The White Tower is opressive!

[AegisArcana]

I have, as of July 30th 2011, read up through the 9th book two times now. Between readings I had the chance of taking multiple philosophy classes and have gone through great personal change to my beliefs of freedom and respect.

 

After reading the second time it is hard for me not to hate the White Tower and all of its "so-called Aes Sedai," as Moridin and many of the forsaken refer to them. I admit that the system of training Novices to Aes Sedai is useful, but it is largely oppressive.

 

The arrogance of Aes Sedai pains me as I read the books. I understand that they want to ensure the survival of the world and the keeping of peace, but they shouldn't have to look down their noses at everybody to accomplish that goal. Moreover, I hate nobles and Daes'Damar. Although Daes'Damar will not be going away, similar to how politics never dies, I believe the nobles could be done without.

 

Since book Six I have been wishing that there were an uprising in one of the countries to start a more fair and representative government in some part of the Wheel of Time, where any man or woman is free in the truest sense of the word. If all that country did was take refugees of other countries it would already be half as big as any nation excepting the Seanchan nation.

 

The Aes Sedai have too much an air of self-importance, especially seeing as how the male channelers' problems have largely been removed by Rand.

 

The pomp of the White Tower is nearly unbearable at times. It would be nice if in the last book then the Forsaken obliterated Tar Valon in some sort of last ditch effort to harm the Light. After, of course, all of the books and important artifacts are removed. :D

 

[LemonPastie]

Quite simply, I agree.

 

As to a country rising up against its rulers, the two rivers has pretty much done that. They have started taking refugees from across the mountains, have installed Perrin as the lord through their belief in him being able to lead them and despite this without him there, I assume Bran is still running the show as a leader voted in through a democratic process.

[Leyrann]

Was a part of the government of Illian not also voted?

[rand4747]

the tower is not exactly opressive, they allow alot of freedom to their subjects and where they are not interfering with other countries politics they allow them freedom too. They are overly arrogant and assume much more of their strength than they really have but they do not really control anything outside of Tar Valon.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i think he would have called it the ivory tower but it was too on the nose.

[randsc]

My sig line. Enough said.

[randsc]

Well, not quite enough said. I'll also repeat my hope that among the mechanical wonders rediscovered in the new Age is the guillotine.

[XXX]

If Egwene does not die..I hope the WT is finished. She can go back and work in her father's inn.

[Elan Tedronai]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

[David Selig]

Two Rivers have actually become much less democratic than it was at the start of the series - now they have a Lord (Perrin, since I don't really count Rand despite the legal technicality Morgase came up with), whose wife is working on turning Two Rivers brand of democracy into a typical feudal system, and the locals happily go along with it.

[XXX]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

[randsc]

Nah, she won't die. She will have only half the power she has now, as she is forced to share with Logain.

[XXX]

Nah, she won't die. She will have only half the power she has now, as she is forced to share with Logain.

 

 

I can hope can I...though what I prefer is her becoming Tuon's personal damane!!

[Elan Tedronai]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

:biggrin:

 

keep dreaming

[Lama Chemist Ho]

I always felt the one thing the white tower teaches hardest is obedience. maybe it makes sense in regard to the dangers of first learning to channel but I think the real reason is power and control

 

and yeah my fav example of government in the series is the two rivers, circa EotW (no nobles and pretty much everyone has a say)

[Suttree]

The Aes Sedai have too much an air of self-importance, especially seeing as how the male channelers' problems have largely been removed by Rand.

 

Well yeah, you know that. The thing is if you just finished book 9 no one else in the story knows Saidin is clean yet. They all think the forsaken had some massive plan. Keep in mind it is somewhat difficult to change 3,000 years of perception over night.

[Haggis]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

[Suttree]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

 

Haggis there really is not much of a point. When those two are posting at each other it really is best just to step away and not feed the trolls.

[MasterAblar]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

 

You might want to tell the whole story before making judgments. Such as the fact that those 50 women were going to slaughter every man they find at the BT. Or the fact that it was bonding or death, death being perfectly justified in this case. Or the fact that he did so on orders from his superior because the women were not to be harmed. And the fact that those women have never been abused in any way, and were even protected by the very same man.

[MasterAblar]

Nah, she won't die. She will have only half the power she has now, as she is forced to share with Logain.

 

Well she doesn't actually currently have any power over the male channelers so not really.

[Suttree]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

 

You might want to tell the whole story before making judgments. Such as the fact that those 50 women were going to slaughter every man they find at the BT. Or the fact that it was bonding or death, death being perfectly justified in this case. Or the fact that he did so on orders from his superior because the women were not to be harmed. And the fact that those women have never been abused in any way, and were even protected by the very same man.

 

I agree with all your points but you do have to admit the twist to the Ashaman bonding is a bit disturbing. It was discovered when they were experimenting on bonding their wives and they just happened to find a way to force obedience?!?! That is pretty sketchy, especially in light of all the shadiness going down in the BT.

[Clayden69]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

 

You might want to tell the whole story before making judgments. Such as the fact that those 50 women were going to slaughter every man they find at the BT. Or the fact that it was bonding or death, death being perfectly justified in this case. Or the fact that he did so on orders from his superior because the women were not to be harmed. And the fact that those women have never been abused in any way, and were even protected by the very same man.

 

I agree with all your points but you do have to admit the twist to the Ashaman bonding is a bit disturbing. It was discovered when they were experimenting on bonding their wives and they just happened to find a way to force obedience?!?! That is pretty sketchy, especially in light of all the shadiness going down in the BT.

 

 

I thought the "forcing of obedience" was the same as the AS way of forcing their Warders' to do the AS will, like Alanna tried with Rand. (I know it's outlawed but it's the same practice, it's nothing new in terms of a bond between a channeler and another person)

[MasterAblar]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

 

You might want to tell the whole story before making judgments. Such as the fact that those 50 women were going to slaughter every man they find at the BT. Or the fact that it was bonding or death, death being perfectly justified in this case. Or the fact that he did so on orders from his superior because the women were not to be harmed. And the fact that those women have never been abused in any way, and were even protected by the very same man.

 

I agree with all your points but you do have to admit the twist to the Ashaman bonding is a bit disturbing. It was discovered when they were experimenting on bonding their wives and they just happened to find a way to force obedience?!?! That is pretty sketchy, especially in light of all the shadiness going down in the BT.

 

It's certainly disturbing, it's pretty much compulsion, although thankfully it doesn't seem to be used on the aes sedai, or at least for anything terrible. They're basically treated as prisonners, not slaves as the extra bit would allow.

As for how it was discovered, well every weave has to be discovered somehow and it's not always through evil intent. Especially since the ones who have wives who stayed tend to be the better ashaman.

[Kahsm]

I look forward to the end of amol. There's going to be a lot of bitter tears and disappointment. Oh it will be glorious

 

The death of Egwene and the accession of Logain as the head of all channelers will be surely glorious.

 

So in a topic about oppression you want to give power to man who ENSLAVED 50 women, vs the one person in the tower who wants to work with other channelers rather then try force them to do want the tower wants.

 

You might want to tell the whole story before making judgments. Such as the fact that those 50 women were going to slaughter every man they find at the BT. Or the fact that it was bonding or death, death being perfectly justified in this case. Or the fact that he did so on orders from his superior because the women were not to be harmed. And the fact that those women have never been abused in any way, and were even protected by the very same man.

 

I agree with all your points but you do have to admit the twist to the Ashaman bonding is a bit disturbing. It was discovered when they were experimenting on bonding their wives and they just happened to find a way to force obedience?!?! That is pretty sketchy, especially in light of all the shadiness going down in the BT.

 

I just love how Egwene is hated for her "ruthless ambition" but she should be replaced with Logain, the false dragon who warred through a nation causing innocent deaths as a false dragon.

 

Also, if the argument is that the institution is broken, how would making Logain the head of it fix that?

[Suttree]

I thought the "forcing of obedience" was the same as the AS way of forcing their Warders' to do the AS will, like Alanna tried with Rand. (I know it's outlawed but it's the same practice, it's nothing new in terms of a bond between a channeler and another person)

 

No there is a diff, Ashaman can force obedience(the "extra bit") while the AS version is more persuasion.