's not necessarily scummy, just off from most people. Maybe its just her playstyle... but I don't know that. I just got a feeling is all. Either way, it seemed like a good reason to apply some pressure.

 

 

I didn't see that as a vanilla softclaim... just as a statement. And even if it were, exposing it out in the open like that is a neutral move in my opinion.

 

Nothing to see here really.

 

I will note that I'm wary to condemn Amega (and those who are after him right now) so early in the game

like I said in the dead thread for the Naruto game I think sometimes people take advantage of Amega's spelling/grammatical errors and make him out to seem more scummy than he really is

I concur.

 

I see no particularly glaring case on Amega right now. There isn't anything necessarily wrong with refusing to partake in the jokevoting phase. Not everyone does it, and although mafia may tend to shy away from it at times, I really saw nothing wrong with Amega's reasoning. If he merely wants to voice his opinion on jokevoting, he shouldn't be condemned for something so simple. I don't like the train forming on him right now and would rather abstain from joining it.

 

Apologetic for Amega

 

 

I wasn't especially in love with Soyo's reasoning, though.

 

A very kind way of showing your disagreement.

 

I can see where Nol is coming from, but I don't get where Levity is. Amega has what, 3 votes on him? 4? I don't think everyone is voting him for the same reason. Boyo is voting him for his refusal to joke vote, yes, but that's not what the train is starting for, I don't think. The fact that you're making it out to be "everyone hates the non-joke-voter," which makes it sound ridiculous and unfounded, is making me want to keep an eye on you.

I don't know, it seems like that's how this whole ridiculous bout even started. You don't have to agree with me. Pack up your argument more and go ahead and FOS me for not agreeing with you (lol)--maybe I haven't been reading through this that clearly.

 

Apologetic tone.

 

This isn't true, I agree with Meesh and key. Joke votes get the game started and can lead to more if they are left unhindered, that's how games normally go. I know, I've played a lot of mafia. Also declaring that joke votes are over and then telling people to stop being funny is highly ridiculous. Stop trying to take the fun out of the game. Also to declare you aren't going to joke vote because it doesn't advance the game, but then not do anything about it is silly.

... "I've played a lot of mafia, so therefore my stance is legit!"

 

Look: joke-vote phases have their pros and cons. They get the game started, albeit when elongated for a ridiculous amount of time, it runs the town around in circles. I've seen games remain in mostly jokevote/"we have no leads" phases for nearly three day phases. I mean, all right, I'll admit that Amega didn't necessarily have to voice her disdain for joke-voting, but COME now--what are you guys doing here? You know, I'm wondering if this whole Amega case is merely a distraction from everything else. There's something not right here with this. All I'm seeing is one line from Amega being blown out of proportion, leading him to utter suspicious words or somesuch and multiple interpretations to the case. My interpretation may sound ludicrous--I simply don't know how to word myself better.

 

In short: You find Amega scummy. I don't. This is from my perspective. You can choose to agree with me or disagree. Perhaps my opinion will change in the near future.

 

Apologetic tone in bold. Although, the rest of this post doesn't support my point since she kinda taunts Song a little. Oh well.

 

Just making sure you knew what you were talking about. I'd hate to think you were misrepresenting my reasons/the train on purpose.

Ah... no, this wasn't my intention. Perhaps I should read a bit closer; the last time I visited the mafia forum I was babysitting and likely missed something when I was reading through. I have a tendency to do that and be a bit absentminded at times.

 

One big apology.

 

WHich is perfectly acceptable to have differing opinions. I just don't like how some people are coddling him. I also just pointed out my opinion on this so I could move on. I didn't vote him and I am not "blowing" anything out of proportion. I can comment and have an opinion on this too you know

Haha, I never said you didn't. My apologies for sounding a bit condescending there.

 

Apology for the earlier Song post.

 

Just making sure you knew what you were talking about. I'd hate to think you were misrepresenting my reasons/the train on purpose.

Ah... no, this wasn't my intention. Perhaps I should read a bit closer; the last time I visited the mafia forum I was babysitting and likely missed something when I was reading through. I have a tendency to do that and be a bit absentminded at times.

Ninja'd--most of my response above was based on the assumption that you'd read this ^^^ and were still maintaining that the case was all about joke votes. If you missed it, then no big deal. I just don't like being misrepresented by people. XD

I tend to misinterpret a lot of things :'D

 

All right, I'll read through again and see if anything changes.

 

Apology.

 

What I take issue with is that the fact that things did start in response to his stance on joke voting (thru Boyo's vote and Nolder's dissection) is something you're "worried" about. Does it matter why the game is moving along, as long as it is? It's caused discussion, and any discussion isn't "wrong" at this point in the game--what better do we have to go on right now? It doesn't hurt to pressure people for information, IMO.

By the way, I meant to also apologize for accidentally implying that I didn't like that the game was moving along in response to Amega's comments. I like it. I guess I only misinterpreted that the admittedly miniscule train seemed to be starting far too soon over something so trivial, but there seem to be less votes cast than I realized, and much more purpose behind it than I saw. I suppose I pulled the same thing in the last game I played and I'm starting to feel a little guilty for being needlessly critical now.

 

 

Yea, Nolder has a point on soft claim.

I almost meant to point this out earlier while I was skimming through--restates opinion already made by a few people, short, no more content besides that, smack-dab in the middle of a more-fueled discussion, nothing more to add after this?

 

Just found it as a slightly odd, out-of-the-blue post.

 

No apology. I stand corrected.

 

 

Ugh, I apologize for inactivity. I've been incredibly busy setting up my game. I barely ate for two days. I'll be back into gear by tomorrow.

 

I guess this one doesn't really count.

 

Anyway. People who are overly apologetic tend to draw me eye. So there it is.

 

But Soy is now at the top of my list so time to focus there.

[bgrishinko]

Unvote: Vote Soy

 

Going back now to review what I thought of Lev.

 

Shocking.

 

 

How could you not see that coming?

[SBoydW]

So you finally build your "case" against lev, just to vote me? It's really hard to tell who is pinging harder between you and Nol.

[Sakaea]

For now, I'm happy with my vote on Dinna, but BG is pinging for me harder and harder the more he posts. I've been waiting to see his case on Levity, and then....that's your case? FOS BG. Something is off here.

[Turin Turambar]

BG, your case against Levity is that she is too polite? Interesting, if odd.

[keyholder21]

wth BG.

 

 

Are you jesting? >.>

[bgrishinko]

Not at all. I'm just finding that things needed to get a little bit livelier for discussion.

 

Edit: left out a word that made my sentence not make sense.

[WWWwombat]

BG, your case against Levity is that she is too polite? Interesting, if odd.

 

I caught Ithi with a similar case in her first game. That being said, I don't think Levity would let her alignment overtly affect her manners.

[bgrishinko]

BG, your case against Levity is that she is too polite? Interesting, if odd.

 

 

Nothing wrong with politeness. But over apologetic doesn't = polite, to me it feels like there is something to hide. It was worth a poke.

[Netbattler11]

OH MY GOD PEOPLE DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN SIT AROUND AND WRITE WALLS OF TEXT ALL OVER THE PLACE ALL DAY!?

 

Please ignore that statement, I am merely venting. WoTs make it rather annoying to re-read though.

 

*realizes he's about to do a huge post completely against what he just said*

 

Shhh.

 

Also, forgive me if this is out of order at all, I went back and forth a couple times.

 

Did you want to lynch Leelou?

sure

I still do

Excuse me? Why? I haven't seen anything to justify this.

Welcome Turin! And Spirit - just play, then you'll know in the next game more of how everybody's going to react. I'm pretty new in mafia too.

 

Vote Nolder

I think he's being rather too aggressive.

*blinks*

 

*blinks again*

 

this is a joke, right?

 

no, apparently not, as you haven't managed to come back and explain it at all.

Vote Levity

FOS for unexplained vote.

 

Unvote Vote Meeshy

 

 

That's exactly the kind of reaction I was looking for. Large and over blown. Most town woulda shrugged it off I think.

 

Plus I'm on my phone right now, so I can't go get quotes and whatnot.

No, not really. At all. One, I know any number of people who have gotten up in arms over an unjust accusal, even in this game. Actually, I think thats what started all the WoT wars. Two, meesh reacts to everything with lots of reaction. Not an inflection on you meesh, just an observation.

I know it looks like Meesh over reacted, but I think she just talks to much.

 

XD

 

BG, it does seem like you are twisting and whatnot.

 

I would have asked that same question of why you were voting.

And the whole thing about game play itself isn't a highlight of the game anymore. It is more the reactions (and votes) of people's comments on their game play.

 

 

 

FOS you, barring your elaborated response.

QFT.

Hmmmm all im hearing is blah blah blah...amega.....scum....blah blah im not scum....blah blah blah bg scum....OMGUS VOTE....BLAH BLAH blah.

 

 

I would have to agree i believe that this was blown out of proportion with huge walls of text., although i have to agree that mafia is not a place to be if your feelings get hurt easy.

 

I dont totally believe that either is scum or town but for now i will vote mesh...

 

 

bg will be one to look after though...

 

another point i would like to go back to is leelou's comment on nolders vote...it just keeps popping out at me....

To the first part... Yes. It seems like there have been a lot of pointless arguments going on. Well, maybe not pointless, but certainly not as useful as they could be for the amount of attention tehy're pulling.

I agree with the rest of this post except for the vote on meesh and the last line. That doesn't make sense to me. If we're looking at anyone over that vote it should be Nol.

is it just me or is blackhoof agreeing with everyone?

 

Yeah, what a slimy slimeball.

not what I was saying...

 

Then what were you trying to say?

Congrats on the OMGUS fight. This is about as pointless as it gets.

 

Overall thoughts:

 

Nol certainly pings for his support of a leelou lynch for no reason, but the main thing I get from him is that he's really, really tired of arguing and wants to go hide in a hole for the next week or so.

 

Ledinna: Scummiest post of the game. The grounding is nonexistant and even worse, she hasn't returned to explain it.

 

Red: No scumtells here, but I find it amusing that you always pop out of nowhere and let loose with a volley of FoSs.

 

BG: Also pretty scummy. The unexplained levity vote followed by the attack on meesh for playing exactly the way she has been pings majorly.

 

All around: lots of OMGUSing and little playing. Trains shift a lot, WoT wars keep happening, but we don't actually seem to be making any progress.

 

To conclude: Ledinna popped up, attacked Nol for something he wasn't doing, and left. Scummiest actions by far. VOTE LEDINNA

[Netbattler11]

Bleah. My brain messed up. BG has attempted to justify his attack on levity, if badly. However, his original unexplained attack still pings.

[mmeeshal]

Just really quick, Maw: Thank you for the new sig-quote. XD

[Netbattler11]

Lol. That does sound rather silly, now that i think about it. but still true.

[Nynaeve]

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that I have a big final on Sunday (Yes, it's a regular week day here) and it's why I've been bad at checking in. I promise that by Sunday I'll catch up and give my two cents.

 

Till then,

 

 

 

 

Nyn