Demandred

[Barid Bel Medar]

i think it Shara. it would be a real easy place to take over and they can travel through gateways

 

It is not. We know that Demandred has been mentioned in the books.

 

I think you are misunderstanding RJ's quote here. While you could be right, I believe he was being a bit humorous. He didn't mean that Demandred, if he has an alter ego, appeared (in name) between 1-9. The question was should we be able to figure out who Demandred is. And the answer is simple. Yes. He is Demandred, one of the Forsaken. Thus the somewhat "yeah, obviously" reply of "Ummmm... Yeah."

 

Besides, even if he was referring to his alter ego. Being able to figure it out does not necessarily mean that the specific name of the character has been mentioned. It could just as easily mean we can figure out where he holds influence.

 

Point being, it is hardly proof that his alter ego is a name mentioned in 1-9.

 

Edit: Here is the quote I am referencing

 

Ruhira Sedai: We know who almost all the Forsaken are, except maybe Mesaana and Demandred. Should we be able to work out who they are?

 

RJ: Ummm.. Yeah.

 

Marcon, Columbus, OH, May 2001 - Sorilea reporting

 

A quote from 2001. How can we figure out who he is, if he isn't mentioned? And because the date, we know he is mentioned between book 1 and 9. So before CoT.

[yoniy0]

Only that's not the extent of what we know:

Mick Wick on Twitter - July 28 2010 1:38 am

Is it possible for us readers to figure out Demandred's identity with the information we already have?

 

Brandon - 4:32 pm

And now, Theoryland is holding its breath. I think I might have actually answered on tour. I'm not sure what RJ said on the matter, but...

 

I will say only this: There ARE clues. I think it could be figured out. Maybe. It's much, much harder than Asmodean's killer.

 

Obviously, I must be tight-lipped. Can it be figured out: Yes. Will it make you smack your heads & say "I should have seen it!" Probably not.

 

From the comments on Facebook

Richelle Perreault: Brandon, you are such a tease........ but I will "RAFO". but still it's a tease.

 

Brandon: Sorry. Inherited that from RJ. Still, it wasn't totally a RAFO. It was a tad more than that. I do see from Tamyrlin's post5 that RJ confirmed that you could figure it out.

 

Terez: ‎@Brandon: sort of. There was room in RJ's comment for the interpretation that we should be able to figure out that Demandred is simply Demandred. You have made it more clear. Not that we are complaining.

 

Brandon: Ah, I see. Well, let me add the official clarification onto what I've said: Basically, I'm not merely talking about "Alter Ego" here when I reply to the "Figure out Demandred's Identity" question. I look at that question as a larger "What he's been up to, what he's been influencing, where he's hiding" that sort of thing.

 

Why make this distinction? Well, it's because of things that (likely) others have figured out already. Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams. So energies focused on "exactly who is he" would be pointless, to an extent. If he is indeed imitating someone, you haven't seen that someone through most of the series. At least not in person. You may have seen them now, but if so, they haven't been on-screen for long.

 

So, what I'm saying is basically this: There are clues as to what Demandred is up to. You could figure that out. I think it would be hard, but not so hard that someone won't guess it. (And, knowing WoT fandom, someone probably has.)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Only that's not the extent of what we know:

Mick Wick on Twitter - July 28 2010 1:38 am

Is it possible for us readers to figure out Demandred's identity with the information we already have?

 

Brandon - 4:32 pm

And now, Theoryland is holding its breath. I think I might have actually answered on tour. I'm not sure what RJ said on the matter, but...

 

I will say only this: There ARE clues. I think it could be figured out. Maybe. It's much, much harder than Asmodean's killer.

 

Obviously, I must be tight-lipped. Can it be figured out: Yes. Will it make you smack your heads & say "I should have seen it!" Probably not.

 

From the comments on Facebook

Richelle Perreault: Brandon, you are such a tease........ but I will "RAFO". but still it's a tease.

 

Brandon: Sorry. Inherited that from RJ. Still, it wasn't totally a RAFO. It was a tad more than that. I do see from Tamyrlin's post5 that RJ confirmed that you could figure it out.

 

Terez: ‎@Brandon: sort of. There was room in RJ's comment for the interpretation that we should be able to figure out that Demandred is simply Demandred. You have made it more clear. Not that we are complaining.

 

Brandon: Ah, I see. Well, let me add the official clarification onto what I've said: Basically, I'm not merely talking about "Alter Ego" here when I reply to the "Figure out Demandred's Identity" question. I look at that question as a larger "What he's been up to, what he's been influencing, where he's hiding" that sort of thing.

 

Why make this distinction? Well, it's because of things that (likely) others have figured out already. Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams. So energies focused on "exactly who is he" would be pointless, to an extent. If he is indeed imitating someone, you haven't seen that someone through most of the series. At least not in person. You may have seen them now, but if so, they haven't been on-screen for long.

 

So, what I'm saying is basically this: There are clues as to what Demandred is up to. You could figure that out. I think it would be hard, but not so hard that someone won't guess it. (And, knowing WoT fandom, someone probably has.)

 

That supports my point. He was not talking about a specific "person". Merely we can figure out what he has been up to. For example, Shara had been mentioned in book 1-9. Thus, it is possible we could figure out that he was up to stuff in Shara. (I do not believe that he is, however, it cannot be ruled out.)

 

I was replying to the fact that Lyran was saying that only those characters mentioned in name in books 1-9 could be Demandred's alter ego.

 

Again, I am not saying this is not true, it could be that this is right, however, for the purposes of this thread, it cannot be seen as definitive proof to reject ideas of Shara, LoM or any other character that was not mentioned in 1-9

[yoniy0]

See, what he says after Terez revealed to him that his answer gives away more than he thought has to be suspect. But even if he meant it like that from the start, knowing that something is out there doesn't count as a clue that this is what Demandred has been doing. Certainly, it's not the 'something in the south' Sammael talked about. The revolt is completely explained by Graendal's interfering. What is there to point us Shara's way?

 

It could be figured out, not guessed at. That's what I'm taking away from this.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think there is some misunderstanding here, I am not sure if I am making myself clear, or you are just disagreeing with my point

 

I agree with you. It can be figured out.

 

And I also agree, it is most likely not Shara.

 

I was not saying that it was likely, just it couldn't be ruled out. Since we did get some information about Shara and what was going down in Shara in books 1-9.

 

My issue was with the poster stating that Demandred's alter ego's name has to be mentioned at one point in books 1-9.

 

This is not necessarily true. As you said, it can be figured out. For example, you could have figured out he was in Murandy or Seanchan. That does not necessarily mean that the specific name of his persona had to have been mentioned.

 

That is how I read it.

[yoniy0]

Yes, I agree (except, of course, I don't think we could figure out it's Murandy unless he's being Roedran), although I also think it's most likely that Brandon answered Mick Wick's question candidly and then attempted to take back what he could.

 

You know what interests me here most of all? Who are those friends in the south Sammael was talking about? Not friends, but friends. Who could they be?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yes, I agree (except, of course, I don't think we could figure out it's Murandy unless he's being Roedran), although I also think it's most likely that Brandon answered Mick Wick's question candidly and then attempted to take back what he could.

 

You know what interests me here most of all? Who are those friends in the south Sammael was talking about? Not friends, but friends. Who could they be?

 

Yeah, I mean, I agree. It is likely this is the case. I was just taking issue with the fact that it was being taken as cannon and dismissing any other possibility.

 

That has always interested me too.

 

IMO, the emphasis on friends could mean a few things.

 

1. Sammael was referring to a notorious group that Graendal knows, thus, it could be some specialized force.

 

2. He was using it disparagingly (which, considering the nature of the Forsaken, is extremely likely) and suggesting that he believes these "friends" are incompetent, or he considers them unworthy.

 

3. He could be talking about people unwittingly being used. Like the Illianers who were under his control. They were not really friends, because they didn't know they were fighting for the Shadow.

 

4. It could be a dig at Demandred, suggesting that it may come to conflict and that Demandred or the "friends" might not support Sammael, or even outright oppose him.

 

Just some possibilities to thing about,

[mb]

likely possibilities for south::

-Masema and Masema's followers

-Black Tower in Andor

-maybe Madmen Land

[CauthonsLuck]

Who's King Roedran?

[Finnssss22]

Who's King Roedran?

 

King of Murandy that employed the Band of the Rad Hand to "trick" the usually estranged and selfish factions of Murandy into assembling under his direction.

 

A tactic that every single person who knew or knew of him didn't think he was capable of.

It's one of the main linchpins for the Demandred is Roedran/Roedran is Demandred's proxy theories.

[Didgya]

Who else think that it will be like a Scooby Doo reveal in AMOL! "Its really Demondread....Jinkies....Zoinks!"

[Byzantine279]

I half wonder if it will be a Malazan esq reveal, ie they peel off one mask... and leave the remaining 100 still on, leaving you generally just as confused as the start, if not more so.

[DaoineSidhe]

While I am unable to name another name whom might be Demandred, after re-reading ToM recently, I do think that Alliandre being a proxy of Demandred's is something to consider. Almost all of her PoV scenes have sent alarm bells going off in my head, and after all, Perrin's fate seems the least safe of the three given the recently revealed Dark Prophecy. Having a proxy that close to Perrin would be a HUGE bonus for Demandred, and if the DO knew, would certainly give him high standing, I think.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Does anyone else entertain the theory that the proxy comment was a red-herring, and that Demandred hasn't actually had anything to do with more "earthly" matters. Thus, why he has been conspicuously absent, because he hasn't been doing mcuh in terms of kingdoms and such.

 

To adress the most obvious issue with this, his comment about "my rule is secure." Obviously this puts a huge hole through the theory, but I still think that it is possible to explain. Sammael, Be'lal and Rhavin pretty much snatched up their respective kingdoms up in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile, the first of Demandred's "rule" we hear of in tGS, at least 2 years after he was set free from the prison.

 

Graendal was able to hide herself, because she is a sneaky one, but Demandred, one would think, is more overt and domineering. I would say that if he had been ruling over a kingdom for 2 years, we would have noticed it, like we have with Sammael, Rahvin and Be'lal. Murandy, yes, is currently a strange factor. The king being an unknown factor that doesn't quite add up. He is attributed with skills nobody thought he possessed. However, that hardly compares to evidence of one of the Forsaken ruling the nation.

 

And if he were the King, why would his rule have taken so long to secure? Again, I mention Sammael and co who took their nations pretty simply. Murandy isn't exactly the most glamourous of places, it is not like he had to subdue the White Tower. The only point in favour is that Murandy is fractured and disloyal to any monarch, thus the difficultly. But 2 years? That suggests serious incompetence, has other things more important or using proxy.

 

Incompetence is possible, that politics and such is not his forte, however, from everything we know, Demandred is one of the most competent of all the Forsaken. He was, as they say, the second greatest man in the AoL.

 

2. Him having other things to do is likely. It is probable, in my opinion, that his acquisition of a nation has come pretty late in the game. Perhaps only a few weeks or months. It would explain the time frame, and his comment about his rule being secure. This, then, makes his whereabouts less important than what he has been doing for the majority of the time.

 

3. Using proxy. Obvious evidence to support this. But again, it makes the question of his proxy less important again. The real question would be, what has he himself been up to ?

 

Evidence that he has been given some special task is his story in Lord of Chaos. A total mystery to me, I have no idea what it means, but what I do know is that there is no way "securing Murandy" or Shara or Seanchan was that task. One does not get called to Shayol Ghul and then says "Have I not done well" for simply taking over a backwater nation. No, it suggests something far more important than that.

 

So, I actually have no idea what on earth he could have been doing, but my point is this: I believe people are too focused on placing him on the map, as a leader of a nation or trying to figure out his alter-ego (of which existence has not even been confirmed) when, I believe, the more important questions are, what has he actually been doing for the DO that was so special.

[Durinax]

the funny thing is that people who do not support the murandy theory are the ones that say it is backwater, insignificant, etc.

 

but one has to consider this:

 

they are powerful enough to have engaged andor in war many times and havent been destroyed. Meaning that murandy likely has a military as or nearly as powerful as andors (when united which seems to be against an external threat)

[RandA lThor]

I think that he is Paitar. He seems so strong and assured of himself that I think that he is Demandred. Also Paitar has his Borderland armies in the south and in the north so he can go a lot of places, not to mention that he can travel. He seems very weel placed, not someone that would be too overly obvious, but someone with power and influence.

[Finnssss22]

I think that he is Paitar. He seems so strong and assured of himself that I think that he is Demandred. Also Paitar has his Borderland armies in the south and in the north so he can go a lot of places, not to mention that he can travel. He seems very weel placed, not someone that would be too overly obvious, but someone with power and influence.

 

 

Unfortunately, we have been told that it can't be anyone we have seen on screen in books 1-11 or 13.

[Maleshub]

Unfortunately, we have been told that it can't be anyone we have seen on screen in books 1-11 or 13.

 

Thanks for the info, Finnsss. Would you be kind enough to supply a reference for further reading?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Here is the quote:

 

Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams. So energies focused on "exactly who is he" would be pointless, to an extent.

 

Here is the link to said quote and all other quotes regarding the authors' talking about Demandred. http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php

 

On a side note, this quote supports my thinking we shouldn't be too focused on who he is

[mb]

Paitar having Borderlander armies in south and in north; I do not recall that being told anywhere.

 

Demandred having Bordlander armies; both south and north seem doubtful to me. South, all they seemed to want was an answer to a question about a certain person's fate; and they seemed to agree with Rand's terms and seemed to believe he being the Dragon Reborn. North, the farmers I take were seeking to attack shadowspawn.

[bigdoug1971]

When we do find out, I hope it's not someone stupid or that we've been lied to just so we would talk about it as fans of the series.

[Silvaire]

Does anyone else entertain the theory that the proxy comment was a red-herring, and that Demandred hasn't actually had anything to do with more "earthly" matters. Thus, why he has been conspicuously absent, because he hasn't been doing mcuh in terms of kingdoms and such.

 

To adress the most obvious issue with this, his comment about "my rule is secure." Obviously this puts a huge hole through the theory, but I still think that it is possible to explain. Sammael, Be'lal and Rhavin pretty much snatched up their respective kingdoms up in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile, the first of Demandred's "rule" we hear of in tGS, at least 2 years after he was set free from the prison.

 

Graendal was able to hide herself, because she is a sneaky one, but Demandred, one would think, is more overt and domineering. I would say that if he had been ruling over a kingdom for 2 years, we would have noticed it, like we have with Sammael, Rahvin and Be'lal. Murandy, yes, is currently a strange factor. The king being an unknown factor that doesn't quite add up. He is attributed with skills nobody thought he possessed. However, that hardly compares to evidence of one of the Forsaken ruling the nation.

 

And if he were the King, why would his rule have taken so long to secure? Again, I mention Sammael and co who took their nations pretty simply. Murandy isn't exactly the most glamourous of places, it is not like he had to subdue the White Tower. The only point in favour is that Murandy is fractured and disloyal to any monarch, thus the difficultly. But 2 years? That suggests serious incompetence, has other things more important or using proxy.

 

Incompetence is possible, that politics and such is not his forte, however, from everything we know, Demandred is one of the most competent of all the Forsaken. He was, as they say, the second greatest man in the AoL.

 

2. Him having other things to do is likely. It is probable, in my opinion, that his acquisition of a nation has come pretty late in the game. Perhaps only a few weeks or months. It would explain the time frame, and his comment about his rule being secure. This, then, makes his whereabouts less important than what he has been doing for the majority of the time.

 

3. Using proxy. Obvious evidence to support this. But again, it makes the question of his proxy less important again. The real question would be, what has he himself been up to ?

 

Evidence that he has been given some special task is his story in Lord of Chaos. A total mystery to me, I have no idea what it means, but what I do know is that there is no way "securing Murandy" or Shara or Seanchan was that task. One does not get called to Shayol Ghul and then says "Have I not done well" for simply taking over a backwater nation. No, it suggests something far more important than that.

 

So, I actually have no idea what on earth he could have been doing, but my point is this: I believe people are too focused on placing him on the map, as a leader of a nation or trying to figure out his alter-ego (of which existence has not even been confirmed) when, I believe, the more important questions are, what has he actually been doing for the DO that was so special.

 

I agree completely with this logic and also think that the question people should be asking is how Demandred is going to be so decisive in advancing the Shadow's cause in the last book. My thoughts are that he has remained off-scene for so long, and has pleased the Dark One directly to suggest he is really marshaling some kind of trump card for the Shadow in the martial portion of the Last Battle. I believe he will be responsible for an overwhelming attack on the civilians of Randland left behind when the armies try to assemble against the relatively unknown threat from the Blight and that this attack will serve to demoralize Rand's forces, get them to fight amongst themselves on how to respond to it, and cause Rand to question himself and his purpose (especially after how confident he is in ToM). I believe this is exactly the kind of pain that Demandred would want to cause to Rand.

 

As to where he is, what he is doing, and if at the same time, he also happens to be the current King of Murandy, these are all secondary considerations.

[Edynol]

I think he is in charge of the red-veiled Aiel people, Who I think are either from the Isle of Madmen or Shara. Shara is very distant from the rest of the world. The whole kingdom could probably sink into the ground and no one would know about it for months or years.

[mb]

From my understanding, the furthest any Aiel got was to Shara's outer walls; and that they never left the continent.

Only person that escaped Shara I take was Jain Farstider.

 

Main group of people that visited Madmen Land I take was the Sea Folk; no other group/culture.

[Edynol]

Yeah. So maybe those red-veiled Aiel are ones that didn't escape from Shara and are following Dem.