Vampire Aiel?

[Suttree]

I can wrap my mind about the evil Aiel part because of the veils and spears, but what makes people think they are dark channelers?

 

People believe they are dark channelers because the Aiel send all their men who can channel into the blight to hunt the DO at SG. The theory goes these Aiel have been turned to the Shadow.

[LordoftheMorning]

I can wrap my mind about the evil Aiel part because of the veils and spears, but what makes people think they are dark channelers?

 

People believe they are dark channelers because the Aiel send all their men who can channel into the blight to hunt the DO at SG. The theory goes these Aiel have been turned to the Shadow.

 

Gotcha. I just doesn't make much sense to introduce dark channelers and have them not use saidin. I will just have to wait and see. I would believe alternate portal stone evil Aiel before evil channeler Aiel that show no signs of channeling.

[LordoftheMorning]

That's not really what I think. Just being sarcastic. I have no idea who the red veiled, dark eyed, spear carrying people are. Nothing about that description makes me say channeler or even Aiel. I will just have to RAFO

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't really get the channeller part either. There's already plenty of DF Ashaman and Aes Sedai around, not to mention a few extraneous Forsaken, so it seems a bit redundant to introduce some random other group of channellers into the series right at the end. I always just figured that they were dudes who'd been affected by the Blight somehow.

[MasterAblar]

I don't really get the channeller part either. There's already plenty of DF Ashaman and Aes Sedai around, not to mention a few extraneous Forsaken, so it seems a bit redundant to introduce some random other group of channellers into the series right at the end. I always just figured that they were dudes who'd been affected by the Blight somehow.

 

The Shadow is in dire need of channellers though. There far more Aes Sedai and Ashaman on the Light's side than on the Shadow's side. It's likely to be around the same proportions with the Windfinders and Wise Ones (it's pretty unlikely any damane would be darkfriends). They're completely outnumbered. That's why I think Shara and the Ayyad is a good solution for the Shadow. A powerful nation with countless channellers to recruit.

[Suttree]

I don't really get the channeller part either. There's already plenty of DF Ashaman and Aes Sedai around, not to mention a few extraneous Forsaken, so it seems a bit redundant to introduce some random other group of channellers into the series right at the end. I always just figured that they were dudes who'd been affected by the Blight somehow.

 

The Shadow is in dire need of channellers though. There far more Aes Sedai and Ashaman on the Light's side than on the Shadow's side. It's likely to be around the same proportions with the Windfinders and Wise Ones (it's pretty unlikely any damane would be darkfriends). They're completely outnumbered. That's why I think Shara and the Ayyad is a good solution for the Shadow. A powerful nation with countless channellers to recruit.

 

True and I believe the Dark Aiel fall under this category...

 

 

Tamyrlin: Well, then is there something unique about the Forsaken other than the fact that they are his favorites that he would transmigrate them, or be able to?

Jordan: Well, he would have been a lot less likely to in an earlier time when they were a lot of powerful, knowledgeable channelers who were in his service. Essentially half the people in the world who could channel were on his side, during the War of the Shadow. Now he has very few, he's got the Black Ajah, and a few wilders, and some stuff I ain't going in to, but uh he doesn't have a lot, but he can't afford to waste assets.

[Tom Sawyer]

I don't really get the channeller part either. There's already plenty of DF Ashaman and Aes Sedai around, not to mention a few extraneous Forsaken, so it seems a bit redundant to introduce some random other group of channellers into the series right at the end. I always just figured that they were dudes who'd been affected by the Blight somehow.

 

The Shadow is in dire need of channellers though. There far more Aes Sedai and Ashaman on the Light's side than on the Shadow's side. It's likely to be around the same proportions with the Windfinders and Wise Ones (it's pretty unlikely any damane would be darkfriends). They're completely outnumbered. That's why I think Shara and the Ayyad is a good solution for the Shadow. A powerful nation with countless channellers to recruit.

 

OK, good point. It does seem a bit late in the game to be introducing new plot points and characters, however, when there's so many which haven't been wrapped up yet.

[MasterAblar]

I don't really get the channeller part either. There's already plenty of DF Ashaman and Aes Sedai around, not to mention a few extraneous Forsaken, so it seems a bit redundant to introduce some random other group of channellers into the series right at the end. I always just figured that they were dudes who'd been affected by the Blight somehow.

 

The Shadow is in dire need of channellers though. There far more Aes Sedai and Ashaman on the Light's side than on the Shadow's side. It's likely to be around the same proportions with the Windfinders and Wise Ones (it's pretty unlikely any damane would be darkfriends). They're completely outnumbered. That's why I think Shara and the Ayyad is a good solution for the Shadow. A powerful nation with countless channellers to recruit.

 

OK, good point. It does seem a bit late in the game to be introducing new plot points and characters, however, when there's so many which haven't been wrapped up yet.

 

Yeah, I know, but you never know so I'm still hoping it'll happen. Somehow.

[Thrasymachus]

So, basically, we think they're Turned Aiel Channelers because we hope the Shadow has some kind of channeler ace up it's sleeve, and that would be badass? Still seems weak to me. Hoping for something to be true isn't a reason to believe it, the same as it's not a reason to believe something just because it would be awesome if it were true. Otherwise, I'd believe the last book was already released and they were giving it out for free with Jordan's authentic signature on each one at the local library.

 

Moreover, we know the Shadow has channelers enough, and male channelers at that, to throw at Maradon and at that battle with Perrin/the Whitecloaks. We don't know where those guys came from. Plus, they've got all the Black Ajah that managed to escape Egwene's purge. Considering they've corrupted a significant portion of the Black Tower as well, I doubt the Shadow will be hurting all that much from a lack of Power wielders.

 

I'm going to have to break out my copy to double-check, but I don't think we're even given confirmation or any substantial evidence that these guys are friends of the Dark. Just their overall evil-ness really gives any indication, and we've seen non-Shadow related evil before. All of this was from the subjective perspective of a dying merchant anyway, and what he perceives to be inhuman and myrddral-like may be as much from his fear and impaired condition as from his murderers being really Darkfriends.

 

I'm not saying these pointy-toothed, sinuous, red-veiled spear-chuckers aren't associated with the Shadow, and in context, it seems likely to me that they are. I'd be surprised if they just turned out to be a raiding party from Shara or something with no Shadowy links. But the very thin evidence we have when they are introduced leaves that possibility open.

 

My point here is just that given the evidence presented in the books, it is just as likely that these guys turn out to have nothing whatsoever to do with the Dark as it is that they turn out to be Turned Aiel Channelers. And if the only real reason TACs are being discussed is because that idea is teh awesome, then I propose that an alternative explanation be that it turns out that not all Fades are sterile, but the fertile ones are really female, and these red-veiled guys are the rape-children of the Fades with Male Aiel Channelers who've gone to spit in Sightblinder's eyes and got themselves caught. That would be much more awesome.

[Suttree]

So, basically, we think they're Turned Aiel Channelers because we hope the Shadow has some kind of channeler ace up it's sleeve, and that would be badass? Still seems weak to me. Hoping for something to be true isn't a reason to believe it, the same as it's not a reason to believe something just because it would be awesome if it were true. Otherwise, I'd believe the last book was already released and they were giving it out for free with Jordan's authentic signature on each one at the local library.

 

The Aiel characteristics, the fact that male Aiel channelers all go to SG to hunt the DO, combined with the ace up it's sleeve are far more than hoping something would be bad ass. You could also tie in possible "blank" in the blight if you want to. RJ has given us less than that before with other mysteries.

 

Moreover, we know the Shadow has channelers enough, and male channelers at that, to throw at Maradon and at that battle with Perrin/the Whitecloaks. We don't know where those guys came from. Plus, they've got all the Black Ajah that managed to escape Egwene's purge. Considering they've corrupted a significant portion of the Black Tower as well, I doubt the Shadow will be hurting all that much from a lack of Power wielders.

 

Actually the RJ quote says the exact opposite of that.

 

Tamyrlin: Well, then is there something unique about the Forsaken other than the fact that they are his favorites that he would transmigrate them, or be able to?

Jordan: Well, he would have been a lot less likely to in an earlier time when they were a lot of powerful, knowledgeable channelers who were in his service. Essentially half the people in the world who could channel were on his side, during the War of the Shadow. Now he has very few, he's got the Black Ajah, and a few wilders, and some stuff I ain't going in to, but uh he doesn't have a lot, but he can't afford to waste assets.

[master]

(it's pretty unlikely any damane would be darkfriends

 

yoiu forgot about sul'dam

[Arath Faringal]

So, basically, we think they're Turned Aiel Channelers because we hope the Shadow has some kind of channeler ace up it's sleeve, and that would be badass? Still seems weak to me. Hoping for something to be true isn't a reason to believe it, the same as it's not a reason to believe something just because it would be awesome if it were true. Otherwise, I'd believe the last book was already released and they were giving it out for free with Jordan's authentic signature on each one at the local library.

 

No, we think they're turned Aiel channelers because there is simply a good chance that they are. The Aiel have been throwing their male wilders into the blight for centuries. Ishy has been out of prison on his rotating cycle during that whole time, and could easily have captured or arranged for the capture of more than a few during his free time. These channelers, if they are twisted to the Shadow, would enjoy the DO's taint filter, meaning they could live for centuries, and once they numbered a couple dozen, it's an easily self sustaining resource. So there could be quite a few of them. I'm guessing that there are slighlty larger numbers of wilders among the Aiel then among the rest of Randland, so that would also add quickly to their numbers.

 

Moreover, we know the Shadow has channelers enough, and male channelers at that, to throw at Maradon and at that battle with Perrin/the Whitecloaks. We don't know where those guys came from. Plus, they've got all the Black Ajah that managed to escape Egwene's purge. Considering they've corrupted a significant portion of the Black Tower as well, I doubt the Shadow will be hurting all that much from a lack of Power wielders.

 

So you'd rather believe in two mysterious new additions to the Shadow's forces, rather than a single addition? Mysterious dark male channeler army AND strange mutant Aiel. Because it's a much more badass idea for there to be an epic ninja showdown between black veiled and red veiled Aiel in the last battle. I find it easier to believe that this mysterious new channeling force, and the mysterious new Aiel force, are one and the same. These Aiel are present in the aftermath of slaughter of a borderlander fort. Presumably, this was brought down by channelers, just like in what happened in the battle we were able to see. Borderlander fortifications don't fall quickly ... they were built for this sort of thing. We don't see the channelers during the battle, nor do we see anything resembling an Aiel. Since it's a reasonably safe assumption that these guys belong to the shadow, we can assume there were in the area for a specific reason.

 

Frankly, I don't see these dots as very hard to connect. Is there a chance that we're wrong? Absolutely! Is the evidence circumstantial? Of course.

 

My point here is just that given the evidence presented in the books, it is just as likely that these guys turn out to have nothing whatsoever to do with the Dark as it is that they turn out to be Turned Aiel Channelers.

 

What kind of evidence are you looking for? The dying merchant to suddenly manifest the ability to sense Saidin and say "Mother's milk in a cup! These guys are channeling!" It's a reasonable conclusion that these 'Aiel' are the mysterious new channelers that happened to appear in the same book. The fact that they didn't set his face on fire means nothing. That can easily be explained by the fact that they were bred as warriors and get a sadistic satisfaction out of getting their hands dirty. Especially if they weren't allowed to join the battle directly as they may have wanted.

[number13]

If you want an actual nod to vampires on WOT, look at the draghkar.

 

Actually, I always thought the Myrdraal had quite a few traits of vampires as well.

 

Only if you associate the pale skin only with vmapires. That is the only thing even remotely vampire like about them.

 

I would disagree with that, but it all depends on which vampire lore you use.

 

For example, their linking with Trollocs - vampires are often said to be able to directly control lesser evil creatures.

 

Also their look causing fear and their weakness in sunlight. You could also compare their ability to travel via shadows to be akin to turning into mist, etc.

 

I'm not saying they are vampires, of course, but saying the only trait they have is pale skin doesn't ring true.

[Gabriel Kross]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

[Suttree]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

 

Myddraal are sterile...

[MasterAblar]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

 

Myddraal are sterile...

 

You sure? WoT Encyclopedia says that they cannot reproduce with either humans or trollocs, but they are not sterile. Not sure where they got the information on the last part though.

[Suttree]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

 

Myddraal are sterile...

 

You sure? WoT Encyclopedia says that they cannot reproduce with either humans or trollocs, but they are not sterile. Not sure where they got the information on the last part though.

 

Sorry had to double check, it isn't that they are sterile. It's that their sperm makes human and trolloc women sterile.

 

 

Q: Where do Trollocs come from? Are there male and female Trollocs that mate? Are there only male Trollocs that mate with animals and/or humans to reproduce? Are Trollocs neuter, grown in a big vat at Shayol Ghul? Enquiring minds want to know!

 

RJ: WARNING--NOT FAMILY NEWSFROUP MATERIAL. CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED. "You know the original source, of course...a blending of human and animal genetic material in an effort to produce the "perfect"soldier, though as envisioned by somebody who had never seen combat. Yes, there are female Trollocs, though you don't want to know more than that...there was a clear statement of this actually--that Trollocs breed--when where Myrddraal come from was explained. Sometimes a Trolloc off-spring is a throwback, but not all the way back to human, and twisted. Thus, eyeless but with keen vision, very strong indeed though not in Trolloc-class, able to vanish into shadows & reappear in other shadows...There are no female Myrddraal; not even the laddie who made the Trollocs in the first place knew why...Myrddraal must have their "pleasures" with captured human women...there is no possibility of cross-breeding--it was tested, during the War of the Power, in the crudest sort of way; the Myrdraal isn't sterile, but its sperm kills both human and Trolloc ova--and the sex practices and other attributes of Myrddraal are such that a very strong woman might retain her sanity for six months, but very few do." {did I ask about the sex practices of Myrddraal? No, I didn't think so.} "For the record, a Trolloc could also have sex with a human...they are now two completely incompatible species, so there isn't any possibility of offspring--the Forsaken tested that out too... Trollocs are just not interested in human women sexually; to them, humans are just another food animal... Trollocs are of fairly low intelligence (I told you the designer was never in combat), so they would think of it about as we would having sex with sheep, though they would do it if ordered to. They'd just like it better if they could eat her afterwards."

[Thrasymachus]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

Seriously? I really hope that's a joke

 

Look, the entire scenario that introduces these guys is presented from the PoV of a dying merchant. We're not in some third-person narrator's perspective for this, nor are we in the perspective of a character we could trust to properly interpret what they witness. The merchant thinks they're like fades, then that they're like Aiel. They have spears and red veils. They're encountered in the Borderlands near the Blight. The whole "Aiel" thing to me reads like a giant red-herring. There's a bunch of superficial similarities designed to make the reader think they're some kind of Aiel, heck Aiel are even directly mentioned. But it seems more likely to me that these guys have nothing whatsoever to do with Aiel, or at least no more to do with Aiel than with any other Randland culture.

 

I think it's more likely that the big unknown thing up in the Blight is a human city whose residents are sworn to the Shadow. Similarities in their clothing and weapons with the Aiel can be explained by the fact that living in the Waste and living the Blight would be very similar. It's very hot, common objects like sticks and rocks can kill, potable water is scarce, and breathing the air can be dangerous or unpleasant at times. The true Aiel adopted veils to cover their faces when committing violence, to hide their shame in abandoning the Way of the Leaf. But they kept those veils in the Waste, when everybody but the chiefs and the Wise Ones forgot they ever followed the Way, because face-coverings are darned handy in a desert. They'd be equally handy in the Blight. Same thing with spears. They're a light, easily wielded and maneuverable weapon, ideally suited to both attack and defense, small enough to be useful in stealthy scouting operations, and robust enough to be a main weapon in outright battle. If I had to pick a weapon to defend myself from an attacker or to attack an enemy, and I had a spear, a sword, a stave, an axe and a hammer to choose from, I'd pick the spear every time.

 

Basically, the circumstantial evidence that links these new bad guys to Aiel is way too circumstantial. We don't see anything really culturally unique to the Aiel reflected in these red-veiled warriors, and the weak circumstantial evidence we do get is given in such as way as to just scream out Red-Herring! That said, there is more evidence linking these guys to Aiel than there is evidence linking them to any kind of channelers, because there's none of that. There's no flames erupting from nowhere, or earthquakes rending the ground, or lightning striking nearby, or anything at all to indicate any kind of channeling, past or present. We don't know how the Borderguard fort was overrun, or whether channeling was used in destroying it or not.

 

So, no evidence that they're channelers, and weak evidence to suggest any connection to Aiel, evidence that could easily be a red-herring. On the other hand, we know there's something big in the Blight and we know humans live in the Blight, but we've never seen them, only evidence of their existence in the form of farming Blight-resistant crops and the transplanted village. A simple matter of parsimony leads me to believe this is our first look at these Blight-natives.

[Suttree]

true Aiel adopted veils to cover their faces when committing violence, to hide their shame in abandoning the Way of the Leaf. But they kept those veils in the Waste, when everybody but the chiefs and the Wise Ones forgot they ever followed the Way, because face-coverings are darned handy in a desert.

 

They kept the veils but despite how handy they are in the waste they still cover when they are about to kill. In this scene we have the direct cultural opposite in taking the veil off to kill, which is a connection in how the tradition is perverted.

 

We don't see anything really culturally unique to the Aiel reflected in these red-veiled warriors,

 

Except for you know, the spears and veils which we see no where else in Randland.

[MasterAblar]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

 

Myddraal are sterile...

 

You sure? WoT Encyclopedia says that they cannot reproduce with either humans or trollocs, but they are not sterile. Not sure where they got the information on the last part though.

 

Sorry had to double check, it isn't that they are sterile. It's that their sperm makes human and trolloc women sterile.

 

 

Q: Where do Trollocs come from? Are there male and female Trollocs that mate? Are there only male Trollocs that mate with animals and/or humans to reproduce? Are Trollocs neuter, grown in a big vat at Shayol Ghul? Enquiring minds want to know!

 

RJ: WARNING--NOT FAMILY NEWSFROUP MATERIAL. CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED. "You know the original source, of course...a blending of human and animal genetic material in an effort to produce the "perfect"soldier, though as envisioned by somebody who had never seen combat. Yes, there are female Trollocs, though you don't want to know more than that...there was a clear statement of this actually--that Trollocs breed--when where Myrddraal come from was explained. Sometimes a Trolloc off-spring is a throwback, but not all the way back to human, and twisted. Thus, eyeless but with keen vision, very strong indeed though not in Trolloc-class, able to vanish into shadows & reappear in other shadows...There are no female Myrddraal; not even the laddie who made the Trollocs in the first place knew why...Myrddraal must have their "pleasures" with captured human women...there is no possibility of cross-breeding--it was tested, during the War of the Power, in the crudest sort of way; the Myrdraal isn't sterile, but its sperm kills both human and Trolloc ova--and the sex practices and other attributes of Myrddraal are such that a very strong woman might retain her sanity for six months, but very few do." {did I ask about the sex practices of Myrddraal? No, I didn't think so.} "For the record, a Trolloc could also have sex with a human...they are now two completely incompatible species, so there isn't any possibility of offspring--the Forsaken tested that out too... Trollocs are just not interested in human women sexually; to them, humans are just another food animal... Trollocs are of fairly low intelligence (I told you the designer was never in combat), so they would think of it about as we would having sex with sheep, though they would do it if ordered to. They'd just like it better if they could eat her afterwards."

 

Right, well, either way it sort of kills Eternal Phoenix's theory.

[Grimmauld]

The one thing that struck me about this was the dark eyes the "Aiel" have! We know this series has a large history of foreshadowing. Then - consider this...

 

POD, ch. 20: "Tisn't right, if you ask me. He's one of them black-eyed Aielmen, I hear. We ought to march on Caemlyn and drive him and all them Aiel back where they come from. "

 

WH, ch. 27: Tenobia refers to Aviendha as a "black-eyed Aiel," to Avi's confusion.

 

Hence, it would seem extremely possible that all the foreshadowing where wetlanders think of Aiel as evil is tied up with the black eyed element - RJ has been pointing out to us all along that BLACK EYED aiel are among the forces of the DO

 

And even if the Aiel who travelled to the blight and were captured were originally channelers, they may have been bred and had non-channelling offspring - or non channelling Aiel may have been captured throughout the 3000 years post breaking

[Pinzarn]

I think it's more likely that the big unknown thing up in the Blight is a human city whose residents are sworn to the Shadow.

 

And even if the Aiel who travelled to the blight and were captured were originally channelers, they may have been bred and had non-channelling offspring - or non channelling Aiel may have been captured throughout the 3000 years post breaking

 

I am leaning towards the big unknown thing in the Blight is an Aiel-ish city. More along the lines of captured/turned Aiel male channelers, various offspring of captured Borderlanders (forced breeding), and offspring of captured Aiel (more forced breeding).

[Mugiwara]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

 

Myddraal are sterile...

 

Well the thing is that Myrddraal are still born, odd offspring of Trollocs (though we don't really know how trolloc's are born). If they are born it would imply there ARE children? Though these guys are not that clearly. The merchant thought they were Aiel so they must look like Aiel, borderlanders know what Aiel look like. We also know that Aiel have darkfriends. We also know that Aiel youth sometimes go to blight to go "hunting for trollocs" or some such. Needless to say some are captured, add to that the darkfriend Aiel who might betray some of these youth groups, some forced breeding. Tada, Aiel who are darkfriends, army of them to fight Rand's Aiel. Filed teeth might also mean cannibals ;).

[LordMikeRahl]

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

 

Myddraal are sterile...

 

Well the thing is that Myrddraal are still born, odd offspring of Trollocs (though we don't really know how trolloc's are born). If they are born it would imply there ARE children? Though these guys are not that clearly. The merchant thought they were Aiel so they must look like Aiel, borderlanders know what Aiel look like. We also know that Aiel have darkfriends. We also know that Aiel youth sometimes go to blight to go "hunting for trollocs" or some such. Needless to say some are captured, add to that the darkfriend Aiel who might betray some of these youth groups, some forced breeding. Tada, Aiel who are darkfriends, army of them to fight Rand's Aiel. Filed teeth might also mean cannibals ;).

My theory is the children of Mirdraal (we know they do things to women that leave them scarred for life but it never says these women don't get pregnant) so basically hybrid shadowspawn

Seriously? I really hope that's a joke

 

Look, the entire scenario that introduces these guys is presented from the PoV of a dying merchant. We're not in some third-person narrator's perspective for this, nor are we in the perspective of a character we could trust to properly interpret what they witness. The merchant thinks they're like fades, then that they're like Aiel. They have spears and red veils. They're encountered in the Borderlands near the Blight. The whole "Aiel" thing to me reads like a giant red-herring. There's a bunch of superficial similarities designed to make the reader think they're some kind of Aiel, heck Aiel are even directly mentioned. But it seems more likely to me that these guys have nothing whatsoever to do with Aiel, or at least no more to do with Aiel than with any other Randland culture.

 

I think it's more likely that the big unknown thing up in the Blight is a human city whose residents are sworn to the Shadow. Similarities in their clothing and weapons with the Aiel can be explained by the fact that living in the Waste and living the Blight would be very similar. It's very hot, common objects like sticks and rocks can kill, potable water is scarce, and breathing the air can be dangerous or unpleasant at times. The true Aiel adopted veils to cover their faces when committing violence, to hide their shame in abandoning the Way of the Leaf. But they kept those veils in the Waste, when everybody but the chiefs and the Wise Ones forgot they ever followed the Way, because face-coverings are darned handy in a desert. They'd be equally handy in the Blight. Same thing with spears. They're a light, easily wielded and maneuverable weapon, ideally suited to both attack and defense, small enough to be useful in stealthy scouting operations, and robust enough to be a main weapon in outright battle. If I had to pick a weapon to defend myself from an attacker or to attack an enemy, and I had a spear, a sword, a stave, an axe and a hammer to choose from, I'd pick the spear every time.

 

Basically, the circumstantial evidence that links these new bad guys to Aiel is way too circumstantial. We don't see anything really culturally unique to the Aiel reflected in these red-veiled warriors, and the weak circumstantial evidence we do get is given in such as way as to just scream out Red-Herring! That said, there is more evidence linking these guys to Aiel than there is evidence linking them to any kind of channelers, because there's none of that. There's no flames erupting from nowhere, or earthquakes rending the ground, or lightning striking nearby, or anything at all to indicate any kind of channeling, past or present. We don't know how the Borderguard fort was overrun, or whether channeling was used in destroying it or not.

 

So, no evidence that they're channelers, and weak evidence to suggest any connection to Aiel, evidence that could easily be a red-herring. On the other hand, we know there's something big in the Blight and we know humans live in the Blight, but we've never seen them, only evidence of their existence in the form of farming Blight-resistant crops and the transplanted village. A simple matter of parsimony leads me to believe this is our first look at these Blight-natives.

 

I hadn't thought of an Aiel- Dark Borderlandish city in the Blight but that's quite possible, a means for the DO to bolster his forces by forced breeding between captured Aiel and Borderlanders going into the Blight. Their strange behavior can very well be like u guys said their turning 13x13. As to whether they are channelers, as many of Aiel channelers go into the Blight it is really likely but from the thousands of years of inter-breeding they could have lost all OP and culture and as u said become the denizens of the Blight. Guess we' ll have to see what happens in MoL, can't wait !

[csnyder]

Assumedly, all Aielmen who went to Shayol Ghul/Blight who could channel were wilders...the less than 25% (1 in 4 in women...is this assumption to be shared with men?) of the entire channelable Aiel male (that rhymes!) population (some horribly miniscule number as it has to be less than 1% of the population on the Rand World). It goes almost without saying that most of these had to be turned (also, I assume that the turned ones were made into mates for retired from the Tower BA/other female channelers). This Borderlander/Aiel Dark City (where did the Darkfriend Social take place?) has to be out there. Additionally, this hypothesized mating practice sounds very close to the Ayyad; makes me suspect them even more for being a continent of the Dark (despite the secrecy...)! What is the necessity of the sharpened teeth though?