Discuss Rand

[Baelorn]

Does Rand still have the ability to channel the True Power?

Did Lews Therin ever know about the True Power, or is Rand's discovery of it in Arad Doman the first he has ever known of it?

 

Of course LTT knew what it was. He even panicked when Rand was using it because he knew.

 

As for Rand and the True Power...No. I don't think he still has access to it. When he's talking to the Borderlanders he says that is what he would have done before he had his revelation. I think his comment about the Guardians only stopping the One Power was about the Forsaken using the True Power. It would stop him but it wouldn't stop them. Afaik the Aes Sedai, and certainly normal people, don't know that some of the Forsaken have access to something that isn't the One Power.

 

I wanted to talk about Rand's super Channeling in ToM and how he was able to do it. I already posted about how skill, or dexterity with the Power, is better than brute force regardless of your strength but I think with Rand it goes further than that. I was flipping through the BWB again and found this:

 

Some few rare individuals have been found to be as strong in as many as three, or in very rare cases four, of the Powers. But since the Age of Legends no one has had great strength in all five. Even then, such individuals were very rare.

 

I think that would go a long way towards explaining what happened along with his increased knowledge of weaving in general.

[didymos]

Today I was wondering if Tam and Rand ever did some sword sparing.

 

If they have, it would have to have been extremely recent. Rand didn't even know Tam owned a sword back in tEotW.

[didymos]

Did Lews Therin ever know about the True Power, or is Rand's discovery of it in Arad Doman the first he has ever known of it?

 

Well, for one, the Bore was drilled because it was thought that a new, undivided Source had been discovered. For two, in KoD, a bit of knowledge filters in from LTT after Rand finally gets a clear image of Moridin through the link:

 

He was using their so-called True Power. It had to be that. I felt nothing, saw nothing except his stream of balefire.

 

So yeah, LTT knew enough to realize just what it was that Rand had gotten a hold of. Also, we know the TP is all over the place at Shayol Ghul, and can be felt quite easily, from Moghedien remembering her judgement by the Great Lord:

 

The True Power washed around her, so strong here that attempting to channel it would fry her to a cinder.

 

LTT may have been close enough during the Sealing that he was able to recognize it (and it's fairly likely he was, because I can't imagine the DO didn't try to stop what was happening, and his attention, and power, would have been focused on where LTT and friends were). Especially because, from Moridin's "watcher" POV in aCoS, we know the sensation of holding it is very similar:

 

Being filled with the True Power was almost like kneeling beneath Shayol Ghul, basking in the Great Lord's glory.

[Raap]

It's definitely possible that he still has access to it though. There's no really compelling reason to think otherwise, only that he'll be hesitant to use it knowing its origin. As such, I think it's possible one might see it used by Rand in the final battle somehow. Perhaps against Padan Fain.

 

Curious though, with the Dark One being a well of power just like the One Power. Does this mean that the One Power also is 'aware' and might have a will of its own?

[Hatrel]

I am thinking that now that Rand has his "Super-Glowey Protection Net" over the tainted parts of his mind, could that also filter out the DO's touch on the TP? He could retain the access through his link to Moradin but suffer none of the ill-effects due to his protection?

 

Just a thought.

 

Anyway, I agree that seeing Rand like this is great. This is what the world needed in a savior, not the cuendillar-hard person he was before. Of course, the Pattern took into account what was needed at the time and provided it. Things are coming to a head and I am so excited for aMoL!!

[Tom Sawyer]

I was wondering, does Rand have access to the True Power? One would think not, but he does hint at it in the book. When he meets Paitar, Tenobia and the others, he says if they'd met him a month ago he would have destroyed them(for slapping/punching him). They ask how he could have done that inside the Guardian, and he says that the Guardian stops the One Power, and only the One power. So either he has or had access to the True Power, or he has actually found another power that no one else is aware of.

 

He was actually talking about what would have happened if he'd come and met them earlier on when he was Darth Rand and wouldn't have fulfilled their prophecies and they'd have tried to kill him as a result. Back then, he could access the TP and could have just balefired the whole lot of them despite not being able to channel saidin. The scene didn't speak to whether or not he could (or would) still use it.

[Raap]

He was actually talking about what would have happened if he'd come and met them earlier on when he was Darth Rand and wouldn't have fulfilled their prophecies and they'd have tried to kill him as a result. Back then, he could access the TP and could have just balefired the whole lot of them despite not being able to channel saidin. The scene didn't speak to whether or not he could (or would) still use it.

Yeah, but as mentioned, there hasn't really been anything speaking against him being able to access it either. And the scene at the White Tower definitely made it look like he could simply wipe the floor with all the Aes Sedai had he wanted to, despite the circle shielding him. Whether him being able to access it in the first place was an accident caused by his confrontation/link with Moridin or simply the Dark One allowing him access, none of that should have changed. The link should still be there if that's what caused it, or if it was the Dark One who allowed him access then there's no reason he would have shut it off, since the more he uses of it the more 'evil' he should become. Thus the logical conclusion, based on the information we have, that he can likely still access it.

[AutomatedTeller]

I agree, but I kind of thought that his confidence was more that he could break free of even 13 Aes Sedai shielding him. We know that mere strength can break a shield, though at Dumai's Wells, he couldnt' break free of 6. Of course, maybe he was just absolutely sure that Egwene would let him go, I don't know.

 

I don't think he would have used the TP against the Aes Sedai, however, no matter what the provocation. That would be a disaster.

[dwn]

I agree, but I kind of thought that his confidence was more that he could break free of even 13 Aes Sedai shielding him. We know that mere strength can break a shield, though at Dumai's Wells, he couldnt' break free of 6. Of course, maybe he was just absolutely sure that Egwene would let him go, I don't know.

 

I don't think he would have used the TP against the Aes Sedai, however, no matter what the provocation. That would be a disaster.

 

The way things were going, all Rand had to do was shout 'Boo!' and every Aes Sedai within fifty paces would have fainted.

 

-- dwn

[f3llyn]

I agree, but I kind of thought that his confidence was more that he could break free of even 13 Aes Sedai shielding him. We know that mere strength can break a shield, though at Dumai's Wells, he couldnt' break free of 6. Of course, maybe he was just absolutely sure that Egwene would let him go, I don't know.

 

I don't think he would have used the TP against the Aes Sedai, however, no matter what the provocation. That would be a disaster.

 

The way things were going, all Rand had to do was shout 'Boo!' and every Aes Sedai within fifty paces would have fainted.

 

-- dwn

That would have been great. As Rand is on his way out the door he stops suddenly and smacks his hands together really loud and yells "BOO!" and every Aes Sedai in sight feints.

 

Mat would get a kick out of that.

[nolirion]

I agree, but I kind of thought that his confidence was more that he could break free of even 13 Aes Sedai shielding him. We know that mere strength can break a shield, though at Dumai's Wells, he couldnt' break free of 6. Of course, maybe he was just absolutely sure that Egwene would let him go, I don't know.

 

I don't think he would have used the TP against the Aes Sedai, however, no matter what the provocation. That would be a disaster.

 

The way things were going, all Rand had to do was shout 'Boo!' and every Aes Sedai within fifty paces would have fainted.

 

-- dwn

That would have been great. As Rand is on his way out the door he stops suddenly and smacks his hands together really loud and yells "BOO!" and every Aes Sedai in sight feints.

 

Mat would get a kick out of that.

Since the very beginning we Now the dragon is some serious shit not some half talented channeler , the dragon is the one who fight the DO.

All those creepy talk about an Rand-Neo thing iark what did you expect ?Isha itself feared the man even after the taint .

[stoper]

Love the new Rad. It was about time for him to change. Before he was just another Aes Sedai, thinking for the others as a tools, always looking for the best way to use the people around him...

Love what he said to Nynieve when she was leaving him, to go to the tower: "Dont let them ruin you." and that the best Aes Sedai he've known are the ones who others complain aren't what an Aes Sedai should be.

Love to see him as what an Aes Sedai shouldn't be. Showing emotion, showing anger, ters...

That "devine" thing around him is cool as well, makes him something more than a strong channeler.

 

Interesting way for Team Jordan to show us all Rand's chapters from someone else's POV, leaving us wondering what the new Rand is from inside.

 

The first chapter was awesome.

The scene at Maradon was really cool as well. Tho I think Team Jordan were clearly showing us that we aren't going to see that kind og thing again (Rand destroing enemye's armies on his own). I think he'll save his strengt for confrontations with Forsaken and eventualy the DO.

 

And the scene at the White Tower definitely made it look like he could simply wipe the floor with all the Aes Sedai had he wanted to, despite the circle shielding him.

Don't think that has anything to do with the TP.

To me it looks like it was about his ta'veren "power". The Aes Sedai were saying this after Rand left. The same "weakness" Galad felt when Perin was asking for his oath. I thing Rand always had that, but so far it was spoiled from his "dark side" (like during hes meeting with Tuon).

He didn't knew he could whipe the floor with all the Aes Sedai if they try to capture him, he just knew thay weren't going to do it.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I think Rand still has the potential to channel the True Power.

 

How the heck does he know that the True Power can still be channeled in the Guardian (I'm assuming he's refering to the True Power here)?

[syon]

maybe the whole scene on TV was almost a "bluff".. not sure if im right, but its implied that even a circle of 13 weak aes sedai could shield any man (guess its safe to assume they had some strong ppl shielding him), though..

-aes sedai knows hes strong

-the reputation of the "dragon" still makes them wary/scared

-the fact that they cant just keep him imprisoned or have him on their "bad" side (elaida example is still recent)

this allows him to be more condident/confortable about the whole situation... after all, who would risk going into a situation where he could be "imprisoned" without a way out.

 

i dont give this much credit, but i kinda hope he didnt become a lot more powerfull/enouth to be an "exception" (in terms of raw power and not knowladge of how to control more weaves, ways to break out of shields, etc)... so it was just an idea for this to not have happened

[MrFantasy]

What do y'all think about Aviendha's vision that Rand will kneel before the Crystal throne? I don't think that will happen, and I will be really really mad if it does. The Seanchan apparently have prophecies akin to the Kareathon Cycle that says the Dragon will bow before the Crystal throne and then the Empress will send him to fight the DO in the Last Battle, but I think those prophecies were probably modified by Imperial Seanchan people. Weren't the original prophecies made a long time before Seanchan even existed anyway?

 

I would love to see the Seanchan get really knocked around by Rand but it doesn't look like that's going to happen, as there is hardly any time before the Last Battle will begin. A truce, or "Dragon's Peace" would be equally effective until after the Last Battle, but I don't think it's worth it if Rand has to bow before Fortuona. I don't think this will happen though, considering Rand's ta'vereness, especially since his epiphany and transformation on Dragonmount.

[Sweepstreets]

Does Rand = Doctor Manhattan

 

Because that is how I read all of his dialogue in this book.

[syon]

posting this here instead of prophecy topic since its related to some posts that came before

 

i read this on wikipedia, so im not sure if its necessarely the truth... ishmael changed the prophecy form "He shall bind the nine moons to serve him" to "He shall bow to the Crystal Throne" right? wouldnt this mean that he probably wont bow to her? (since events are supposed to happen prophecys tell them, even if the interpretation aint the normally thought?)

 

ps: Is it: "He shall bind the nine moons to ser him" or just "He shall bind the nine moons"?

[FarShainMael]

posting this here instead of prophecy topic since its related to some posts that came before

 

i read this on wikipedia, so im not sure if its necessarely the truth... ishmael changed the prophecy form "He shall bind the nine moons to serve him" to "He shall bow to the Crystal Throne" right? wouldnt this mean that he probably wont bow to her? (since events are supposed to happen prophecys tell them, even if the interpretation aint the normally thought?)

 

ps: Is it: "He shall bind the nine moons to ser him" or just "He shall bind the nine moons"?

 

It's 'he shall bind the nine moons to serve him'.

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/karaethon.html

 

It's thouht that Ishamael did indeed corrupt the Seanchan version of the prophecies. Also, Aviendha's trip through the columns shows the disaster that would result if the DR did bow to the CT, which Ishy/Moridin would welcome. So yes, it seems likely that Rand will not bow (=submit) to Fortuona if the Light is to prevail.

[didymos]

What do y'all think about Aviendha's vision that Rand will kneel before the Crystal throne?

 

What are you talking about? I recall no vision she's had saying any such thing.

[johthohar]

Too lazy to go back and find all the posts I wanted to reply to. So, I'm just gonna try to address each topic I would have in more general terms.

 

I absolutely loved Rand in this book. I like the point that someone else made that until the epilogue we didn't see Rand from his own POV and even then just briefly. I think we've been headed to this "Rand 2.0" for quite some time. It was necessary to the story for him to resolve the conflicts within himself or the LB would have really sucked. And I like his total badassery since he has all LTT's memories now.

 

I think he still has access to the TP. I also think that he gained access through his link to Moridin. There was nothing in ToM to imply that the link was gone but I am curious as to how he is controlling the nausea and dizziness now. They don't seem to affect him at all anymore. Maybe he did figure out a way to break the link I guess we'll have to RAFO.

 

I liked the scene with Egwene and Rand but I hate that it was from her POV. I would have loved to know what was going on in Rand's head during that exchange. I like Egwene overall. Especially the fact that she's bringing to heel Aes Sedai a century and more older than her since I hate the Aes Sedai for the most part. I hate the fact that she's picking up that AS supreme arrogance and utter refusal to consider that anybody else other than her could be right. The seals are trashed anyway by now if you consider how fast they were failing before it's only a matter of time before they're all gone. If you try to repair an already damaged system that was flawed to begin with then the next time he's gonna break out even sooner. But I'm getting off track.

 

I think the reason he was so confident in the WT being shielded is because he now has over 400 years of experience with the OP from LTT and likely knew a way to break the shield or unravel it somehow. Also, someone mentioned they would be disappointed if he is somehow much more powerful now because of his epiphany but I think it's pretty obvious that he is. He somehow destroyed the same amount or maybe even more shadowspawn at Maradon than he, Logaine and several other channelers did in KoD. At least that's how it seemed to me. And he did it seemingly without access to any angreal or sa'angreal.

 

Anyway, I'm pleased with his overall arc in ToM as seen from the eyes of the other characters. Can't wait to get to see things from his perspective in AMoL.

[Sharaman]

posting this here instead of prophecy topic since its related to some posts that came before

 

i read this on wikipedia, so im not sure if its necessarely the truth... ishmael changed the prophecy form "He shall bind the nine moons to serve him" to "He shall bow to the Crystal Throne" right? wouldnt this mean that he probably wont bow to her? (since events are supposed to happen prophecys tell them, even if the interpretation aint the normally thought?)

 

ps: Is it: "He shall bind the nine moons to ser him" or just "He shall bind the nine moons"?

 

It's 'he shall bind the nine moons to serve him'.

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/karaethon.html

 

It's thouht that Ishamael did indeed corrupt the Seanchan version of the prophecies. Also, Aviendha's trip through the columns shows the disaster that would result if the DR did bow to the CT, which Ishy/Moridin would welcome. So yes, it seems likely that Rand will not bow (=submit) to Fortuona if the Light is to prevail.

Debatable that it was his bowing per se that caused the long-drawn-out disaster - if he did bow at all.

We don't yet know the context of any such action - you cannot assume he bowed and automatically accepted Seanchan suzerainity.

[johthohar]

What do y'all think about Aviendha's vision that Rand will kneel before the Crystal throne?

 

What are you talking about? I recall no vision she's had saying any such thing.

 

I think he's referring to the second columns trip where one of her descendants talks about Rand having submitted to the Seanchan.

[didymos]

What do y'all think about Aviendha's vision that Rand will kneel before the Crystal throne?

 

What are you talking about? I recall no vision she's had saying any such thing.

 

I think he's referring to the second columns trip where one of her descendants talks about Rand having submitted to the Seanchan.

 

They don't say that, however. What it says is that Rand bowed to Fortuona, but was still independent and came to an agreement with her: the Dragon's Peace. It also says nothing about the Crystal Throne, which is in Seanchan. The event spoken of occurred in the Westlands.

 

That's also hardly submitting. Had Rand actually submitted, the lands under his rule or protection would not have been left alone.

[stoper]

I would love to see the Seanchan get really knocked around by Rand but it doesn't look like that's going to happen, as there is hardly any time before the Last Battle will begin.

My wet dream since the first time the Seanchan appeared in the book.

No chance for this happening tho.

Shame, REAL SHAME!

 

They don't say that, however. What it says is that Rand bowed to Fortuona, but was still independent and came to an agreement with her: the Dragon's Peace. It also says nothing about the Crystal Throne, which is in Seanchan. The event spoken of occurred in the Westlands.

 

That's also hardly submitting. Had Rand actually submitted, the lands under his rule or protection would not have been left alone.

Actually:

They are inviders who forced him to bow to their Empress. Shi is considered above him. They will not keep promises they made to an inferior.

This is exactly what it says. Rand bowing to the Empress, probably under the condition to make peace with the other nations (Dragon's Peace).

But you don't give much weight to a promise your mother made to her dog.

[johthohar]

What do y'all think about Aviendha's vision that Rand will kneel before the Crystal throne?

 

What are you talking about? I recall no vision she's had saying any such thing.

 

I think he's referring to the second columns trip where one of her descendants talks about Rand having submitted to the Seanchan.

 

They don't say that, however. What it says is that Rand bowed to Fortuona, but was still independent and came to an agreement with her: the Dragon's Peace. It also says nothing about the Crystal Throne, which is in Seanchan. The event spoken of occurred in the Westlands.

 

That's also hardly submitting. Had Rand actually submitted, the lands under his rule or protection would not have been left alone.

 

Was only pointing out that I thought he was referring to that. Didn't remember the exact wording in the book and don't have it with to look up. I wasn't offering an opinion for you to pound out of me. I mean GEEZ! C'mon.... lol

 

(EDIT: Apparently the guy above me did.)