Are the Amyrlin and Dragon Equal?

[XXX]

Egwene is the most ruthless. Against a vastly superior foe, there is always the equalizer. BALEFIRE.

 

If Moraine had used balefire on Aginor and Balthamael, her kill count would be 3.

 

 

She did not know how to make balefire at that time IIRC.

 

And I do not remember..that shield which Rand made to protect himself from Dashiva's attack in the palace, can that stop balefire?

[Guest PiotrekS]

I've always had the impression Egwene was not very skilled in the One Power because her Aes Sedai training (in which she was doing fine) was cut short when she went to the Aiel and began to spend her time either in TAR, or performing all these running around the camp etc. the WOs demanded of her. It seemed she had no time for additional training. That was one of the reasons her arc in TGS seemed to me to be totally unbelievable, with her sudden technical proficiency in weaving she'd showed very little of before.

 

One has also to remember that in TGS she impressed the Aes Sedai in Elaida's Tower - the strongest and most skilled were out of that place, those left were probably very average and would be impressed by any of the Super Girls. I would give her more credit for it if she had impressed Cadsuane, Moiraine or Nynaeve. Imperessing guards in degenerated Elaida's Tower, the Aes Sedai at their worst - not very impressive IMHO.

 

I also remember it said in the books that Nynaeve had to see a weave only once to learn it. The speed with which one learns is universally acknowledged as one of signs of intelligence, therefore we can safely assume Nynaeve had "channeling intelligence" which would result in her gaining considerable skill with experience. I find the argument that Nynaeve was only strong but unskilled apart from her healing talent to be very unpersuasive.

 

All the points about Nynaeve being "just a good healer, too much specialization" etc. - I suspect came before Nynaeve gained considerable experience in channeling other than healing. We see her weave balefire, we see her channel through Choedan Kal to help cleanse Saidin, we see her link to use the Bowl of Winds. In last books she channels a variety of weaves and is no longer "only a healer". Egwene sadly lacks this varied and quite unique experience, so I would say she is just a good channeler, both strong and skilled, but nobody too exceptional. Her main strengths lie in Dreaming and political abilities.

 

Btw, Egwene and Nynaeve will not fight, so the whole point is moot

[Suttree]

Egwene is the most ruthless. Against a vastly superior foe, there is always the equalizer. BALEFIRE.

 

If Moraine had used balefire on Aginor and Balthamael, her kill count would be 3.

 

 

She did not know how to make balefire at that time IIRC.

 

And I do not remember..that shield which Rand made to protect himself from Dashiva's attack in the palace, can that stop balefire?

 

No

[Entreri]

It's quite obvious this "ruthlessness" argument is based on your reluctance to give any credit to Egwene despite that you agree my position is more likely than your own. You just try in vain to make it a negative.

 

As for candle to bonfire and all that jazz, you still confuse everything with OP strength. Aes Sedai are obsessed with OP strength, their hierarchy is based on it. I never said Egwene is stronger than Nyn, so your evidence of her strength and strength alone is pointless given what we know from RJ himself -- Egwene is not that much lower.

 

On channeler strength: he said that he knew the rough strength of every channeler in the books, imposed on a 21-graded scale. Nynaeve he said had Forsaken strength, i.e. as strong as most female Forsaken. Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha were a step lower, and an additional step lower Elaida, Siuan and Moiraine were found. They were the strongest Aes Sedai known before "the new ones". Several Aes Sedai, including Leane and Kiruna, were next in strength. By the old standards they were deemed very strong and capable.

 

 

My comment on ruthlessness was to give her credit. She is the most mentally strongest of all young women, which would be a great asset in any combat.

 

Yes, she is a step below even the weakest of the female Forsaken, not a step below Lanfear.

 

The strength of Semirhage, Messana and Moghdien seperate Egwene from Nyaneve. Thus with certainty, she is VERY MUCH WEAKER than Nynaeve. Nynaeve herself is much weaker than Alivia or Lanfear.

 

 

And you brought up Sumeko, seriously? What has she done? She is not at even Elayne's level of accomplishments, let alone Egwene or the greatest AS of this Age/Nynaeve. Sumeko is weak trash.

 

Nynave: Cured severing, cured madness, "invented" new form of healing, defeated Mohgidien as an Accepted. Book 14? You can bet that she will accomplish more impossible deeds.

 

As for OP strength, clearly you are the one that is confused in that regards, and I have shown.

 

While Talent has a part to play in combat, cetrius paribus, strength is the deciding factor.

[Kahsm]

I've always had the impression Egwene was not very skilled in the One Power because her Aes Sedai training (in which she was doing fine) was cut short when she went to the Aiel and began to spend her time either in TAR, or performing all these running around the camp etc. the WOs demanded of her. It seemed she had no time for additional training. That was one of the reasons her arc in TGS seemed to me to be totally unbelievable, with her sudden technical proficiency in weaving she'd showed very little of before.

 

Except I gave a quote where she's told there's nothing to teach her... so yeah. She also got seanchan training, to make that totally believable. That's what they do.

 

One has also to remember that in TGS she impressed the Aes Sedai in Elaida's Tower - the strongest and most skilled were out of that place, those left were probably very average and would be impressed by any of the Super Girls. I would give her more credit for it if she had impressed Cadsuane, Moiraine or Nynaeve. Imperessing guards in degenerated Elaida's Tower, the Aes Sedai at their worst - not very impressive IMHO.

 

Again, you didn't read the point. They CANNOT be surprised by Egg's strength. They feel it the moment they meet her. Also, I didn't say she's awesome because they were impressed. I even argue against that logic for Naeff being impressed with Rand. What I SAID was, she must be doing something spectacular in regards to splitting because if it were generally based on strength, even if they are much weaker, they would still have an idea of how much a channeler Eggs' strength could split. They were shocked because it was more than that. So their relative abilities are irrelevant.

 

I also remember it said in the books that Nynaeve had to see a weave only once to learn it. The speed with which one learns is universally acknowledged as one of signs of intelligence, therefore we can safely assume Nynaeve had "channeling intelligence" which would result in her gaining considerable skill with experience. I find the argument that Nynaeve was only strong but unskilled apart from her healing talent to be very unpersuasive.

 

She leans quickly, absolutely. This doesn't mean much regards to what she has learnt and how well she weaves it. Nowhere does it says she does it perfect and as quick as anyone can weave the first time, just that she can do it.

 

Cads calls Nyn's channeling "dismal" so it's obvious that learning it after seeing it once, doesn't mean she necessarily does it well.

 

All the points about Nynaeve being "just a good healer, too much specialization" etc. - I suspect came before Nynaeve gained considerable experience in channeling other than healing. We see her weave balefire, we see her channel through Choedan Kal to help cleanse Saidin, we see her link to use the Bowl of Winds. In last books she channels a variety of weaves and is no longer "only a healer". Egwene sadly lacks this varied and quite unique experience, so I would say she is just a good channeler, both strong and skilled, but nobody too exceptional. Her main strengths lie in Dreaming and political abilities.

 

One shot things and individual weaves show no real agility or prowess in general skill with the weaves she knows. All the book evidence points to her not caring enough to learn non healing things as well as Eggs. And there is zero evidence she can split half as much, and is evidence to suggest Egwene splits much more than she should be capable.

[Entreri]

I've always had the impression Egwene was not very skilled in the One Power because her Aes Sedai training (in which she was doing fine) was cut short when she went to the Aiel and began to spend her time either in TAR, or performing all these running around the camp etc. the WOs demanded of her. It seemed she had no time for additional training. That was one of the reasons her arc in TGS seemed to me to be totally unbelievable, with her sudden technical proficiency in weaving she'd showed very little of before.

 

One has also to remember that in TGS she impressed the Aes Sedai in Elaida's Tower - the strongest and most skilled were out of that place, those left were probably very average and would be impressed by any of the Super Girls. I would give her more credit for it if she had impressed Cadsuane, Moiraine or Nynaeve. Imperessing guards in degenerated Elaida's Tower, the Aes Sedai at their worst - not very impressive IMHO.

 

I also remember it said in the books that Nynaeve had to see a weave only once to learn it. The speed with which one learns is universally acknowledged as one of signs of intelligence, therefore we can safely assume Nynaeve had "channeling intelligence" which would result in her gaining considerable skill with experience. I find the argument that Nynaeve was only strong but unskilled apart from her healing talent to be very unpersuasive.

 

All the points about Nynaeve being "just a good healer, too much specialization" etc. - I suspect came before Nynaeve gained considerable experience in channeling other than healing. We see her weave balefire, we see her channel through Choedan Kal to help cleanse Saidin, we see her link to use the Bowl of Winds. In last books she channels a variety of weaves and is no longer "only a healer". Egwene sadly lacks this varied and quite unique experience, so I would say she is just a good channeler, both strong and skilled, but nobody too exceptional. Her main strengths lie in Dreaming and political abilities.

 

Btw, Egwene and Nynaeve will not fight, so the whole point is moot

 

Exactly. The novels have shown time and again, Nyaneve's superior skills.

[sleepinghour]

Regarding Sumeko, she is 300-400 years old (one of the oldest Kin after Reanne), while Nynaeve has been consciously channeling for two years and unblocked for only a few months. According to the Kin, skills are honed with time, so it's really not surprising that Sumeko would have more skill than Nynaeve at this point. Everybody else who's seen Nynaeve's Healing weaves have been amazed at how complex they were, including Egwene:

 

I saw it, Egwene thought. I...think I did. She was not sure she had even been able to make out all the many flows, much less the way Nynaeve had woven them together. What Nynaeve had done in those few seconds had seemed like weaving four carpets at once while blindfolded.

I also got the impression Sumeko was a bit resentful/jealous of Nynaeve. Sumeko herself badly wanted to be Yellow Ajah but was kicked out of the Tower when she failed her AS test. She might have been a bit annoyed that Nynaeve got to be Yellow despite not having taken the AS test at that point. And if Nynaeve hadn't discovered the new Healing method, Sumeko would have been the only one that used it and introduced it to the Aes Sedai, so Nynaeve sort of stole her thunder.

 

If you had actually bothered to look at the later books (your Egwene quote was from KoD while all the Nynaeve ones were from earlier books), Nynaeve herself thinks her skills are improving:

 

She'd [Nynaeve] found similar corruption recently in other Asha'man. Her skill with Delving was improving, her weaves more refined, and she could find things once hidden to her.

Cads calls Nyn's channeling "dismal" so it's obvious that learning it after seeing it once, doesn't mean she necessarily does it well.

That's not what the problem is--it's that Nynaeve, due to her block and lack of interest in anything except Healing, never learned the weaves in the first place:

 

Often they wanted her to teach things she [Nynaeve] did not know as well as others--too often, things she barely knew at all, she admitted reluctantly; she had not really had much training in the Tower--and whenever she fumbled in the slightest, Renaile positively delighted in making her sweat.

When she is shown weaves, she has no difficulty copying them well:

 

"Here is the eighty-first weave," the White said. The glow of saidar sprang up around her, and she channeled, crafting a very complex weave of Fire, Air and Spirit. Complex, but useless. [...]

Nynaeve waved an indifferent hand, repeating the weave exactly. "Honestly," she said, "that one seems the most useless of the bunch! What is the point of all of these?"

Daigian pursed her lips. She said nothing, but Nynaeve knew that Daigian thought that this all should be far more difficult for Nynaeve than it was. Eventually, the woman spoke. "You cannot be told much about the testing. The only thing I can say is that you will need to repeat these weaves exactly, and do so while undergoing extreme distraction. When the time comes, you will understand."

"I doubt it," Nynaeve said flatly, copying the weave three times over while she spoke.

So calling Nynaeve "just strong, and now a good healer" is inaccurate, IMO.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I've always had the impression Egwene was not very skilled in the One Power because her Aes Sedai training (in which she was doing fine) was cut short when she went to the Aiel and began to spend her time either in TAR, or performing all these running around the camp etc. the WOs demanded of her. It seemed she had no time for additional training. That was one of the reasons her arc in TGS seemed to me to be totally unbelievable, with her sudden technical proficiency in weaving she'd showed very little of before.

 

Except I gave a quote where she's told there's nothing to teach her... so yeah. She also got seanchan training, to make that totally believable. That's what they do.

 

I unfortunately don't remember who said that to Egwene and when. The significance of the quote depends on that. And even if current Aes Sedai don't have much to teach Egwene, it does not mean she surpasses Nynaeve who has done things Aes Sedai couldn't even dream of (cleansing the Taint, healing stilling, healing madness).

 

Seanchan training was short and extremely narrow in scope - she was blasting things from afar and detecting metals. What it contributed to was forcing Egwene's strength earlier than other Super Girls. It is a fact that her Aes Sedai training was cut short and that she has not been able to practice when with the Wise Ones (she was hard pressed with Dreaming training and all apprentice's obligations). In Salidar she concentrated on politics. When did she have the time to gain the technical proficiency in weaving? I find this "jump" to be unbelievable.

One has also to remember that in TGS she impressed the Aes Sedai in Elaida's Tower - the strongest and most skilled were out of that place, those left were probably very average and would be impressed by any of the Super Girls. I would give her more credit for it if she had impressed Cadsuane, Moiraine or Nynaeve. Imperessing guards in degenerated Elaida's Tower, the Aes Sedai at their worst - not very impressive IMHO.

 

Again, you didn't read the point. They CANNOT be surprised by Egg's strength. They feel it the moment they meet her. Also, I didn't say she's awesome because they were impressed. I even argue against that logic for Naeff being impressed with Rand. What I SAID was, she must be doing something spectacular in regards to splitting because if it were generally based on strength, even if they are much weaker, they would still have an idea of how much a channeler Eggs' strength could split. They were shocked because it was more than that. So their relative abilities are irrelevant.

 

I understand your point. I simply say that whether they were impressed with Egwene's weaving skills - which I accept to be distinct from raw strength for the sake of our debate - is not very relevant since their own skills and knowledge were probably quite low and they would be impresssed by the skills of any one of the Super Girls.

I also remember it said in the books that Nynaeve had to see a weave only once to learn it. The speed with which one learns is universally acknowledged as one of signs of intelligence, therefore we can safely assume Nynaeve had "channeling intelligence" which would result in her gaining considerable skill with experience. I find the argument that Nynaeve was only strong but unskilled apart from her healing talent to be very unpersuasive.

 

She leans quickly, absolutely. This doesn't mean much regards to what she has learnt and how well she weaves it. Nowhere does it says she does it perfect and as quick as anyone can weave the first time, just that she can do it.

 

Cads calls Nyn's channeling "dismal" so it's obvious that learning it after seeing it once, doesn't mean she necessarily does it well.

 

I pointed out that the speed of learning is an element of wider potentiial, a sign of general intelligence. Therefore the fact that Nynaeve learns quickly makes it more probable that she also achieves more and more subtle skills just as she gains experience with various kinds of weaves.

All the points about Nynaeve being "just a good healer, too much specialization" etc. - I suspect came before Nynaeve gained considerable experience in channeling other than healing. We see her weave balefire, we see her channel through Choedan Kal to help cleanse Saidin, we see her link to use the Bowl of Winds. In last books she channels a variety of weaves and is no longer "only a healer". Egwene sadly lacks this varied and quite unique experience, so I would say she is just a good channeler, both strong and skilled, but nobody too exceptional. Her main strengths lie in Dreaming and political abilities.

 

One shot things and individual weaves show no real agility or prowess in general skill with the weaves she knows. All the book evidence points to her not caring enough to learn non healing things as well as Eggs. And there is zero evidence she can split half as much, and is evidence to suggest Egwene splits much more than she should be capable.

 

"One shot things and individual weaves" definietly show agility and prowess in general skill - your ability to achieve some wondeful and unique successes has to draw on your general skill, hasn't it? Nynaeve "not caring about nothing but healing" is Nynaeve from the early books, before she embraced being an Aes Sedai.

[Elan Tedronai]

I have always wondered what elayne has done to be lumped in with the super girl territory.

 

Nynaeve: cured severing and healing.

Egwene: Travelling and making cueindillar.

elayne?

[sleepinghour]

I have always wondered what elayne has done to be lumped in with the super girl territory.

Elayne is the only one since the Breaking to make ter'angreal and has some skill at manipulating the weather as well, which she did to speed up the boat in FoH.

 

She also successfully disguised herself as a Forsaken while wearing pink slippers, that's got to count for something.

 

Unaccountably, they seemed reluctant to talk of anything but Nynaeve’s Healing Siuan and Leane — Nynaeve repeated three times rather anxiously that Healing Logain had been an accident — and Elayne’s work with ter’angreal. Those were remarkable feats, especially Nynaeve’s, but there was only so much they could say, and there were only so many times Egwene could tell them how marvelous what they had done was and how much she envied them. Trying to demonstrate did not last long; Egwene had no real feel for Healing, especially not this complicated tapestry Nynaeve wove without thought, and though she had an affinity for metals and very good strength in both Fire and Earth, Elayne lost her almost immediately.

They all have completely different Talents and can do something the others can't. So comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges, for the most part.

[MasterAblar]

I have always wondered what elayne has done to be lumped in with the super girl territory.

 

Nynaeve: cured severing and healing.

Egwene: Travelling and making cueindillar.

elayne?

 

She rediscovered how to make terangeal. She seems to be a well rounded channeler.

[Ala Rubra]

IMO, the reason Nynaeve's weaving was often criticized is because unlike Egwene and other normally skilled channelers, Nynaeve never had to practice anything but Healing, and that only because she was constantly pushing the limits of what she was capable. Anything other weave she saw she could reproduce easily, making practice completely unnecessary. IMO, it wasn't until she started learning the needlessly complex 100 weaves, which Daigian actually made her repeat multiple times, that her overall level of refinement and skill started to really increase.

[Mr Ares]

Egwene is below Mohgidien. Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage. Nynaeve is slightly stronger than Semirhage.

 

Thus Egwene is much weaker than Nyaneve and would get easily annihilated in an OP fight. Luckily for her, she fought a Forsaken in TAR.

Do you have any support for the bolded?

 

 

Moraine said with training Ny will be like a bonfire to Egwene's candle..so it bears to reason that with training when Ny can access all her strength she will be much more powerful.

She can access her full strength without training - she just needs to be angry enough. So I'd say it doesn't bear to reason. No, without any training Nynaeve will be stronger - but that won't make her a bonfire next to their candles.

[MasterAblar]

Egwene is below Mohgidien. Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage. Nynaeve is slightly stronger than Semirhage.

 

Thus Egwene is much weaker than Nyaneve and would get easily annihilated in an OP fight. Luckily for her, she fought a Forsaken in TAR.

Do you have any support for the bolded?

 

Semirhage is definitely stronger than Moghedien as Sanderson said that she is very close to Nyneave in strength and Nyneave equaled Moghedien as sono as tSR. As for Mesaana, she could be anywhere from stronger than Semirhage to weaker than Moghedien, as well as in between of course. However the first is very unlikely as Mesaana wouldn't have failed to say so when she compared herself to Semirhage in LoC if she was, and the second is also rather unlikely since it would be ridiculous for Mesaana to compare herself to Semirhage as she did if there was really such an enormous gap between the two. I know you have to take into account the forsakens' arrogance but it would still be rather excessive. And the position of weakest seems to be most fitting to Moghedien. Which is hardly proof of course, but overall the "Semirhage, Mesaana, Moghedien" order (from strongest to weakest) seems most probable.

[sleepinghour]

Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana according to Brandon, so Semirhage has to be as well.

 

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

 

Brandon was pretty certain that Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana, who isn’t particularly strong in Forsaken terms.

[Kahsm]

So Egwene works hard to better herself at just about anything BUT healing. Nynaeve is distracted, extremely specialized, has done some one-off things completely unrelated to practical channeling.

 

There are zero quotes criticizing Eggs for anything, there are quite a few, even some from the author about Nyn. And the only real evidence Nyn might be better is that her strength potential is higher, and she quickly remembers weave.

 

I will gladly admit we don't know Nyn's splitting potential, but Egwene wasn't exactly straining herself either. So if you want to believe Nyn is just as good or better that's up to you, but it's counter to current evidence. Also, Egwene is effectively the green, Nynaeve is the Yellow. So from that alone, it makes sense. Just like when BS was asked if Rand was a dreamer he said 'no that's Egwene's thing'. Well TGS suggests so is being badass Aes Sedai OP fighter. And we know from Maradon, multi-weaving and endurance is just as key if not more than raw power.

[Entreri]

So Egwene works hard to better herself at just about anything BUT healing. Nynaeve is distracted, extremely specialized, has done some one-off things completely unrelated to practical channeling.

 

There are zero quotes criticizing Eggs for anything, there are quite a few, even some from the author about Nyn. And the only real evidence Nyn might be better is that her strength potential is higher, and she quickly remembers weave.

 

I will gladly admit we don't know Nyn's splitting potential, but Egwene wasn't exactly straining herself either. So if you want to believe Nyn is just as good or better that's up to you, but it's counter to current evidence. Also, Egwene is effectively the green, Nynaeve is the Yellow. So from that alone, it makes sense. Just like when BS was asked if Rand was a dreamer he said 'no that's Egwene's thing'. Well TGS suggests so is being badass Aes Sedai OP fighter. And we know from Maradon, multi-weaving and endurance is just as key if not more than raw power.

 

"zero quotes criticizing Eggs for anything"

 

Now you are just being silly. Too much biased worship of Egwene.

[MasterAblar]

So Egwene works hard to better herself at just about anything BUT healing. Nynaeve is distracted, extremely specialized, has done some one-off things completely unrelated to practical channeling.

 

There are zero quotes criticizing Eggs for anything, there are quite a few, even some from the author about Nyn. And the only real evidence Nyn might be better is that her strength potential is higher, and she quickly remembers weave.

 

I will gladly admit we don't know Nyn's splitting potential, but Egwene wasn't exactly straining herself either. So if you want to believe Nyn is just as good or better that's up to you, but it's counter to current evidence. Also, Egwene is effectively the green, Nynaeve is the Yellow. So from that alone, it makes sense. Just like when BS was asked if Rand was a dreamer he said 'no that's Egwene's thing'. Well TGS suggests so is being badass Aes Sedai OP fighter. And we know from Maradon, multi-weaving and endurance is just as key if not more than raw power.

 

Nyneave may be yellow but she seems to be quite a bit about protecting as well and is just as determined to fight the shadow as Egwene. They have about the same experience in fighting and have both come off pretty well with a few exceptions. In any case Nyneave doesn't hold back in a fight. And only she, Cadsuane and Logain came out unscathed of the encounter with Semirhage. And considering how she held up during the cleansing I don't think endurance would be an issue for her. So I don't really how Egwene is any more badass than Nyneave as a fighter. She's just a well rounded channeler, who isn't weak in any particular area.

[sleepinghour]

Also, Egwene is effectively the green, Nynaeve is the Yellow. So from that alone, it makes sense. Just like when BS was asked if Rand was a dreamer he said 'no that's Egwene's thing'. Well TGS suggests so is being badass Aes Sedai OP fighter.

In TGS, Egwene was using the Tower's strongest sa'angreal, linked with other channelers, and blasting people from a distance where they couldn't strike back at her. Which is pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel. How many channelers (anywhere close to her own strength, let alone stronger) has she fought face-to-face with the OP?

[XXX]

 

 

Moraine said with training Ny will be like a bonfire to Egwene's candle..so it bears to reason that with training when Ny can access all her strength she will be much more powerful.

She can access her full strength without training - she just needs to be angry enough. So I'd say it doesn't bear to reason. No, without any training Nynaeve will be stronger - but that won't make her a bonfire next to their candles.

 

That does not make any sense.. both Egwene and Ny will get the same amount of training..the difference is the amount of strength each have, as that is the only thing Moraine is able to gauge. Moraine does not anything about how well Egwene and Ny will learn..she is going by the only thing she can gauge. Ny is much more powerful.

[David Selig]

Moiraine's quote about bonfire and candles is clearly a huge exaggeration. To be even partly true, Nynaeve has to be 4-5 times stronger than Egwene (because a bonfire is way brighter than a candle), and this doesn't fit at all with all the other info on their respective strengths.

[XXX]

Moiraine's quote about bonfire and candles is clearly a huge exaggeration. To be even partly true, Nynaeve has to be 4-5 times stronger than Egwene (because a bonfire is way brighter than a candle), and this doesn't fit at all with all the other info on their respective strengths.

 

Why would it be an exaggeration..nothing in the books contradict it, Nynaeve is always written as stronger with Egwene or Avi or Elayne not even close to her.

[David Selig]

Stronger, but not many times stronger or even twice. Ranking channelling strength never interested me much, but from what I've seen, pretty much everyone agrees Nynaeve is between 40-80% stronger than Egwene and Elayne, not 5 times or more. One example - if Nynaeve was many times stronger than Elayne, she'd have had no trouble shielding her when tried to in ACOS when Elayne got drunk through the bond with Birgitte - but instead Nynaeve totally failed when she attempted it.

[Kahsm]

"zero quotes criticizing Eggs for anything"

 

Now you are just being silly. Too much biased worship of Egwene.

 

OP related quotes, Given the discussion's context I thought you'd be able to figure that out. And if you consider even that wong, feel free to produce some. Only 'criticism' I remember is Verin telling Egwene she's too eager, while fear of the OP slows other novices to a 'safe' speed of progress. And that's not really a bad thing given she also says Moir was the same way.

 

Even if they had the same training (don't remember when Nyn got damane training, no matter how brief, but whatever), that doesn't mean they learned the same things. Egwene is shown to crave more, most of you admit this in a negative context but deny it now trying to suggest Nyn's "I am the best already and no one can teach me anything" attitude somehow still gives her equal prowess in combat.

 

You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

Yes Nyn is stronger, but no female has come close to replicating what Egwene has done with the 14 flows or blasting the seanchan from the sky. Furthermore, she's more skilled with earth and fire. Nyn does ONE thing with lots of power a few times and she is somehow as agile as Egwene has been shown to be for what reason?

[Durinax]

You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

actually egwene is ruthless in combat, the most ruthless character we have seen, her own thoughts was I must destroy them all, and such. She is one of the few characters we see who strikes at a retreating human army