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Are the Amyrlin and Dragon Equal?


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You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

actually egwene is ruthless in combat, the most ruthless character we have seen, her own thoughts was I must destroy them all, and such. She is one of the few characters we see who strikes at a retreating human army

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You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

actually egwene is ruthless in combat, the most ruthless character we have seen, her own thoughts was I must destroy them all, and such. She is one of the few characters we see who strikes at a retreating human army

 

Are you referring to the Seanchan because that is really not the best example? Wanting revenge on people who tried to enslave you and make you less than human, then brought death and destruction to your doorstep can't exactly be called ruthless.

 

In TGS, Egwene was using the Tower's strongest sa'angreal, linked with other channelers, and blasting people from a distance where they couldn't strike back at her. Which is pretty much like shooting fish in a barrel. How many channelers (anywhere close to her own strength, let alone stronger) has she fought face-to-face with the OP?

 

To be fair she was also stoned on forkroot which makes concentration and dexterity very difficult. That was an impressive showing no matter how you look at it...

Edited by Suttree
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You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

actually egwene is ruthless in combat, the most ruthless character we have seen, her own thoughts was I must destroy them all, and such. She is one of the few characters we see who strikes at a retreating human army

 

Are you referring to the Seanchan because that is really not the best example? Wanting revenge on people who tried to enslave you and make you less than human, then brought death and destruction to your doorstep can't exactly be called ruthless.

 

Agree. Also, she was killing knowing captured Aes Sedai would die, but thinking death is better than being collared. Quibble with the ethics of that if you like, but that means she felt pitty, and pitty is the opposite of ruthless.

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You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

actually egwene is ruthless in combat, the most ruthless character we have seen, her own thoughts was I must destroy them all, and such. She is one of the few characters we see who strikes at a retreating human army

 

Are you referring to the Seanchan because that is really not the best example? Wanting revenge on people who tried to enslave you and make you less than human, then brought death and destruction to your doorstep can't exactly be called ruthless.

 

Agree. Also, she was killing knowing captured Aes Sedai would die, but thinking death is better than being collared. Quibble with the ethics of that if you like, but that means she felt pitty, and pitty is the opposite of ruthless.

I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is a terrible example and you know it.

Mmhmm. As Suttree pointed out, the Seanchan were not going to get or offer any mercy. But Egwene did give mercy (as she sees it) to those Aes Sedai she saved from being collared. And given Egwene's near crippling phobia of being collared again, her intentions are believable.

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"zero quotes criticizing Eggs for anything"

 

Now you are just being silly. Too much biased worship of Egwene.

 

OP related quotes, Given the discussion's context I thought you'd be able to figure that out. And if you consider even that wong, feel free to produce some. Only 'criticism' I remember is Verin telling Egwene she's too eager, while fear of the OP slows other novices to a 'safe' speed of progress. And that's not really a bad thing given she also says Moir was the same way.

 

Even if they had the same training (don't remember when Nyn got damane training, no matter how brief, but whatever), that doesn't mean they learned the same things. Egwene is shown to crave more, most of you admit this in a negative context but deny it now trying to suggest Nyn's "I am the best already and no one can teach me anything" attitude somehow still gives her equal prowess in combat.

 

You'll also make claims like "Jordan loves Egwene so muuch blah blah blah" but deny her any credit unless you can spin it negatively. That whole "She's good at combat because she's ruthless." Was ridiculous. Is Lan ruthless? Does "the oneness" make someone ruthless or blood thirsty?" No, combat is about self control. And given Egwene's lack of hysterics over Cairhien while Elayne fretted, we know Egwene has it; Cadsuane has it, endure what must be endured and all that; Rand has it, flame and void; Nynaeve does not have it. And that's what makes her good at healing.

 

Yes Nyn is stronger, but no female has come close to replicating what Egwene has done with the 14 flows or blasting the seanchan from the sky. Furthermore, she's more skilled with earth and fire. Nyn does ONE thing with lots of power a few times and she is somehow as agile as Egwene has been shown to be for what reason?

 

OP related, I have shown why you were completely wrong. Nynaeve is indeed very much stronger than Egwene in that regard. I have shown this, and many others have, including quotes from Brandon.

 

And others have shown your error regarding your statements of Egwene's having a greater capacity to split her weaves than Nyaneve. You have no proof.

 

Criticism of Egwene, come now. All the characters have been criticized by others in the series, regarding OP, character faults, brains, TAR abilities etc.

 

Blasting Seanchan using the strongest sa'angreal in the Tower and linked to others beside. Yeah...In terms of OP, it would have been very impressive if she stood toe-to-toe with a Forsaken (I wonder how that would turn out :), which Nyaneve has done. Hmmm...oh yes, Egwene and Aviehnda tried to fight Lanfear...

 

Case closed.

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Egwene is below Mohgidien. Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage. Nynaeve is slightly stronger than Semirhage.

 

Thus Egwene is much weaker than Nyaneve and would get easily annihilated in an OP fight. Luckily for her, she fought a Forsaken in TAR.

 

I've seen this all to often lately, posters using an unsubstantiated claim as fact, and then drawing a totally separate conclusion...even if we did have proof that forsaken ranking is correct as we have no idea what the diff is between levels, it still does little to measure how much weaker Eggy is than Nyn.

 

Moraine said with training Ny will be like a bonfire to Egwene's candle..so it bears to reason that with training when Ny can access all her strength she will be much more powerful.

 

It is a figure of speech, in trying to show us that she is going to be strong in the OP. It's not meant to be taken literally or as some definitive judgement on the actual diff in power. As others have noted there is little support in the books for that "large" of a diff between the two. Nyn is talked about as stronger yes, but not bonfire to a candle stronger. That would be closer to the diff between Nyn and Sorilea.

Edited by Suttree
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Mercy and ruthlessness are not mutually exclusive. I am reminded of the famous Tiberium Wars fanfic by Peptuk. In one chapter a contingent of GDI troops is pushing towards a Nod staging area. There are many wounded and injured soldiers there who cannot be moved away in time before the enemy arrives. So the Black Hand officer there mercy-kills anyone too weak to walk; he believes he's doing them a favour because he thinks the GDI troops will rape and torture the helpless people there if he leaves them alive. Did he have good intentions by doing this? Yes. Was it still horrifyingly ruthless and pragmatic? Yes.

 

It's the same with Egwene. She mercilessly cuts down fleeing Seanchan and rationalizes possible Aes Sedai casualties away with the belief that their lives would not be worth living if they survived anyway. Ruthlessness is not necessarily a negative trait either; sometimes you have to do what needs to be done no matter the cost. Egwene was certainly ruthless in this instance. Whether or not her ruthlessness was justified is the real question here.

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It's the same with Egwene. She mercilessly cuts down fleeing Seanchan and rationalizes possible Aes Sedai casualties away with the belief that their lives would not be worth living if they survived anyway. Ruthlessness is not necessarily a negative trait either; sometimes you have to do what needs to be done no matter the cost. Egwene was certainly ruthless in this instance. Whether or not her ruthlessness was justified is the real question here.

 

Ruthless: having no pity : merciless, cruel <a ruthless tyrant>

 

The differences are the Seanchan brought a surprise raid to the WT's doorstep, it's not like they met on a field of battle somewhere and she is refusing to let them withdraw. Also the AS would have been made into less than human animals. Their very identity is erased and for the rest of their lives they will be chained, beaten, and used as property. Bad enough for those raised in Seanchan, a fate far worse than death for those from Randland.

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Egwene is below Mohgidien. Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage. Nynaeve is slightly stronger than Semirhage.

 

Thus Egwene is much weaker than Nyaneve and would get easily annihilated in an OP fight. Luckily for her, she fought a Forsaken in TAR.

 

I've seen this all to often lately, posters using an unsubstantiated claim as fact, and then drawing a totally separate conclusion...even if we did have proof that forsaken ranking is correct as we have no idea what the diff is between levels, it still does little to measure how much weaker Eggy is than Nyn.

 

Moraine said with training Ny will be like a bonfire to Egwene's candle..so it bears to reason that with training when Ny can access all her strength she will be much more powerful.

 

It is a figure of speech, in trying to show us that she is going to be strong in the OP. It's not meant to be taken literally or as some definitive judgement on the actual diff in power. As others have noted there is little support in the books for that "large" of a diff between the two. Nyn is talked about as stronger yes, but not bonfire to a candle stronger. That would be closer to the diff between Nyn and Sorilea.

 

 

This is according to Brandon. So there is clear separation of strength between Semirhage, Messana and Moghdien.

 

In Fires of Heaven, Egwene states that Nyanve is "stronger" than her when she can channel. Keep in mind that Egwene was forced and Nyaneve at that time only equaled Moghdien, and her block is still there.

 

There is large disparity in strength, even among the more powerful characters, take for example the the weaker Lanfear being already stronger than Grandael. Or how Nyaneve describes Alivia as being "considerably stronger" than her.

 

Egwene to Rand: "And you are stronger than Avienhda and me together" (Fires of Heaven).

 

 

If you want more information, go read this: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

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Egwene is below Mohgidien. Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage. Nynaeve is slightly stronger than Semirhage.

 

Thus Egwene is much weaker than Nyaneve and would get easily annihilated in an OP fight. Luckily for her, she fought a Forsaken in TAR.

 

I've seen this all to often lately, posters using an unsubstantiated claim as fact, and then drawing a totally separate conclusion...even if we did have proof that forsaken ranking is correct as we have no idea what the diff is between levels, it still does little to measure how much weaker Eggy is than Nyn.

 

Moraine said with training Ny will be like a bonfire to Egwene's candle..so it bears to reason that with training when Ny can access all her strength she will be much more powerful.

 

It is a figure of speech, in trying to show us that she is going to be strong in the OP. It's not meant to be taken literally or as some definitive judgement on the actual diff in power. As others have noted there is little support in the books for that "large" of a diff between the two. Nyn is talked about as stronger yes, but not bonfire to a candle stronger. That would be closer to the diff between Nyn and Sorilea.

 

 

This is according to Brandon. So there is clear separation of strength between Semirhage, Messana and Moghdien.

 

In Fires of Heaven, Egwene states that Nyanve is "stronger" than her when she can channel. Keep in mind that Egwene was forced and Nyaneve at that time only equaled Moghdien, and her block is still there.

 

There is large disparity in strength, even among the more powerful characters, take for example the the weaker Lanfear being already stronger than Grandael. Or how Nyaneve describes Alivia as being "considerably stronger" than her.

 

Egwene to Rand: "And you are stronger than Avienhda and me together" (Fires of Heaven).

 

 

If you want more information, go read this: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

 

Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage.

 

That Forsaken ranking is according to BS? Ok I'll believe it as soon as you provide the quote. Please do so...

 

As for the Eggy quote in FoH, RJ says...

 

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.

 

 

So how does Rand being stronger say anything on the strength diff between female channelers?

 

As for the 13th depository it is an amusing read to see an attempted ranking but by no means whatsoever is it a official or even correct statement on characters actual strength.

Edited by Suttree
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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

well I figure that flying lizards must land every so often for rest. Flying what looks to be about a thousand miles or two from the edge of seanchan controlled lands to the white tower and back, they have to land probably multiple times on the road to a safe haven. Thus during one of these periods of rest the AS could easily strike and take back quite a few of the captured AS. the hardest thing to do would be to track them to said location.

 

with travelling the logistics of it are simple.

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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

well I figure that flying lizards must land every so often for rest. Flying what looks to be about a thousand miles or two from the edge of seanchan controlled lands to the white tower and back, they have to land probably multiple times on the road to a safe haven. Thus during one of these periods of rest the AS could easily strike and take back quite a few of the captured AS. the hardest thing to do would be to track them to said location.

 

with travelling the logistics of it are simple.

 

Yeah, I don't know if Egwene had time to think of all that in the middle of a furious battle for her life and freedom.

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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

well I figure that flying lizards must land every so often for rest. Flying what looks to be about a thousand miles or two from the edge of seanchan controlled lands to the white tower and back, they have to land probably multiple times on the road to a safe haven. Thus during one of these periods of rest the AS could easily strike and take back quite a few of the captured AS. the hardest thing to do would be to track them to said location.

 

with travelling the logistics of it are simple.

 

Have you looked at a WoT map recently? AS have no idea how far To'Raken can fly, they have no possible way to scout from the air and the amount of land you would need to cover would make the exercise impossible. Look at the ground between Tar Valon and Altara, Amadacia and Tarabon and tell me sisters could even begin to cover it all. Think of Perrin missing the Aiel when travelling to look for Faile. He was covering a much smaller territory and looking for a much larger group that unlike flying lizards actually left sign of it's passing!

Edited by Suttree
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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

well I figure that flying lizards must land every so often for rest. Flying what looks to be about a thousand miles or two from the edge of seanchan controlled lands to the white tower and back, they have to land probably multiple times on the road to a safe haven. Thus during one of these periods of rest the AS could easily strike and take back quite a few of the captured AS. the hardest thing to do would be to track them to said location.

 

with travelling the logistics of it are simple.

 

Have you looked at a WoT map recently? AS have no idea how far To'Raken can fly, they have no possible way to scout from the air and the amount of land you would need to cover would make the exercise impossible. Look at the ground between Tar Valon and Altara, Amadacia and Tarabon and tell me sisters could even begin to cover it all. Think of Perrin missing the Aiel when travelling to look for Faile. He was covering a much smaller territory and looking for a much larger group that unlike flying lizards actually left sign of it's passing!

didnt perrin miss them because they changed direction?

 

and I am not talking about immediately sending off a rescue effort, I am speaking of after she took throne. Which was a day or so after, but if she would have thouhgt of it she could sent a sister to track them (not faulting her on this one a lot was happening at this point) but I think that it was almost light when the raid ended which would have made them much easier to find

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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

well I figure that flying lizards must land every so often for rest. Flying what looks to be about a thousand miles or two from the edge of seanchan controlled lands to the white tower and back, they have to land probably multiple times on the road to a safe haven. Thus during one of these periods of rest the AS could easily strike and take back quite a few of the captured AS. the hardest thing to do would be to track them to said location.

 

with travelling the logistics of it are simple.

 

Have you looked at a WoT map recently? AS have no idea how far To'Raken can fly, they have no possible way to scout from the air and the amount of land you would need to cover would make the exercise impossible. Look at the ground between Tar Valon and Altara, Amadacia and Tarabon and tell me sisters could even begin to cover it all. Think of Perrin missing the Aiel when travelling to look for Faile. He was covering a much smaller territory and looking for a much larger group that unlike flying lizards actually left sign of it's passing!

didnt perrin miss them because they changed direction?

 

and I am not talking about immediately sending off a rescue effort, I am speaking of after she took throne. Which was a day or so after, but if she would have thouhgt of it she could sent a sister to track them (not faulting her on this one a lot was happening at this point) but I think that it was almost light when the raid ended which would have made them much easier to find

 

She didn't want them to be leashed. If she waits for days, weeks, months to rescue them.. they would be leashed. And she'd have no way to save them in the middle of seanchan territory anyway.

 

As to Nyn's strength. Nyn couldn't shield Elayne. So give it up already. This idea that Egwene would be a toy to Nynaeve is silly. Though I am not surprised that it comes from some of the same people who think Rand is a god now.

 

Also, what PROOF was given that Egwene can't split more?

 

Entreri, you have this strange habit of claiming things were said that never were. Or you claim something then totally ignore counter evidence and continue to claim your original statement as if it was never challenged. Notice I respond to my challenges with new facts or ideas to try to mitigate the doubts raised in the old ones. You do not, despite your "facts" being so full of holes they are more nothing than fact.

 

If you still think splitting is based on strength, I have explained how that theory can be highly questioned in like 3 threads so far and you have no rebutle. Where did you even hear that was true? I guess it's the first thing you saw, it fit your biases and so it becomes a 'fact'. Even Egwene's thoughts when she's caught by the reds, "She didn't think they could split so much" means Egwene didn't know how much they could split despite knowing their exact strength. So they are barely related if related at all.

 

Since you seem to have a thing for non cannon references, here's what it says on the wot wiki page for Eggs:

 

Egwene can split her flow fourteen ways, a feat unmatched by even the Forsaken, though they may well be capable of it. The Aes Sedai of the White Tower have declared that there are no areas of the Power she needs training in.

Edited by Kael Pyralis
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Egwene is below Mohgidien. Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage. Nynaeve is slightly stronger than Semirhage.

 

Thus Egwene is much weaker than Nyaneve and would get easily annihilated in an OP fight. Luckily for her, she fought a Forsaken in TAR.

 

I've seen this all to often lately, posters using an unsubstantiated claim as fact, and then drawing a totally separate conclusion...even if we did have proof that forsaken ranking is correct as we have no idea what the diff is between levels, it still does little to measure how much weaker Eggy is than Nyn.

 

Moraine said with training Ny will be like a bonfire to Egwene's candle..so it bears to reason that with training when Ny can access all her strength she will be much more powerful.

 

It is a figure of speech, in trying to show us that she is going to be strong in the OP. It's not meant to be taken literally or as some definitive judgement on the actual diff in power. As others have noted there is little support in the books for that "large" of a diff between the two. Nyn is talked about as stronger yes, but not bonfire to a candle stronger. That would be closer to the diff between Nyn and Sorilea.

 

 

This is according to Brandon. So there is clear separation of strength between Semirhage, Messana and Moghdien.

 

In Fires of Heaven, Egwene states that Nyanve is "stronger" than her when she can channel. Keep in mind that Egwene was forced and Nyaneve at that time only equaled Moghdien, and her block is still there.

 

There is large disparity in strength, even among the more powerful characters, take for example the the weaker Lanfear being already stronger than Grandael. Or how Nyaneve describes Alivia as being "considerably stronger" than her.

 

Egwene to Rand: "And you are stronger than Avienhda and me together" (Fires of Heaven).

 

 

If you want more information, go read this: http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/02/saidar-strength-ranking.html

 

Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage.

 

That Forsaken ranking is according to BS? Ok I'll believe it as soon as you provide the quote. Please do so...

 

As for the Eggy quote in FoH, RJ says...

 

Men can be much stronger than women in the pure quantity of the Power that they can channel, but on a practical level, women are much more deft in their weaving and that means the strongest possible woman can do just about anything that the strongest possible man could, and to the same degree.

 

 

So how does Rand being stronger say anything on the strength diff between female channelers?

 

As for the 13th depository it is an amusing read to see an attempted ranking but by no means whatsoever is it a official or even correct statement on characters actual strength.

 

 

Women do have a dexterity bonus according to RJ that is well known. However, that in itself does not mean the strongest woman=strongest man in a one-on-one battle, ceteris paribus (Rahvin PoV, FoH about him or Sammael overwhelming Lanfear and how the women would link).

 

 

One can gauge a woman's OP strength by seeing how she does against a man or compares to one.

 

Example1: Nyaneve: "stronger" than Naeff.

 

Example2: FoH, Rand is easily 2+times stronger than Egwene (according to Egwene), and according to his PoV in LoC he is still gaining strength. Logain is nearly as strong as Rand (KoD). In order to break a shield held by someone, generally you have to be much stronger. Logain could not break Nyaneve's shield. And even if Logain did not try to break it using his full Power, that is still very impressive and indicative of Nyaneve's OP strength. If "five held his shield" Logain may have broken it.

 

LoC, Moghdien said she was "stronger" than anyone in Salidar.

 

 

 

": How does Nynaeve compare with Semirhage in OP strength?

 

A: I’m pretty sure she’s stronger, but they are very close. RJ has a list of all the channeler’s strengths. On that list, only 6 people are stronger than Nynaeve. It’s such a rare event that pretty much anytime we meet someone stronger than her, it’s explicitly said. There are two OP strength scales – an ‘old’ and a ‘new’. Nynaeve was the top of the female list for the ‘old’ list. Six are stronger on the ‘new’ list.

 

Brandon was pretty certain that Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana, who isn’t particularly strong in forsaken terms."

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gathering_Storm_Book_Tour,_Scottsdale_Public_Library,_Phoenix_Arizona_16

 

 

"Mesaana knew her own strengths and weaknesses, with the One Power and elsewhere. She matched well with Semirhage on most points... Each Forsaken is stronger than any of these half-trained children that called themselves Aes Sedai today."

 

Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

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Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

 

So in other words without a lot of pointless typing, and faulty guesswork BS never said "Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage." like you claimed. Thanks for that. In the future please don't claim author quotes as fact when they never actually happened.

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Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

 

So in other words without a lot of pointless typing, and faulty guesswork BS never said "Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage." like you claimed. Thanks for that. In the future please don't claim author quotes as fact when they never actually happened.

 

Your analytical and comprehension skills are woefully lacking.

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Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

 

So in other words without a lot of pointless typing, and faulty guesswork BS never said "Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage." like you claimed. Thanks for that. In the future please don't claim author quotes as fact when they never actually happened.

 

Your analytical and comprehension skills are woefully lacking.

 

Seeing as how no one her seems to agree with you, and other posters called you out on it I wouldn't really say that is the case. Also for the record fabricating author statements to back up personnel opinion is a pretty heavy faux pas around these parts. Right(which it isn't) or wrong it is till a deduction on your part, you cant just say "BS said". Please desist in claiming BS said things that he did not.

Edited by Suttree
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I dont think so, I think in this context mercy is the opposite of ruthless, which she showed no inclination towards. And as you point out she attacked to kill knowing she may destroy her own people who where captive, and didnt launch an rescue effort, which if she truly wanted to save those women from that fate she would have

 

A rescue effort....against flying lizards...care to tell us how that might possibly have worked?

 

Come on Durinax, the Seanchan attack is perhaps not the best example.

well I figure that flying lizards must land every so often for rest. Flying what looks to be about a thousand miles or two from the edge of seanchan controlled lands to the white tower and back, they have to land probably multiple times on the road to a safe haven. Thus during one of these periods of rest the AS could easily strike and take back quite a few of the captured AS. the hardest thing to do would be to track them to said location.

 

with travelling the logistics of it are simple.

 

Have you looked at a WoT map recently? AS have no idea how far To'Raken can fly, they have no possible way to scout from the air and the amount of land you would need to cover would make the exercise impossible. Look at the ground between Tar Valon and Altara, Amadacia and Tarabon and tell me sisters could even begin to cover it all. Think of Perrin missing the Aiel when travelling to look for Faile. He was covering a much smaller territory and looking for a much larger group that unlike flying lizards actually left sign of it's passing!

didnt perrin miss them because they changed direction?

 

and I am not talking about immediately sending off a rescue effort, I am speaking of after she took throne. Which was a day or so after, but if she would have thouhgt of it she could sent a sister to track them (not faulting her on this one a lot was happening at this point) but I think that it was almost light when the raid ended which would have made them much easier to find

 

She didn't want them to be leashed. If she waits for days, weeks, months to rescue them.. they would be leashed. And she'd have no way to save them in the middle of seanchan territory anyway.

 

As to Nyn's strength. Nyn couldn't shield Elayne. So give it up already. This idea that Egwene would be a toy to Nynaeve is silly. Though I am not surprised that it comes from some of the same people who think Rand is a god now.

 

Also, what PROOF was given that Egwene can't split more?

 

Entreri, you have this strange habit of claiming things were said that never were. Or you claim something then totally ignore counter evidence and continue to claim your original statement as if it was never challenged. Notice I respond to my challenges with new facts or ideas to try to mitigate the doubts raised in the old ones. You do not, despite your "facts" being so full of holes they are more nothing than fact.

 

If you still think splitting is based on strength, I have explained how that theory can be highly questioned in like 3 threads so far and you have no rebutle. Where did you even hear that was true? I guess it's the first thing you saw, it fit your biases and so it becomes a 'fact'. Even Egwene's thoughts when she's caught by the reds, "She didn't think they could split so much" means Egwene didn't know how much they could split despite knowing their exact strength. So they are barely related if related at all.

 

Since you seem to have a thing for non cannon references, here's what it says on the wot wiki page for Eggs:

 

Egwene can split her flow fourteen ways, a feat unmatched by even the Forsaken, though they may well be capable of it. The Aes Sedai of the White Tower have declared that there are no areas of the Power she needs training in.

 

I already addressed the point. Splitting depends largely on strength (as your god Egwene herself said in tSR). Is it soley based on strength? No. Nothing in the series is solely based on strength, various people have Talents or skills in x,y,z.

 

You 'facts' are for the most part ideas. Mine for the large part are direct quotes from the books and the rest the authors.

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Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

 

So in other words without a lot of pointless typing, and faulty guesswork BS never said "Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage." like you claimed. Thanks for that. In the future please don't claim author quotes as fact when they never actually happened.

 

Your analytical and comprehension skills are woefully lacking.

 

Seeing as how no one her seems to agree with you, and other posters called you out on it I wouldn't really say that is the case. Also for the record fabricating author statements to back up personnel opinion is a pretty heavy faux pas around these parts. Please desist in claiming BS said things that he did not. Right(which it isn't) or wrong it is till a deduction on your part.

 

I would bet nearly all the posters here and elswhere would agree with my analysis, that Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghdiein, and of course you know this.

 

I rest my case.

 

"Brandon was pretty certain that Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana, who isn’t particularly strong in Forsaken terms".

 

 

Some people need everything to be spoon fed.

Edited by Entreri
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Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

 

So in other words without a lot of pointless typing, and faulty guesswork BS never said "Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage." like you claimed. Thanks for that. In the future please don't claim author quotes as fact when they never actually happened.

 

Your analytical and comprehension skills are woefully lacking.

 

Seeing as how no one her seems to agree with you, and other posters called you out on it I wouldn't really say that is the case. Also for the record fabricating author statements to back up personnel opinion is a pretty heavy faux pas around these parts. Please desist in claiming BS said things that he did not. Right(which it isn't) or wrong it is till a deduction on your part.

 

I would bet nearly all the posters here and elswhere would agree with my analysis, that Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghdiein, and of course you know this.

 

I rest my case.

 

Just go back and read the thread, four diff posters(I'll pull them all if you like) called you out on Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghdiein, claim asking for proof, to which you answered "BS said so". Since he never made that statement you then tried to cobble together various quotes to support your view. The key is it is "your deduction" BS NEVER MADE THAT STATEMENT!

 

"Brandon was pretty certain that Nynaeve is stronger than Mesaana, who isn’t particularly strong in Forsaken terms".

 

Rest whatever you want but of course that quote says nothing in relation to the order of the forsaken listed and is very diff than Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghdiein...

Edited by Suttree
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Thus, Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghedien.

 

That is all I am going to say on this matter, I leave the rest to you.

 

So in other words without a lot of pointless typing, and faulty guesswork BS never said "Mohgidein is below Messana. Messana is below Semirhage." like you claimed. Thanks for that. In the future please don't claim author quotes as fact when they never actually happened.

 

Your analytical and comprehension skills are woefully lacking.

 

Seeing as how no one her seems to agree with you, and other posters called you out on it I wouldn't really say that is the case. Also for the record fabricating author statements to back up personnel opinion is a pretty heavy faux pas around these parts. Please desist in claiming BS said things that he did not. Right(which it isn't) or wrong it is till a deduction on your part.

 

I would bet nearly all the posters here and elswhere would agree with my analysis, that Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghdiein, and of course you know this.

 

I rest my case.

 

Just go back and read the thread, four diff posters(I'll pull them all if you like) called you out on Semirhage>Mesaana>Moghdiein, claim asking for proof, to which you answered "BS said so". Since he never made that statement you then tried to cobble together various quotes to support your view. The key is it is "your deduction" BS NEVER MADE THAT STATEMENT!

 

Kid, relax.

 

As I said, you deduction skills need some working.

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