Egwene Poll

[Taryn]

Taking up on something Andizzle posted a while back. Sorry if this has already been done.

 

 

Just to make it clear, I'm only doing this to gain empirical data. It's not my intent to begin another Egwene discussion thread, there's literally a bazillion of them already, and even threads that were begun with nothing to do with Egwene become a commentary. But, there's no stopping it I suppose, so do what you wish already, you crazy people ;)

 

Please let me know if you think these are not very good questions, or if you can think of better ones concerning the response/reaction to Egwene.

 

 

Oh, and for the record, Egwene is one of my favorite characters. Let it begin.....again!!!

[Ananta]

I liked her on my first readthrough, but now on my re-read I have noticed she's rather annoying. And extremely stupid on some occasions.

 

 

Anyhow, I do think she has been written well.

[Leyrann]

After Rand Sedai she is my favourite character in the series. And VERY well-written. I like most how she reunited the WT in KoD and TGS.

[randsc]

I can't answer the second question, and so it won't let me answer the first.

 

The reason I can't answer the second question is that I honestly can't figure out if Egwene is being written the way she is intentionally, or if she is intended to be a broadly sympathetic character. If she is intentionally being written as she is, and this is explained in aMoL (Halima cumplusion, say) then she is very well written. If she is intended to be seen as a something other than the worst human being among the light-siders, she has been very badly written.

[Taryn]

Just threw up a third question, since i believe it is pertinent.

 

Randsc, I guess you (and many others, I suspect) shall have to wait and see how Egwene looks coming out of AMoL ;)

[Leyrann]

For this third question, you should maybe add "I didn't reread/No difference". I didn't have a "real" reread, but I read most of the parts about Egwene two or three times, but I like her as much as I did. Only because I've voted before the 3rd question was added, I could vote, because I liked her, and still like her.

[Majsju]

She became my favourite character somewhere in TDR, and has stayed that way since.

[David Selig]

Funny, she became my least favourite of the main characters in TDR (I cheered when Elayne finally gave her the slap Egwene was asking for the whole book) and has stayed this way ever since. ;)

 

As for well-written...I really don't know. Hard to tell what Jordan was trying to achieve with her.

[Lama Chemist Ho]

before the waste- dislike; after the wise ones got through with her- like.

 

she was terribly bratty early on in the series but I felt like egwene probably underwent more character development since then than anyone else except maybe rand. I DID change my mind about her briefly when she got herself captured at the end of #10 but like the person above said, all of her actions since then have been quite impressive. I mean if she hadn't remained in the tower as a novice undermining elaida's rule from within, there probably would have been more bloodshed before there was reunification...

 

altho I could see how people could be upset by her working against rand, after that

[Hybrid]

I started out disliking her. She started off obnoxious and overbearing -- the former mostly due to her lack of knowledge and experience yet her attitude that she was always right. I've liked her more since her time with the Wise Ones, and more still after her time in the Tower. I still dislike her, but not nearly as strongly as before. I don't nearly dislike her as much as Gawyn, Elayne, or Faile.

 

I actually feel she went through less character development than the other Emond's Fielders. They've all dealt with some sort of realization that has shaped their character growth. Rand has to deal with the fact that he's the Dragon Reborn. Mat has to deal with a newfound sense of responsibility. Perrin has to deal with the apparent loss of his humanity. Nynaeve has to deal with no longer being the Big Fish in the pond. But I feel that Egwene started out believing in her superiority, continued to do so, and got justified and rewarded by becoming Amyrlin. So I can see where some people think that Jordan believed she was the Light's gift to mankind.

 

Poll answers:

Dislike

(reasons above)

Well-written

(depends on Jordan's intention, but I'm erring on this side)

No Difference

(as stated above - strong dislike to minor dislike)

[Apple13]

I really didn't like her at the beginning, 'cause she was always contradicting Nynaeve, and a lot of the times for no reason at all. I began to get used to her character later on tho...I think she's a good character, tho she's not a person I'd want to be friends with (but then again, I wouldn't want to be friends with most of the main females in the series -_- so...). She has good intentions, anyways, so I do like her character.

 

I don't think some of her scenes were written all that well, though. Especially with the Salidar and White Tower novice plots, her rise to power seemed too unlikely and fast. She was suddenly smarter than Aes Sedai who were a hundred years older, and with a hundred years more political experience...I know that Robert Jordan MEANT this to show to us that Egwene is really, really smart. But a lot of the times it came across as the other AS are just REALLY dumb, which seems ridiculous, since they're supposed to have "made the world dance to [their] tune for 3000 years".

[Guest PiotrekS]

I have written many posts explaining why IMHO Egwene is the weakest point of the series in terms of writing. I'm afraid she's supposed to be a very good and almost faultless hero and at least in my eyes her portrayal is so terribly self-righteous and ham-fisted that I can't call it anything else but bad writing.

 

I dislike her also as a character, but mainly I can't really stand the way she's written. If she was an actual person, I would have more mixed feelings about her - I wouldn't be able to trust or befriend her, but I could respect her competences.

[mb]

Have always liked her. No change.

Do consider her well-written.

[Elan Tedronai]

what's the point of this thread? You only have to trawl through dragonmount forums to seep through the endless egwene hate. You got your emprical data right there

 

 

egwene is universally disliked her. just a few supporters. Written beautifully by the true author of the series. Rose through prominence in KOD and in TGS most of jordan's work was egwene related.

 

butchered apart by sanderson (as per usual) in TOM. what's new? ruined mat, aviendha and made talmanes a complete joke.

[michael.clinton83]

before the waste- dislike; after the wise ones got through with her- like.

 

she was terribly bratty early on in the series but I felt like egwene probably underwent more character development since then than anyone else except maybe rand. I DID change my mind about her briefly when she got herself captured at the end of #10 but like the person above said, all of her actions since then have been quite impressive. I mean if she hadn't remained in the tower as a novice undermining elaida's rule from within, there probably would have been more bloodshed before there was reunification...

 

altho I could see how people could be upset by her working against rand, after that

 

Couldn't have said it much better myself. I'd say on a scale of 1-10, she was a 4 for me pre-waste, 7 from Salidar until her capture, and a 9 from then on. I actually just finished my first read through the series a month or so ago (which took me about 2 years of paced reading, though I sped up as the series went on).

[Finnssss22]

what's the point of this thread? You only have to trawl through dragonmount forums to seep through the endless egwene hate. You got your emprical data right there

 

 

egwene is universally disliked her. just a few supporters. Written beautifully by the true author of the series. Rose through prominence in KOD and in TGS most of jordan's work was egwene related.

 

butchered apart by sanderson (as per usual) in TOM. what's new? ruined mat, aviendha and made talmanes a complete joke.

 

 

That's funny.

I mean the Egwene hate didn't start to take a turn for the better until tGS.

 

What I always find the most humourous though is that we aren't even sure what scenes were written right out of RJ's notes. Last I heard the only character that BS had to actually do completely from scratch was Perrin.

Honestly Elan, if I were you, I would definitely do some serious research into this before continuing with any further rants.

 

 

Some relevant parts from a BS Interview that might interest you and the state of some of your views.

 

Amazon.com: Jordan's fans, obviously, are pretty hardcore about his work. Are you aware of any reaction from them about you taking up the reins?

 

Brandon Sanderson: They've been very encouraging. Some few are negative, but the overwhelming majority of them are thankful that they'll be able to read the book. They seem to support Mr. Jordan's wife in her decision, even if the fans don't know me or my work. We all understand that I'm not Mr. Jordan. Nobody is claiming that I am. He's the one who should have finished this book. Unfortunately, we lost him, and there is nothing to be done besides see that his last work is completed. The goal of everyone working on this project is to do him proud.

 

Amazon.com: I know George R.R. Martin says that all of his plotting is in his head. With Jordan, do you have copious notes, prose fragments, outlines, or anything of that nature to act as a guide for the future books?

 

Brandon Sanderson: Yes indeed, thankfully. As I mentioned, Mr. Jordan dictated quite a bit of material. Beyond that, he had notes, thoughts, outlines, and a large chunk of written material comprising many of the most important scenes. Beyond that, his wife was also his editor at Tor. She is one of the best in the business and has been with him from the beginning of this project. She is very close to it, and understands the characters and world nearly as well as Mr. Jordan did. With these resources at hand, I'm increasingly confident that we can complete this book in a way that will be very, very close to the way that Mr. Jordan would have done it himself.

 

 

 

Just something to think about before your next rant on exactly who's writting you are actually attacking eh

[mb]

what's the point of this thread? You only have to trawl through dragonmount forums to seep through the endless egwene hate. You got your emprical data right there

 

 

egwene is universally disliked her. just a few supporters. Written beautifully by the true author of the series. Rose through prominence in KOD and in TGS most of jordan's work was egwene related.

 

butchered apart by sanderson (as per usual) in TOM. what's new? ruined mat, aviendha and made talmanes a complete joke.

This poll I consider a good thing. A number of members may feel more comfortable voting than posting.

[Taryn]

Thank you for your response, Elan Tedronai. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

 

To explain, one would have to go through every post, and then write down each posters opinion, remembering that they could change their mind at any point. This is a simpler way to put the simple questions with simple answers all in one place. The point being, so that no one can throw around statements like "egwene is universally disliked her. just a few supporters" without actual empirical evidence.

 

Granted there are inconsistencies with polls (the way the questions are asked, the people who are in the sampling group, etc.). But the data so far suggests that Egwene is not universally disliked, its at more of a 45/55 split, which is exactly why a poll such as this is useful.

[Himiko]

I can't answer the second question, and so it won't let me answer the first.

 

The reason I can't answer the second question is that I honestly can't figure out if Egwene is being written the way she is intentionally, or if she is intended to be a broadly sympathetic character. If she is intentionally being written as she is, and this is explained in aMoL (Halima cumplusion, say) then she is very well written. If she is intended to be seen as a something other than the worst human being among the light-siders, she has been very badly written.

 

I'm with randsc on this one- I'm honestly not sure.

 

I think some aspects of her character have been badly written- as someone else has said, interactions with the AS, for example, that are meant to show how smart Egwene is, presumably, instead come across as showing how stupid almost all the highly ranked AS are. Which, since these are supposed to be amongst the best politicians in an organisation full of such types, this seems wierd. And mostly, it comes off this way, because, although Egwene certainly doesn't come across as stupid, she doesn't come across as a genius, either- much of what she says is common sense. She points out Elaida's failings, she plays the Hall to give her control of Rand, which only works because apparently everyone but her forgot that Rand went and got himself some nations, she manages to play the factions in the camp against each other, with Siuan's help, and she faces down Elaida, who goes on a batshit rant, and might as well have spent the meal yelling "Power has sent me craaazyyyyy!!!!". Seriously, if no other AS is smart enough to do all of the above, how has their organisation gained any power at all? Another thing is her friendships/ relationships with people- even before she had power over her friends, she liked to be their "superior", and didn't at all like taking orders from Nynaeve, and let's not even get into the whole ToM discussion about Gawyn. And yet, they're all, apparently, still her friends and think she's awesome? Really? Gawyn went from "Argh, she never listens to me!", and, through getting stabbed as a result, turns immediately to "I must see her will done!", and Nynaeve just forgets about the whole rape threat in TAR and is absolutely fine with Egwene letting her be tortured for political gain afterwards? There is not even the slightest hint of resentment there? I mean, Gawyn and Nynaeve, to continue my examples, are hardly the most even tempered characters in the whole series.

 

Actually, looking back, a lot of these points relate to how other characters are written WITH Egwene. It seems to me that sometimes other characters are written badly around Egwene to make her look better- if this had been the other way around, if she had done a bit more of "Take command of the novices, blow the Seanchan out of the sky" around other AS, instead of "I'll point out the obvious as you ask me to join your Ajah for being so awesome", a lot of her scenes would probably grate with me less.

 

In some ways, though, I think she is potentially very well written. If there turns out to be Compulsion on Egwene, forcing her actions, as Amyrlin of a reunited tower- potentially great set up. Even if not, then if she has been written as an example of a character who can be extremely unlikeable to many readers, and yet still be fighting the good fight, possibly similar to Cadsuane, then it shows a nice variety in the major characters heading for TG, on top of Rand's madness. However, this is based on conjecture- if she has been written to be a sympathetic character whose more questionable actions are supposed to be seem as admirable and strong, then RJ failed terribly, and BS is continuing in that respect. IMO, of course, I don't doubt there are others who feel differently.

 

I'm going to go with "No" for this question for now, as I feel there are legitimate flaws, for me, in how Egwene's scenes are written at times, whilst the assumption of her being brilliantly written kind of hinges on her being intentionally written to be dislikeable, which isn't something I'm willing to lay down money on. I hope AMoL changes my mind, however! And either way, at least her character continues to provoke strong emotions in people, which is a good thing.

 

As to the other questions- Dislike (didn't mind her so much in the first 2 books, firmly hated her by the end of TDR, if you want a specific point), and haven't changed my opinion.

[XXX]

The worst character in the series..I read in places that RJ modeled Egwene on his wife Harriet. If this is actually how he intended her to come out then it is not very faltering to his wife.

[capuga]

The worst character in the series..I read in places that RJ modeled Egwene on his wife Harriet. If this is actually how he intended her to come out then it is not very faltering to his wife.

 

He's said that all the females in the series have a little of Harriet in them. Not that Egwene or any other female was specifically modeled after her.

[rand4747]

Egwenes actions over all are fairly good, she has done what can only be dreamed of, BUT the way she deals with individuals are not. Especially if they are male but she does it to anyone. Some of her plans after becomming the full Amyrlin have backtracked though, her original plans/ideas before that were better imo. (To do with the oaths and also dealing with Rand) Big thing and she eventually realised it herself is the Gawyn fiasco. Also that bring an army to stop Rand breaking the seals, whats an army going to do, they can't stop him and they wont do anything to convince him. Im in the idea though that he "forced" her to do that with his Taveren nature to get ready for the enemy assault.

[XXX]

Ya..the part with her bringing an army to persuade Rand and saying that she hopes "he does not force her hand"...seems to be absolutely stupid. What will she do..fight the Dragon? Is her arrogance upto that level?

[Sleeper]

I'm not afraid to say that I quite dislike her and believe she was the most poorly written character in the series. Her story arc is just a little bit too unbelievable to me and her behavior in the last couple books has been poor to say the least.

[Elvira_Sedai]

Egwene is not only my favourite character in the series , but also the main reason of my liking the WoT . Her vision of the world is very similar to my own , but she has the qualities , which I lack , mainly great will power , energy and , when it's need , patience . I started liking her since the Ravens and the simpathy was only rising from book to the next one .

For her being written well ... I'm not a proffy here to criticize author , but it seems to me that RJ changed his mind about Egwene's importance somewhere in between .. so the first several books have lesser her parts than should be .