Wheel of Time Mafia Game Thread

[dapianoplay3r]

whoa really? Surely we should hold off for a bit if you have viewed him? Go for someone unknown IMO especially since you got innocent back

[aemonkristen]

But Mynd is clearly the best option for our lynch today.

[dapianoplay3r]

Not if he is innocent, surely?

I know he is playing scummy but I dont like the idea of lynching an innocent knowingly. It just feels wrong

[DrewRiley]

But Mynd is clearly the best option for our lynch today.

 

UMMMM - RED FLAG?

 

Aemon is being compelled, but obviously doesn't want us to lynch Mynd. Okay, either Aemon isn't being compelled and he and Mynd are scum and being VERY tricky, or Aemon is being compelled, and Mynd is obviously innocent.

 

An interesting twist!

[bgrishinko]

Even after viewing Mynd as innocent last night, I think we should lynch him because he seems scummy.

 

Huh. Bgrishinko is now stumped. He trusted Aemon, and the compulsion still lingered. But it seemed he was sending out a message anyway in whatever way he could.

 

BG felt that Mynd's actions were indeed scummy, but now he didn't know what to think. For the time, he decided to UNVOTE

[bgrishinko]

Bgrishinko has begun to realize he is somewhat of a fickle person in this game.

[keyholder21]

Even after viewing Mynd as innocent last night, I think we should lynch him because he seems scummy.

 

Is it wrong that this made me laugh? Props to you Aemon, using your Compulsion like that. So Mynd is innocent then. Which leads us back to...right where we were before the NK. Or maybe even worse. Was one (or more) that Song discussed mafia, or did the mafia kill her to make us focus on those people. Oy.

 

And no, Mynd, you're not the only one that is lamenting Song's death.

[dapianoplay3r]

I completely forgot about the compulsion. Sorry. My bad. Ignore my little comments before

[Blackhoof]

Even after viewing Mynd as innocent last night, I think we should lynch him because he seems scummy.

 

wow... ah.... fair enough, this doesn't seem like something scum would tell you to say at all. good on you for letting this slip through the compulsion! *thumbs up* i can imagine moghedian/rahvin/graendal (most likely to use compulsion) sitting back smugly, watching in glee as you do their dirty work and then roar in anger as you say that! :D hilarious!

 

Graendal: I have complete control over this fool!

 

Aemon: Even after viewing Mynd as innocent last night-

 

Graendal: Nothing can stand- wait, what? NOOO!

 

I think that you are telling the truth, since it isn't likely that vote snatchers can make you do more than vote for thier target. adding 'i viewed mynd as innocent' probably wouldnt be included.

[Nynaeve]

I've caught up with the posts and all and I have to say I don't quite sense that Mynd is scum at this junction. I understand the idea of lynching someone that might give us a few bread crumbs concerning other players, pending on how he/she flips... But I also agree with others that stated that in this specific situation we can't really derive any information no matter what the outcome is. Aka Verbal flipping scum or innocent won't really divulge anything concerning Aemon. And vice versa. We can make assumptions but they won't have a real backing.

 

I do understand Mynd's notion about wanting to verify whether or not compulsion is in the game. The only alternative to Mynd's notion of offing Verbal or Aemon is to follow it through and see who gets compulsed the next day. And the day after that. After all, if there is no compulsion and this is all a plan of the scum then only scum could get "compulsed". They wouldn't be able to carry it for long and in the process they'll end up revealing themselves if they want to keep the pretense. If the Compulsion does exist, however, I suspect it would keep circulating. Theoretically, at least. Unless scum stops compulsing people or keep compulsing the same two people to stop us from gaining more information. But at the end of the day it's all about time. If we do it Mynd's way by the next day we can have one loose end tied. Or we could do it the other way but possibly waste valuable time. I am inclined to do it Mynd's way... but I do have a few reservations. It's a matter of whether or not we're willing to potentially sacrifice one of our own to attain information... so it comes down to that.

 

As for Song, I agree that she should have been protected. I can understand why Mynd would voice it in frustration at the loss. And if he was attempting to draw out the guard/s, I would expect something more impressive... seeing as this would be an extremely weak attempt. lol

 

Now it's time for my decaff.... yes, that's right... I'm not allowed real coffee anymore. Apparently it agitates my brain. So no matter where you are in the world or what time it is.... If you are drinking coffee remember! that I am not allowed to and I'm not happy about it :P

 

 

 

Nyn

Pouty

[Blackhoof]

I suppose it is a matter of attrition. Can we afford to lynch possible towners if we might get a mafia out of it? Is it worth the risk? If we lynch verbal, and he flips scum, that means that lynching aemon is sensible as well, but if aemon is scum as WELL, then that means that mynd is probably scum, and the whole "i viewed him innocently, but lynch him anyway" is a ploy. Who would listen to the obviously compelled? It is a pretty smart ply, actally.

 

On the other hand, if we DONT lynch aemon or verb, and instead lynch mynd, if he flips scum, aemon is clearly scum as well (possibly verbal) but if he flips innocent, then aemon is clear and verbal is less suspicious.

 

Hmmm..... or we could wait and see if any other evidence comes to the fore.

[Moon Sedai]

Unvote

 

If I appear to be bandwagoning, it is only because I'm having a really hard time keeping up with the game.

 

 

 

[Red2111]

Okay this is a long post. 5 pages to catch up and a lot of info to address. So I’ll break it up into 5 posts (the quotes alone are 5 pages in Word)

 

 

 

 

 

Verb – can you clear up the situation surrounding the fact you first voted Mynd then changed it to Aemon? Can you tell us about being compulsed, as far as how much control you have to fight it. Your silence on this is making me suspect you more; because as town I would think you would have wanted to clear this up instead of ignore it.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, for Aemons post. I’m not sure what to make of it; it depends on the type of control and how much wiggle room Aemon is allowed. But the scum would know he claimed as finder, and could use that to either implicate Mynd (saying Aemon was forced to say it) or clear Mynd (hoping people buy that Aemon was able to slip it in)

 

 

 

Either way, I’m actually ignoring Aemon right now, because you cannot believe the words coming out of a person who is compulsed and it only adds more WIFOM to the already confusing situation. I’d prefer to base my judgment of Mynd on his action & words alone, which is why I’m doing.

 

 

 

 

 

What I was trying to say is that if there were a reason to trust verbal 100% (I don't see a reason right now, but if one were to occur), then it's reasonable to trust Aemon as well, given that the mafia were unlikely to know for sure that having someone try to lynch Aemon wouldn't result in an Aemon lynch. Does that make sense? I think it's an important point.

 

Again, I'm not trusting ANYONE right now, but it would be nice to be able to have a group of people to trust at some point, so I'm just trying to set the groundwork for that.

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It’s kinda like with a silenced person. People were reluctant to lynch Aust Day 2 because he was silenced and couldn’t defend himself; it seems like the Compulsion works the same way, only people will tend to shy away from voting a person Compulsed (thinking he must be innocent) and not vote a person the Compulsed is forced to vote for (cause that person must be innocent as well).

 

 

 

These are the natural assumptions; assumptions an experienced team would know and use to their advantage. Which is why I say the Compulsion or Silence neither clears or implicates a person imo. And why I’m totally against the notion of “Lynching one to find out if its really there” because that’s playing into the scums hands.

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the scum were going to do a Compulsion ploy, wouldn't they start out as acting the Compulsion, as they'd have discussed it beforehand? Yet, Verbal voted for Mynd before suddenly switching to Aemon. That reads more to me like Verbal missed the PM, then was poked by the Lord Our Mod to correct.

 

 

 

Verb could very well be scum for all I know, and the discrepancy in voting yesterday does have me slightly suspecting Verb; as even if the situation Player laid out I don’t think he would have been allowed to vote at all until he had received the Vote PM. As I don’t’ know how the role works, because I haven’t been compulsed and don’t have the power of compulsion; I can only speculate to the rules<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

 

 

 

 

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

 

Bgrishinko submitted his proof to the town and hoped that it would be sufficient.

 

 

 

But Song said she had my Angreal; and Aemon implied that he would be gifting the Angreal he stole back to the owner because he had “cleared” Ed/MCS.

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I don't think I've ever seen a post that could be so hypocritical and make no sense at the same time. But I'm watching you Mynd. Like a hawk.

 

 

 

How is it hypocritical. If you (and others) are referring to my claim that Aemon is not Rand; I still stand by that. I no longer think Aemon is Taim though, and am more inclined to believe he’s Logain; aside from his false claim as Dragon, I’ve seen nothing else that would paint Aemon’s actions as scummy tbh.

 

 

 

Yet this is different from what Mynd is trying to do. Mynd is trying to lead people to believe that:

 

 

 

1. Compulsion might not be in use

 

2. That we should lynch either Aemon or Verb to prove Compulsion is in use

 

3. That if one flips scum, then the other is mostlikely scum

 

4. That if Aemon is innocent, it most likely clears himm cause Aemon is voting for him.

 

 

 

Those were his original arguments 5 or 6 pages back. Now, seeing the pressure he’s getting over this; he’s changing his tune to:

 

 

 

1. Compulsion might not be in use.

 

2. That we should lynch either Aemon or Verb to prove Compulsion is in use

 

3. That if one flips scum, then the other might or might not be scum

 

 

 

But is still arguing the same thing. Which is lynching possible innocents on the off chance that Compulsion might not be in use. Someone said earlier that if this is a gambit between the scum, they’ll get trapped in it eventually. Either being forced to Compulse the same two people over & over (of which they wont NK if those victims are innocent) or if it is Made up, then only Scum will act Compulsed.

 

 

 

Now, let me ask you something. Seeing how the Forsaken like to use Compulsion in the books, how likely do you think that it’s a real power in the game? And how likely do you think it is that a scum would use this to try and get a few innocents lynched by pushing for it on thread.

 

 

 

 

While Bgrishinko has changed his tune in light of more recent events, he couldn't recall Red's current opinions of Aemon and he would love to hear Red on the supposed Dragon Reborn.

 

 

 

I will maintain this until my dieing breath in this game. By my hope of rebirth and salvation, Aemon is not Rand AlThor and therefore not the true Dragon.

 

 

 

But as I said during Night 1, a discussion about this between me & Aemon would get no where and just allow for confusion for the scum to hide under. I also said during Day 2, that I think it more likely he is Logain (due to his actions on thread) and that others were right in their assumption that he doesn’t know he isn’t the true Dragon or is forced to believe he’s the true Dragon.

 

 

 

Either way, I no longer believe Aemon to be a Darkfriend.

 

 

more to come, but i have a bit of work i need to catch up on; and 3 pages of quotes left in Word.

 

 

[mcs0083]

I thought we said no novels Red

[DrewRiley]

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

 

Bgrishinko submitted his proof to the town and hoped that it would be sufficient.

 

 

 

But Song said she had my Angreal; and Aemon implied that he would be gifting the Angreal he stole back to the owner because he had “cleared” Ed/MCS.

<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

 

So Perrin must have been carrying more than one 'angreal, the Vora Sa'angreal, and your angreal, right?

[Alanna]

Sorry guys, I've been sick for a coule of days and have a lot to catch up on. Unfortuantely, some workers are doing something here at our house today, and I've just been informed the internet will be cut off in a few minutes. Grr. I might be able post at work later today, or I might drop by my aunt's house to get online. At any rate, I need to finish catching up on everything I missed first.

[Red2111]

Okay so post #2. my responses are in Red, since Blue is apparently ironic.

 

 

 

Again, I am simply offering an observation. Isn't it possible that Verbal decided to run this gambit mid game?

 

 

 

 

 

Its possible, yes. But as I have no reason to doubt that Compulsion is in this game (considering it’s overuse in the WoT series, and considering we are dealing with the Forsaken) then I see no reason to lynch people for the soul purpose of testing whether it’s truly in play or not. If this is a gambit, then it’s a very tricky gambit and is liable to trip the scum up in their own game.

 

 

 

Why are you so focused on this Mynd, and trying to get people to focus in on it instead of going over hard evidence we can trust; like the votes on Min and pressuring others who have appeared scummy on thread. We cannot trust any info gained from those who are currently under compulsion, nor from who they are forced to vote.

 

 

 

 

 

If it was a player error, why didn't Womby delete his previous posts that were in violation of his PR? I'm still confuzzled as hell at the new DM; however, even I know to check my messages before posting. Verb always gives a reason for why he's voting someone, which is why he would have not given any room for mis-interpretation....he would have been OVER-THE-TOP with his vote for Aemon.

 

 

 

Secondly, I have no inside info on this at all, save my experience modding games with such a power in play. I am only going by what has already been said in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

Imo, Verbs switch to Aemon with no explanation was over the top for him. It was out of the ordinary, and got people attention.

 

 

 

As for why the first vote didn’t get erased; Womby didn’t have me erase the words that caused me to be restricted Day 1. Also, seeing as we don’t know exactly how the compulsion works, we can only speculate as to what really went on. There are a lot of possability’s and too much WIFOM surrounding this to go into without creating more confusion around the Compulsion.

 

 

 

For instance, why are you so sure the first vote was in violation of the Compulsion. How do you know this? Who says the Forsaken can’t change the person their making the victim vote for?

 

 

 

You’re thinking really narrowly Mynd, Mr. King of WIFOM. And this is why I suspect you.

 

 

 

Thirdly, why the need to make it clear you are not defending Verb when you kinda are?

 

 

 

 

 

I felt I needed to clarify it because I knew it would be taken as me defending him; like you insist I’m doing in the above sentence.

 

 

 

As I’ve said numerous times, I’m not defending Verb. What I am arguing against (and there for defending) is the notion of lynching a possible townie or two to prove that compulsion is in the game when it will gain us no information for finding scum.

 

 

 

Come up with a different reason to vote for Aemon or Verb and I’ll be more than happy to consider it; but voting someone for the sake of proving the scum have a power, we might as well lynch Aust as well to prove he was silenced. It gets us no closer to finding scum.

 

 

 

Since when is bringing up that there might be a vig in this game scummish?

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t say it was scummy; just that it perked my attention; because it seemed like the suggestion came out of left field tbh.

 

 

 

You are right here, Verb's innocence does not implicate Aemon or vice versa; however, it does make one or the other less likely scum if the other flips innocent. If either Verb or Aemon flip scum, then the compulsion is a lie and both Verb and Aemon must be scum for playing along with it. If Verb or Aemon flip innocent, it validates the claim that compulsion is in play. I agree that it doesn't validate me in any way.

 

 

 

 

 

You contradict yourself directly in this paragraph. Not to mention change your original story. First you claim that Aemons alignment would clear you and he’s the better lynch choice; not you say you agree that it wouldn’t clear you.

 

 

 

Then you say their alignements don’t implicate eachother, but if one flips scum then both must be scum. this is all gong on the assumption of the Compulsion not being real (which is the angle you’ve been pushing form the start).

 

 

 

Yet your leaving out the possibility that the Compulsion is likely to be real, that Verb could have been faking it to try and clear himself and that Aemon is being set up because a teammate or narrow minded townie wants to link Aemon & Verb together (which you’ve been trying to do). Or that they might be both innocent and the scum is hoping we’ll over think the situation and lynch a few townies for them before we clue into the fact that “Hey, their playing us for light blinded fools”

 

 

 

This is another reason why I suspect you, because I know you’re not this narrow minded unless it’s done intentionally.

 

 

 

Red, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or pointing out flaws in my logic, that's what I was asking for. I do find it confuzzling that you would cast a vote my way for simply questioning something we cannot completely verify yet. You're jumping the gun here and that's dangerous play. What happened to the methodical Red from Day 1 and 2?

 

 

 

 

 

I voted for you because you keep trying to link two players and in doing so attempted to use that to clear yourself. You’re still trying to link two players but have dropped the latter because you’ve gotten pressure on it. this is manipulative behavior and I fully do not agree with it; and see it more as a scum trying to lead the town to come to a conclusion without having to get their hands dirty.

 

 

 

If you truly believed what your preaching, why haven’t you voted that way yet Mynd?

 

 

 

...and am I the only one disappointed in our protectors NOT protecting Songs last night?

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No your not. But the Wheel weaves as the Wheel Wills and there are always casualty’s in war; especially when said war is against the Shadow. I grieve for the loss of Song, but at the same time I realize that we cannot let our grief over come us or narrow our vision. Nor do I think chiding our healers when we don’t know what may have happened behind the scene a wise course of action.

 

 

 

My Angreal prevented me from being Role Blocked. With a RB (or multiple RB’s) in this game, who knows what may have happened. Some might say that your lament for Songs loss might be Scum trying to sound town.

 

 

 

 

My only response here is that town-oriented players are fact focused. Mafia try to discredit the player instead of disputing facts. I ask everyone else, which is Verbal doing in the above post? How is this advancing the game? I would have rather he argue against the whole compulsion argument which is the primary reason for my suspicion. Instead, he's trying to discredit me. Doesn't read like a town-aligned post to me.

 

 

 

 

 

And I ask the revese of you. How is lynching people to prove that Compulsion is real pro-active in hunting down scum.

 

 

 

Do you really think it likely that the Scum would make this up, therefore limiting the people able to be compulsed to a select few and highlighting the fact that they may be scum (especially when a finder could easily sort I t out for us).

 

 

 

Or do you think it more likely that Compulsion is a real power in this game, and the scum will likely target both themselves and townies to try and confuse us.

 

 

 

What info could we possibly gain by finding out that Compulsion is in use by possibly lynching 2 townies to prove this? How does that help us beat the scum? heck, we can’t even trust the info we gain from the Compulsion because we know scum are the ones controlling it.

 

 

 

What you suggest is much the same as Lynching a proclaimed finder to prove he was finder, or lynching a person silenced to prove there is a silencer.

 

 

 

So, please argue with me on the facts. If I am wrong, point it out, but don't vote to lynch me because you disagree with me. My points are these:

 

1) We don't know for sure that compulsion is even in play.

 

 

 

 

 

Very true, but how does lynching potential innocents to prove something that is likely in play beneficial to the town? Having a finder view one or both of them is a better & safer way to go; especially since chances are good Compulsion is in this game.

 

 

 

2) Verbal's sudden shift into the compulsion midway on Day 2 is worth more than an eyebrow raise.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, and I’d like Verb to address this as well.

 

 

 

3) Aemon being the choice of said compulsion for Day 3 has me vexed. If you were mafia with that power, would you have picked the guy Verbal was going after?<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

 

 

 

Depends on their motive and how much chaos they intended to sow. Because Aemon is considered innocent right now in the thread, the scum could have picked him to help clear Verb.

 

 

 

 

4) Being disappointed in the lack of protection on Songs is not a reason to be lynched, nor is voicing said opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

Correct, it’s just not tactful or helpful.

 

 

 

5) Town-oriented players argue the facts, they don't leap to discredit those who simply doubt their claims. They certainly don't vote because they disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m discrediting your “facts” Mynd; not discrediting you. And everyone I’ve seen arguing against this dangerous proposal you’ve suggested has done the same. Now you’re trying to cast doubt on tose who disagree with you, called a deflection attempt by some people.

 

 

 

 

 

[Red2111]

*head desk* it didn't carry over the red from Word. ignore the above post

 

Okay so post #2. my responses are in Red, since Blue is apparently ironic.

 

 

 

Again, I am simply offering an observation. Isn't it possible that Verbal decided to run this gambit mid game?

 

 

Its possible, yes. But as I have no reason to doubt that Compulsion is in this game (considering it’s overuse in the WoT series, and considering we are dealing with the Forsaken) then I see no reason to lynch people for the soul purpose of testing whether it’s truly in play or not. If this is a gambit, then it’s a very tricky gambit and is liable to trip the scum up in their own game.

Why are you so focused on this Mynd, and trying to get people to focus in on it instead of going over hard evidence we can trust; like the votes on Min and pressuring others who have appeared scummy on thread. We cannot trust any info gained from those who are currently under compulsion, nor from who they are forced to vote.

 

If it was a player error, why didn't Womby delete his previous posts that were in violation of his PR? I'm still confuzzled as hell at the new DM; however, even I know to check my messages before posting. Verb always gives a reason for why he's voting someone, which is why he would have not given any room for mis-interpretation....he would have been OVER-THE-TOP with his vote for Aemon.

 

Secondly, I have no inside info on this at all, save my experience modding games with such a power in play. I am only going by what has already been said in this thread.

 

 

Imo, Verbs switch to Aemon with no explanation was over the top for him. It was out of the ordinary, and got people attention.

 

As for why the first vote didn’t get erased; Womby didn’t have me erase the words that caused me to be restricted Day 1. Also, seeing as we don’t know exactly how the compulsion works, we can only speculate as to what really went on. There are a lot of possability’s and too much WIFOM surrounding this to go into without creating more confusion around the Compulsion.

 

For instance, why are you so sure the first vote was in violation of the Compulsion. How do you know this? Who says the Forsaken can’t change the person their making the victim vote for?

 

You’re thinking really narrowly Mynd, Mr. King of WIFOM. And this is why I suspect you.

 

 

Thirdly, why the need to make it clear you are not defending Verb when you kinda are?

 

 

I felt I needed to clarify it because I knew it would be taken as me defending him; like you insist I’m doing in the above sentence.

 

As I’ve said numerous times, I’m not defending Verb. What I am arguing against (and there for defending) is the notion of lynching a possible townie or two to prove that compulsion is in the game when it will gain us no information for finding scum.

 

Come up with a different reason to vote for Aemon or Verb and I’ll be more than happy to consider it; but voting someone for the sake of proving the scum have a power, we might as well lynch Aust as well to prove he was silenced. It gets us no closer to finding scum.

 

Since when is bringing up that there might be a vig in this game scummish?

 

 

I didn’t say it was scummy; just that it perked my attention; because it seemed like the suggestion came out of left field tbh.

 

You are right here, Verb's innocence does not implicate Aemon or vice versa; however, it does make one or the other less likely scum if the other flips innocent. If either Verb or Aemon flip scum, then the compulsion is a lie and both Verb and Aemon must be scum for playing along with it. If Verb or Aemon flip innocent, it validates the claim that compulsion is in play. I agree that it doesn't validate me in any way.

 

You contradict yourself directly in this paragraph. Not to mention change your original story. First you claim that Aemons alignment would clear you and he’s the better lynch choice; not you say you agree that it wouldn’t clear you.

 

Then you say their alignements don’t implicate eachother, but if one flips scum then both must be scum. this is all gong on the assumption of the Compulsion not being real (which is the angle you’ve been pushing form the start).

 

Yet your leaving out the possibility that the Compulsion is likely to be real, that Verb could have been faking it to try and clear himself and that Aemon is being set up because a teammate or narrow minded townie wants to link Aemon & Verb together (which you’ve been trying to do). Or that they might be both innocent and the scum is hoping we’ll over think the situation and lynch a few townies for them before we clue into the fact that “Hey, their playing us for light blinded fools”

 

This is another reason why I suspect you, because I know you’re not this narrow minded unless it’s done intentionally.

 

 

Red, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or pointing out flaws in my logic, that's what I was asking for. I do find it confuzzling that you would cast a vote my way for simply questioning something we cannot completely verify yet. You're jumping the gun here and that's dangerous play. What happened to the methodical Red from Day 1 and 2?

 

 

I voted for you because you keep trying to link two players and in doing so attempted to use that to clear yourself. You’re still trying to link two players but have dropped the latter because you’ve gotten pressure on it. this is manipulative behavior and I fully do not agree with it; and see it more as a scum trying to lead the town to come to a conclusion without having to get their hands dirty.

 

If you truly believed what your preaching, why haven’t you voted that way yet Mynd?

 

 

...and am I the only one disappointed in our protectors NOT protecting Songs last night?

 

 

No your not. But the Wheel weaves as the Wheel Wills and there are always casualty’s in war; especially when said war is against the Shadow. I grieve for the loss of Song, but at the same time I realize that we cannot let our grief over come us or narrow our vision. Nor do I think chiding our healers when we don’t know what may have happened behind the scene a wise course of action.

 

My Angreal prevented me from being Role Blocked. With a RB (or multiple RB’s) in this game, who knows what may have happened. Some might say that your lament for Songs loss might be Scum trying to sound town.

 

My only response here is that town-oriented players are fact focused. Mafia try to discredit the player instead of disputing facts. I ask everyone else, which is Verbal doing in the above post? How is this advancing the game? I would have rather he argue against the whole compulsion argument which is the primary reason for my suspicion. Instead, he's trying to discredit me. Doesn't read like a town-aligned post to me.

 

 

And I ask the revese of you. How is lynching people to prove that Compulsion is real pro-active in hunting down scum.

 

Do you really think it likely that the Scum would make this up, therefore limiting the people able to be compulsed to a select few and highlighting the fact that they may be scum (especially when a finder could easily sort I t out for us).

 

Or do you think it more likely that Compulsion is a real power in this game, and the scum will likely target both themselves and townies to try and confuse us.

 

What info could we possibly gain by finding out that Compulsion is in use by possibly lynching 2 townies to prove this? How does that help us beat the scum? heck, we can’t even trust the info we gain from the Compulsion because we know scum are the ones controlling it.

 

What you suggest is much the same as Lynching a proclaimed finder to prove he was finder, or lynching a person silenced to prove there is a silencer.

 

 

So, please argue with me on the facts. If I am wrong, point it out, but don't vote to lynch me because you disagree with me. My points are these:

 

1) We don't know for sure that compulsion is even in play.

 

 

Very true, but how does lynching potential innocents to prove something that is likely in play beneficial to the town? Having a finder view one or both of them is a better & safer way to go; especially since chances are good Compulsion is in this game.

 

2) Verbal's sudden shift into the compulsion midway on Day 2 is worth more than an eyebrow raise.

 

 

Agreed, and I’d like Verb to address this as well.

 

3) Aemon being the choice of said compulsion for Day 3 has me vexed. If you were mafia with that power, would you have picked the guy Verbal was going after?

 

 

Depends on their motive and how much chaos they intended to sow. Because Aemon is considered innocent right now in the thread, the scum could have picked him to help clear Verb.

 

 

4) Being disappointed in the lack of protection on Songs is not a reason to be lynched, nor is voicing said opinion.

 

 

Correct, it’s just not tactful or helpful.

 

 

5) Town-oriented players argue the facts, they don't leap to discredit those who simply doubt their claims. They certainly don't vote because they disagree.

 

 

I’m discrediting your “facts” Mynd; not discrediting you. And everyone I’ve seen arguing against this dangerous proposal you’ve suggested has done the same. Now you’re trying to cast doubt on tose who disagree with you, called a deflection attempt by some people.

[Red2111]

and i'm caught up now. so for the mini novellas and triple posts.

 

 

I suppose it is a matter of attrition. Can we afford to lynch possible towners if we might get a mafia out of it? Is it worth the risk? If we lynch verbal, and he flips scum, that means that lynching aemon is sensible as well, but if aemon is scum as WELL, then that means that mynd is probably scum, and the whole "i viewed him innocently, but lynch him anyway" is a ploy. Who would listen to the obviously compelled? It is a pretty smart ply, actally.

 

On the other hand, if we DONT lynch aemon or verb, and instead lynch mynd, if he flips scum, aemon is clearly scum as well (possibly verbal) but if he flips innocent, then aemon is clear and verbal is less suspicious.

 

Hmmm..... or we could wait and see if any other evidence comes to the fore.

<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">And yet another scummy post by Blackhoof.

 

 

 

If we don’t lynch Mynd, I wouldn’t be opposed to lynching Blackhoof; I’ve found him scummy since Day 1 and he was really silent during the entire Min vote. I’m noticing a pattern.

 

 

 

He was really vocal when we all started in on Be’lal; yet silent when we started in on Min. now we’re FOSing Mynd heavily, and look whose back to being vocal.

 

 

 

Smells like a potential symp. Notice how he pushes the notion of “if Verb flips scum, then Aemon must be as well” same angle Mynd is pushing. Which says to me they might know that Verb will flip scum but are willing to lose a team mate inorder to get us to lynch a possible finder and Logain.

 

 

 

Then he throws in “if Mynd is scum then so is Aemon” once again linking two players together. *shakes head sadly*

 

 

 

 

 

I thought we said no novels Red

 

you were warned at the beginning afterall, i have a reputation to maintain

 

 

So Perrin must have been carrying more than one 'angreal, the Vora Sa'angreal, and your angreal, right?

 

i dunno. all i know is that when me & Ed were goign at it; Song backed me up becuase she claimed to have been the one to recieve my Angreal. As far as i know, all i had was an Angreal, not a Vora Sa'angreal; so there is that discrepancy as well.

 

Aemon could have gifted it to Song, but then why didn't BG get both of them? BG is on my list of suspects tbh, for the reasons Aemon's already listed and the fact thta he seems to be collecting alot of Angreals. it's more aof a ping in my gut than something i can pinpoint on thread; but i can't say i'm liking it.

[Red2111]

that was supposed to read "sorry for" not "So for" *kicks her CPU*

[Verbal32]

Red, I will address your question(s) in a separate post. WoT crits me for 9572945792 damage.

 

 

If Be'lal was in the game, then it stands to reason that most, if not all, Chosen are in this game.

 

Freudian slip?

 

No. I just like the Chosen (in the books, not this game), so I usually use that word over Forsaken. Flavor, nothing more.

 

 

 

At this point, Mynd, I hope you're not still going for the 'lynch A to clear B' plan. That only works with Cop viewings (sometimes) or something mod confirmed. It certainly doesn't work in this instance. I'm surprised at your insistence here. Others have responded to you, and you're still thinking your plan would work?

 

You're a hard one to pinpoint, Mynd. If you're scum, then good work and we need to kill you. If you're town, then stop helping scum and focus. I agreed with several of your posts over the last few days, but you're starting to fire blindly from the hip.....and it's going to get you lynched.

My only response here is that town-oriented players are fact focused. Mafia try to discredit the player instead of disputing facts. I ask everyone else, which is Verbal doing in the above post? How is this advancing the game? I would have rather he argue against the whole compulsion argument which is the primary reason for my suspicion. Instead, he's trying to discredit me. Doesn't read like a town-aligned post to me.

 

Really? In sooooooo many games, you've definitively stated that somebody was mafia, when they were not. And neither were you in many of those cases. That is a misguided townie who does more damage to the town than the scum. Stop doing it. Be reasonable - people are starting to point out inconsistencies in your posts, and Aemon is even saying you're innocent. Act like it.

 

 

 

BG had debated when to share this information, but now feels that it can only help the town to reveal what he had uncovered. As the last night's dawn came and Perrin was found dead, few were nearby when the deed was committed. Bgrishinko just happened to be wandering by when he came upon Perrin's body. In the hopes of preventing Darkfriends from looting the precious items that Perrin may have had, BG decided to do it first.

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

On the surface, this makes a lot of sense....except....the only people who know who is innocent for sure are the mafia. Would it be possible for the mafia to give the (whatever) to someone they know is innocent and then whack said innocent to get it back? What happens again when someone is whacked by the mafia? Do they get the items because they submitted the night kill? Aemon gave the (whatever) to Songs long before it was common understanding that she was innocent. I'm not buying this.

 

Bgrishinko then wondered about the incredibly odd logic of what Mynd said here, especially when Aemon has claimed to be a finder. That power alone gave him the ability to know who is innocent for sure. If the Darkfriends already had the Sa'angreal, why would they need to give it to someone and give them a temporary advantage, then whack them to get it back when they had it in the first place? He realized as well that Mynd obviously missed the Creator's statement that all dead people could be searched for items upon the announcement of their death. BG wondered if maybe Mynd really DID know that, and in an effort to post blame, hinted that BG was Darkfriend in his ability to claim the item. Scummy indeed.

 

Normally this is the point where I'd place a vote on Mynd, but I'm not. I think Aemon is town (based on gifting the Vora to Song), which then implicates bg as also town (unless this is an elaborate ruse, in which case I hate you people). Having said that, Mynd has gone into 'fire from the hip' mode, at which point the best way to deal with it is to ignore it until he settles and posts pro-town.

 

And by 'fire from the hip' mode, Mynd, I mean you're saying stuff that makes no sense (like in the rule clarification bg posted above). You should know these things if you take the time to focus on what you are trying to say instead of doing the aforementioned hip-firing. ;-)

 

We work well together when you are town - let's do it here. It doesn't matter if Compulsion is in play - we have an obvious way to identify it, and it's only one vote (for now).

[DrewRiley]

So Perrin must have been carrying more than one 'angreal, the Vora Sa'angreal, and your angreal, right?

 

i dunno. all i know is that when me & Ed were goign at it; Song backed me up becuase she claimed to have been the one to recieve my Angreal. As far as i know, all i had was an Angreal, not a Vora Sa'angreal; so there is that discrepancy as well.

 

Aemon could have gifted it to Song, but then why didn't BG get both of them? BG is on my list of suspects tbh, for the reasons Aemon's already listed and the fact thta he seems to be collecting alot of Angreals. it's more aof a ping in my gut than something i can pinpoint on thread; but i can't say i'm liking it.

 

I don't know why I was beating around the bush, here. I looted Perrin's body after BG did and received an angreal. So if BG is telling the truth and got the Vora, then I got yours, Red. Prevents role-blocking and stilling for a female channeler.

[Verbal32]

Verb – can you clear up the situation surrounding the fact you first voted Mynd then changed it to Aemon? Can you tell us about being compulsed, as far as how much control you have to fight it. Your silence on this is making me suspect you more; because as town I would think you would have wanted to clear this up instead of ignore it.

 

 

I can easily clear this up. My explanation is simple, however I can't necessarily prove it.

 

Wombat sent me a PM midday to state that I've been compuled to vote for Aemon. That was it. I'm willing to bet that Aemon received his PM during the night or right when day started, because it appears Wombat forgot to send it to me. I would imagine he noticed that when he saw I voted for Mynd, and then sent me the PM. I wasn't going against Compulsion when I voted Mynd as I did not yet know I was under it, which explains my sudden switch to Aemon in midstream.

 

Does this make sense? I would normally ask for mod clarification here, but Wombat might not be able to do this for a few reasons:

 

1. While not implicating me as town, it certainly leans that way for him to confirm I was under Compulsion.

 

2. Based on that, it would also confirm Compulsion is in play, which serves to undermine whoever the hell is doing it.

 

3. The issue with this whole thing is that mod error could then get me lynched. This is VERY delicate territory. Wombat will likely not say anything here, but I think my explanation is reasonable.

[Myndrunner]

Unvote

 

If I appear to be bandwagoning, it is only because I'm having a really hard time keeping up with the game.

 

 

I was about to call this post scummy, until I saw the subsequent Jordan sized prologue posted by Red. I think I'm with Ahmoondah now!

 

I'll reply in a bit, gonna grab some lunch and take a nap first.....

[CurtisScafe]

Lol Red, we have a saying for people like you with your errors: PEBKAC