Your least favorite romantic subplot?

[100yearoldWhiskey]

How many romantic subplots are there in this series? I seemed to have lost count.

 

Anyway, I am constantly bothered by the romantic subplots in the entire Wheel of Time series. Not only are most of them filler, some don't even make sense at all. The worst example of this is (GET READY FOR IT).....Lan and Nynaeve. Ever since The Eye of the World, I was always baffled by this awkward relationship between Wisdom and Warder. The lack of foreshadowing, the opposite personalities, the odd conversations between the two. It just doesn't make sense to me. It really frustrates me that this romance just comes out of nowhere.

[Eichhörnchen]

RJ comes across as an awkward man. Considering his characterization of women in the series it's really no surprise that he is not the most competent writer when it comes to human interaction and relationships. He should stick to describing scenery, motionless objects, events and architecture. He clearly has the most talent there.

[Mystica]

actually I disagree. The Nyn/Lan thing makes sense. Nynaeve was never going to be swooned by overly dramatic romantic gestures and Lan never had much use for swooning, giggling, ohmygoshyoursostrong lala princesses. Both have duty and responsibility as their primary virtue and principle, both are loyal and dedicated to their people beyond any measure of what could be generally expected and both are willing and capable of commiting immense sacrifices for the greater good. Those are the things they recognised in each other and what drew them together. Nynaeve, being a hell of a lot younger than Lan, however still needed to mature in age and experience in order to match his level of maturity while Lan, being consumed by his duty and single-mindedness to avenge his dead nation needed a reason, a real reason, to live.

 

They were never going to be swooning over each other as two lovesick puppies. That's just not how they tick.

 

 

My choice for worst relationship is Perrin and Faile. I don't care what he became, she ruined him for me. She's STILL out to get her glory (all be it through her husband this time), after everything that happened. She STILL chafes at not being the top cheese in the bucket. Blah.... she's a complete waste of paper and always has been in my book. lol

[David Selig]

Tough one - most of them are pretty bad and come out of nowhere. For some reason RJ decided that all important character had to find the love of their life during the series, but didn't spent enough time and effort on those subplots, so most of them come across as really forced and awkward.

 

If I have to pick one which is the worst, it's probably Egwene and Gawyn. It comes out of the blue - (Egwene had eyes for Galad and didn't even register Gawyn's presence until Elayne told her "Galad is terrible for you, Gawyn likes you a lot and will be better for you. " After this conversation Egwene didn't see Gawyn for months, but decided he's the love of her life despite never talking directly to him onscreen in the series before that.

 

More importantly Egwene treats Gawyn horribly throughout their "relationship". Poor guy was even afraid she'll be mad at him for saving her life from the Bloodknives because he may have disobeyed her orders.

 

The idea that three women would accept so easily to share Rand is really annoying too.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Eggy and Gawyn are the worst in my opinion, but the main problem is that RJ decided to play matchmaker for too many characters.

[Niniel]

There are indeed a lot of lousy lovescenes in the serie. There are two relationships that I think is described pretty good and that is Nyn - Lan and Rand - Min. Rand - Avi is ok and even Perrin - Faile (even though she is too much.) Maybe I could count Siuan - Gareth in here as well and that just shows that there isn´t much good lovescenes to choose from.

 

The worst ones must be Rand - Elayne, Egw - Gawyn and the last couple in ToM. (Don´t know if spoilers are allowed here.)

 

Then there is a special cathegory for Mat - Tuon.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I agree, Lan and Nynaeve are perfect really. You see a lot of it through the first book if you look.

 

Mat - Tuon are awesome, even though Tuon is crazy, it is still a great pair i think.

 

Rand- Min I would like it to have just been this from the start, it is the most natural relationship i think.

 

Rand- Avi It is alright, it dont mind it really, but i would much rather it be just Min.

 

Rand - Elayne Utterly pointless apart from gaining Andor. She hasnt even tried to tell him about their own children! Surely a quick trip to meet him, or at least send the message through Avi. They have met like 6 times, i just dont understand it.

 

Perrin - Faile Unlike others, I think this is actually quite good. She does a lot of good for him. Sure, she was really immature in tSR and confusing as hell, but they support each other quite well.

 

Egwene- Gawyn. From Gawyn's side, it makes sense, he is totally obsessed with her, but Egwene kinda just decided "hey, i like him now" in all of 10 seconds. Their relationship is really a joke aswell. Basically, she wants him to grovel at his feet. The Amyrlin should not be in a relationship. She needs to rule, the relationship would turn out... well... exacctly how it has with Gawyn and her, ridiculously stupid.

 

Moiraine-Thom At first i didnt really get it, but re-reading, I can see it. I just wished he had put a bit more into it than he did, because if you dont look for it, it can seem quite abrupt.

 

Suian-Gareth I like it, its quite good i think, I like the interactions and the changes Suian is forced to see since her stilling.

[WhiskyJack]

Rand and all the chicas..

[WhiskyJack]

I agree, Lan and Nynaeve are perfect really. You see a lot of it through the first book if you look.

 

Mat - Tuon are awesome, even though Tuon is crazy, it is still a great pair i think.

 

Rand- Min I would like it to have just been this from the start, it is the most natural relationship i think.

 

Rand- Avi It is alright, it dont mind it really, but i would much rather it be just Min.

Rand - Elayne Utterly pointless apart from gaining Andor. She hasnt even tried to tell him about their own children! Surely a quick trip to meet him, or at least send the message through Avi. They have met like 6 times, i just dont understand it.

 

Perrin - Faile Unlike others, I think this is actually quite good. She does a lot of good for him. Sure, she was really immature in tSR and confusing as hell, but they support each other quite well.

 

Egwene- Gawyn. From Gawyn's side, it makes sense, he is totally obsessed with her, but Egwene kinda just decided "hey, i like him now" in all of 10 seconds. Their relationship is really a joke aswell. Basically, she wants him to grovel at his feet. The Amyrlin should not be in a relationship. She needs to rule, the relationship would turn out... well... exacctly how it has with Gawyn and her, ridiculously stupid.

 

Moiraine-Thom At first i didnt really get it, but re-reading, I can see it. I just wished he had put a bit more into it than he did, because if you dont look for it, it can seem quite abrupt.

 

Suian-Gareth I like it, its quite good i think, I like the interactions and the changes Suian is forced to see since her stilling.

 

 

Women like talk, dark and handsome...or so I have been told..Whats not to understand?

[Himiko]

Hmmm... whilst I don't object to the individual scenes between Rand and his 3 lovers, I don't see the point of it, TBH. I'm not a huge fan of Min, but she's the one who travels around with Rand, who he introduces to his father, etc. I'm fully aware that Aviendha and Elayne have important duties to attend to, and they cannot be with Rand all the time, nor he with them, and I know that Aviendha wants to wait and meet him as an equal, or whatever, but as others have said, they never try and see each other, or talk to each other, anything. I've not done a reread in a while, but once Elayne and Aviendha have their "relationship time" with Rand, it just seems like they're kept on in a triple love story because the author didn't want to break the couples up. I mean, yes, Elayne and Avi think about Rand occasionally, and he thinks about them occassionally, but sometimes it seems a bit forced, like it still some kind of epic love story, despite the fact that, to all intents and purposes, Rand is with Min, has been for the last however many books, with a brief interlude to knock up Elayne. I don't really mind the "outcome", if they all want him afterwards, fine, if some die, I might be sad (I like Avi, don't mind Elayne or Min), or if he/they choose, fine. But it doesn't really ring true for me, at the moment.

 

As mentioned before, I don't like the dynamics of the Egwene/Gawyn relationship.

 

As also mentioned before, I really like Faile, and I like her relationship with Perrin ^^

 

I love Nynaeve, but her relationship with Lan, whilst nice enough, is not one of the things that particularly interests me about her, and Lan annoys me at times.

 

Sooo, yeah, I guess Egwene/Gawyn is my least favourite, but Rand/Min/Elayne/Aviendha is, IMO, one of the worst written.

[Mordaunt]

Bayle Domon and Lielwin Shipless.

 

Just doesn't work. Bayle used to be awesome, now he's in the shadow of a disgraced enemy.

[herid]

I agree with the others about Gawyn-Egwene. One problem with that one and also with some others like Rand-Min, Rand-Elayne and Nynaeve-Lan is that characters fall deeply in love after spending very little time together and little or no screen time is spent on it. After which they sometimes remain in love after being apart a very long time which is not natural either.

 

I do like Mat with all the women in his life (Melindhra, Tylin and Tuon) even though I hate Tuon. I do find it ironic that for such a freedom loving guy his main three relationships are with women who sort of "own" him.

[capuga]

Rand and Elayne. They've spent a total of what, two weeks together? And he loves her just as much as Avi and Min who he actually has spent time developing relationships with? Easily the most underdeveloped relationship in the books.

[brolie]

My choice for worst relationship is Perrin and Faile. I don't care what he became, she ruined him for me. She's STILL out to get her glory (all be it through her husband this time), after everything that happened. She STILL chafes at not being the top cheese in the bucket. Blah.... she's a complete waste of paper and always has been in my book. lol

 

This is EXACTLY how i feel. thank you.

 

i think the rand/elayne thing is mostly just lust, which is why she was so "put out", so to speak, at the fact that rand had slept with both min and avi before her... when they were together they were always caught kissing in the hallways and such... i think min is the best fit for rand.. she actually knows him and he feels safe with her... the love "square" thing though just seems so out of place and like a spun out idea that accidentally made it to paper. i dont like it at all, but i suppose the ultimate reason for it was the bonding so that certain story lines could connect to rand when they weren't really there.

[David Selig]

Rand and Elayne. They've spent a total of what, two weeks together? And he loves her just as much as Avi and Min who he actually has spent time developing relationships with? Easily the most underdeveloped relationship in the books.

Two weeks only if we count all of the time in the Stone, but it's clear that before the last 3 days (after Elayne admitted her feelings to Rand) they've hardly been together at all and didn't talk much. The day before that Elayne said "I hardly know Rand. I’ve talked with him no more than half a dozen times in the space of a year.".

 

I guess the members of the Trakand family are so incredibly beautiful and sexy that people don't need to talk to them or or get to know them at all before falling madly in love with them. Egwene's declaration of eternal love to Gawyn was pretty much the first thing she ever said to him onscreen. Or maybe this gene comes from Taringail, since Galad has it too, as we saw with Berelain. ;)

[Zentari]

Rand and Elayne. They've spent a total of what, two weeks together? And he loves her just as much as Avi and Min who he actually has spent time developing relationships with? Easily the most underdeveloped relationship in the books.

This.It came out of nowhere, even more than any other romance in there.

 

 

 

I guess the members of the Trakand family are so incredibly beautiful and sexy that people don't need to talk to them or or get to know them at all before falling madly in love with them. Egwene's declaration of eternal love to Gawyn was pretty much the first thing she ever said to him onscreen. Or maybe this gene comes from Taringail, since Galad has it too, as we saw with Berelain. ;)

It led to one of the best scenes ever : tea?

[spoke]

The worst by Far is Elayne/Rand. They spent a total of 3 days kissing in the stone, the next time they meet, she bonds him and they make love. That is a truely deep and meaningful relationship.

 

By far though the best is the Mat/Tuon relationship. He is a womanizer who doesn't want to get married, sleeps around with barmaids, and is forced into it by his taveren nature, only to not be able to consummate his marriage. That by far is the best relationship in the book. Every time I read through it all, I can't help not laughing.

[randsc]

Honestly, it would take considerably less time to list the GOOD romantic subplott than the BAD. Jordan just wasn't good at this.

 

I hate the Egwene/Gawyn and Perrin/Faile pairings, but they actually make some sense.

 

Gawyn is love-struck, and has been trained from birth to do as women tell him. Egwene finds nothing so delightful as a "partner dedicating to seeing her will done." (I just LOVE that definition of "partner", don't you?). Plus, they're both awful, awful people, and deserve each other.

 

The Perrin/Faile relationship also makes sense. Obviously, I hated the whole, "FAAAIIAIILLLEEEE!!!!" arc as much as everyone else. But given that Perrin's entire family had been slaughtered, I can understand the extreme reaction to potentially loosing the one person he has left. And Faile's somewhat strange Saldaen and/or Bashere sexual preferences require someone she can goad. They make sense.

 

No, the worst of the worst is Rand/Elayne, a relationship that only exists because convention says that the prince-in-hiding must marry the princess. As others have pointed out, they don't even know each other. At best, they have a strong shared lust.

 

For the best, I vote Nynaeve/Lan post-Sea Folk wedding. There's something to be said for adopting the Sea Folk wedding vows in the real world, never mind the world of tWoT. I am quite convinced that Egwene would be vastly improved if she were married under such an understanding.

[brolie]

As much as i love mat and tuon, i wonder if it would have even happened if mat didn't know it was supposed to... the aelfinn told him he would marry her so he looked for her and kidnapped her when he found out who she was instead of just leaving her. the term "daughter of the nine moons" wouldnt have meant a darn thing to him if they hadn't told him he would marry her so it might have changed everything if he hadn't known... like the whole matrix thing "would you still have knocked over the vase if i hadn't said anything"

[Puny]

My least fav is Rand/Elayne, not for the reason that they have only talked for a couple of days and mostly just lusted for each other, but just... that it seems constructed. He just thinks about her now and then, and she is so awesome and her golden hair is like...silky shiny gold.

 

I like Rand/Min and always have, their relationship as Rand´s/Avi´s has had time to grow and evolve. Nothing wrong with relationships that are based on passion but I dont feel that with Rand and Elayne.

 

Egwene and Gawyn I think are my least fav couple, just the way she treats him. I mean.. he doesn´t even like it lol.

Perrin/Faile... I thought I hated that relationship but I´ve come to understand that I´m frustrated with it. Perrin should talk with dad Bashere, realise how he should deal with Faile and be done with it.

[randsc]

God, can you imagine having that conversation with your daughter's husband/wife's father (depending on which side you're on; either would be awkward as hell)?

 

"Bashere, help me out. How do I keep your daughter happy?"

 

"Well Aybara, you need to keep in mind that forced submission gets her going. And don't forget to rip her clothes every so often."

 

Yick. Perrin needs to talk to Elyas again.

[Puny]

Lol randsc. I was thinking something more subtle. Hmm... why would Elyas know? Have I forgotten or missed something?

 

He is married to a Saldaean wife, sooner or later he has to figure it out. I mean... read a book about Saldaean life or something. Or Faile should stop moping around and tell him. Be a falcon already! Lol.

 

About Gawyn and Egwene. I guess if you see it as him following his inlearned ability to obey women it makes sense, but he needs to have a little backbone. If he is to protect his sister he can´t go around scraping with his foot and making bows all day, when it´s necessary he needs to put his foot down, which he never does.

 

I just have to mention Galad/Berelain. Even though they will have gorgeous children... I kinda in secret always voted for Berelain and Rhuarc...lol.

[capuga]

Lol randsc. I was thinking something more subtle. Hmm... why would Elyas know? Have I forgotten or missed something?

 

Elyas lived with a Saldean for awhile. He's the one that was giving Perrin advice on how to handle Faile right around the time that Faile started thinking to herself that her husband was finely acting like he should.

[Puny]

Lol randsc. I was thinking something more subtle. Hmm... why would Elyas know? Have I forgotten or missed something?

 

Elyas lived with a Saldean for awhile. He's the one that was giving Perrin advice on how to handle Faile right around the time that Faile started thinking to herself that her husband was finely acting like he should.

 

Oh I forgot about that. And it seems Perrin forgot about Elyas advice too. I wonder what RJ´s least fav couple would have been, if an author can answer questions like that.

The plot with Rand and the 3 ladies I don´t think is too bad, and unlike many I think, I don´t find it all that unrealistic. I just wish he would have handled it better.

[TheDecline01]

I aint gonna be original, but to me RJ simply just couldn't write good love relationships. And far from good for the most part. While they act like old wise people in times of war and plots, the main characters seem ridiculously lousy coming to love relationships. Lousy and incredibly childish. I guess what they have is what I had when I was 8-10...

 

Well, the top of this in my mind, is the gloomy Rand-Elayne couple which I simply can't understand. "Oh, she beautiful, me see her once but me love her" and "Oh, I think I should fall in love with him because... I must". Naaaah, it's way too far-stretched. Even more than the others.

After that, Egwene-Gawyn are good contenders. We also have a totally impossible love from Egwene to Gawyn for the sake of it.

 

Fortunately, I like the Nyneave-Lan relationship, more adult, even though I still think that the way it happened is kinda "free". But hey, love's a messy thing, so I can buy this one. And Mat-Tuon's good too, but for the irony in here, and the fact that they're a perfect match to me.

 

Well, RJ'd rather have those love stories written by his wife, men just can't write credible love stories, but RJ sucked at it (IMHO).