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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

csnyder

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Everything posted by csnyder

  1. I have heard elsewhere on the forums that only a portion of the Sharan population was undertaken by Demandred's charms... Can someone give me a link for this? Also, (this is according to the BWB, so the evidence IS flawed) if the Ayyad cull channeling men for mating stock, then how do the Sharan male channelers we see work out? You'd assume that they would be depressed eunuchs (figuratively...)...
  2. Egwene/Nynaeve/Elayne are also different with Moghedien because they have actually touched the Source one way or another. Here are the possibilities; individual functions based on each status (entirely possible): Please amend as needed. x. bracelet : necklace (examples -> bracelet, necklace) CHARACTERISTIC 1. channeler, potential : channeler, potential NECKLACED-ONE LEASHED/NOTHING? 2. channeler, potential : channeler, blocked (some sul'dam-damane) NORMAL?* 3. channeler, potential : channeler, burnt out 4. channeler, potential : channeler, standard (some sul'dam-damane; Renna, Egwene) NORMAL? 5. channeler, potential : channeler, stilled 6. channeler, standard : channeler, standard (Egwene/Elayne, Moghedien) NORMAL? 7. channeler, standard : channeler, blocked 8. channeler, standard : channeler, burnt out 9. channeler, standard : channeler, potential (Egwene, Renna) NORMAL? 10. channeler, standard : channeler, stilled 11. channeler, blocked : channeler, blocked 12. channeler, blocked : channeler, burnt out 13. channeler, blocked : channeler, potential 14. channeler, blocked : channeler, standard (Nynaeve, Moghedien) UNBLOCKED ACCESS?** 15. channeler, blocked : channeler, stilled (Nynaeve, Siuan/Leane) SOMETHING THERE 16. channeler, burnt out : channeler, burnt out 17. channeler, burnt out : channeler, blocked 18. channeler, burnt out : channeler, potential 19. channeler, burnt out : channeler, standard (Setalle, Joline) PAIN 20. channeler, burnt out : channeler, stilled 21. channeler, stilled : channeler, stilled 22. channeler, stilled : channeler, blocked 23. channeler, stilled : channeler, burnt out 24. channeler, stilled : channeler, potential 25. channeler, stilled : channeler, standard (Siuan/Leane, Moghedien) CAN SENSE LEASHED 26. non-channeler : non-channeler (a la damane testing) NOTHING 27. non-channeler : channeler, standard (For example, sul'dam testing, potentially volatile) NOTHING 28. non-channeler : channeler, potential NOTHING*** EXCEPTIONS 29. channeler, potential : channeler, male (assume damane cannot hold bracelet)**** DEATH 30. channeler, male : channeler, standard/blocked/potential (damane; potential = bad luck) DEATH 31. channeler, male : channeler, male ? *Might be differences between two. **Depends on if actual links through channeler : channeler are possible; or if it still follows the behavioristic control mechanism. ***Assumedly, non-channeler : channeler, x would result in NOTHING. ****Disregards channeler, male status.
  3. It is logical to consider that the Prophecies this side of the Aryth Ocean were 'tampered' with as well. And I am in Terez's boat saying there are probably pre-Luthair Seanchan elements to the Essanik Cycle - I just hate how in the dark we are about the requirements for getting any said prophecy annexed to the Karaethon Cycle.
  4. Since the sul'dam has never touched the Source, it is impossible for her to conventionally link with damane; also, the power-level augmentation (in conventional circles, two channelers' strengths are combined making them stronger than an individual channeler but not at full strength as individuals together - if that makes sense) is also unseen between sul'dam and damane. This shows that it is NOT a linked circle and therefore would not buffer against overdrawing. Although, the sul'dam could most likely make it so unbearable for the damane if she even attempted; however, that being said, I think the click we saw in TAR of Egwene beating the a'dam is somewhat a reflection of the truth of the a'dam in reality = she had more willpower than her 'sul'dam' (Mesaana). The BA method of forcing channelers into their circles must be similar to this, however, the fact that the channelers forcing others into these circles can channel themselves serves as an indirect reflection of the nature of the a'dam as a ter'angreal. Originally, the holders of any bracelet (male or female) were aware and able to channel. Over time, the male one must have become so rarely implemented that Deain either created/possessed the female version. After Luthair received it, he must have insisted to collar all channelers and had/searched for 'regular' people to control the a'dam. Ultimately, the a'dam has many functions that were not expected by the creators; but, potentially, the leashed can overcome/deal with the channeling sickness - and suicide, I believe, isn't too far out of the equation. As you said, I am sure the sul'dam have tried to implement ways to avoid this outcome, but that doesn't make it impossible.
  5. Thanks, I had forgotten that bit. What I get from trying to remember instead of looking it up The issue with this is that it is still possible; remember there have been incidents of damane going haywire - not only around the periphery of Ebou Dar IIRC. If it is the case that they only went haywire because of the incorrect ter'angreal implementation then it may be that ter'angreal affect each other in ways not only as is but also if they are being mishandled.
  6. We hear about the 'forced circles' when Seaine and Co. coerce Talene into withdrawing the BA Oaths in KoD. However, stating that the a'dam is a ter'angreal with equivalent functions of a 'forced circle' is problematic. That is, not only can the sul'dam seldom not see the weaves or know them for what they are, the sul'dam cannot even touch the True Source. The only ability they have through the bracelet is the ability to know the status of their damane, but also the ability to compulse feelings (mainly uncomfortable ones to be used as behavioristic controls) which makes it more akin to the traditional Warder bond (with the bracelet holder being the AS).
  7. Another reason there are no DF (at least among the Kin around Elayne/Sea Folk around Elayne) is the fact that the BA (Careane) was actively creating friction between the two groups a la Lord of Chaos Rule strategy and the BA's surprise at the Kin's sheer numbers. I would like the plot device that all Kin were Shadow, but I find it very unlikely; especially due to the Forsaken's haughtiness with those weak in the Power/improperly trained. To revert to the topic at hand, Verin, let's try and refrain from speculation that Verin is Nakomi from a Mirror World and work with suppositions that have some textual evidence. I might throw out the idea that AS and Aiel are aliens from another world that are actually anomalies in Randland and the DO is trying to snuff them out as a self-correcting mechanism of the Pattern. Through a long period of breeding with actual Randlandworlders, the formerly blond/blue-eyed AS branched out to encompass other parts of the World - making the Nakomi we saw the pure/untainted soul-version of Verin from her and the AS/Aiel's original homeland/world. In any case, Verin, while an important proprieter of the Purge, was not the sole reason she was merely quite efficient at finding them; remember AS balked at the idea of the BA's existence (this may have been a technique of the BA themselves...) so Seaine making that ideological step and actually REUSING the Oath Rod was quite a big deal.
  8. yoniy0 - Considering Tarna Feir, the fact that she was turned via 13x13 does not immediately put her out of the BA. Verin's Purge may have changed protocol as other wishy-washy BA probably exist making it necessary to turn all of those in addition to those who follow the Light; however, I do recognize this as a weakpoint to my theory (and Elaida did bring her in...). rand4747 - I agree. Some evil must be necessary for the greater good, a usual means versus objective issue. I believe those red-wax-sealed-letters were written for the greater good, yet makes me wonder whether other red-wax-sealed-letters were sent to evil people considerably out of the loop...Perhaps, Verin is not the only one wanting to return to the Light. Why would Alanna have gone to Arafel at the behest of Verin? Placing oneself in front of an enemy horde while being a considerable weakness to Rand's well-being is immediately suspicious. Edynol - While not downplaying Verin's efforts whatsoever, the in-Tower AS accidentally urged by Elaida assisted in the Purge as well. However, the BA was aware of the Sitters gathering, and this may have been what alerted those within the Tower to flee. Or maybe, the Seanchan attack was urged by the Dark and the BA were requested to flee after/during this time.
  9. Ebou Dar, Altara. Post-Seanchan. Lavish parties minus the strange smell from the Rahad and the threat of the beggar guild.
  10. I think Far Madding will be targeted and balefired by the Shadow, or maybe it will be used as a crux versus the Seanchan.
  11. Elaida. I have this weird feeling that many of the things she put into motion (even accidentally) will eventually really help out the Light. She single-handedly, albeit unintentionally, set forth in motion the idea to root out the BA through Seaine. Trying to maintain Tower-connections with Andor will probably be essential in the recovering of Caemlyn - perhaps even through revealing Traveling to the Seanchan, the Seanchan will instead focus efforts on rooting out the Dark and will be extremely effective in doing so with this weave (and maybe they will practice Unweaving with the Aiel Wise One damane to help in the testing making incredible OP weapons for the Light). We were made to hate her to the point of her being unreemable, but I have this notion that her chaos will help the Light in the end. Hell, even her Palace will probably be made into some residences for non-AS channelers visiting the Tower or something of the ilk.
  12. Hm, based on such it seems RJ meant for Verin's heart to be clandestine. It is kind of funny how despite such secrecy a little Compulsion (which would most like be run-of-the-mill) revealed a greater proportion of the Black Ajah. The timing of the WT escape is just too soon despite the secrecy to hide Verin's body and hints that any of those who happened upon/knew about Verin's being in the Tower (at least Turese, Meidani, Laras, and Nicola + "Egwene's supporters") are put to immediate suspicion. I need to reread the post-GS books to see who could have known. What makes Verin particularly suspicious is the fact that she was approached by Mesaana (in the Tower?) at least twice - providing a hint that she was of rather high standing or was on quite an important assignment. Hiding Fera and Elza, and not putting them on the Light's priority is also highly suspect. All being said, I feel as if those in Verin's heart/informant were rather upper echelon BA based on the fact of her proximity of Rand in the entirety of the series. I am a little conflicted with Sheriam's connections with Verin, however, and her reaction at Verin being the revealer matches with a most probable informer-informer/heart member connection. Maybe because of their mutual high standing Sheriam was shocked at Verin's true alliance. BA placed: Sheriam as Siuan's Mistress of Novices, Salidar Leader, Egwene's Keeper; Alviarin as Elaida's Keeper; Verin placed close among the three boys. -Marith Jaen as Amyrlin Seat; a blank period with little historical significance.- Duhara Basaheen served as Keeper to Sierin Vayu - very probably a period in which the BA had much influence/came to power. (Suspicion; must of had many other Foretellings considering the DR - NS Ch. 8, + the whole Slayer Fiasco, - sending Tigraine to the Waste)Gitara Moroso to Tamra Ospenya. Among the three 'leaders' (AS, Keeper, Mistress of Novices) of the AS association, at least one has been BA recently...This puts Tarna Feir in a suspicious position and may explain her strange ways of acting.) Sheriam's efficiency in collecting most of the dream ter'angreal reveals how well her managerial skill is. and maybe she incorporated Darker Accepted and Novices in addition to BA to assist in the collection process.
  13. The DO allows channeling rarely; primarily for Traveling by the Forsaken to nearby Shayol Ghul. I remember reading RJ stating an otherwordliness of the Blight, but perhaps Shayol Ghul is not included in this? Meaning that perhaps Shayol Ghul is the anchor/gateway that allows the otherwordliness to ebb out...
  14. 1) I have this inkling that her heart encompassed Liandrin and Alviarin (might as well be, they all end in 'rin'). 2) The informant has been stated to be Galina (as she knows of Alviarin), but are we to assume that each individual member of a single heart has its own informants? Or that the entire heart has one informant?
  15. This is one I can think of that I can't seem able to find... 1)Who were the other members of her heart? 2)Who was her informant?
  16. Taim's quarters and the BT are definitely separate from each other, for reasons of trapping turned men and Logain/Rand's men in a bloody Asha'man war actually on the BT premises while TG is faught in/near the Blight. The reason for the dreamspike will be to be to trap people in there so they cannot make it out to assist in the actual TG; and, I am not sure how far the 13x13 turning process has been followed through with, but exactly due to that lack of information everyone will suspect almost everyone else. Basically, Rand/Logain's men will be killing each other in there, and, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if most if not all of those still in the BT fighting him are actually turned-Lightsiders. All the while, Taim and his men are making ragdolls of the Light in the Blight (that rhymed).
  17. This is interesting. If, for example, say someone was a 'learner' and had yet to hold the OP or make that initial connection with the power; since it has been stated that someone who has yet to channel themselves are incapable of being severed would that make any attempts of severing them pre-channeling be futile or can they only be really cut off once they've channeled. Say Elyas, out of nowhere, is able to channel once an asha'man tests him for the skill - would he still be cut off per the severing he suffered years ago or would it have had an effect on him? Ba'al Mistress - I think sul'dam experience does either one of two things; one, makes you build a near-indestructible block or two, pushes you so close to falling over that metaphorical cliff that you are on your tip-toes. It does not, apparently, allow for severing or serve as a direct connection to the Source.
  18. D**n my temporary bout with dyslexia! Tylee, not Kylee. Barid and GB - I understand where you are coming with the Egeanin option, it would also give her the opportunity to get some revenge against Tuon for singlehandedly lowering her status. Egeanin has been the rare character, too, to toss off the chains that bind and really take a look and interest in Randland; however, that being said, if she has given up on Seanchan what would her motivation be in actively seeking to destroy it (of which, that great hatred we have yet to see from her)? This is why I believe one of the sul'dam-made-damane would have quite the motivation to take the system down - rather than accepting slavery, the two have been given second chances and would not like those chances dashed by Tuon. They are the poster-child damane that Egwene has been waiting for whilst impatiently sitting on her hands.
  19. I have to disagree. I agree that linking does not allow for full strength stacking (It is not 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=13; where 1 equals a single person's full strength); however, it does allow for 0.9+0.9+0.9+0.9...=a definitely higher number than 1, which as a single unit far surpasses any individual's strength unaided. The benefits of coordination and precision are directly related to strength in the OP, and these benefits are due to the fact that one person leads the circle. rand4747 - I agree. The a'dam, in my mind, is a 0+1 (where the 0 is the non-channeling sul'dam controlling the damane [1, at full power] through behaviorist methodology) versus Egwene's enhanced 0.9+0.9+0.9...circle.
  20. I always wondered why the Taim-Asha'man always Traveled to the Palace, maybe it is in the <City> in the Blight and will put Rand and Co. (or maybe Logain, sans Rand and Co.) in the proper arena for TG. Speaking of, only one of Logain's men has been changed (assumedly) alongside one of his AS; does this mean that 'Taim' realized the imbalance of the primitives with male/female channeler Warders and is taking proper initiative in 'balancing' either through the changed AS or/and the BA (or perhaps Taim removed all of the BA from the Tower prior to the purge). Maybe Elaida's Foretelling had to do with Taim balancing the servants and the soldiers for Links...it sure is going to be bloody! The Stedding and SG (the greater Blight area in its entirety is otherworldly, though...)share this TAR inaccesible trait as well as the channeling buffer (the DO does not allow channeling near him, I specifically remember one of the Forsaken saying this when they went to SG). Can anyone determine if Far Madding is TAR accessible?
  21. This is following the post-Seanchan mingling episode where Aviendha not only managed to break a promise concerning keeping an eye on Rand for Elayne through Egwene, she did the exact thing she was supposed to keep an eye on him for - considering the fact that breaking an oath is a big deal for wetlanders, breaking an oath by being the direct cause by an Aiel is considerably worse. She is not being serious with killing Rand, for obvious reasons (him being mankind's messiah and her love interest besides...), just mocking herself with the situation she has gotten herself in. Remember that Aviendha is our medium to the Aiel mindset, so all of the cultural intricacies are rather magnified to prove a point. That being said, through killing Rand her toh to Egwene and the Aiel Wise Ones could not be fulfilled (albiet/due to the fact it being destined for her to fall in love with him) and by killing herself she could not fulfill her toh to Elayne (because she owed Elayne indirectly through Egwene; the only way to recover this is through something alike the beating Egwene took when she revealed her lies)...
  22. Do I lose ji if I jump on the Taim-Moridin bandwagon now?
  23. Ah! I finally see where our discussion points differ Vardarmus. Let's return to the original function of the a'dam; remember how some sul'dam can see the weaves and others cannot? I believe this splits the sul'dam into two groups - the ones able to see weaves and the others unable to. To use your pipe metaphor, the sul'dam who can see the weaves but do not know with this means fits in nicely. They are on the brink of channeling, meaning that they are in the process of the original pipe-building/installation. Essentially, the ones who cannot see the weaves are in the installation process as well, but with a thick layer of cement (hell, let's make it cuendillar) planted firmly between the female-tubing and male-tubing (I am not a plumber or what have you, but the one side that you put a connecting tube into and the other side which accepts the other tube...). The water flow (the OP) will not flow through the pipe until that initial connection (diving over the brink) is made...this is where the sul'dam stand. In any case, the sul'dam-damane 'involuntary link' (thanks Sharaman and yoniy0 for your input, let me state rather than imply that the a'dam is an advanced and patented version of the Warder bond... ) is not a link through which the damane serves as a conduit/medium for the sul'dam to actually touch the True Source like an angreal is to an individual channeler. Rather, the bracelet is a ter'angreal that can be used by potential and actual channelers through which to compulse the unfortunate leashed individual (through extensive training). Through some means, the ter'angreal does not allow non-channelers to control the bracelet - and the exact reasoning and nature of brinkers (learners) is unknown and left to speculation until it is clarified. One such test to be made, in addition to the sul'dam in a Stedding test, is whether a learner (or a sul'dam, for that matter) can use one of Elayne's dream ter'angreal that only channelers can use.
  24. I had this image of Seta and Bethamin submitting themselves to Egwene because she essentially freed them from their fates as damane - initially they interpreted the situation incorrectly, however their time with Joline, Teslyn and the other AS might have shown them the light. And these characters have had to be set up for some reason, and Seta being collared by Egwene and crew would make a nice balance for the ending...
  25. Luckers - That angreal can be used in 'forced circles'? If that's the case was the Elayne removing the bracelet related to exceeding the thirteen women limit in LoC (maybe ACoS...)? So, quick question concerning 'forced circles'. With the a'dam, I assume this is not a traditional 'let's hold hands' circle so the OP strength does not improve for the wielder - is this the case with the sad bracelets or did Semirhage's OP strength get augmented with Rand (and Elza's?)?
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