Luc's Role

[Finnssss22]

I doubt Slayer knew who Janduin was when he killed him but yes, this is an interesting point.

 

 

Really? You think him killing Janduin was just coincidence then....sorry, not buying that one, not for a second.

[Mandro]

Well, reading some of these fine point analysis of the foretellings make me think of rand at far madding when he says, "It's not necessary, it's a suggestion." and then explained his position to the borderland nobles.

 

Gitara might have said that his fame would be in the blight, but there are different types of fame. Lindsay, Charlie, Hitler vs Washington, Eisenhauer Jesus. Gitara gave a suggestion based on what she gathered from the pattern.

 

But I voted that Luc had to get the hell away from tigraine. He seems small and petty, his hatred of Perrin seems exaggerated, at least prior to taking the dream arrow.

 

I'm genuinely curiuos as to what the purpose of that twist, other than forcing perrin into accepting the wolf more thoroughly, will be.

[Sharaman]

Luc may have gone through the equivalent of a DO brain-washing. We have no indication that he was a DF before he went to the Blight and was amalgamated with ISam, though the Luc personality is obviously a DF now.

[FarShainMael]

I've wondered why he has such a hatred of his nephew.

Since Slayer has worked for the Dark side, either half might likely hate the Light's champion.

In almost any fiction (that has sides), the "bad" guys nearly always hate the leader of the "good" guys.

 

I realise that, but I'd had the impression that Luc always hated him, even before he turned dark. By that I mean, since Luc went north before Rand was even born, that his hatred was for any potential heirs or heir-consortscompanions to the throne of Andor. Dunno where I got that impression from, though. Prob mistaken.

 

Edited, later. In WH22, Slayer is said to have 'rather looked forward to kiling his nephew'. Not killing the DR, but his nephew. A small thing, true, but it made my mind itch.

[Niniel]

Interesting thoughts from all of you. I totaly agree that Perrin is the one who has to deal with Slayer in the end. The original question about why he was sent to the blight is trickier to answer. It seems to me that most things in wot has a meaning so my guess is that Luc had to meet Isam. Why? Is he (by accident?) going to kill some of the bad guys in the end? The only thing he does is killing people so maybe that is the key? Don´t think he will return to the light. Does my thoughts make any sence? (Guess not since I´m kind of confused my self.)

[Thor]

Ok I'm retarded, just figured out why Slayer is so strong in TAR. It's because he is there in the body and Perrin is only there partially.

[yoniy0]

Ok I'm retarded, just figured out why Slayer is so strong in TAR. It's because he is there in the body and Perrin is only there partially.

See, now, I want to say that's brilliant, but after what you just called yourself, I can't let on that I haven't thought of it years ago.

[DocBean]

I remember thinking Gaidal Cain was killed by Slayer in T'A'R.

At the time Birtgitte said he had been reborn, but my thought was Slayer was hunting the heroes and finally got one.

We now know that's not the case. Brandon said he knows who Gaidal is, and we've seen Min have viewings of Birgitte with a much younger ugly man.

So Gaidal is alive and well.

 

However, we don't know that Slayer hasn't been used to hunt humans in the Dreamworld.

I'm guessing the Heroes are as skilled as he is, so maybe they're safe, and Perrin seems pretty capable of taking care of himself.

So if Slayer is going to be a threat in the Dreamworld, then I'd have to guess that Rand or Egwene are the only characters in real danger.

 

I also imagine Perrin taking out Slayer by becoming both man and Wolf in dreamworld. That will be a nice little trick to use on Slayer.

"Hey Slayer, I'm right here; come at me bro!" Slayer attacks Perrin "Bam! now I'm Young Bull snapping at your Neck from behind! Take that B!tch!"

[herid]

I doubt Slayer knew who Janduin was when he killed him but yes, this is an interesting point.

 

 

Really? You think him killing Janduin was just coincidence then....sorry, not buying that one, not for a second.

I wasn't making a definitive statement. I don't feel strongly one way or the other. But why are you so sure that he knew? how would he know? this was shortly after Rand was born. The shadow didn't know about him until after that.

[Finnssss22]

I doubt Slayer knew who Janduin was when he killed him but yes, this is an interesting point.

 

 

Really? You think him killing Janduin was just coincidence then....sorry, not buying that one, not for a second.

I wasn't making a definitive statement. I don't feel strongly one way or the other. But why are you so sure that he knew? how would he know? this was shortly after Rand was born. The shadow didn't know about him until after that.

 

How does he know that he's Rand's uncle?

It has nothing to do with if he knew or not.

It's about accepting coincidence in a circular time-line. More, it's about accepting coincidence in anything directly related to Mat, Perrin and especially Rand.

I'm unlikely to accept the former and it would be near impossible to accept the later.

Whether he knew exactly who Janduin was when he killed him is irrelevant, maybe the shadow sent him, we don't know yet.

The point is that he had to be there to kill him at that point in time for some reason.

 

 

Either way, I think the best explanation for why he left has already been mentioned in that he couldn't be there, paving the way for Morgase and her line to ascend the Throne.

With Luc still there, it's quite possible Mordrellen doesn't die so quickly after Tigraine goes missing.

Not to mention any offspring of Luc's would have more claim to the Lion Throne than anyone else.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I doubt Slayer knew who Janduin was when he killed him but yes, this is an interesting point.

 

 

Really? You think him killing Janduin was just coincidence then....sorry, not buying that one, not for a second.

I wasn't making a definitive statement. I don't feel strongly one way or the other. But why are you so sure that he knew? how would he know? this was shortly after Rand was born. The shadow didn't know about him until after that.

 

How does he know that he's Rand's uncle?

It has nothing to do with if he knew or not.

It's about accepting coincidence in a circular time-line. More, it's about accepting coincidence in anything directly related to Mat, Perrin and especially Rand.

I'm unlikely to accept the former and it would be near impossible to accept the later.

Whether he knew exactly who Janduin was when he killed him is irrelevant, maybe the shadow sent him, we don't know yet.

The point is that he had to be there to kill him at that point in time for some reason.

 

 

Either way, I think the best explanation for why he left has already been mentioned in that he couldn't be there, paving the way for Morgase and her line to ascend the Throne.

With Luc still there, it's quite possible Mordrellen doesn't die so quickly after Tigraine goes missing.

Not to mention any offspring of Luc's would have more claim to the Lion Throne than anyone else.

 

I think you misunderstood.

 

The poster is not saying that it was a coincidence that Slayer killed Janduin, I believe they are merely stating that it was unlikely Slayer knew who Janduin was, or of his relation to Rand.

[Finnssss22]

I think you misunderstood.

 

The poster is not saying that it was a coincidence that Slayer killed Janduin, I believe they are merely stating that it was unlikely Slayer knew who Janduin was, or of his relation to Rand.

 

No, no, I understood. I was just pointing out exactly what it was I felt strongly about.

However, you do have to ask yourself how Luc knows that Rand is his nephew, that's still not common knowledge by any means.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think you misunderstood.

 

The poster is not saying that it was a coincidence that Slayer killed Janduin, I believe they are merely stating that it was unlikely Slayer knew who Janduin was, or of his relation to Rand.

 

No, no, I understood. I was just pointing out exactly what it was I felt strongly about.

However, you do have to ask yourself how Luc knows that Rand is his nephew, that's still not common knowledge by any means.

 

Ah, fair enough.

 

I believe RJ answered that point about knowing about Rand. His answer was something along the lines of "The Shadow knows many things"

 

So I suppose you can take it how you want.

[herid]

I doubt Slayer knew who Janduin was when he killed him but yes, this is an interesting point.

 

 

Really? You think him killing Janduin was just coincidence then....sorry, not buying that one, not for a second.

I wasn't making a definitive statement. I don't feel strongly one way or the other. But why are you so sure that he knew? how would he know? this was shortly after Rand was born. The shadow didn't know about him until after that.

 

How does he know that he's Rand's uncle?

It has nothing to do with if he knew or not.

It's about accepting coincidence in a circular time-line. More, it's about accepting coincidence in anything directly related to Mat, Perrin and especially Rand.

I'm unlikely to accept the former and it would be near impossible to accept the later.

Whether he knew exactly who Janduin was when he killed him is irrelevant, maybe the shadow sent him, we don't know yet.

The point is that he had to be there to kill him at that point in time for some reason.

 

 

Either way, I think the best explanation for why he left has already been mentioned in that he couldn't be there, paving the way for Morgase and her line to ascend the Throne.

With Luc still there, it's quite possible Mordrellen doesn't die so quickly after Tigraine goes missing.

Not to mention any offspring of Luc's would have more claim to the Lion Throne than anyone else.

ok, I misunderstood you somewhat. Yes, I agree it was not an accident in the sense that the pattern surely forced this event like it did so many other things related to Rand. But I do find it unlikely that Luc knew who Janduin was when he killed him or that he was sent to kill him specifically.

 

BTW, here is the RJ quote that Barid Bel Medar mentioned.

DragonCon 4 September 2005 - Emma reporting

 

Frenzy: How can Slayer know that Rand is his nephew?

Jordan: The Shadow knows a lot about Rand. They know a lot about Perrin and Mat too - once they began to identify possibilities, they went hyper trying to get information because anything might be part of the key to controlling him.

 

I must say it is pretty oblique and it's not clear when or how the shadow found out all those things about Rand.

[Dream]

I voted "to do something good, and becoming Slayer is part of it" although I can't imagine what good Slayer can do.

 

I'm still hoping that Perrin will face Slayer in TAR and separate Luc from Isam with his awesome belief-power, thus providing the Light side with much needed intel.

[yoniy0]

So I suppose you can take it how you want.

Perhaps one of the Aiel present when Rand returned from Rhuidean is a DF. Although that's redundant, seeing as how Asmodean and Lanfear had a month to discover her identity (while the Aiel might not know who Shaiel was, it should be rather obvious to anyone familiar with recent Andoran history).

[Barid Bel Medar]

oh yeah, forgot to post on the OP.

I voted "something good, Slayers a part of it."

 

Although perhaps "something good" isnt the right phrase. "Something Important or vital" fits it better.

 

Myself, I believe that Gitara sent Luc to the Blight to Fulfil a fortelling she had, which the "whispers" said. I tend to think these are correct, although I well know that such things can frequently be false in the WoT.

 

Slayer is too big a part, too unique to be just another simple bad guy to throw at the Light. Good or ill, I believe that Slayer has a uniuqe and vital role to play yet.

 

Also, remember the Dark Prophecy mentioned Isam and Luc. He is special, i cant believe that Luc and Isam were merged for a totally useless purpose.

 

His powers are so different from anything else in the books. How could it be just coincidence? The Pattern has its hand in the creation of Slayer. He has a vital role.

[Byzantine279]

I wonder if part of his TAR strength comes from having two minds and two souls, as long they work together how can one person ever hope to defeat the power of two? We know that one is "dominate" but we don't know what the only mind is doing during the time it isn't in control, perhaps in the real world it would be sleeping, but is it even possible to sleep in TAR?

 

Anyway, I stand by my original assessment that he is probably going to accidentally end up helping the light, if only by showing Perrin how to do something he is going to end up needing to do (exactly as he did with the dreamspike, his subconscious nervous reaction gave it away).

[Aliriel]

I wonder if part of his TAR strength comes from having two minds and two souls, as long they work together how can one person ever hope to defeat the power of two? We know that one is "dominate" but we don't know what the only mind is doing during the time it isn't in control, perhaps in the real world it would be sleeping, but is it even possible to sleep in TAR?

 

Anyway, I stand by my original assessment that he is probably going to accidentally end up helping the light, if only by showing Perrin how to do something he is going to end up needing to do (exactly as he did with the dreamspike, his subconscious nervous reaction gave it away).

 

Is one of the personalities dominant? To me it seems they're both equal and they appear as one or the other depending on the situation/how they feel at the time. We see Slayer in TAR mostly as Isam, except when iirc Egwene is in the TAR Heart of the Stone where she see's a tall, red haired with a touch of grey, older man who looked as if he could be Rand's uncle/father/cousin (can't remember off the top of my head) walk through a doorway. In the real world though, they choose to appear as Luc, but may have appeared as Isam as well I just cant remember.

Just to clarify, I believe both of Slayer's personalities are equal in dominance and just choose how they appear due to the situation/how they feel at the time.

 

Also, Slayer still has something big to do, what that is, I have no idea.

 

A.

[Bluedust9]

Perhaps Luc had to meet Isam to become Slayer to push Perrin into accepting leadership/leading the wolves properly/helping Rand/etc.

 

I like this. Good thought.

[FarShainMael]

@aliriel: She thought he was Rand's 'mean uncle'. Curious that - why didn;t she think 'that't Rand's father'? She knew from Amys who Rand's blood father was, and that he had died in the Blight. (TSR34)

[mb]

that his hatred was for any potential heirs or heir-consortscompanions to the throne of Andor.

heir-consort, that would cover almost all men; exception being ones that are brothers or half-brothers to the daughter-heir. heir, that would cover a considerable amount of women.

Greedy people and/or Darkfriends might have such a hatred.

[FarShainMael]

that his hatred was for any potential heirs or heir-consortscompanions to the throne of Andor.

heir-consort, that would cover almost all men; exception being ones that are brothers or half-brothers to the daughter-heir. heir, that would cover a considerable amount of women.

Greedy people and/or Darkfriends might have such a hatred.

 

I'm having trouble finding the correct label. I want something more general than 'brother' = 'First prince of the Sword'. I'm trying to reference anyone with a blood relationship to the Ruler. Precisely the people you have excluded, in fact. That's why I struck out the word 'consorts' as inaccurate.

[Aliriel]

@aliriel: She thought he was Rand's 'mean uncle'. Curious that - why didn;t she think 'that't Rand's father'? She knew from Amys who Rand's blood father was, and that he had died in the Blight. (TSR34)

 

Ah, so it was uncle. As I said, I just couldn't remember off the top of my head what the family relationship was. And I totally forgot about Amys telling Eggy about Rand's real mommy and daddy.

 

A.

[FarShainMael]

@aliriel: She thought he was Rand's 'mean uncle'. Curious that - why didn;t she think 'that't Rand's father'? She knew from Amys who Rand's blood father was, and that he had died in the Blight. (TSR34)

 

Ah, so it was uncle. As I said, I just couldn't remember off the top of my head what the family relationship was. And I totally forgot about Amys telling Eggy about Rand's really mommy and daddy.

 

A.

 

Have a look at Lambada'a excellent 'Who knows what' Collaborative Database:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/50749-who-knows-what-collaborative-database/