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The three missing Forsaken


Mr Hindley
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Something that has occurred to me - Rand now knows about the DO's ability to resurrect Forsaken, and indeed, he has had encounters with Moridin and Cyndane.

 

Given that - shouldn't he be wondering where Aginor and Balthamel are? He should (correctly) have assumed that they've been brought back, but has no way of knowing they have both since died again. Yet he never mentions them or seems to think about them.

 

There's also Asmodean, who we do see him wondering about. Depending on what happens with Graendal, there's a strong chance Rand will never find out about Asmodean's death.

 

Which means that after TG, if Rand is still alive, as far as he's concerned there'll be at least three Forsaken unaccounted for and who ought to be hunted down. Which will be just a little bit futile...

 

Any thoughts?

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I think Rand considers them irrelivant at this point. He was determined to hunt down Graendal, but only because he knew she was in the country he was working on at the time. But, rand knows that the shadow will have thier own new dreadlords at TG, and at thats why he founded the black tower anyway, so that others could deal with the shadow's channelers while he focused on the big fish, moridin, SH and the dark one.

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I forget which book he discovered that FO's were being reborn, but from that moment on, he will only be using balefire against them to prevent their resurrection. I believe it was before his fight with Sammael.

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I forget which book he discovered that FO's were being reborn, but from that moment on, he will only be using balefire against them to prevent their resurrection. I believe it was before his fight with Sammael.

 

He discoverd that in tGS shortly before killing Semirhage, when he met Moridin in his dreams.

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Yeah its kind of funny how he never thinks about Asmodean any more. If he still thinks Asmodean is still alive then he must assume that Asmodean is plotting and working against him yet we hear about he has to deal with Grandael and Semirhage but he doesn't seem to plan the same way for Asmodean.

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Yeah but that's kind of silly just because Asmodean couldn't defeat him in a one power duel this doesn't mean that Asmodean can't do a lot of harm. Especially considering he has inner knowledge of Rand's thoughts, plans and friends.

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Asmodean always felt like a throwaway character to me, a poorly thought out character who was just shoved into the story to make 13 total FO's. Mesaana, Lanfear, Moggy, and Sermi could all be the same character. Aginor and Balthamel as well, Sammael, Demandred, and Rahvin (3 generals) could be another group. The only ones who really stand out as individuals are Ishmael and Graendal.

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I suspect a lot of it comes down to out of sight, out of mind. Sure, Asmo might be out there, plotting, but Rand doesn't know where he might be and doesn't have the resources to look. Same with Aginor and Balthamel, if he stopped to think about them. There's nothing he can do, no point worrying. If they should rear their heads, he will doubtless be ready to decapitate them.

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Speaking of Asmodean, since Rand severed the Dark link to him...thus the reason he allowed Asmo to teach him...would the Dark One have been able to resurrect him? I know Ishmael told Lews Theriin that the DO could resurrect his wife, but LTT seemed to not believe in so it seems that the DO can only resurrect those who have pledged themselves to him.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think DO resurrected Asmo already, but yeah, I'm not sure how that was possible, one answer I heard was that those wires were saidin netting, not the same as the soul oaths that would have put them permanently within the reach of DO.

 

I thought he only balefired Rahvin to undo what he did to Rand's people.

And I thought he only tried/did that to Sammael was a convenient way to kill, that couldn't be blocked or such.

Grendal was to prove she dead, when he see her weaves undone from the dupe (problem with that story line was LTT/Rand recognized her weaves)

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If Asmo hadn't scrambled the Aiel Caracarn test, Rand would have had a lot less in the way of trouble. Sure Asmo wasn't much of a fighter but he did Rand more harm than most of the other FS combined. Belal, Sammael and Rahvin just cleared the decks for Rand by creating power vacuums his chosen leaders could occupy. Lanfear actively helped him. Semirhage did him some minor physical harm and forced a moral crisis that made him stronger.

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Which means that after TG, if Rand is still alive, as far as he's concerned there'll be at least three Forsaken unaccounted for and who ought to be hunted down. Which will be just a little bit futile...

 

Any thoughts?

 

IIRC he also still hasn't learned that Mesaana has been essentially taken care of, though I'm sure that would come out in conversation with people he knows. He'll at least be brought up to speed on Aran'gar/Halima by Egwene and friends, so he won't be completely blind by that.

 

All of that being said, technically Mesaana could still be killed and reborn, and Dashiva/Oran'gar and Sammael weren't killed with balefire so they can be reborn again too. By that logic, he'll still be looking for 6. My guess is this all gets tied up by the end. Think of it from the other side's perspective. If you are a 'chosen' and have dedicated your life to serving the Dark One, who has now been defeated at TG, why would you bother to continue to harrass TDR? If he can beat the Dark One, I want no part of him. They all chose the Dark One for personal greed, not so much because of a hate for the light. If the DO is no longer around to fulfill that greed, why bother?

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I think DO resurrected Asmo already
Robert Jordan told that the Dark One can not resurrect Asmodean even if he wanted to. Robert Jordan told that both the "how" and the "where" of Asmodean's death prevents it. My guess has been the inside of a Gateway; the other likely cause being balefire, but he seemed very close to his killer.

 

 

About Aginor & Balthamel, I doubt Rand knows that they were resurrected. So he might not be looking for them.

 

 

Asmodean, there might be a chance for Rand (or someone in his group) to face Graendal some time/times; and she revealing/hinting various things.

And/Or perhaps a chance of she sending a taunting letter and possibly revealing/hinting the same things.

 

Or possibly since she works with the Seanchan, she might accompany Tuon to a meeting with him.

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Asmodean, there might be a chance for Rand (or someone in his group) to face Graendal some time/times; and she revealing/hinting various things.

And/Or perhaps a chance of she sending a taunting letter and possibly revealing/hinting the same things.

Or possibly since she works with the Seanchan, she might accompany Tuon to a meeting with him.

Hmm, possible. Although if that was going to happen, I suspect we wouldn't have had the reveal of her as Asmo's killer in ToM - they could have saved that for later on. It's one of the reasons I suspect Graendal's storyline as a significant player is pretty much over - ToM was probably the last opportunity to get that secret revealed.

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Tarmon Gaidon, Rand's death would free mankind from the Shadow.

And there might be a chance for all Forsaken to have been killed/turned/incapacitated/etc before then.

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Asmodean always felt like a throwaway character to me, a poorly thought out character who was just shoved into the story to make 13 total FO's. Mesaana, Lanfear, Moggy, and Sermi could all be the same character. Aginor and Balthamel as well, Sammael, Demandred, and Rahvin (3 generals) could be another group. The only ones who really stand out as individuals are Ishmael and Graendal.

 

Wow... I respectfully disagree on some of these. Though I do agree about others.

 

1) Asmo - did quite a bit of damage and what he caused was a major pain even AFTER he was caught. Was such a coward that after caught basically switched sides as that was his only option.

 

2) Lanfear - Was in love with Rand/Lews Therin and and actively helped Rand and the others when she could have won the LB before it was ever fought. Really only became a true biatch once she found out about Aviendha sleeping with him

 

3) I can agree with Moggy, Sermi, and Mesaana. They all seem very similar in the way that they speak and act.

 

4) Belal, Aginor, and Balthemel (before the latter two were resurected) - were very under developed and not much to know or say about them.

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I never looked as Asmodean as a throw away character. I feel like his usefulness to the Forsaken were never really taken into account especially after he turned to Rand. In Asmodean, they had an excellent spy...someone who worked close to the Dragon and was privy to his plans - but the Forsaken are all about furthering their own power and stature and so they just tossed Asmodean off the list without really seeing his usefulness. Even Lanfear could have learned from Asmodean, but she believed she already knew all about Lews Therin based on her relationship with him in the Age of Legends.

 

It was Asmodean who recognized the access keys in Rhuidean, after all. If he had gotten to them first, he would have annihilated Rand and the rest of the Forsaken, I'm sure.

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by this time in the timeline, it's irrelevant in a lot of ways where they are. He doesn't have time to hunt them down one by one since TG is going into full force. He'll just have to take care of them as they come along or hope someone else handles them (such as Nyneave with Moghedien).

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Without Asmo messing with caracan stuff, Shaido would still have split from Rand's team, due to Couladin and Sevanna (also some of her friends weren't to nice as we later learn). Perhaps some would have stayed behind with Rand (ie shaido would have split) and later there would have been a reason to tell people about their past and some people would have joined their societies among the shaido...

 

Messana can be revived but DO would be real unhappy should he try, she would still be dumb, I'm not sure if someone (perhaps graendel) could use compulsion on her to create a new personality on commands to use her as a type of cruise missle of great destructive force...

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