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I would imagine it is because he is the Dragon. The forsaken are all from the AOL and none have his fighting ability after what he displayed in Maradon. The shadow's attempt to turn Rand has ended in disaster and created a true champion for the light.

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he has become so boring right now. Lost that spark. You know what you're going to get with him now.

You might get surprised in Mol

 

I would imagine it is because he is the Dragon. The forsaken are all from the AOL and none have his fighting ability after what he displayed in Maradon. The shadow's attempt to turn Rand has ended in disaster and created a true champion for the light.

Male forsaken where pretty tough Rand (as powerful as he his) was helped more then one time when facing them

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How the heck does he know that the True Power can still be channeled in the Guardian (I'm assuming he's refering to the True Power here)?

 

He has all of LTT's memories. Perhaps he understand show the Guardian works, and thus knows what it will and won't block? :)

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I would imagine it is because he is the Dragon. The forsaken are all from the AOL and none have his fighting ability after what he displayed in Maradon. The shadow's attempt to turn Rand has ended in disaster and created a true champion for the light.

 

Well, LTT certainly had a reputation of ass kicking. And we have seen some of his weaves from the Manor attack.

 

But almost single handedly destroying what a army defending a wall + good number of male channlers couldn't is accomplishment. I think what he did is something unseen except for maybe the AS Queen from Manetheran this age cycle. So I am going to have to agree that it is Dragon Power.

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I like Egwene overall. Especially the fact that she's bringing to heel Aes Sedai a century and more older than her since I hate the Aes Sedai for the most part. I hate the fact that she's picking up that AS supreme arrogance and utter refusal to consider that anybody else other than her could be right.

 

Anyway, I'm pleased with his overall arc in ToM as seen from the eyes of the other characters. Can't wait to get to see things from his perspective in AMoL.

 

I agree about Eg--she's getting more prideful even than other AS (can that be possible?), thinking she is the one person in OR out of the tower that always knows best.

 

I didn't mind that the scene between her and Rand was from her POV, it highlighted to me how much more a leader Rand is.

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New Rand was great. Certainly the best bits were where he showed up the Aes Sedai. Cadsuane with Rand Sedai and manipulating Egwene into gathering the armies for him. The Egwene handed everything on a platter of books 1 - 13 doesn't make it likely, but geez I hope in AMOL it is obvious to all the Aes Sedai that Rand outsmarted their 'brilliant Amyrlin' into doing exactly what he wanted.

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he has become so boring right now. Lost that spark. You know what you're going to get with him now.

I disagree. He's gone from being interesting like an insane version of Darth Vader to being interesting like a younger and sneakier version of Gandalf. If that makes sense.

 

Something that I think is easy to miss regarding Rand is that he's still very fallible and human. It shows in the little things - the deep breath he takes before going in to speak to Egwene, the fear he felt before speaking to Tam, putting off dealing with the Black Tower, the despair he felt upon first reaching Bandar Eban, that it took him so long to come to the aid of Maradon and that he was goaded into battle there, and the ultimatum he gave to the Borderland monarchs. He is what he's meant to be, and he's very zen about it all, but he's still human. In his POV at the end, I think that he felt like Rand circa The Great Hunt. An older, wiser version of that man, but the same man.

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As far as Rand bowing, my reading of the text made it abundantly clear (to me at least) that the major culprit in the Aiel genocide was the Aiel inability to adapt and eventual corruption in a matter of two generations.

 

On that note, back to Rand. I kinda dig the idea of a new source of power for him and I think it had a decent amount of support. I will call this power the Light. I think it acts in support of the One Power and the Pattern (will explain more later).

 

For starters, I think he used the Light against Ishamael at the Eye. He was a completely new channeler going against someone who proved he could last at least a bit against Callandor via his True Power in the third book. I have a hard time believing the Eye was uber powerful enough to insure his victory there.

 

Even if that's the case, we have Falme. Crazy stuff happened there, like the battle in the sky. And somehow Ishamael lost again.

 

In The Dragon Reborn Rand starts to really become Darth Rand, in many ways. I think here he loses the ability to use the Light due to the beginnings of his insanity. He uses Callandor and defeats Ishamael for good. But for some reason the fight isn't that much easier than it had been at the Eye or Falme.

 

He goes from being able to destroy maybe 10k-25k Trollocs by himself- with Lews Therin doing the weaving- in Knife of Dreams to obliterating an army of 100k in Towers of Midnight. We think, based on various comments on strength in the series, he's nearly maxed out by this point. Look at Taim, Logain, the earlier male Forsaken. He's stronger than all of them. I don't think he had that much room to grow, certainly not as much as he did.

 

We also know something is protecting him from the madness, like a shield of white laid over his brain. He's also performing miracles, like the apples in the first chapter.

 

I combine these and I suggest the Light is a new power, given specifically to Rand for now, that acts as a sort of magnifier of the One Power and has the opposite effect on the Pattern as the True Power (TP destroying the Pattern, the Light strengthening it, thus the apples coming and so forth). So basically Rand has a permanent angreal on him (perhaps sa'angreal level? though I kinda doubt it) in the Light. In addition to this its what allows him to drive back the touch of the Dark One, as its kinda like a mini-Creator in the world (very mini).

 

I'd be inclined to believe that Rand simply is doing most of this through ta'veren stuff, but the shield on his brain combined with his attitude towards the Aes Sedai in the Tower and his channeling feats really lead me to believe he got a powerup and its not the usual leap that male channelers have from time to time. I honestly think that, using the Light to magnify his power, he could have torn the full circle's shield apart.

 

Also, the reason he no longer needed the Cheoden Kal to act as a counter-balance to the True Power is because the Light was all he needed. Its a counter-balance on its own.

 

One last thing. He didn't just now manifest this power. It depends on his personality/mood/whatever. I think he had this power (though to a lesser degree) at the series' start. I think this could be why the Creator spoke to him, and how he managed to be so successful against Ishamael. Also, it could explain why after Ishamael was beaten in Eye the long winter ended- the Light drove it off and brought back Spring, a smaller version of what's going on around Rand at all times now. He lost in TDR, thought, due to his attitude and was something of a wilder in it prior to that.

 

Probably a crack theory, but I really like it.

Edited by Elend
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I didn't mind that the scene between [Egwene] and Rand was from her POV, it highlighted to me how much more a leader Rand is.

 

I know but I think it would have accomplished that whether from Egwene's, or Rand's, or any other Sister's (EDIT: I just realized this kinda makes it sound like I'm referring to Rand as a "Sister".... Lol). I get that we couldn't have a Rand POV because being able to hear his thoughts would most likely involve AMoL spoilers and they wanted to make him seem more..... ascendant? Or something. But to me Egwene's POV there read like, "But RAND!!!! You CAN'T break the seals!!!! Ugh! Why do I NEVER get my way! UGHN!!!! Jerkface!"

 

he has become so boring right now. Lost that spark. You know what you're going to get with him now.

 

Yea, totally saw that one man OP battle at Maradon coming. And the exchanges with Egwene and Cadsuane? PREdictable! And I can't beLIEVE how obvious his reaction to the borderlanders was. Haha... I think when/if (I hope) we see Rand's POV more often and extensively in AMoL you'll be able to see just how little you "know what your going to get with him."

 

Is Rand new fighting ability from LTT or from being the "Dragon"?

 

Kind of a redundant question since they are one and the same....

 

Does Rand = Doctor Manhattan

 

Because that is how I read all of his dialogue in this book.

 

Doc Manhattan was almost completely emotionless on the surface. How does that compare with dropping to his knees in tears in front of his father? I can kinda see the comparison in the way he talks to Cadsuane with that all knowing almost condescending tone but from a broader perspective he's completely different.

 

On that note, back to Rand. I kinda dig the idea of a new source of power for him and I think it had a decent amount of support. I will call this power the Light. I think it acts in support of the One Power and the Pattern (will explain more later)..

 

It's an interesting theory but I kinda doubt it. I think it's more likely that he just figured out how to tap his full channeling potential.

Edited by johthohar
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Guest Ishu161

I really liked Rand in this book. He has grown so much as a character that it felt weird when I went back to read EOTW. Always knew this new Jesus/Buddha Rand was coming, but to see him is awesome. I don't uderstand why would you call him boring. The whole Egwene scene was amazing. And I especially liked how he handled the borderlanders...giving them no choice at all.

I don't think much of this whole new source of power for Rand theory. The reason he is so powerful now is that now he has full control over his being. He has his memories from being Lews Therin. The reason he destroyed Choedal Kal can be attributed to his thinking that it was much too dangerous, and how close he had come to destroying the pattern himself. He already know what he needs to do at Shayol Ghul.

 

I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

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I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

 

Exactly this is very strange. I'm guessing that if he ever did use it, it would be in an absolute last resort kinda scenario, but the thing that confuses me is why would Shai'tan allow Rand to channel his essence after his transformation, which it's been implied he is aware of. Perhaps he is still hoping that maybe Rand will use it once or twice and just love it way too much and start channeling it all the time and then be corrupted by it's evil glory.

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I really liked Rand in this book. He has grown so much as a character that it felt weird when I went back to read EOTW. Always knew this new Jesus/Buddha Rand was coming, but to see him is awesome. I don't uderstand why would you call him boring. The whole Egwene scene was amazing. And I especially liked how he handled the borderlanders...giving them no choice at all.

I don't think much of this whole new source of power for Rand theory. The reason he is so powerful now is that now he has full control over his being. He has his memories from being Lews Therin. The reason he destroyed Choedal Kal can be attributed to his thinking that it was much too dangerous, and how close he had come to destroying the pattern himself. He already know what he needs to do at Shayol Ghul.

 

I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

 

I think he was imply that if it had happened earlier then he would have used TP on them.

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I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

 

 

Because he was insane. He tried to kill his father, remember...

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I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

 

Exactly this is very strange. I'm guessing that if he ever did use it, it would be in an absolute last resort kinda scenario, but the thing that confuses me is why would Shai'tan allow Rand to channel his essence after his transformation, which it's been implied he is aware of. Perhaps he is still hoping that maybe Rand will use it once or twice and just love it way too much and start channeling it all the time and then be corrupted by it's evil glory.

 

 

Rand cannot use TP anymore. This is one thing I am sure of. It's too late to turn Rand.

Edited by WhiskyJack
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I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

 

Exactly this is very strange. I'm guessing that if he ever did use it, it would be in an absolute last resort kinda scenario, but the thing that confuses me is why would Shai'tan allow Rand to channel his essence after his transformation, which it's been implied he is aware of. Perhaps he is still hoping that maybe Rand will use it once or twice and just love it way too much and start channeling it all the time and then be corrupted by it's evil glory.

 

When he said that the Guardian blocks only the One Power is right after he tells them how lucky they are they didn't pull the slap trick before his epiphany. He's talking about what he would have done before Rand 2.0. As to why the DO would still allow him access to it... I've said before, as have others, that I think his access to the TP is a result of his link to Moridin and to deny it to him the DO would also have to take it away from his Nae'blis as well. My biggest question is why he doesn't suffer the ill effects of the link from before (dizziness, nausea).

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My biggest question is why he doesn't suffer the ill effects of the link from before (dizziness, nausea).

 

Probably because it had a great deal to do with his inner turmoil and the struggle in his conscious (ie- with LTT). i think that all that is resolved, those physical manifestations will fade away. that said, since we don't really have a proper POV, we don't really know for absolutely certain that they have gone away...

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My biggest question is why he doesn't suffer the ill effects of the link from before (dizziness, nausea).

 

Probably because it had a great deal to do with his inner turmoil and the struggle in his conscious (ie- with LTT). i think that all that is resolved, those physical manifestations will fade away. that said, since we don't really have a proper POV, we don't really know for absolutely certain that they have gone away...

 

At the very least he's learned to almost completely ignore them which seems unlikely to me. And I'm pretty sure he was struggling with his conscience before the link with Moridin started manifesting which is also when he started suffering from sickness when seizing the power.

 

Something just occurred to me. It's possible he's simply always holding the OP. Is there any Asha'man POV that can confirm or refute this?

Edited by johthohar
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I did find one thing corious though. He told Tenobia that the guardian in Far Madding blocks the One Power only...the way he spoke implied that he was willing to use the True power. Why would he, after knowing that it comes from the Dark One and the harmful affects that come with its use??

 

His point was that if he'd shown up sans epiphany, they wouldn't have gotten their chance to kill him to try and survive the LB without the Dragon, because he'd have just wasted them with the True Power. He wasn't saying he would ever use it now. He was saying that Dark Rand would have, and that they were damn lucky he'd delayed their little get-together.

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My biggest question is why he doesn't suffer the ill effects of the link from before (dizziness, nausea).

 

Probably because it had a great deal to do with his inner turmoil and the struggle in his conscious (ie- with LTT). i think that all that is resolved, those physical manifestations will fade away. that said, since we don't really have a proper POV, we don't really know for absolutely certain that they have gone away...

 

At the very least he's learned to almost completely ignore them which seems unlikely to me. And I'm pretty sure he was struggling with his conscience before the link with Moridin started manifesting which is also when he started suffering from sickness when seizing the power.

 

Something just occurred to me. It's possible he's simply always holding the OP. Is there any Asha'man POV that can confirm or refute this?

It's possible. Aviandha's visions were kind of telling when she saw the Dragon's children; they were *far* more adept in the One Power than any other users, including the best of the Aes Sedai. To them, other channelers' weaves appeared badly made and clumsy. It also said that his children were holding the One Power constantly, even when sleeping. They had no reason to let it go.

 

At any rate, I think it's that light stuff that Nynaeve discovered when she tried to cure his madness that might be the bigger factor. He also no longer hears voices but has instead merged with Lews Therin, which indicates something has changed greatly.

 

I also suspect that the reason we didn't really get any Rand POVs in this book is because he now knows way too much about what he's facing, how he will have to deal with it, what his capabilities are, etc. It would be far too revealing to tell it from his perspective.

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do we know what the letter is that Tiana gives rand?

 

I thought that was the letter informing Rand of the White Tower's taking of the King of Arad Doman, or something to that tune.

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do we know what the letter is that Tiana gives rand?

 

I thought that was the letter informing Rand of the White Tower's taking of the King of Arad Doman, or something to that tune.

That's what I thought it was as well.

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My biggest question is why he doesn't suffer the ill effects of the link from before (dizziness, nausea).

 

Probably because it had a great deal to do with his inner turmoil and the struggle in his conscious (ie- with LTT). i think that all that is resolved, those physical manifestations will fade away. that said, since we don't really have a proper POV, we don't really know for absolutely certain that they have gone away...

 

At the very least he's learned to almost completely ignore them which seems unlikely to me. And I'm pretty sure he was struggling with his conscience before the link with Moridin started manifesting which is also when he started suffering from sickness when seizing the power.

 

Something just occurred to me. It's possible he's simply always holding the OP. Is there any Asha'man POV that can confirm or refute this?

 

When Rand is in the White Tower he's shielded by the Aes Sedai (double shielded by two full circles, really). They'd have noticed if he was trying to, or already touching the TS.

 

-- dwn

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