Egwene ugh

[Durinax]

for 1) an amyrlin ordered penance isnt something that can be ignored (the drugs and beatings), but everyone listened to her when she spoke particularily AS and accepted. Also now I can only think of two people who even sort of stand up against her and them are Romanda and Lelaine. This cannot really be summed up in a single quote her whole salidar -> amyrlin arc seems to go too smoothly with a continuous growth in power with barely no struggle, it is just a general feeling I get from her

2) she abandons the TR apprenticeship with no gain, she ends up abandoning the aiel apprenticeship (only gaining the thought that you must embrace pain)

3 + 6) read when nyn comes to talk to her and takes rands side, or when she hears word of the AS swearing to rand

4) she assumes that rand mat and perrin know almost nothing and repeatedly attempts to help them (often getting herself in trouble, admittedly this is in the earlier part of the books)

5) when nyn nearly reveals that egwene has been coming into tar regularily in front of the WO's egwene finds her after and tortures her with some constructs, then nyns big test

7) already provided, she continuously thinks of how she needs to control rand and then tells off elaida for thinking they can control him

and she criticizes elaida for thinking of having a oath to obey the amyrlin, when she has a group of people she blackmailed and coerced into swearing to follow her

[SuperFade]

Sometimes I think you guys are just reading different books than I am. Egwene is criticized in the text all the time, not least by our three ta'veren boys.

 

A few sentences of indistinct grumbling is not the same as a proper calling out followed by some soul-searching introspection. The ta'veren's few moments of annoyance towards Egwene never reach her.

 

That's the problem. Rand, Mat and Perrin have dozens of followers just waiting for an opportunity to lambast their decisions. On the other hand, those who really should be doing the same for Egwene lose a hundred points of their IQ whenever she arrives and line up to lick her shoes.

[David Selig]

Speaking of "embracing the pain", I for one found it ridiculous that after one beating and a few conversations with Avi Egwene was suddenly an expert on it. I know she's a really swift learner, but come on, this is really stretching it...

 

Anyway, I don't like her for many reasons. Mostly her blatant hypocrisy and the way she treats her friends. She's also the only one of the main characters who have repeatedly and intentionally broken her promises when she visited TAR without supervision. Given the importance that keeping your word has in Randland, I think that's important sign of her character. She's so ambitious she'd do almost anything to get ahead, including lying, breaking promises, blackmail, physically abusing friends to cover up her lies, etc.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

for 1) an amyrlin ordered penance isnt something that can be ignored (the drugs and beatings), but everyone listened to her when she spoke particularily AS and accepted. Also now I can only think of two people who even sort of stand up against her and them are Romanda and Lelaine. This cannot really be summed up in a single quote her whole salidar -> amyrlin arc seems to go too smoothly with a continuous growth in power with barely no struggle, it is just a general feeling I get from her

2) she abandons the TR apprenticeship with no gain, she ends up abandoning the aiel apprenticeship (only gaining the thought that you must embrace pain)

3 + 6) read when nyn comes to talk to her and takes rands side, or when she hears word of the AS swearing to rand

4) she assumes that rand mat and perrin know almost nothing and repeatedly attempts to help them (often getting herself in trouble, admittedly this is in the earlier part of the books)

5) when nyn nearly reveals that egwene has been coming into tar regularily in front of the WO's egwene finds her after and tortures her with some constructs, then nyns big test

7) already provided, she continuously thinks of how she needs to control rand and then tells off elaida for thinking they can control him

and she criticizes elaida for thinking of having a oath to obey the amyrlin, when she has a group of people she blackmailed and coerced into swearing to follow her

 

A few things:

 

1) That respect was given to her after the reunion of the rival Towers because she freaking earned it by mending both halves into a single solid whole. Before that, respect was given to her by some of the younger sitters in the rebel hall for the political manuverings she made in outsmarting Romanda and Lelaine. Before THAT, she didn't have much respect at all, and Romanda and Lelaine didn't 'stand up' to her so much as try to bully her. Even now, as of ToM, the Red Ajah and the Green Ajah Sitters give her problems, as do Romanda and Lelaine by trying to undermine her authority. Sisters give her respect. Well, she earned it by cleansing them of the Shadow, accepting her punishments as a matter of course, defending the Tower against the Seanchan with mostly HALF-TRAINED NOVICES and a few sisters she picked up here and there, and there are one or two other examples. But I fail to see how she has not earned the respect she is given by most sisters. And she still isn't treated like a perfect little princess, especially since you said already that Romanda and Lelaine 'stand up' to her, with directly contradicts your arguments. I'm sorry, your argument is flawed.

 

3+6) I fail to see how your Aes Sedai argument is relevant in any way to countering the argument. In fact, it does amplify it, as Rand's Ta'vernism REALLY made those Aes Sedai swear fealty. It is not really unfeasible or in fact that unreasonable therefore to think that Nynaeve might have been influenced by Rand's Ta'vernism if other Aes Sedai have been.

 

5) She didn't torture Nynaeve. Sure, Egwene frightened her, but many other people would do the same if others were about to let slip something that would affect them detrimentally. It wasn't really admirable of Egwene, but torture is way out of the scale compared to what Egwene did. I don't even think Nynaeve was hurt physically in any way, although she was scared. As for Nynaeve's AS test, Egwene didn't have much of a choice. As the other testers made the test an awful experience, Egwene would have to do the same or the others would accuse her of being biased in favour of her friend, and she could not do that, not while she was the Amrylin. Come on, the Amrylin is scrutinized much more than a normal AS due to the Amrylin being in a leadership position, she can't seem to favour someone by making her part of the test more lenient than other parts set by other 'supposedly' impartial people...

 

7) Elaida wanted to control Rand to increase the glory of the White Tower and her personal reputation. Egwene wants to guide Rand because she thinks she knows best. Obviously Egwene's thinking is as misguided in its own way as Elaida, but you have to admit that Egwene doesn't want to do it because she wants personal fame and glory, but rather she thinks she knows what's best for the world (although I think she doesn't). Elaida wanted to make the Sisters swear oaths to obey her to make the Amrylin an absolute position (which it is not). Egwene however, made those sisters swear fealty to her because she wanted to ensure that there would be at least a few sisters who would NOT try to undermine her authority. There is a difference in motives.

[SuperFade]

5) She didn't torture Nynaeve. Sure, Egwene frightened her, but many other people would do the same if others were about to let slip something that would affect them detrimentally. It wasn't really admirable of Egwene, but torture is way out of the scale compared to what Egwene did. I don't even think Nynaeve was hurt physically in any way, although she was scared. As for Nynaeve's AS test, Egwene didn't have much of a choice. As the other testers made the test an awful experience, Egwene would have to do the same or the others would accuse her of being biased in favour of her friend, and she could not do that, not while she was the Amrylin. Come on, the Amrylin is scrutinized much more than a normal AS due to the Amrylin being in a leadership position, she can't seem to favour someone by making her part of the test more lenient than other parts set by other 'supposedly' impartial people...

 

I'm sorry, summoning street toughs and then having almost go through with violently raping Nynaeve isn't torture now? So if someone were about to say something inconvenient to you, you would respond with simulated attempted rape? And Nynaeve is supposed to be someone that Egwene respects and admires? And to top it all of, she later feels PROUD of herself that she's finally 'put Nynaeve in her place'. It was a truly disgusting moment of torture, made worse by the fact that Egwene used it to cover up her own transgressions.

 

As for the Aes Sedai test, intervening when the testers actually are resorting to torture and attempting to make Nynaeve fail with all their might isn't favouritism, it's common damn sense. The test was clearly not impartial and became excessively unfair as time went on. Egwene had a perfectly good reason to stop the test and yet continued on the off chance that stopping it would negatively impact upon her.

[David Selig]

She didn't torture Nynaeve. Sure, Egwene frightened her, but many other people would do the same if others were about to let slip something that would affect them detrimentally

Of course there are many such people, but I consider them terrible friends. Why not just ask Nynaeve to keep the secret and explain her reasons? But that would've meant losing face and the moral high ground and Egwene preferred to scare Nynaeve out of her mind instead to cover up her lie. I am glad I don't have such "friends". And Nynaeve was left with a scar from the nails of one of the brutes, so she was hurt physically too, though calling it torture is excessive.

 

Egwene wants to guide Rand because she thinks she knows best. Obviously Egwene's thinking is as misguided in its own way as Elaida, but you have to admit that Egwene doesn't want to do it because she wants personal fame and glory, but rather she thinks she knows what's best for the world (although I think she doesn't)

There's a perfect saying for this - "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

 

And what exactly are her reasons for being so absolutely sure she knows better than Rand about almost anything? Apart from the fact that he's a man, of course, and thus mostly clueless by default, in her view.

[csarmi]

I'm sorry, summoning street toughs and then having almost go through with violently raping Nynaeve isn't torture now? So if someone were about to say something inconvenient to you, you would respond with simulated attempted rape? And Nynaeve is supposed to be someone that Egwene respects and admires? And to top it all of, she later feels PROUD of herself that she's finally 'put Nynaeve in her place'. It was a truly disgusting moment of torture, made worse by the fact that Egwene used it to cover up her own transgressions.

 

It was high time Nynaeve learned how dangerous that place was.

 

As for the Aes Sedai test, intervening when the testers actually are resorting to torture and attempting to make Nynaeve fail with all their might isn't favouritism, it's common damn sense. The test was clearly not impartial and became excessively unfair as time went on. Egwene had a perfectly good reason to stop the test and yet continued on the off chance that stopping it would negatively impact upon her.

 

You assume that the test can be stopped. While it may be possible, I don't think the AS know that.

[SuperFade]

It was high time Nynaeve learned how dangerous that place was.

 

Except that wasn't the reason she did it at all. And even that explanation is hypocritical, since Egwene also continued to visit the world of dreams despite being a mere aprentice.

 

 

You assume that the test can be stopped. While it may be possible, I don't think the AS know that.

 

AS know far less than they should about ter'angreal, I'll agree. However, this is the sort of argument that will flounder due to us not knowing enough about the mechanics of the test, so I'll just say that if it was indeed possible to stop then Egwene should have done so.

[Seeker Matt]

... Powerful women who challenge male authority figures always tend to draw a crowd of naysayers. That's just life, I guess. ...

 

Do you have any evidence whatsoever for such a statement or do you often make sweeping statements about those who don't share your opinions in an attempt to silence them?

 

For how many of the males who have posted that they dislike Egwene do you have any evidence that they are misogynists in any way?

 

What about all those females that dislike Egwene?

[malpka]

"It was high time Nynaeve learned how dangerous that place was." - so she punish her for doing the same thing she was doing herself, and after promising she wont.

Plus she needlesly humiliated her "for lying" at the end of meeting (part with giving her ramroot, I think it was "ramroot" but that translating it back from polish and memory so it is probably wrong, with really poor excuse to cover fact that it was simply because Nynaeve did it to her before.

As about Egwene during the book at first I really disliked her , she seemed for me as this pupil which is always going to tell on you if you do something wrong, and not l because she think it is right (like Galad ), only because it will give her some feel of power( like I said she seemed that way for me, not saying she is like that)

It was after episod with Nynaeve when I started hate her. (that was when sheleft Elayne a bit behind)

Besides she seems to be craving for power since the begining, folowing Nynaeve - Wisdom is good, switching to Morainee (in blink of an eye really)AS is better

Not commiting to any one but herself (WT well yeah but she is WT now)

Arrogant, all knowing, hypocritic.

Also I dont Belive she embraced Aiel ways at all , she just did what she had to do to learn from them (beside - she met her toh, sure as soon as she didn't need them anymore)

She still plan to bond all chanelers with WT.

She is AS and like all of them ( except Siuan, Moraine, Anan, Nynaeve) strip her from superpowers and she is no one. ( One would really like Aviendha vision come true- "WT fall"

pitty Aiel, but well collteral damage for greater good)

The worst of all - she got everything given on a silver plate (no sacrifices or any drawbacks).

Sea Folks giving away bargain for one broken ter'angreal.

 

Yep really hate her, with each rereading more

 

 

PS sorry for my english

[Gathering Storman Norman]

 

 

You assume that the test can be stopped. While it may be possible, I don't think the AS know that.

 

AS know far less than they should about ter'angreal, I'll agree. However, this is the sort of argument that will flounder due to us not knowing enough about the mechanics of the test, so I'll just say that if it was indeed possible to stop then Egwene should have done so.

 

One thing I question is if Egwene even new anything out of the ordinary was going on during the test. It was the first time she had ever been a part of the testing. Did she know the other AS were pushing the test harder than normal. For asll she new, everything was going the same way every test went.

 

I'm not even sure that she could see what was happening during the test. Did she really know how dangerous it was? Could she see how much damage out was doing?

 

Personally I don't think she knew the extent of how rough the AS were being.

 

For asll of you that think Egwene treats her friends bad think back to when you were a teenager and remember some of the awful stuff you did to you friends. Teenagers treat their friends like garbage.

 

I have never had a problem with how Egwene years her friends and she certainly treats Gawyn too good.

[Zentari]

For asll of you that think Egwene treats her friends bad think back to when you were a teenager and remember some of the awful stuff you did to you friends. Teenagers treat their friends like garbage.

Perhaps you did so , not me, so don't throw stuff like this implying they are the undeniable truth.

 

Also, I really love ANY argument that goes along the lines of "they did too".How does accepting your claims change the way Egg treated her friends in any way ? It doesn't.

I have never had a problem with how Egwene years her friends and she certainly treats Gawyn too good.

Please tell me that my sarcasm detector needs new batteries....

[SuperFade]

One thing I question is if Egwene even new anything out of the ordinary was going on during the test. It was the first time she had ever been a part of the testing. Did she know the other AS were pushing the test harder than normal. For asll she new, everything was going the same way every test went.

 

As the Amyrlin, it's natural to assume that she had been told beforehand just what the test entailed. Seeing Nyneave being repeatedly savaged by the jealous Aes Sedai running the test should have been a clear warning sign that something was up.

 

I'm not even sure that she could see what was happening during the test. Did she really know how dangerous it was? Could she see how much damage out was doing?

 

It's pretty clear that Egwene knew exactly what was going on with the entire test. Saerin could see what Rubinde was doing, and comments on her vengefulness, which implies that all the participants could see what Nyneave was going through.

 

Personally I don't think she knew the extent of how rough the AS were being.

 

See above. Egwene knew what was going on and did nothing.

 

For asll of you that think Egwene treats her friends bad think back to when you were a teenager and remember some of the awful stuff you did to you friends. Teenagers treat their friends like garbage.

 

I have never had a problem with how Egwene years her friends and she certainly treats Gawyn too good.

 

Firstly, that's a sweeping generalisation that reeks of stereotyping. Secondly, I'm pretty sure most people don't use the threat of rape to keep their 'friends' in line.

[Mr Ares]

Is have to disagree with Mr. Ares, and agree with Dreka Mort. Gene is not that heroic as she is petty. In TEOTW, when Egwene discovers Rand and the others leaving the Two Rivwrs. She doesn't even know she can channel yet, let alone that she could be the Amyrlin, she's only going so as not to be left out and bored alone in Emonds Field. It isn't till they have been on the road a while that she even learns of her ability to channel, so she isn't just purposefully putting herself in a bad situation, she's struggling to try to keep up with Rand in terms of power and political power. That's why she refuses to listen to Rand when he says he needs to shatter the seals. She really believes that she is smarter and wiser as an aes sedai and Amyrlin.

That she didn't know she was going to be Amyrlin or even AS when she left the TR isn't really relevant, aand her pettiness says nothing about her heroism. She wasn't struggling to keep up with Rand in terms of power or political power at any stage, and even if she was it's hardly relevant. She has put herself in dangerous situations that she didn't have to, and has done so knowingly. Whatever her reasons for doing so, that requires courage.

 

To say something a little different to the usual run of Egwene threads, I would just like to point out that Egwene is arguably more heroic than Rand. Allow me to explain: Rand was forced into a bad situation. So was Mat, so was Perrin. They are ta'veren, the Pattern bends around them. They are forced by the Wheel to take on specific roles, which they can't really run from. They didn't choose them. As was pointed out in TGS, they might not have control over what they do, but they do over why. They are, therefore, simply constrained to make the best of a bad situation. Egwene, on the other hand, chose to become AS, chose to study with the Aiel, chose not to simply be a puppet of the Hall and to assert herself. She is, therefore, someone who chose to put herself into a bad situation. Rand had to be forced into his role, Egwene didn't. To put it another way, which would you consider to be more heroic: someone who is trapped in a burning building and rescues someone they stumble across on their way out, or someone who enters a burning building deliberately, and with the intention of saving someone? Rand is the former, Egwene is the latter.

Point taken, but she was forced to be Amyrlin. I notice you sort of glossed over that and moved on to her choice to make the best of it.

A fair point - Egwene, like all the characters, has had her hand forced at times, and has had to make the best of a bad situation. Rand, Mat and Perrin have all had sufficient freedom of action at points to have a choice in what they do, not merely why. That Egwene's path is one she has chosen while Rand's is one he has been forced down is more a general tendency than an absolute.

 

 

Plus she needlesly humiliated her "for lying" at the end of meeting (part with giving her ramroot, I think it was "ramroot" but that translating it back from polish and memory so it is probably wrong, with really poor excuse to cover fact that it was simply because Nynaeve did it to her before.

That was more a case of pointing out Nynaeve's own hypocrisy.

(beside - she met her toh, sure as soon as she didn't need them anymore)

Just because she had no more immediate need for them, doesn't mean she would never need them again. She had no need to reveal that she had toh to them. You might argue that she later abandoned Aiel ways, but she followed them at least for the time she was with hem, and that includes meeting her toh.

She still plan to bond all chanelers with WT.

So?

[csarmi]

It was high time Nynaeve learned how dangerous that place was.

 

Except that wasn't the reason she did it at all. And even that explanation is hypocritical, since Egwene also continued to visit the world of dreams despite being a mere aprentice.

 

 

Yup, but that doesn't mean it wasn't RIGHT. She actually had every right, and also, this was the way she learned (from the Wise Ones) how things like this should be handled.

Hypocritical? No, not at all. The Wise Ones were also teaching her to 'do what you must, but pay the price for it'. She's doing just that. Was it nice what she was doing? No. But very natural, under the circumstances. Also, she saved Nynaeve's life, in all likelyhood.

 

 

You assume that the test can be stopped. While it may be possible, I don't think the AS know that.

 

AS know far less than they should about ter'angreal, I'll agree. However, this is the sort of argument that will flounder due to us not knowing enough about the mechanics of the test, so I'll just say that if it was indeed possible to stop then Egwene should have done so.

 

And I say she shouldn't have. She owed Nynaeve that and she trusted her skill.

[SuperFade]

Yup, but that doesn't mean it wasn't RIGHT. She actually had every right, and also, this was the way she learned (from the Wise Ones) how things like this should be handled.

Hypocritical? No, not at all. The Wise Ones were also teaching her to 'do what you must, but pay the price for it'. She's doing just that. Was it nice what she was doing? No. But very natural, under the circumstances. Also, she saved Nynaeve's life, in all likelyhood.

 

Like I said before, that was not the reason for her act of torture. It was not to teach Nyneave the dangers of the World of Dreams, it was to cover up her own lies that she was allowed to be there. Egwene is not a Wise One, she is an apprentice who can still barely tie her own shoes in the World of Dreams. Amys punished Egwene because she was in the role of an apprentice who consciously chose to learn, then disobeyed a direct order to stay away. Egwene and Nyneave are supposed to be friends, and do not have nearly the same relationship.

 

She had no authority to do what she did. More experience in the WOD would allow her to criticise Nyneave, perhaps even chastise her, but to summon up multiple drunken rapists in an attempt to traumatise her into not questioning her own right to be there crosses the line more times than can be counted. And it certainly was hypocrisy for her to be there. Certainly, Egwene paid for her transgressions later on, but that has no bearing on her treatment of Nyneave. And how exactly did she save Nyneave's life? By making her more careful? I'm pretty sure there are a myriad of other, less traumatic ways she could have done so.

 

And I say she shouldn't have. She owed Nynaeve that and she trusted her skill.

 

It's not a matter of skill. It's a matter of stopping a clearly biased and weighted test for one of the most prestigious positions in Randland. As Amyrlin Egwene cannot show favourites, but the opposite is also true in that she should not have allowed such flagrant abuse. The testers wanted Nyneave to fail at any cost, and that alone should be reason enough to put a stop to it.

[David Selig]

Yup, but that doesn't mean it wasn't RIGHT. She actually had every right, and also, this was the way she learned (from the Wise Ones) how things like this should be handled.

Hypocritical? No, not at all. The Wise Ones were also teaching her to 'do what you must, but pay the price for it'. She's doing just that. Was it nice what she was doing? No. But very natural, under the circumstances. Also, she saved Nynaeve's life, in all likelyhood.

So it's not hypocritical to warn Nynaeve against the danger of TAR in the most brutal way while at the same time completely ignoring the warnings her own teachers gave her about the exact same thing? I'd say this is textbook hypocrisy.

 

It's crystal clear that teaching Nynaeve about the danger of TAR wasn't Egwene's motivation here. She knew very well how stubborn Nynaeve was and that it wouldn't work. After all, it certainly didn't work on Egwene when the WO did it to her. And predictably, two weeks later Nynaeve was back in TAR listening on the Forsaken's meetings.

 

For asll of you that think Egwene treats her friends bad think back to when you were a teenager and remember some of the awful stuff you did to you friends. Teenagers treat their friends like garbage.

That settles it then. She's a teenager so she's entitled to treat her friends like garbage. How dare we critisize her for that.

[Smittyphi]

She had no authority to do what she did. More experience in the WOD would allow her to criticise Nyneave, perhaps even chastise her, but to summon up multiple drunken rapists in an attempt to traumatise her into not questioning her own right to be there crosses the line more times than can be counted. And it certainly was hypocrisy for her to be there. Certainly, Egwene paid for her transgressions later on, but that has no bearing on her treatment of Nyneave. And how exactly did she save Nyneave's life? By making her more careful? I'm pretty sure there are a myriad of other, less traumatic ways she could have done so.

 

I do like Egwene and Nynaeve has a very forceful personality and needs drastic measures to get things across to her. Would something else have worked? Possibly, but what would you have done? It required a full knowledge that she was going to die to break her block.

[SuperFade]

I do like Egwene and Nynaeve has a very forceful personality and needs drastic measures to get things across to her. Would something else have worked? Possibly, but what would you have done? It required a full knowledge that she was going to die to break her block.

 

Wait, so Egwene was breaking Nyneave's block now? No, no way. Egwene HERSELF admits that she only did it to stop Nyneave questioning her right to be there. Nyneave is forceful but has always been willing to listen to reason in the end when it truly mattered. Having known her for so long, there's no way Egwene would not know how to explain something to Nyneave in such a way as to make her understand the dangers of the WOD. The fact that she chose brutal torture instead shows that this was not the case at all.

[Smittyphi]

Wait, so Egwene was breaking Nyneave's block now? No, no way.

 

I never said that. I was commenting on how stubborn Nyn can be and sometimes required tramatic experiences to get something through to her.

 

Nyneave is forceful but has always been willing to listen to reason in the end when it truly mattered.

 

Kind of like all those times in TEotW

She wouldn't listen to Moiraine and talked about getting the TR folks back to the TR no matter what

 

Having known her for so long, there's no way Egwene would not know how to explain something to Nyneave in such a way as to make her understand the dangers of the WOD. The fact that she chose brutal torture instead shows that this was not the case at all.

 

I agree, in a sense. Nynaeve needed a powerful reminder but the rape part, I do agree, was unneccesary, despite my previous post. We can only speculate on what else may have gotten through to Nynaeve.

[OptimusPrime]

Powerful women who challenge male authority figures always tend to draw a crowd of naysayers. That's just life, I guess.

 

LOL. Such garbage... I LOVED Cadsuane when she first arrived, BECAUSE she constantly challenged Rands authority. I loved it because of how hard Rand found it to deal with. The thing is, though, Cadsuane had earned the right to think that of herself. What exactly has Egwene done by herself? Not a great deal. She wouldnt be where she is now if other Aes Sedai didnt gamble on her being a puppet. She was raised for crap reasons, didnt deserve the promotion, and I can only hope if someone as awesome as Cadsuane could fall so far, then Egwene... shes never felt like Amyrlin material. Never. It feels like the books tried to force us to acknowledge some non-existent cache of awesomeness she had up her sleeve. But she has no awesomeness, and no sleeves to hide it in.

 

Egwene is an amalgamation of Rand and Aviendha without any of the good stuff.

[SuperFade]

Kind of like all those times in TEotW

She wouldn't listen to Moiraine and talked about getting the TR folks back to the TR no matter what

 

That was much earlier on when she had no idea of the destiny in store for the three ta'veren. It's not unreasonable when you think about it; a strange woman comes and, from your perspective, kidnaps people you have known since birth. In such circumstances it would be very odd not to try and rescue them.

 

Nyneave has shown that she can accept advice numerous times, despite the plentiful braid-tugging. She did it when traveling incognito with Elayne and Valan Luca's menagerie, as well as a few instances in Tanchico when she wasn't being a colossal bitch to everyone.

 

I just can't accept that attempted rape, even if it was simulated, was an acceptible punishment, or that Egwene was in a position to administer said 'punishment' in the first place. But this is taking over the topic right now, so it's the last I'll say on the matter.

[David Selig]

I'd just quote from her own thoughts what Egwene's goal was during the meeting with Nynaeve in TAR when she summoned the brutes to abuse her "friend":

 

TFOH, Ch.15

 

She had been so afraid that Nynaeve would learn that she certainly did not have the Wise Ones’ permission to jaunt about in the World of Dreams alone, so sure that the flush of embarrassment had given her away, that all she could think of was keeping Nynaeve from speaking, keeping her from winkling out the truth. And she had been so sure that Nynaeve would find out anyway—the woman was quite capable of turning her in and saying it was for her own good—that all she could do was talk, try to keep the focus on whatever Nynaeve was doing wrong.

 

Note that the summoning of the two brutes happened right after Nynaeve started questioning Egwene on whether the Wise Ones have allowed Egwene to come on her own in TAR. Egwene wanted to distract Nynaeve without telling an outright lie, so she gave that horribly hypocritical lecture on the danger of TAR and summoned the two brutes. She wanted to cover up her lies to the WO, not to teach Nynaeve about the dangers of TAR.

[Ace Sedai]

I don't feel the need to justify my Egwene hate.

She's a pompous culture vulture with no imminent redemption in sight{unlike Nynaveve,who has horrible but ended being one of my fav characters}.

I will lead the tower and all the world to salvation while I snub everyone and you will love me for it!

Worst Character in all the WOT series.

*realizes I tried to justify my hate*

[Zentari]

Wait, so Egwene was breaking Nyneave's block now? No, no way.

 

I never said that. I was commenting on how stubborn Nyn can be and sometimes required tramatic experiences to get something through to her.

 

Nyneave is forceful but has always been willing to listen to reason in the end when it truly mattered.

 

Kind of like all those times in TEotW

She wouldn't listen to Moiraine and talked about getting the TR folks back to the TR no matter what

 

Having known her for so long, there's no way Egwene would not know how to explain something to Nyneave in such a way as to make her understand the dangers of the WOD. The fact that she chose brutal torture instead shows that this was not the case at all.

 

I agree, in a sense. Nynaeve needed a powerful reminder but the rape part, I do agree, was unneccesary, despite my previous post. We can only speculate on what else may have gotten through to Nynaeve.

She did it to cover herself and thus there was no need to get through to Nynaeve making your arguments moot.

Unless you are also saying that it's ok to bully others , just to get your way (in this case, the "noble" cause was for Egg to avoid a spanking).