Egwene ugh

[Thanatos]

Yet again, another person that dislikes Egwene. Notice the word dislike, not hate.

 

I disliked her in the first 3 books, then when she went to the Aiel, I began to like her. She was decent in the Salidar arc.

 

What really made me like Egwene was KoD and tGS. Her character grew so much, and actually made me have a grudging respect for her.

 

That said, ToM Egwene was awful. Too bad too, because she was quickly catching up to Nyn before ToM.

 

Just my thoughts.

[SethBaker]

So in my opinion Egwene's whole story is made up of her trying to make herself as important as the three tavern already are. Plus I think that of Rand,Mat, and Perrin didn't need her she would still be in the two rivers, or maybe with Bo and the other two rivers girls. So basically she' caught in a big taveren web

 

That's ridiculous. She trained to be an Aes Sedai because she was able to, not to make her as important as the ta'veren. She certainly didn't go to the Aiel in order to become important - she went because they told her that she should. Then she went back to Salidar because she was summoned. She didn't ask them to make her Amyrlin, but she accepted it (she had to). She simply decided to make the best of it by not being a puppet.

 

I can see why people might not like her (though I disagree), but I can't understand the argument that she's trying to make herself important to keep up with Mat, Perrin and Rand.

[Elan Tedronai]

If Egwene was a real woman i would marry her in an instant

[Zhipp]

Am I the only one who hated Egwene's KOD/TGS arc? A lot of the events in those chapters seemed completely illogical(White asking Eg for advice about her aging warder? Wut?), and she seemed quite out of character in those books. Where in the blazes did her absurd love for the tower come from? Not to mention that embracing the pain nonsense, and how easily she threw down her panic when the Seanchan attacked! How am I supposed to relate to a character who can overcome pain and fear so easily? It's like she's not even human anymore. Speaking of the Seanchan attack, I found the scene where she ran into the head of the Green Ajah absolutely ridiculous! Really? REALLY? They're in the middle of a battle for their very survival, and she wants this witch Aes Sedai(who had NOTHING to do with her raising, btw) to call her mother? At a time like this? I'm sorry but that's completely insane, even for Egwene.

 

It was a real struggle getting through those chapters, which sucks because there were so many of them. Every single time there was an Egwene/Suian/Tower chapter I got this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. It was torture, and I'm glad it's finally over.

[Feral]

Couldn't stand her at any point through the series.

[Elan Tedronai]

Am I the only one who hated Egwene's KOD/TGS arc? A lot of the events in those chapters seemed completely illogical(White asking Eg for advice about her aging warder? Wut?), and she seemed quite out of character in those books. Where in the blazes did her absurd love for the tower come from? Not to mention that embracing the pain nonsense, and how easily she threw down her panic when the Seanchan attacked! How am I supposed to relate to a character who can overcome pain and fear so easily? It's like she's not even human anymore. Speaking of the Seanchan attack, I found the scene where she ran into the head of the Green Ajah absolutely ridiculous! Really? REALLY? They're in the middle of a battle for their very survival, and she wants this witch Aes Sedai(who had NOTHING to do with her raising, btw) to call her mother? At a time like this? I'm sorry but that's completely insane, even for Egwene.

 

It was a real struggle getting through those chapters, which sucks because there were so many of them. Every single time there was an Egwene/Suian/Tower chapter I got this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. It was torture, and I'm glad it's finally over.

 

 

So basically you cannot handle the awesomeness that is Egwene. Not to worry. You're not alone it seems

[Kadere]

If Egwene was a real woman i would marry her in an instant

 

This.

[MasterAblar]

Am I the only one who hated Egwene's KOD/TGS arc? A lot of the events in those chapters seemed completely illogical(White asking Eg for advice about her aging warder? Wut?), and she seemed quite out of character in those books. Where in the blazes did her absurd love for the tower come from? Not to mention that embracing the pain nonsense, and how easily she threw down her panic when the Seanchan attacked! How am I supposed to relate to a character who can overcome pain and fear so easily? It's like she's not even human anymore. Speaking of the Seanchan attack, I found the scene where she ran into the head of the Green Ajah absolutely ridiculous! Really? REALLY? They're in the middle of a battle for their very survival, and she wants this witch Aes Sedai(who had NOTHING to do with her raising, btw) to call her mother? At a time like this? I'm sorry but that's completely insane, even for Egwene.

 

It was a real struggle getting through those chapters, which sucks because there were so many of them. Every single time there was an Egwene/Suian/Tower chapter I got this sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. It was torture, and I'm glad it's finally over.

 

Well I think she was basically just saying that until the battle was over, she was in command, didn't matter who you were. And considering how pathetically the aes sedai were doing, it was probably a good thing.

[AshaShan]

If Egwene was a real woman i would marry her in an instant

 

Would you swear everlasting obediance to her like Gawyn did? If not then she wouldn't look twice at you.

[Terez]

What I think about Egwene is that she has somehow managed to draw out in many people the strange attitude of personal resentment, as if she were a real person rather than a fictional character. People who criticize her seldom talk about how they relate or do not relate to her; they talk as if she lives in the tower down the track.

This. A thousand times this.

 

To say something a little different to the usual run of Egwene threads, I would just like to point out that Egwene is arguably more heroic than Rand. Allow me to explain: Rand was forced into a bad situation. So was Mat, so was Perrin. They are ta'veren, the Pattern bends around them. They are forced by the Wheel to take on specific roles, which they can't really run from. They didn't choose them. As was pointed out in TGS, they might not have control over what they do, but they do over why. They are, therefore, simply constrained to make the best of a bad situation. Egwene, on the other hand, chose to become AS, chose to study with the Aiel, chose not to simply be a puppet of the Hall and to assert herself. She is, therefore, someone who chose to put herself into a bad situation. Rand had to be forced into his role, Egwene didn't. To put it another way, which would you consider to be more heroic: someone who is trapped in a burning building and rescues someone they stumble across on their way out, or someone who enters a burning building deliberately, and with the intention of saving someone? Rand is the former, Egwene is the latter.

Point taken, but she was forced to be Amyrlin. I notice you sort of glossed over that and moved on to her choice to make the best of it.

[Zhipp]

Well I think she was basically just saying that until the battle was over, she was in command, didn't matter who you were. And considering how pathetically the aes sedai were doing, it was probably a good thing.

Well, she sure chose the most arrogant, and self centered way possible to let that fact be known. Obviously her taking command was a good thing, The Aes Sedai were behaving pathetically and shamefully, which, if I might add, doesn't make much sense. They all supposedly passed the test after all. There's no excuse for a bunch of accepted(and novices..?) to be outperforming them in extreme situations such as this one. More proof that the test is a retarded waste of time, resources, and lives, but I digress.

 

So basically you cannot handle the awesomeness that is Egwene. Not to worry. You're not alone it seems

Why, indeed! Clearly Egwene is a specimen of perfection. Truly, Aes sedai to the core. To be admired, and feared. That must be why I hate her so much! It's not because she treats her friends like goat droppings, or she's a pompous, arrogant, manipulative, pious witch who only shines in the presence of those even more egotistical and retarded than herself. I just don't have the capacity to appreciate her complete, utter awesomeness. Of course.

[pamela]

To say something a little different to the usual run of Egwene threads, I would just like to point out that Egwene is arguably more heroic than Rand. Allow me to explain: Rand was forced into a bad situation. So was Mat, so was Perrin. They are ta'veren, the Pattern bends around them. They are forced by the Wheel to take on specific roles, which they can't really run from. They didn't choose them. As was pointed out in TGS, they might not have control over what they do, but they do over why. They are, therefore, simply constrained to make the best of a bad situation. Egwene, on the other hand, chose to become AS, chose to study with the Aiel, chose not to simply be a puppet of the Hall and to assert herself. She is, therefore, someone who chose to put herself into a bad situation. Rand had to be forced into his role, Egwene didn't. To put it another way, which would you consider to be more heroic: someone who is trapped in a burning building and rescues someone they stumble across on their way out, or someone who enters a burning building deliberately, and with the intention of saving someone? Rand is the former, Egwene is the latter.

Point taken, but she was forced to be Amyrlin. I notice you sort of glossed over that and moved on to her choice to make the best of it.

 

Agree, she was forced.

 

Anyway, I like this brave girl... as long as she keeps away from Rand, Mat and Perrin (even in her thoughts). And it's the same with Elayne. They are really hopeless at male-female relations.

[Suttree]

or she's a pompous, arrogant, manipulative, pious witch who only shines in the presence of those even more egotistical and retarded than herself.

 

Ahh Egwene threads, they just bring out the best in everyone don't they?

 

What I think about Egwene is that she has somehow managed to draw out in many people the strange attitude of personal resentment, as if she were a real person rather than a fictional character.

 

Great call Emu, I have always found this quite remarkable.

[Dakota]

Part of what I distrust about Egwyne, as others have mentioned in other threads, is that when it comes to where her loyalties lie, she's a chameleon.

 

At the start of the book, she's loyal to Emond's Field and is 'in love' with Rand and is going to marry him.

Soon as she finds out she can be an Aes Sedai, she immediately drops Emond's Field customs, and a bit later on breaks up with Rand, and dives headlong into doing everything the Aes Sedai way because that's who she wants to be.

Then when she's with the Aiel, she dumps all the Aes Sedai customs and jumps into doing everything the Aiel way. Then she shifts back again once she's back with the Aes Sedai.

 

When you look at Nynaeve, you can see with almost everything that she does, that she's still Two Rivers in her heart. She accepts Aes Sedai ways, but still uses her Two Rivers upbringing to temper that. With Egwyne, it seems that not a whole lot carries over when she shifts from one society to the other. This tends to leave her pretty devoid of personality of her own, instead her personality is dictated by whatever organization or society she's currently associating herself with.

[Smittyphi]

Egwene has to walk a fine line here. Powerwise, Nyneave is the perfect fit for the Amyrlin Seat. Unfortunately, if she were Amyrlin, then took the test with the same results and tried to bully the Hall to accepting her way of thinking, we've got ourselves another deposed Amyrlin.

 

Egwene was brought up with the Two Rivers customs but can use her diplomatic skills (which Nynaeve horribly lacks) to change Tar Valon after TG.

 

Then when she's with the Aiel, she dumps all the Aes Sedai customs and jumps into doing everything the Aiel way. Then she shifts back again once she's back with the Aes Sedai.

How do you think she could stand the beatings? Using the Aiel way!

[Terez]

Agreed, she didn't abandon Aiel ways at all. And sometimes Aiel ways can be quite hypocritical anyway - for example, they think spying is dishonorable, but the Wise Ones have no problem spying on people's dreams.

[OptimusPrime]

So in my opinion Egwene's whole story is made up of her trying to make herself as important as the three tavern already are. Plus I think that of Rand,Mat, and Perrin didn't need her she would still be in the two rivers, or maybe with Bo and the other two rivers girls. So basically she' caught in a big taveren web

 

That's ridiculous.

 

Oh come on. Moiraine left behind the one girl that became Amyrlin Seat on the offchance because she herself tagged along.

 

Egwene is only important because the three main characters are male and people would have bitched about it if a female didnt go as far.

[Suttree]

Agreed, she didn't abandon Aiel ways at all. And sometimes Aiel ways can be quite hypocritical anyway - for example, they think spying is dishonorable, but the Wise Ones have no problem spying on people's dreams.

 

Yeah, I have always found it odd that people jump on her for "abandoning" the Aiel ways. She met her toh before she left which shows she has taken to heart/understands Jei'Toh and continues to use many of the things she learned from the Wise Ones...

[Zhipp]

or she's a pompous, arrogant, manipulative, pious witch who only shines in the presence of those even more egotistical and retarded than herself.

 

Ahh Egwene threads, they just bring out the best in everyone don't they?

 

What I think about Egwene is that she has somehow managed to draw out in many people the strange attitude of personal resentment, as if she were a real person rather than a fictional character.

 

Great call Emu, I have always found this quite remarkable.

 

Indeed they do. Strange, how the fact that she isn't real, and no one is actually hurt by my venomous words somehow makes them even more enjoyable to write down. heh

 

Her character flaws have already been discussed to death, anyway. All we have left are insults.

 

Yeah, I have always found it odd that people jump on her for "abandoning" the Aiel ways. She met her toh before she left which shows she has taken to heart/understands Jei'Toh and continues to use many of the things she learned from the Wise Ones...

She abandoned the Aiel ways after she accepted he punishment. I believe those Aiel virtues left her at some point during her journey through T'A'R.

[Elan Tedronai]

What I think about Egwene is that she has somehow managed to draw out in many people the strange attitude of personal resentment, as if she were a real person rather than a fictional character. People who criticize her seldom talk about how they relate or do not relate to her; they talk as if she lives in the tower down the track.

 

 

My love for egwene can only be surpassed at seeing the sheer hatred for her amongst our brethren here. I love it! I shall continue to drink in the bitter tears at her continued ascension as the greatest amyrlin ever. Taking names and being a force to be reckoned with.

 

And when the ashaman join up with the aes sedai once the last battle is over she will be the most powerful female ruler in randland. Not nynaeve. not cadsuane. not sorilea. not amys. not moraine. not tuon. not elayne. not faile. But Egwene al Vere. I can hardly wait!

[Sleeper]

What I think about Egwene is that she has somehow managed to draw out in many people the strange attitude of personal resentment, as if she were a real person rather than a fictional character. People who criticize her seldom talk about how they relate or do not relate to her; they talk as if she lives in the tower down the track.

 

 

My love for egwene can only be surpassed at seeing the sheer hatred for her amongst our brethren here. I love it! I shall continue to drink in the bitter tears at her continued ascension as the greatest amyrlin ever. Taking names and being a force to be reckoned with.

 

And when the ashaman join up with the aes sedai once the last battle is over she will be the most powerful female ruler in randland. Not nynaeve. not cadsuane. not sorilea. not amys. not moraine. not tuon. not elayne. not faile. But Egwene al Vere. I can hardly wait!

Ummm....

[Terez]

My love for egwene can only be surpassed at seeing the sheer hatred for her amongst our brethren here. I love it! I shall continue to drink in the bitter tears at her continued ascension as the greatest amyrlin ever. Taking names and being a force to be reckoned with.

 

And when the ashaman join up with the aes sedai once the last battle is over she will be the most powerful female ruler in randland. Not nynaeve. not cadsuane. not sorilea. not amys. not moraine. not tuon. not elayne. not faile. But Egwene al Vere. I can hardly wait!

This, I wouldn't be so sure about. Egwene seems set up to play a traitor role, if for no other reason than the Guinevere parallel. However, I think it more likely that she will have something to do with Rand's death (hence the traitor role) and then go on to help save the day anyway (probably something to do with Tel'aran'rhiod).

 

Remember guys...'embrace the pain'. That's Aiel ways. If you want to claim she abandoned them, then make a bloody case for it rather than just spouting off at the mouth about it. This is a debate forum, not high school.

[Suttree]

She abandoned the Aiel ways after she accepted he punishment. I believe those Aiel virtues left her at some point during her journey through T'A'R.

 

If she abandoned them in T'A'R how did she accept all the punishments in the WT? She continuously thinks of all she learned from the Aiel during those scenes. Anyone who expects her to behave exactly like a Wise One after she becomes the Amyrlin is just not being realistic.

[Smittyphi]

Seems to me you have to prove she parted from Aiel ways after TGS as the whole book showed her embrace of Aiel ways on her to becoming the AS. That leaves ToM to show the proof.

[Guest PiotrekS]

If Egwene was a real woman i would marry her in an instant

 

Well, if that could happen I would wish you all happiness in the world. I'd rather be your family lawyer than your psychotherapist though.

 

I think that the whole question of Egwene is a highly subjective matter. There are good reasons to either like her very much or to dislike her with a passion.

 

My personal problem with Egwene is that I find her arc implausble and a little like hagiography or propaganda. So it is a critical attitude towards this particular part of storytelling, rather than some strong antypathy towards Egwene herself. Although probably real world incarnation of Egwene and me wouldn't be the best of friends

 

I think that if the author didn't love Egwene so much and showed her in a more balanced manner, many readers wouldn't feel this need to strongly express their dislike of our perfect Amyrlin. All other main characters are often criticised in the plot, their weaknesses or mistakes are shown and their consequences, sometimes tragic, are strongly emphasised. Egwene is the only main character who is going straight to heaven, with trumpets and cheers from almost everyone.

 

To conclude, Egwene as a person - not a big problem, a matter of personal preference. Egwene, a teenager who have never had a warder and is asked for advice about a warder by an old Aes Sedai - ridiculous writing.