Contest of wills

[Arc]

Who's the strongest individual(metaphorical)according to you (and why)? maybe it's best to name your top 3, since I myself found it difficult to pick just one. Mind you, I'm not talking about being the best leader, and not about who's has the fierced reputation, or the one that invokes the most awe or terror on their suroundings either. Just plain and simple: the strongest will.

 

The question is simple. It was clinging in the back of my head for quitte some time, now it's finally out there. throughout the series several woman are repeatedly described as Unbenable, strong, with a gaze that made you weak in the knees, etc. But who's the strongest? In their own seperate 'habitats' they are considered dominant and superior, but few of these woman have interacted with one another so it's hard to measure. As for Eggy and Nyn: they have grown and reached new hights since ToM and TGS. I'm not sure if they would have been able to compete if the last two books weren't taken into account.

 

I think I listed the most prominent, could have forgotten one or two though. The names listed speak for themselves.

Personally I Picked Therava, just a feeling though. Maybe Tuon as close second. Than Lanfear would be 3th.

 

 

Be my guest -

[rsahae]

1. Egwene

2. Sorilea

3. Tuon

[Sid]

Of these choices, Egwene, Tuon, Sorilea, Therava, and maybe Lanfear could even qualify.

 

I don't think Lanfear could win base solely on will without being a stronger channeler than everyone else.

Therava... hard to say. I guess she'd lose out to Sorilea since every Wise One does.

Tuon faced down the Dragon Reborn with his Ta'veren effect going as strongly as he could consciously control it (if he can)

Egwene organized dissension within the White Tower, ultimately bringing down an Amyrlin Seat while shielded and beaten.

Sorilea is the top dog of the Aiel Wise One hierarchy, made up almost entirely of tough willed women.

 

therefore, I would have to agree with rsahae's top three, though the exact order is impossible to determine without them meeting up in AMoL. I'm leaning toward Egwene>Tuon>Sorilea personally.

[SuperFade]

Siuan Sanche. She spent decades searching for the Dragon Reborn, endured the despair of being stilled and persevered through all the plotting and Aes Sedai machinations so that Egwene could have a hope of becoming more than just a puppet Amyrlin.

[Goramier]

It all depends. Is there a no-contest clause in the will? If there is, the contestant had better have probable cause and a good-faith reason to contest the will or (s)he is outta here.

[yoniy0]

I make a point of not arguing with Sid when he's right.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Egwene, tuon and sorelia are certainly top dogs, however, I will have to go with Moiraine.

 

Her single goal to aid the Dragon Reborn for me takes it.

 

While Egwene and sorelia will not bend to anyone, Moiraine throws away her pride in devotion to Rand becomming subserviant to see her will done.

 

She also sacrifices herself, willingly submitting to torture at the hands of the Finns for months for her cause.

 

So for me, although it is not a steel will that bends to noone, it is the strongest.

 

Steel is extremely strong, but it can be broken while rubber can be bent but hardly ever broken. (not quite accurate, but you get the point)

[Nooska]

I make a point of not arguing with Sid when he's right.

+1 for WW reference

[Haldir1980]

I somehow go with Caddy but simply because I love her..Morainne, Soreila, Tuon, Therava are others. Siuan too.

[nolirion]

First Moraine then Cadsuane , Sorilea come very close but because we don't see her often that I can't made my mind on it .

Moraine was the first to help and protect rand , against the shadow the forsaken , Rand himself , the white tower .

Cadsuane for the gut she had facing Dark Rand and because she is a super Grandmother .

 

Then Egwene and Nynaeve in equality with Avi when she is not foolish .

[Hopefire]

I voted for Moiraine, but it's pretty much a dead heat for me between Moiraine, Tuon, and Cadsuane, with Setalle just missing the top three.

 

Setalle: She seems to have survived as long as any woman has who's been stilled, and we know that that takes no small amount of willpower. If I had to guess, I'd say she's a lot tougher mentally now than she ever was as an Aes Sedai. She stands up pretty well to Tuon, and seems to be able to do a decent job of riding herd on Aes Sedai.

 

Tuon: Right or wrong, she has willpower to burn, and is absolutely convinced of the correctness of her cause. She withstood Rand's Pattern Warp in TGS. Her biggest flaw is a lack of flexibility regarding some deeply held beliefs.

 

Cadsuane: Decades older than the next oldest Aes Sedai in the world, over three hundred years old despite the effects of the Oath Rod. Her determination to keep going says a lot about her. She's generally ornery, often a bully, and always tough as nails. I think that she edges out Sorellia by being more proactive and bullheaded about her goals, while also being able to change up her strategies and come at things from a different direction as circumstances require. She sometimes misjudges, but that's being human. If it were not for Moiraine and Rand, I'd consider her the most strong willed person in the series.

 

Moiraine: There's no doubt about it in my mind, the more I think on it. For twenty years she searched constantly for the Dragon Reborn, able to trust no one but her Warder. Traveling the world, trying to track down clues as to where or who he might be, knowing that if the Dark One's agents found him first it could quite literally be the end of the world. So far as we can see, she never flinched. And then, once she found the Dragon and found he was not what she expected, trying to guide him and shape him into what he needed to be. Risking her life time and again, bending her pride so she could continue to teach him as much as she could, and eventually being willing to sacrifice everything to ensure that Rand continued on his proper path. Rand described her as silk over steel, and that sums her up well.

[randsc]

Setalle is an excellent answer. I can't believe I didn't think of her.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Weirdly enough I kinda admire Setalle Anan, as far as willpower.

 

I know she doesn't have the screen-time that elaborates on what she went through, but all the other choices, to me, speak to alot of occasions wherein those characters found themselves in those situations by virtue of choosing to be where they are?

 

Sorry, somewhat jumbled. Setalle's been burned out, and that must have completely trashed her life, everything she'd known, and made her pretty much want to kill herself if she hadn't have found that will to live.

 

I mean we see the whole effect of stilling on Siuan & Leane's psyche, but only for a relatively short while, and they've got their cause before them fairly quickly, and are healed soon enough after.

 

I imagine Setalle must have gone through some chronic depression et al. and to be able to come through that, and as we see now, be back around people who so easily are able to use the power as she surely must have...

 

I dunno, I think she's underrated, so to speak.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I pick:

1. Siuan

2. Moraine/Leanne

3. Setalle Anan

With Nynaeve close behind.

I think that to judge somebody's strenght of will you have to see how would they cope when their main source of "external" power was taken away from them and they would have to lean on their inner strength only. Therefore I see Siuan's will as the strongest because she lost her power and her office and had to deal with guilt and responsibility for what happeneded to White Tower and her friends (Leanne, who is also a very strong person IMHO) and warders.

Egwene's power was never taken away from her - by her power I mean strength in the One Power, Dreaming Talent and, last but not least, her self-righteousness

Concerning Therava- dominating a totally helpless person (Galina) is by no means a proof of strong will.

[tipwong]

moraine and nynaeve and Verin

 

They both have one quality,can be bend while not broken. For Moraine other people who support her has explained already. While Nynaeve...mainly because of her doing during and after the test for the shawl. And in her submission to Egwene.(both in the TOM). Verin ......to be a double agent for so long is already a prove,isn't it?

[Elan Tedronai]

Easy answer this.

 

Just ask Mesaana herself.

[blazetheearth]

I love the fact that right now more people have voted for Bela as have voted for Eggy.

 

 

I voted for Nyn.

 

But really it's a toss up for me between several, because I have a hard time with defining 'strength of will'. We see many examples of it through the series, but it's hard to compare the 'strength of will' to resist torture with the 'strength of will' to walk willingly to a situation that you know will end up in torture or death. One character might be able to do one but not the other, so which really has a stronger will? To me, while they both require a 'strength of will', they are like trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

Honestly, I think that Brigette deserves a place on this list also, because I could easily see her persevering in almost any situation that many of the the other female characters have found themselves in.

 

I might have included Alise in this list also,

[Mystraka]

1.) Tuon - Who else could have stood up to the Dragon, while he focused his will on her? For me, that moment in tGS was the most impressive display of inner will in the series.

 

2.) Verin - Killing ones self for the greater good takes a ton of will power.

 

Tuon only beats Verin due to the fact that her will power was stronger than the Ta'Veren power of the Dragon himself

 

Setalle: She seems to have survived as long as any woman has who's been stilled, and we know that that takes no small amount of willpower. If I had to guess, I'd say she's a lot tougher mentally now than she ever was as an Aes Sedai. She stands up pretty well to Tuon, and seems to be able to do a decent job of riding herd on Aes Sedai.

 

For what its worth, Setalle wasnt "stilled" she was Burned out, which while both events leave the person unable to channel, a burned out woman can no longer sense the source.

It would be the difference between:

Smoker A quits, and never sees a pack of smokes again.

Smoker B quits, and has, always in sight, a pack of smokes that no matter how hard B tries, they cannot reach.

[Arc]

But really it's a toss up for me between several, because I have a hard time with defining 'strength of will'. We see many examples of it through the series, but it's hard to compare the 'strength of will' to resist torture with the 'strength of will' to walk willingly to a situation that you know will end up in torture or death. One character might be able to do one but not the other, so which really has a stronger will? To me, while they both require a 'strength of will', they are like trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

The 'defining strength of will' puzzled me to when I wrote down the question . There are several factors who might contribute to willpower as mentioned by several already. And as I said above, I was aiming at the narrowest possible definition, but now I doubt that such a thing is even possible. Maybe one should look at it more in a confronting way, as in: 'when you put one of them against another, who will sucomb and eventually obey the other.' (The rationality of what it is they are opposed about doe not matter)

 

anyway I added Verin and Alise to the list. (how could I forget Alise, I kind'a liked her)

[b3arz3rg3r]

I can't believe Sorilea is beating Bela

[Tollieman]

I always saw Sorilea as 'stronger' than Cadsuane. Doesn't it say somewhere in Cadsuane's POV that she is impressed by Sorilea. And what I find cool is that Sorilea herself doesn't even acknowledge or regard the fact that she's impressive.

 

I voted for her, but Tuon (ugh) and Egwene (ultra-ugh) are bloody high up there. Maybe even stronger, but I dislike them intensely so there.

[ranjitb]

I dunno.

I'm going to throw Siuan a bone here.

How many other women would have pulled themselves together, plotted a rift in the White Tower, and launched a million rebellious schemes while dealing with the (supposed) horror of being Stilled and going from the position of most powerful person in the world to washerwoman.

 

The All-Mother is of course portrayed as the toughest most perfect person in all of creation, but nothing bad ever happens to her, not really (not since the Great Hunt), so who knows how she would deal with real adversity ?

[randsc]

1.) Tuon - Who else could have stood up to the Dragon, while he focused his will on her? For me, that moment in tGS was the most impressive display of inner will in the series.

 

2.) Verin - Killing ones self for the greater good takes a ton of will power.

 

Tuon only beats Verin due to the fact that her will power was stronger than the Ta'Veren power of the Dragon himself

 

 

I'm not sure that she resisted his ta'veren power. Being ta'veren doesn't mean you can impose your will on others. It means you are used to impose the needs of the Pattern on others. It could well be that the Pattern didn't require her allegiance to Rand while he was still in his Dark Rand phase. The Seanchan do, after all, play a significant role in the end of Dark Rand and birth of Zen Rand. A greater role than Cadsuane, who tends to get the credit.

[nolirion]

1.) Tuon - Who else could have stood up to the Dragon, while he focused his will on her? For me, that moment in tGS was the most impressive display of inner will in the series.

 

2.) Verin - Killing ones self for the greater good takes a ton of will power.

 

Tuon only beats Verin due to the fact that her will power was stronger than the Ta'Veren power of the Dragon himself

 

 

I'm not sure that she resisted his ta'veren power. Being ta'veren doesn't mean you can impose your will on others. It means you are used to impose the needs of the Pattern on others. It could well be that the Pattern didn't require her allegiance to Rand while he was still in his Dark Rand phase. The Seanchan do, after all, play a significant role in the end of Dark Rand and birth of Zen Rand. A greater role than Cadsuane, who tends to get the credit.

I agree with randsc.

[rsahae]

It all depends. Is there a no-contest clause in the will? If there is, the contestant had better have probable cause and a good-faith reason to contest the will or (s)he is outta here.

 

Well said and thanks for going there. Furthermore, probate law is different in every state and I'm sure the Aiel Probate Code differs greatly from the various wetlander statutory regimes; Sorilea may not even *have* a will.