The wolves will save Lan

[omaleyb]

We know the wolves have been heading to the Borderlands since VoG and the Borderlanders know the wolves hate Trollocs, so I think it's possible that Lan's army will get help from the wolves and be able to hold. Any thoughts?

[mop]

I think it is plausible, but Rand may ask Perrin to save them for something big. We have no guarantee the wolves will be near tarwain's gap, just that they are heading north to the borderlands.

[Durinax]

not to mention, the borderlanders may start striking the wolves. Best situation would be lan and his army being pushed out of the gap, and the wolves flanking the trollocs. But that likely wont happen

[omaleyb]

The Borderlanders see wolves as good luck or at least know they hate Trollocs, so they won't strike at the wolves. Perrin isn't with them and the wolves don't see him as their leader. He will ask for their help at some point and they will give it, but it will have to be somewhere near the Blight. Plus, I don't think Perrin will be involved in this, he has other things to occupy him at the moment (like tFoM). The wolves are near the Gap, they hate Trollocs, and they will side with anyone fighting the Trollocs. I don't thik Rand is going to send help, but I don't see Lan dying in some pointless suicide mission either. He might die, but it will be to save Nynaeve (or Moraine?) at some other point. It's just a theory, but I think someone will have to save Lan and the Gap, and I think the wolves are the only ones not occupied at the moment.

[David Selig]

How many millions of wolves would be necessary to really make a difference against the masses of armed Trollocs at the Gap? I doubt there are that many on the whole continent.

[omaleyb]

If I remember correctly, Lan had about 10,000 troops and was outnumber somewhere about 5-10 to 1. So max number of Trollocs is about 100,000. I think there might be that many wolves in all the lands of Randland (maybe more), and they will all be there. Very few if any holdouts. Not like humans where 60-90% of the popoulation will be civillians trying to stay safe. Point is we are not talking about millions. North America has 50,000-70,000 wolves and that is after we hunted them near extinction.

[Ataxia]

I like it. Lan has experience with the wolves as well when they saved their asses early in the series.

[Lisa Campbell]

With raised eyebrows...

 

I like this theory because it is so out of the blue. Unfortunately I don't have anything to add at this point.

[Kaznen]

If I remember correctly, Lan had about 10,000 troops and was outnumber somewhere about 5-10 to 1. So max number of Trollocs is about 100,000. I think there might be that many wolves in all the lands of Randland (maybe more), and they will all be there. Very few if any holdouts. Not like humans where 60-90% of the popoulation will be civillians trying to stay safe. Point is we are not talking about millions. North America has 50,000-70,000 wolves and that is after we hunted them near extinction.

 

I think there are A LOT more wolves then 100tho in Randland. Whole countries have been swallowed by wilderness hundreds of years earlier, not two mention the vast tracks of wilderness in the settled land. Wolves being an apex predator would flourish in all the wildernesses of Randland. And that isn't including all the wolves living in settled land.

[Taelin]

Rand refers to Lan twice in ToM; first to Egwene "... a friend rides to his death alone..." and later to Nynaeve, saying he will send help, but not yet. I don't think Rand knows about Perrin's wolfishness directly, so having him send the wolves is not likely.

 

What is more likely? Malkier is closer to Shayol Gul than any of the other borderland, so my guess is that the main offensive thrust will be made to aid Lan.

[OneOfTheBand]

Rand refers to Lan twice in ToM; first to Egwene "... a friend rides to his death alone..." and later to Nynaeve, saying he will send help, but not yet. I don't think Rand knows about Perrin's wolfishness directly, so having him send the wolves is not likely.

 

What is more likely? Malkier is closer to Shayol Gul than any of the other borderland, so my guess is that the main offensive thrust will be made to aid Lan.

 

I fully agree. We see Zen Rand full of remorse at planning to let Lan ride to his death. Rand means to send aid to Lan. Also I can't imagine Nyn NOT going to Lan's aid and demanding help from everyone she can. Especially the Aes Sedai. Maybe we'll finally see the Green Ajah doing something useful?

[Taelin]

Rand refers to Lan twice in ToM; first to Egwene "... a friend rides to his death alone..." and later to Nynaeve, saying he will send help, but not yet. I don't think Rand knows about Perrin's wolfishness directly, so having him send the wolves is not likely.

 

What is more likely? Malkier is closer to Shayol Gul than any of the other borderland, so my guess is that the main offensive thrust will be made to aid Lan.

 

I fully agree. We see Zen Rand full of remorse at planning to let Lan ride to his death. Rand means to send aid to Lan. Also I can't imagine Nyn NOT going to Lan's aid and demanding help from everyone she can. Especially the Aes Sedai. Maybe we'll finally see the Green Ajah doing something useful?

Hey, you just hit on something I overlooked... in "New Spring", Lan demanded an answer from Moiraine as to why the White Tower didn't send aid when Malkier fell, after Malkier answered every call the White Tower made. Moiraine's response was "we couldn't get there in time" and they (AS) didn't want to publicly admit their short comings. Now that travelling is rediscovered, maybe it's time for the Green Ajah to deliver. I like this possibility.

[Pinzarn]

I have always expected the Aes Sedai will "get there in time" this time. While I think it was blatant foreshadowing, I will still welcome it. I just hope it isn't Nynaeve at the lead. She did her part in this, I want someone else to lead the charge.

[MarkDiLillo]

Rand refers to Lan twice in ToM; first to Egwene "... a friend rides to his death alone..." and later to Nynaeve, saying he will send help, but not yet. I don't think Rand knows about Perrin's wolfishness directly, so having him send the wolves is not likely.

 

What is more likely? Malkier is closer to Shayol Gul than any of the other borderland, so my guess is that the main offensive thrust will be made to aid Lan.

 

I fully agree. We see Zen Rand full of remorse at planning to let Lan ride to his death. Rand means to send aid to Lan. Also I can't imagine Nyn NOT going to Lan's aid and demanding help from everyone she can. Especially the Aes Sedai. Maybe we'll finally see the Green Ajah doing something useful?

Hey, you just hit on something I overlooked... in "New Spring", Lan demanded an answer from Moiraine as to why the White Tower didn't send aid when Malkier fell, after Malkier answered every call the White Tower made. Moiraine's response was "we couldn't get there in time" and they (AS) didn't want to publicly admit their short comings. Now that travelling is rediscovered, maybe it's time for the Green Ajah to deliver. I like this possibility.

 

 

Agree. This would be awesome.

[TheTuninator]

It'd be a hell of a lot of wolves to overcome a massed army one hundred thousand strong in an enclosed area. I don't doubt that they will fight en masse at the Last Battle, but there's got to be a better way to use them than that. If we follow the assumption that the Last Battle will take place all over the continent, wolves would seem ideally employed in order to protect far-flung villages, etc, that would otherwise suffer under Trolloc depredations instead of throwing themselves away charging a spearwall.

 

I'm of the opinion that we will see some kind of dramatic gateway entrance of some sort; hopefully Nynaeve herself, but who knows.

[NetSlider]

WOW, I have to say I really like this idea. Waves of wolves with Alias(sp)! Lan and him have some history so that would be a cool meeting to see

[Mordaunt]

My working theory is that the Borderlander armies around Far Madding accepted Rand's offer of Traveling and were sent to Tarwin's Gap. I can see a scenario that places Lan squarely in charge of all four nation's military.

[NetSlider]

My working theory is that the Borderlander armies around Far Madding accepted Rand's offer of Traveling and were sent to Tarwin's Gap. I can see a scenario that places Lan squarely in charge of all four nation's military.

Most likely you are right, though wolves appearing and saving them would be cool . I wonder how much practical military leadership experience Lan has. I know he had training and all but is he a Great Captain material?

[Mordaunt]

I wonder how much practical military leadership experience Lan has. I know he had training and all but is he a Great Captain material?

 

I think he'd be fine. He worked with Rhuarc to come up with the Battle of Cairhien plan. He had leadership during the Aiel War. He was able to describe Aiel fighting tactics and how to defeat them. From what I've seen of the Great Captains I'm not that impressed to be honest. It seems to be mainly attacking supply lines and winning through attrition, with the occasional hilltop defense thrown in.

[Suttree]

I wonder how much practical military leadership experience Lan has. I know he had training and all but is he a Great Captain material?

 

I think he'd be fine. He worked with Rhuarc to come up with the Battle of Cairhien plan. He had leadership during the Aiel War. He was able to describe Aiel fighting tactics and how to defeat them. From what I've seen of the Great Captains I'm not that impressed to be honest. It seems to be mainly attacking supply lines and winning through attrition, with the occasional hilltop defense thrown in.

 

Well we know that two of the great captains have pretty much dominated what is thought to be the best military power in the world.

 

How can you not be impressed by Ituralde? His campaign against the Seanchan was pure genius and he did very well faced with impossible circumstances at Maradon.

 

As for Bashere he too was spanking a much larger Seanchan force until Rand stopped listening and made a bloody mess of the whole thing.

 

Edit: I should add that tPoD Seanchan campaign is one of my fav parts of the series. The whole "no one stands nose to nose with DR" was pretty epic.

[Entreri]

Only 2 generals have impressed me in the series: Mat/Greatest general of ALL TIME and Iturlade (possibly #2 general of all time).

 

Mat, what can we say about this man? Greatest good side character that Jordan has created, and by far.

 

 

Let's look at Ituralde: ANNIHILATED a Seanchan force of 300,000 with probably around 200 damane with a force of only 50,000 none channelers. THAT IS EPIC. With Ituralde in command of the Randland forces (without Mat assissting the Seanchan), the Randlanders will DEFINITELY WIN.

 

Then Ituralde beat back a force of at least 100,000 Trollocs if not 200,000 with a force probably around 1/10 its size. Rand with LTT's memories was AMAZED, even Bashere no doubt was amazed.

[Kara]

I have always expected the Aes Sedai will "get there in time" this time. While I think it was blatant foreshadowing, I will still welcome it. I just hope it isn't Nynaeve at the lead. She did her part in this, I want someone else to lead the charge.

 

Alanna maybe?

[DemandredFO]

If channelers save him it will be Rand initiated or Logain. Also do we know when Lan's suicidal charge was?

[omaleyb]

Yes, I have been wondering when in the timeline Lan's charge began, but I have a feeling that help wouldn't arrive in time. That is why I think the wolves show up and help buy enough time for help to arrive.

 

Also, we must consider how the wolves would be deployed in any action. They are best fighting with autonomy in small groups to take down much larger prey. And I would never have them charge a "spear wall" as someone put it. But after Lan's charge meets the Trollocs and the melee has begun then the wolves come darting in,surprising everyone, and start hamstringing Trollocs and dragging down the Neverborn.

 

And...the wolves will not be used to protect far flung villages or sent through gateways. ALL the wolves of Randland have been heading to the Blight for a while and that is where they will fight en masse. The Gap makes the most sense and Lan needs help that doesn't seem to be available anywhere else.

[Mordaunt]

Only 2 generals have impressed me in the series: Mat/Greatest general of ALL TIME and Iturlade (possibly #2 general of all time).

 

Mat, what can we say about this man? Greatest good side character that Jordan has created, and by far.

 

 

Let's look at Ituralde: ANNIHILATED a Seanchan force of 300,000 with probably around 200 damane with a force of only 50,000 none channelers. THAT IS EPIC. With Ituralde in command of the Randland forces (without Mat assissting the Seanchan), the Randlanders will DEFINITELY WIN.

 

Then Ituralde beat back a force of at least 100,000 Trollocs if not 200,000 with a force probably around 1/10 its size. Rand with LTT's memories was AMAZED, even Bashere no doubt was amazed.

 

Ituralde had a force of 100,000 soldiers, he lost 50,000 in the battle. It's true he did well to trick the Seanchan into attacking immediately, and forcing the Damane up against the walls where their channeling hurt themselves as much as him. I was impressed with his defense inside Maradon, I don't know, I just think the captains have been talked up a LOT and have little to show for it. Agelmar Jagad and Gareth Bryne especially. Niall was proved a great captain through flashbacks, and Mat is Mat. Davram Bashere's Seanchan battle involved soldiers protecting asha'man flanks while they killed everything in sight, a fairly simple tactic. His mettle is to be proved in my opinion as at the moment I put him on par with Perrin.