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has the perrin dream of mat been fulfilled? was the man the gholam?

 

I doubt it. Mat fighting himself could mean many things, but it didn't seem to fit any sequence in the book that I can think of. I would say it still has to happen - something in the next book.

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has the perrin dream of mat been fulfilled? was the man the gholam?

 

I doubt it. Mat fighting himself could mean many things, but it didn't seem to fit any sequence in the book that I can think of. I would say it still has to happen - something in the next book.

The pipe smoker at Shayol Ghul?

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I wonder if Graendal and Moridin misunderstood that prophecy of the shadow. It doesnt actually say that Perrin (the Fallen Blacksmith) will die. Instead, it says that the last days of his pride shall come. He has healed the rift between himself and the wolves, no longer blaming them and no longer fearing the wolf inside himself...Then the prophecy goes on to say The "Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known" shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. Up to this point, Death has never known Perrin. I also do not recall him ever having been referred to as a Broken Wolf.

 

However, Hopper could fit this description very well. He was killed in the waking world (Death has known him), and when he died in the world of dreams, that could theoretically fit with the definition of being "consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

Just a thought...

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I wonder if Graendal and Moridin misunderstood that prophecy of the shadow. It doesnt actually say that Perrin (the Fallen Blacksmith) will die. Instead, it says that the last days of his pride shall come. He has healed the rift between himself and the wolves, no longer blaming them and no longer fearing the wolf inside himself...Then the prophecy goes on to say The "Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known" shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. Up to this point, Death has never known Perrin. I also do not recall him ever having been referred to as a Broken Wolf.

 

However, Hopper could fit this description very well. He was killed in the waking world (Death has known him), and when he died in the world of dreams, that could theoretically fit with the definition of being "consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

Just a thought...

+1 Excellent deduction!

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I wonder if Graendal and Moridin misunderstood that prophecy of the shadow. It doesnt actually say that Perrin (the Fallen Blacksmith) will die. Instead, it says that the last days of his pride shall come. He has healed the rift between himself and the wolves, no longer blaming them and no longer fearing the wolf inside himself...Then the prophecy goes on to say The "Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known" shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. Up to this point, Death has never known Perrin. I also do not recall him ever having been referred to as a Broken Wolf.

 

However, Hopper could fit this description very well. He was killed in the waking world (Death has known him), and when he died in the world of dreams, that could theoretically fit with the definition of being "consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

Just a thought...

+1 Excellent deduction!

 

Hello,

 

Who do you think the "one eyed fool" and "first among vermin" is.

 

if the one eyed fool is Mat (rather obvious) so who shall he morn, Fortuna ?

 

Hard to see that when bouth of them is rather "safe" to live through the LB.

 

Who is "first among vermin", Becuase it is a prophecy from the dark side it must Rand.

 

If that is the case, do "lift his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destoy", indicate that this prophecy demand that Rand shall break the remaining seals and that Perrin is at risk if Rand do actuelly break the seals ?

 

Ronneby

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I wonder if Graendal and Moridin misunderstood that prophecy of the shadow. It doesnt actually say that Perrin (the Fallen Blacksmith) will die. Instead, it says that the last days of his pride shall come. He has healed the rift between himself and the wolves, no longer blaming them and no longer fearing the wolf inside himself...Then the prophecy goes on to say The "Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known" shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. Up to this point, Death has never known Perrin. I also do not recall him ever having been referred to as a Broken Wolf.

 

However, Hopper could fit this description very well. He was killed in the waking world (Death has known him), and when he died in the world of dreams, that could theoretically fit with the definition of being "consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

Just a thought...

+1 Excellent deduction!

 

Hello,

 

Who do you think the "one eyed fool" and "first among vermin" is.

 

if the one eyed fool is Mat (rather obvious) so who shall he morn, Fortuna ?

 

Hard to see that when bouth of them is rather "safe" to live through the LB.

 

Who is "first among vermin", Becuase it is a prophecy from the dark side it must Rand.

 

If that is the case, do "lift his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destoy", indicate that this prophecy demand that Rand shall break the remaining seals and that Perrin is at risk if Rand do actuelly break the seals ?

 

Ronneby

 

My first impression was similar to above, that they misinterpreted the prophecy. His pride has ended. Thus the prophecy is fulfilled.

 

Yes, Mat is the one-eyed fool. That would leave Rand to be the "first among vermin". Nice how the shadow tries to insult those that will beat them.

 

The "lift his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy" to me indicated that he would break the seals as we have known for some time.

 

Slayer called Perrin the "fallen Blacksmith".

 

I don't know if we can be certain who the "broken Wolf" is supposed to be. There does not seem to be enough information, but I don't think if refers to Hopper.

Edited by Tsnake

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The One-Eyed Fool is definitely Mat (I guess it could also be Uno, hehe). The mourning reference could mean that he mourns the loss of Noal, or it could refer to where the Eelfin live. They savor and relish powerful emotions (sorrow, loss) as stated by Moiraine. Therefore "halls of mourning" could simply refer to Mat going into the Tower of Ghenjei, with it's long, impossible hallways...

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Hi! This is my first post here so don’t be too hard on me :)

 

The Prophecy of Rhuidean states that only a remnant of a remnant of the Aiel people will survive the coming of the Car'a'carn.

Aviendha's experience through the ter'angreal with her descendants (especially her daughter) in the chapter 'Court of the Sun' suggests that there are 11 clan chiefs and a 'large camp' of Aiel after the last battle.

 

Does this mean that Aviendha is able to change the future by instigating a pre-emptive strike by the Aiel against the Seanchan in book 14?

 

Cheers,

Jason

Edited by Lord Jason The Invincible

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Rand/LTT is the "First Among Vermin." LTT's title during the Age of Legends was the "First Among Servants" and we all know the Shadow's feeling towards those that call themselves Aes Sedai.

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The fallen wolf or broken wolf or whatever is probably Lan. He seems to be destined for death and death has known him for some time now.

 

The first among vermin is probably the Amyrilan, which i believe means first among servants.

 

I always took the remnant of a remnant to mean that Rand will ensure the survival of the Gaishan. They were a mutated form of the Daishan Aiel.

 

The one eyed wonder is Mat in the tower of Ghenji. Him fighting himself, I think, means he will have to make some hard choices about Olver. The kids always reminded me of Mat, he had the same things in his bag when he was first found that Mat carried with him. They are quite similar, I don't know if Mat will be forced to kill him or take Olver off the path he is on now, but he will definitely have to step up and save this kid.

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Rand/LTT is the "First Among Vermin." LTT's title during the Age of Legends was the "First Among Servants" and we all know the Shadow's feeling towards those that call themselves Aes Sedai.

 

I agree, doesn´t it also imply that Rand is wrong about breaking the seals at this point becuase it´s one step to the fulfillment of this prophecy ?

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I don't think Hopper is the wolf. My first thought was that he was, but the prophecy implies that the all this happens on the same day, the day that Rand breaks the seals.

 

Also, I don't really see why Hopper dying would cause all men to mourn.

 

Could it be that the Broken Wolf is SLAYER, and that the mourning will be for those who mourn Isam and Luc? I don't think so, either...

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The Halls of Mourning might be a reference to the White Tower. We know the seanchan plans another attack, one that has a strong possibility of being far more brutal than their first, and thus merit the use of the word 'mourning'. And we have good reason to believe Mat is headed there, to get the Horn of Valere.

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

 

I was under the impression that her dream was about what CURRENTLY was going on, which was Moridin rising highest, and this is further proven because the amount of towers that were still standing was equivalent to the amount of Forsaken still alive.

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

 

I certainly hope not. Graendal is fairly boring. Moridin is interesting. I'd be glad to finally see her bite the dust for good. I thought Asmodean was much more interesting than her, and Aginor as well. Graendal is (or should be) done; I'm looking forward to Demandred and Moridin.

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

 

I was under the impression that her dream was about what CURRENTLY was going on, which was Moridin rising highest, and this is further proven because the amount of towers that were still standing was equivalent to the amount of Forsaken still alive.

 

Actually, your logic favors my interpretation more, I think. If you read that section, the towers all crumble, and the one that rises the tallest crumbles LAST in order. Moridin obviously hasn't had a near death experience, or made the DO angry, since the deaths of the other Forsaken, but Graendal seemingly has, due to her near escape from the balefire and DO's subsequent anger.

Edited by thebeastwithin

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I wonder if Graendal and Moridin misunderstood that prophecy of the shadow. It doesnt actually say that Perrin (the Fallen Blacksmith) will die. Instead, it says that the last days of his pride shall come. He has healed the rift between himself and the wolves, no longer blaming them and no longer fearing the wolf inside himself...Then the prophecy goes on to say The "Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known" shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. Up to this point, Death has never known Perrin. I also do not recall him ever having been referred to as a Broken Wolf.

 

However, Hopper could fit this description very well. He was killed in the waking world (Death has known him), and when he died in the world of dreams, that could theoretically fit with the definition of being "consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

Just a thought...

+1 Excellent deduction!

 

Hello,

 

Who do you think the "one eyed fool" and "first among vermin" is.

 

if the one eyed fool is Mat (rather obvious) so who shall he morn, Fortuna ?

its obiously fortuana he lost his eye at the end of tom

Hard to see that when bouth of them is rather "safe" to live through the LB.

 

Who is "first among vermin", Becuase it is a prophecy from the dark side it must Rand.

 

If that is the case, do "lift his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destoy", indicate that this prophecy demand that Rand shall break the remaining seals and that Perrin is at risk if Rand do actuelly break the seals ?

 

Ronneby

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Graendal's going to be lucky if she merely ends up in a mindtrap.

 

Girl was trying to *flee* ie. sit out the Last Battle on a parallel world. Also known as *treason to the Big Guy*

 

She's utterly, completely screwed.

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

but in the Glossary it says that the Towers of Midnight are 13 towers and that they will be used in greatest need, so what if her dream was about towers for real and not an metaphor. But i really don't understand the whole seanchan towers of midnight thing... but with her dream and in the dark prophecies that makes twice they would be mentioned so i don't know

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

but in the Glossary it says that the Towers of Midnight are 13 towers and that they will be used in greatest need, so what if her dream was about towers for real and not an metaphor. But i really don't understand the whole seanchan towers of midnight thing... but with her dream and in the dark prophecies that makes twice they would be mentioned so i don't know

 

Because, among other things, the towers are empty, and thus irrelevant to the battling factions, and more importantly, because we know from the Word of God that we ain't seeing any action in Seanchan in the last book.

Edited by Mr. Micawber

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Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

but in the Glossary it says that the Towers of Midnight are 13 towers and that they will be used in greatest need, so what if her dream was about towers for real and not an metaphor. But i really don't understand the whole seanchan towers of midnight thing... but with her dream and in the dark prophecies that makes twice they would be mentioned so i don't know

 

Because, among other things, the towers are empty, and thus irrelevant to the battling factions, and more importantly, because we know from the Word of God that we ain't seeing any action in Seanchan in the last book.

well there we go haha i did not know that i wonder what chair someone is going to be sitting in that the owner gets mad if its not in seanchan... i have no life

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First time poster, hoorah.

 

Anyway, in response to the "one eyed fool" and the "first among vermin":

I interpreted this to mean Mat and Perrin. We all know what the wolves think of the Shadow and Shadowspawn; their hate is immense. I assumed that the Shadow thought of wolves as "vermin", because a) wolves hate them b) they're "small" and "unimportant" and "disgusting". The Shadow cares about men, like Rand and the AS, but it would view the wolves as only "vermin".

 

Since Perrin is the ta'veren wolfbrother, I assumed that "first among vermin" meant Perrin, not Rand.

 

However, the "first among vermin"/"First Among Servants" implication for Rand is also convincing... So I'm not sure which to believe.

What do y'all think?

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