Mat and Tuon? What exactly is the basis of their relationship?

[Awakened]

Maybe I am just dense, but I can't see anything bringing these two together outside of Mat's Tavern nature forcing this marriage on both of them. Mat doesn't much care for nobles or royalty, and Tuon isn't just royalty, she is scary to boot. She breaks damane for fun, and she could kill you as soon as look at you. Mat is a free spirited hero who avoids the trappings of nobility like the plague. He may have feelings for Tuon (no idea where those came from) but she doesn't even love him. What exactly do the two have that makes them compatible for marriage?

[Feral]

Never heard of arranged marriages then? Getting married without love being involved is quite normal in our world, so it would be a bit unrealistic if EVERY marriage in the WoT was a perfectly mutual loving thing. I find the whole thing quite sweet lol.

[David Selig]

Two self fulfilling prophesies, of course. Without them none of them would've ever given the other the other even a second glance. I guess RJ considered this ironic, but it's just annoying to me.

 

Though in fairness, later on the relationship is decently developed, especially by the really low WoT standards for romance. But I can't get over the really forced start due to the prophesies.

[SylviaDoreen]

I would like to say I think their relationship is one of the most complicated in Randland.

 

Consider this.. what better way to unite 2 different hemispheres than marrying off the Lord Dragons best friend to an empress on the other side of the ocean?

And what can be more appealing to a person who's known responsibility and had to fend off assassinations most of her life than a truly free spirit like Mat?

 

Not to mention that he's a military mastermind... on many fronts this marriage would liven up things for Tuon quite a bit... Not to mention not actually getting plotted against 24/7 by the prince of ravens.

 

Sure theirs isn't pure love, but I like the refreshing change of pace.

[Terez]

It didn't seem forced to me. It definitely seemed forced to Mat, though. The forced bit wasn't a huge inconvenience to Tuon, since she was prepared for an arranged marriage.

 

For Mat, it was a matter of pride. The whole 'marriage words' thing was believable, and after that, it just began to irk him that Tuon seemed to have no interest in him whatsoever. After it became clear to him that Tuon was humoring his marriage proposal - she bypassed opportunity for escape - then things stepped up a notch. I think Mat enjoyed conquering her, making her lose control of herself (if only slightly) when he kissed her, etc. At this point, Mat has gotten accustomed to being forced by the Pattern to do things he doesn't like, so he decided to find something to like about it.

[Guest Czechs In The M'Hael]

Two self fulfilling prophesies, of course. Without them none of them would've ever given the other the other even a second glance. I guess RJ considered this ironic, but it's just annoying to me.

 

I dont think it was meant to be ironic, but I do agree its self fulfilling. It is basically that two people are told that they will marry and are given a clue to identify the partner. Mat got her title in advance, Tuon was told her husband would know Hawkwings face. The outcome is ultimately Rand having access to Seanchan resources whether directly or indirectly, by deliberate action or "coincedence." Its a basic concept, I dont find it to be annoying or anything myself, just (unnderstandably) lacking in comparison to some other sidelines. For example I think if circumstances were different, RJ would have had more time to deal with everything and possibly have a good chunk devoted just to the Seanchan, not unlike the Aiel having Fires of Heaven pretty much to themselves.

[randsc]

They've spent far more time together than Rand and Elayne.

[USURP888]

I agree that they wouldn't have given each other a second glance if not for the predictions they got about who they will be marrying, but I must say that Mat and Tuon's oddball courtship and romance was the only thing that salvaged COT for me, and its continuation in KOD made the book one of my favorites.

 

Compared to the rest of the RJ love teams in the whole series, these two took time to know each other and we see the respect and the attraction develop over time. Mat admitted to himself that he did love tuon and Tuon ( although she denies it to herself )has been showing signs of love and worry for Mat as well.

 

I sincerely hope that from this union comes the solution to the Seanchan and the rest of Randland uniting. When Mat spoke with Bethamin and Seta before they left for Tar Valon with the Aes Sedai, the two damanes were told that they should live so Mat can find a way to fix the damane mess. I really really hope that this is a foreshadowing that will come to fruition in AMOL.

[spoke]

I mentioned this a little bit in this thread

Mat is Aemon

 

If Mat really is Aemon reborn and Tuon is Elderene reborn, then, it explains why they had the two self-fulfilling prophecies. But the results of the two complete and opposite characters made the entire courting sequence extremely funny.

[WhiskyJack]

One is into exotic things and duty and another just fancies what he cannot have!

[randsc]

I mentioned this a little bit in this thread

Mat is Aemon

 

If Mat really is Aemon reborn and Tuon is Elderene reborn, then, it explains why they had the two self-fulfilling prophecies. But the results of the two complete and opposite characters made the entire courting sequence extremely funny.

 

Leaving Mat aside, from your posts on the two threads, your position on Tuon seems to amount to this:

 

Tuon is most likely Eldrene reborn, because of her relationship with Mat. Her relationship with Mat was pre-destined, because she is Eldrene reborn.

[randsc]

One is into exotic things and duty and another just fancies what he cannot have!

 

Oh, I suspect he can and will.

[HighWiredSith]

So, did Matt and Tuon fulfill prophecy by hooking up or did the prophecy cause Matt and Tuon to hookup? The old chicken and egg dilemma. I always thought it fishy that Matt so eagerly embraced his foretelling, going so far as to actually kidnap Tuon when escaping Ebo Daur, a move that surely made an already risky escape exponentially riskier. He seems so intent on denying taveren and every other prophecy that even remotely seems involved in...

[PhoenixUK]

So, did Matt and Tuon fulfill prophecy by hooking up or did the prophecy cause Matt and Tuon to hookup? The old chicken and egg dilemma. I always thought it fishy that Matt so eagerly embraced his foretelling, going so far as to actually kidnap Tuon when escaping Ebo Daur, a move that surely made an already risky escape exponentially riskier. He seems so intent on denying taveren and every other prophecy that even remotely seems involved in...

 

i think they were both already on the lookout for each other because of the Finn and Damane prophecies. So when they saw what they needed to see (daughter of nine moons, mat's ring) they knew straight away. Mat's been agonising about TDOTNM thing for several books. I think he kidnapped her because by this point he realised if he didn't, she would end up in his life anyway (either by following him or him getting captured so he could be trapped with her again). So he took some control over it by bringing her along (something Rand realised in books 4+5).

 

It is a v weird courtship, Tuon has some terrible characteristics from her royal seanchan upbringing (like re damane), but maybe she will learn, after spending time with Setalle and mat.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Obviously as weird as that courtship was it will certainly end up in the legends and Thom will atleast make one song on it and without ta'veren nudging it would have never happened, but I think those two are quite a good match.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that while Tuon has that extremely stern mindset imprinted upon her in her upbringing deep down she hungers for the pleasures and the freedom which she has never encountered as daughter of the empress. Mat pretty much embodies that free spirit and at the same time he shows himself as extremely capable, brave, steadfast and most importantly as trustworthy. Tuon went out of her way to test him in quite a number of ways before she consented to marrying him.

 

As for Mat, I think Tuon fits him quite well. For one she's a constant challenge. Mat's nature is that of a gambler and trickster. So it shouldn't be a surprise that he finds a dangerous woman which is hard to read and even harder to catch like Tuon very appealing. Also the dichotomy of the sternness she usually shows and a playfulness which isn't all that different from Mat himself. And I think Tuon's trustworthiness is just as important to Mat as it is the other way around.

 

Things like their disagreements over the treatment of channellers or Mat's prejudice against nobility are really quite minor.

[Erunion]

Obviously as weird as that courtship was it will certainly end up in the legends and Thom will atleast make one song on it and without ta'veren nudging it would have never happened, but I think those two are quite a good match.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that while Tuon has that extremely stern mindset imprinted upon her in her upbringing deep down she hungers for the pleasures and the freedom which she has never encountered as daughter of the empress. Mat pretty much embodies that free spirit and at the same time he shows himself as extremely capable, brave, steadfast and most importantly as trustworthy. Tuon went out of her way to test him in quite a number of ways before she consented to marrying him.

 

As for Mat, I think Tuon fits him quite well. For one she's a constant challenge. Mat's nature is that of a gambler and trickster. So it shouldn't be a surprise that he finds a dangerous woman which is hard to read and even harder to catch like Tuon very appealing. Also the dichotomy of the sternness she usually shows and a playfulness which isn't all that different from Mat himself. And I think Tuon's trustworthiness is just as important to Mat as it is the other way around.

 

Things like their disagreements over the treatment of channellers or Mat's prejudice against nobility are really quite minor.

 

This.

Their relationship really, really works. These people are a great match. The only real problems with the relationship come from upbringing and prejudice (on both their parts, but mostly on Tuons).

[Finnssss22]

I mentioned this a little bit in this thread

Mat is Aemon

 

If Mat really is Aemon reborn and Tuon is Elderene reborn, then, it explains why they had the two self-fulfilling prophecies. But the results of the two complete and opposite characters made the entire courting sequence extremely funny.

 

Leaving Mat aside, from your posts on the two threads, your position on Tuon seems to amount to this:

 

Tuon is most likely Eldrene reborn, because of her relationship with Mat. Her relationship with Mat was pre-destined, because she is Eldrene reborn.

 

 

He clearly states his position as only if Mat is Aemon's soul reborn, then Tuon is Elderene's soul reborn. I agree 100% as do many others, IF Mat is indeed Aemon's soul reborn.

 

As far as Mat and Tuon's marriage...you have already made the most valid point so far imo.

They've spent far more time together than Rand and Elayne.

[UGAShadow]

Tuon is the sheltered princess (never been kissed).

 

 

Mat is the classic rogue bad boy.

 

 

Match made in heaven. Best romance plot IMO.