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That's in memory of Hopper,the Hammer is named after what Hopper first said to Perrin in the Wolfdream, hopefully as Hopper died away from Slayer he avoids being made a Shadowbrother[Darkhound]

 

Yeah, but the question was what objects have wolf images and suchlike, not why they have them. The hammer has one.

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I don't know why but when the words first among vermin come to wording I think of Padin Fain.

 

Huh... The at prophecy at the end lists three characters that we typically assume are the three ta'veren, or as the recent forum discussions have indicated, that the three are on the "Dragon's Team" (Rodel, Bashere, etc.,). I never thought that the prophecy could be used to refer to indeterminate characters like Fain. I suppose the prophecies could refer to Darkfriends and other agents of the Dark One too...

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I don't know why but when the words first among vermin come to wording I think of Padin Fain.

 

Huh... The at prophecy at the end lists three characters that we typically assume are the three ta'veren, or as the recent forum discussions have indicated, that the three are on the "Dragon's Team" (Rodel, Bashere, etc.,). I never thought that the prophecy could be used to refer to indeterminate characters like Fain. I suppose the prophecies could refer to Darkfriends and other agents of the Dark One too...

 

Seeing as how it is a Dark Prophcey, it is more probable that it does refer to Fain, who is one of the main rogue Darkfriends in the seires and the only Darkfriend that has been around since book one.

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There is no way First Among Vermin refers to Fain. They throw in insults in their prophesies, just like Mat is called a Fool and Perrin is said to have Fallen (as a blacksmith yes, but he arose as a great leader), First Among Vermin is a play on the First Among Servants title -> Rand.

 

Anyway, I want to know more about what impression people got from Egwene's dreams. I think the snake eating fledgelings is not Mesaana as Egwene thinks, but refers to the goinngs on at the black tower. And I believe the ropes Rand will cut represents the freeing of all damane.

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There is no way First Among Vermin refers to Fain. They throw in insults in their prophesies, just like Mat is called a Fool and Perrin is said to have Fallen (as a blacksmith yes, but he arose as a great leader), First Among Vermin is a play on the First Among Servants title -> Rand.

 

Anyway, I want to know more about what impression people got from Egwene's dreams. I think the snake eating fledgelings is not Mesaana as Egwene thinks, but refers to the goinngs on at the black tower. And I believe the ropes Rand will cut represents the freeing of all damane.

Fool is not an insult -it's a reference to the tarot card which, in turn references the Medieval version of the Seanchan Truthspeaker.

We don't know what "Fallen" means in this context.

Vermin is not necessarily an insult either since GLoD uses vermin a lot.

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alright i'm pointing out 2 prophecies, but 1st whats this about "Egwenes 13 dark towers"  i don't recall that??

 

 

 

 

remnant of a remnant

 

i agree that the remnant doesn't need to be small, but i do think that it implies the Aiel must be broken twice, which means this prophecy isn't fulfilled yet.  the 2nd breaking will occur when Avi tells them about what she saw in the 2nd trip through the ter'angle, and that for the Aiel to survive as a people after the LB they must return to the WoL.

 

 

 

 

Prophecy's of the Shadow

 

this one i will take bit by bit.  but keep in mind, these prophecies were most likely made by one who had thrown there lot in with the DO and hoped for his success.  i say this because of the wording used in the prophecy itself.

 

 

 

 

Low, it shall come upon the world that the prison of the Greatest One shall grow weak, like the limbs of those who crafted it.

 

this has already happened and has continued to happen since EotW

 

Once again, His glorious cloak shall smother the Pattern of all things, and the Great Lord shall stretch forth His hand to claim what is His.

 

this speaks of the bubbles of evil, of the DO being able to once again touch the patter and effect it.  this has happened.

 

The rebellious nations shall be laid barren, their children caused to weep.  There shall be none but Him, and those who have turned their eyes to His majesty.

 

This is of the future of what will happen if the DO wins.  already the lands are turning barren, but i think once Rand breaks the seals it will be like a Nuclear bomb going off where the blight extends outwards and encompasses all of the lands quickly.  The only ones to rejoice in this are Darkfriends and those who embrace the DO.

 

 

 

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of the mourning,

 

This is Mat, he's been referred to as a fool during the entire novel (i think back in tDR Ishmael referred to him as the fool when finding out the identity's of those statues/ta'verin)  matt is also One-eyed now.  many of you say the halls of mourning refer to the ToG, i disagree.  this implies that Matt is already One-eyed as he is traveling the halls, and we haven't heard anything called the hall of mourning yet.   

 

could "the Halls of Mourning" refer to some place over in the Senchan land??  either way, this has yet to occur, as the prophecy implies it must happen on the same day as the next two lines.

 

 

 

 

and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy,

 

This is where you must think in terms of the DO.  He has repeatedly called his Forsaken Vermin & Worms and other names such as these.  First among them implies Nae'Bliss, who is Mordin.  This could also imply Shaidar Haron as he is above the Forsaken and the literal right hand of the DO.  i happen to think this leans more towards Mordin.

 

"brings freedom to Him who will Destroy" this gives me pause so i shall dissect it further.  first this implys that whoever "he who will Destroy" is imprisoned some how.  my first thought is the DO, but the title doesn't fit; not when it describes the DO with "Lord of the Evening" and "Greatest One" and "Great One".  the title "He who will Destroy" doesn't have enough reverence and devotion attached to it to imply the DO.  so my thoughts turned to 4 possible scenarios:

 

1 - the Ghulam.  it's trapped in the blackness, literally. perhaps Mordin knows a way to free the creature, some control method that allows him to locate and recover it.  the "death" felt to arbitrary imo, especially for such a foe as this.

 

2 - something new.  perhaps mordin has another weapon we havent seen yet hidden in a stayis(sp) box and is going to unleash it.  considering the dwindling numbers of the Forsaken, this is pluasable.

 

3 - Fain/Mordeth. Mordeth is sort of trapped by fain (consumed more like it) and Fain is "trapped" by the bounds the DO placed on him which compelled him to hunt Rand for so long.  perhaps Mordin free's him from these constraints which allow him to run amuck.

 

4 - machinshin.  we dont know truly if this beast is dead, it's entire being is to destroy.  we assume it's dead, but since we havent seen the Ways since saidin has been cleansed, we can't know for sure.  perhaps Mordin frees it from the confines of the Ways.

 

 

 

 

the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.  yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall & be consumed by the Midnight Towers.

 

at the same time Matt walks the halls of mourning, and Mordin releases the Destroyer; something will happen with Perrin.  The mention of Pride trips me up, because Perrin is humble; yet one thing is certain, it is the death of his Pride which is coming.  could this mean Faile, the Two Rivers, the Hammer he just forged; all of these Perrin has great Pride in.

 

"Yea" i'm thinking means "He", and therefor refers back to Perrin. and as for the Broken Wolf, its Noam.  I thought Hopper at first, but unless Perrin is able to bring Hopper back, it wont fit.  the name itself is sort of fitting, as Noam is actually a human which has chosen to live fully as a wolf, and taking into account the images he sent Perrin, he certainty is broken.  Perrin also believes him to be dead in the waking world.

 

i'm unsure what the Midnight Towers are; is it a place?? is it death?? is it another name for the ToG??  whatever it is, it seems the fall there (in battle perhaps) and it consumes them somehow for the benefit of the Shadow.  Mordin thought this meant Death, he also assume that using a Dream Spike would help achieve this.  the only Tower which is Black (the color of Midnight) is the one where Taim is, and there is a Dream Spike already in place.   maybe this is the place it's referring to?

 

 

 

 

And his destruction shall bring fear & sorrow to the hearts of men, & shall shake the very will itself.

 

Mordin interpreted destruction as meaning Death; but as we know, Destruction for Perrin could also mean the Wolf consuming him much as it did for Noam.  though this conflict seems to be put to rest finally, it is another option which leaves Perrin alive.

 

 

 

 

And then, shall the Lord of the Evening come.  And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall wake our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for one Him will we praise.

 

after the seals are broken, the DO will finally be able to touch the world.  this entire passage speaks of possession.  if you think to the Black Tower, and the Aiel at the end; one thing that was remarked upon was that their eyes were lifeless, that they had changed.  i also think of the animals which are used as "the Dark ones Eyes" and how the DO is able to direct their actions the weaker his prison becomes.  this is what will happen to all the Dark Friends, to the Dread lords, to the Trollocs.  he will be all of them, yet none of them as the battle rages on.

 

i believe that when he touches the world and battles Rand, it will be using the body of one who he deems most worthy and most twisted/tainted/strong/foul/corrupted.  i've narrowed it down to 3 people:

 

1 - Shaidar Haran who is the right hand of the DO and whom i believe already has part of the Do in him.

 

2 - Mordin who is Nea-Bliss, the most powerful of his channelers.

 

3 - Fain who is the foulest most corrupted creature in the world right now.  who wants nothing more to do than to kill Rand and the Do and who is on his way to Shayol Ghul.

 

i'm leaning more toward Fain, if you think back to the prologue and what he did to those trollocs.

 

 

 

 

And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful.  Let the screams begin, O followers for the Shadow.  Beg for your destruction.

 

Rand/LTT is the Broken Champion, he is the only foe whom the DO must face and LTT is Broken while Rand is the Champion.  the "spilling his blood" gives me pause.  i'm inclined to think it means death, but then i recall another prophecy "And he shall spill his blood on the slopes of Dragon Mount". does this indicate another prophecy twisted by the hand of Ishmeal (like the Senchan prophecy) to ensure the dragons defeat in the next LB.  Whether it means the death of Rand, or even allowing that wound in his side to go unhealed before the last battle; it is certain that the Darkness refers to the DO winning and destroying the pattern for good.  

 

the last sentence is playing off the first in this paragraph, for when he takes their skin, lips & eyes they will feel immense agony and scream, it will be the destruction of themselves and their world.  yet for the DO to win, this must be done and is why they should sing for it.

 

Edited by Red2111

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My money is on Slayer/Luc being the broken wolf. The wolves all said he hunts like one. He knows Moridin (death).

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My money is on Slayer/Luc being the broken wolf. The wolves all said he hunts like one. He knows Moridin (death).

 

You've got to keep "the Broken Wolf" in context.

 

He "shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers." His "destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

Slayer is, first of all, unknown to almost everybody. Perrin is really the only one who has encountered him. Nynaeve saw him during her Accepted test but has no idea who he is. So, his destruction would not cause all of mankind "fear and sorrow" nor "shake their very will itself."

 

It's not Slayer.

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but it talks about both of them (the Fallen Blacksmith/Perrin & the Broken Wolf/Noam) falling & becoming consumed by the Tower of Midnight.  so it's not singular but two separate individuals.

 

 

 

 

because the Broken Wolf has known Death, it means he is already dead and not in the land of the living.   there fore the only persons destruction which  "shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself." is the Fallen Blacksmith since Perrin is still in the Land of the Living, and because we know his death will have an effect on the Two Rivers lads (remnants of manetherin) and the outcome of the last battle seeing as he's a ta'verin, it makes since it applies to Perrin.

 

 

 

 

that & Mordin already told us that bit applied to Perrin, which is why Mordin says Perrin must die.

 

 

 

Edited by Red2111

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but it talks about both of them (the Fallen Blacksmith/Perrin & the Broken Wolf/Noam) falling & becoming consumed by the Tower of Midnight.  so it's not singular but two separate individuals.

 

 

 

From the Light side, it talks about the One-Eyed Fool, First among Vermin, The Fallen Blacksmith's pride, and the Broken Wolf. The Broken Wolf is the only one who falls and is consumed by the Midnight Towers.

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I tend to interpret this prophecy using a future past tense... as in the broken wolf is a wolf that is to die and then be consumed by the midnight towers.. I am not sure of Min's viewings of Perrin but in this context it could be Perrin...

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I keep mentioning this, but nobody wants to listen to me, so here's more detail.

 

Mat is the Broken Wolf

 

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

First step is identifying who the Broken Wolf is and then figure the rest of the Prophecy.

 

Odin

By now we should not need to go into the details of why Mat is Odin (or rather an archetype of him). The similarities are endless, but there's an aspect of Odin that's little discussed, particularly in regards to the Wheel of Time. Odin has always been associated with wolves.

 

Odin has two wolves named Geri and Freki who sit at his table. Then there's the wolf Fenrir who bites off Odin's hand at Ragnarok. One of Odin's names is Hildolfr, which means Battle Wolf. Then we have the wolf medallion to further cement the link between Mat and wolves.

 

Finally we have the line "whom Death has known", which definitely applies to Mat. He was hanged once and died. He's also intimately familiar with death due to the memories of other men rattling around in his head. He's also definitely been Broken what with missing an eye and all.

 

To summarize the reasons for Mat as the Broken Wolf

 

1.) Mat is Odin. Odin has long been associated with wolves

2.) Mat has a wolf-head's medallion which is vital to the story. Another link to wolves.

3.) Mat has definitely known Death through his own hanging as well as his memories.

4.) Mat is Broken through the loss of his eye.

 

So what do the prophecies actually mean? I submit that the prophecy about the Broken Wolf has nothing at all to do with the Last Battle.

 

The Glossary to TOM indicates that there are ancient Towers in Seanchan that are called the Midnight Towers. It's to these towers that the royal family of Seanchan will retire to in time of need according to legend. So here's my timeline.

 

After the Last Battle Mat and his blushing new bride Tuon, go back to Seanchan to rule the land there. Tuon, influenced by Mat and her own experiences on the Continent, seeks to make major reforms in Seanchan. First of these reforms is the abolishment of da'mane with the revelation that sul'dam can be taught to channel.

 

Unfortunately this knowledge backfires. Just like the revelation of the Aiel's ancestory fragments that society, leading to civil war, the knowledge of sul'dam being closet channelers fragments the Seanchan society. after all the basis of their power is built around chaining women who can channel. This leads to a civil war in Seanchan, which the forces of Tuon start to lose and are forced to take refuge in the Midnight Towers, where Mat and Tuon are killed.

 

How does this bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men? Well we saw the glimpse of the future from Aviendha. Without the influences of Mat and Tuon the Seanchan launch a full scale attack on Randland, leading to that very, very bleak future.

 

Here's an image of Odin with the two ravens and the two wolves that was drawn in 1882 by the artist Carl Doepler.

 

Odin_der_GC3B6ttervater.jpg

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there are glaring flaws to your argument smiley.

 

 

 

 

first off, matt's already mentioned in the prophecy as the "One Eyed Fool"  and like i said all three events in that middle paragraph happen at the same time, hence the usage of "In that Day" referring to both Rand breaking the seals and what Mat, Mordin & Perrin must be doing.  all at the same time.  Matt cannot be in two =places at once, nor can he enter T'A'R.

 

2nd - it's a FOX HEAD medallion, it's even called so.  there is a major difference between a Fox & Wolf.  It has a Fox on it because of where he got it from.

 

3rd - nothing about Matts character is either Broken, nor has he even been associated with Wolves.  the loss of his eye does not mean he is broken in mind/body/spirit.  he can still fight, his body is still functional and his spirit isn't dampened one bit.

 

4th - to know death, one must remember experiencing Death.  while those memories are in his head, they are not HIM in past lives.  and with the hanging, he doesn't remember the death, only blacking out then Rand cutting him down.  he knows he died, yes, but he has not known Death (as in the Grim Reaper)  and i'd argue that he didn't truely die, but was only near death, as all it took to revive him was cutting him down.  there is a big difference.  to know death one must have died and gone to the beyond (such as Hopper).  also for Perrin & the Broken Wolf to fight & fall together, it must be in T'A'R, for that is where some soul (like that of wolfs and wolfbrothers) go to wait rebirth, and matt can't get in T'A'R.

 

 

 

 

as for odin ... how exactly is Matt like a viking god??  if anything, that god has more of the characteristics akin to the Aiel.

 

 

 

 

From the Light side, it talks about the One-Eyed Fool, First among Vermin, The Fallen Blacksmith's pride, and the Broken Wolf. The Broken Wolf is the only one who falls and is consumed by the Midnight Towers.

 

both the Fallen Balcksmith (Yae) and the Broken wolf fall and become consumed by the Midnight Tower.  notice the usage of the word And, with the word Yae coming after the mention of the Fallen Blacksmith.

 

 

 

 

Yae = He  same as Thou = You

 

 

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broken wolf = slayer/luc.   now that is an interesting concept.   just because both the Fallen Blacksmith and the Broken Wolf fall and become consumed by the Midnight Tower, doesn't mean they are working together.

 

 

 

 

perrin will be focusing on killing Slayer during the last battle, Slayer has led perrin to the ToG before and enticed him to follow ...  i wonder if the snakes & foxes are able to effect the dream world as well ...  and that tower is black, maybe it's not in reference to the 'chan towers but an older name for the ToG.   especially since the prophecy is "Midnight Tower" implying a singular tower.

 

 

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as for odin ... how exactly is Matt like a viking god??  if anything, that god has more of the characteristics akin to the Aiel.

 

There is actually an insane amount of similarities, look up the wheel of time wiki. Agree that he isn't the broken wolf though.

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there are glaring flaws to your argument smiley.

 

 

 

 

first off, matt's already mentioned in the prophecy as the "One Eyed Fool"  and like i said all three events in that middle paragraph happen at the same time, hence the usage of "In that Day" referring to both Rand breaking the seals and what Mat, Mordin & Perrin must be doing.  all at the same time.  Matt cannot be in two =places at once, nor can he enter T'A'R.

 

There's no reason Mat can't be both, and there's no indication in the timeline that the Broken Fool bit is happening at the same time as the halls of mourning bit (which in my opinion has already happened with Mat going to the Tower of Ghenji)

 

 

3rd - nothing about Matts character is either Broken, nor has he even been associated with Wolves.  the loss of his eye does not mean he is broken in mind/body/spirit.  he can still fight, his body is still functional and his spirit isn't dampened one bit.

 

I'd say losing an eye definitely qualifies one to be considered Broken physically.

 

4th - to know death, one must remember experiencing Death.  while those memories are in his head, they are not HIM in past lives.  and with the hanging, he doesn't remember the death, only blacking out then Rand cutting him down.  he knows he died, yes, but he has not known Death (as in the Grim Reaper)  and i'd argue that he didn't truely die, but was only near death, as all it took to revive him was cutting him down.  there is a big difference.  to know death one must have died and gone to the beyond (such as Hopper).  also for Perrin & the Broken Wolf to fight & fall together, it must be in T'A'R, for that is where some soul (like that of wolfs and wolfbrothers) go to wait rebirth, and matt can't get in T'A'R.

 

why does he have to remember Death to have known it? He definitely has memories of dieing--there are several POVs where his past memories end up dead, and he has known Death. If the hanging didn't count as him dying that bolsters my theory even more, since Mat still has to die.

 

The Prophecy doesn't indicate that the Fallen Blacksmith and the Broken Wolf will be fighting together, other than the phrase "In that day", which is a generic timeframe kind of thing.

 

 

as for odin ... how exactly is Matt like a viking god??  if anything, that god has more of the characteristics akin to the Aiel.

 

Do I really need to list the reasons that Mat is Odin? Lets see, hanging from a tree to gain wisdom, losing an eye, the hat, the spear, the two ravens named Memory and Thought, need I go on?

 

 

 

 

From the Light side, it talks about the One-Eyed Fool, First among Vermin, The Fallen Blacksmith's pride, and the Broken Wolf. The Broken Wolf is the only one who falls and is consumed by the Midnight Towers.

 

both the Fallen Balcksmith (Yae) and the Broken wolf fall and become consumed by the Midnight Tower.  notice the usage of the word And, with the word Yae coming after the mention of the Fallen Blacksmith.

 

The Fallen Blacksmith is not consumed. His pride is fallen. And the word is Yea, not Yae. Yea is an archaic form of Yes and is commonly used in prophecy as a lead off. It absolutely does not mean You. There's no such word as Yae.

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I skipped a lot of pages, so I apologize if this was answered... but was Mat "giving up half of the light of the world to save the world" losing his eye? More specifically, because he can only see half of what he could before? I remember his eye being on the balance scale, but I didn't think that it was related to half of the light.

 

And also, are we sure the 13 tower dream is not the Towers of Midnight, but the Forsaken?

 

Lastly, why was this book even named Towers of Midnight? I don't get it. They add some dusty landmark in Seanchan in the glossary and that's it?

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Please note that the language is not clear on wether it is the destruction of the wolf or the destruction by the wolf that will bring "fear and sorrow ..."

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I skipped a lot of pages, so I apologize if this was answered... but was Mat "giving up half of the light of the world to save the world" losing his eye? More specifically, because he can only see half of what he could before? I remember his eye being on the balance scale, but I didn't think that it was related to half of the light.

 

And also, are we sure the 13 tower dream is not the Towers of Midnight, but the Forsaken?

 

Lastly, why was this book even named Towers of Midnight? I don't get it. They add some dusty landmark in Seanchan in the glossary and that's it?

I think because

a) it sounded awesome

b) Those towers of midnight refer to the forsaken, has to be for there to be 13 then one 'crumbles down and rebuilt higher then before' (Ishmeal dying then getting reborn as nae'blis). The dream and the fact 2 more of the remaining forsaken get owned as well as Graendel gets punished. 3 in one book (Although technically Aran'gar died last book and we just didn't know it until now) is probably the connection.

c) Ok, lots of b) was just grasping at straws, I am not really sure why they did either unless the murderer on the throne of seanchan and the one that controls the red ships is Damandred. The towers of midnight in Seanchan are mentioned for a paragraph at the start of chapter 1.

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... unless the murderer on the throne of seanchan and the one that controls the red ships is Damandred. The towers of midnight in Seanchan are mentioned for a paragraph at the start of chapter 1.

 

In TOM ch.1 a murderer rules Seandar.

TOM Glossary - "Legend has it that in time of dire need, the Imperial family will return to the Towers of Midnight and "right that which is wrong.""

The Imperial family is Fortuona and Mat. To rule Seandar and fulfill the legend Fortuona and Mat will need to go back, occupy the towers and from there defeat the 'murderer' to "right that which is wrong."

 

You could also say that the 'murderer' and his occupying forces would then be consumed by the Midnight Towers.

From the dark prophecy - "Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

In this case the Broken Wolf is the 'murderer'. His destruction may well bring fear and sorrow if some of the population believes his claim to the throne and his defeat is seen as a civil war.

 

(Now I just have to figure out a way to link Demandred to the Broken Wolf... :biggrin: )

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Please note that the language is not clear on wether it is the destruction of the wolf or the destruction by the wolf that will bring "fear and sorrow ..."

 

If taken in isolation, maybe, but the former interpretation is very much favored given the fact that "he shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers" precedes the "his destruction" part. Given that, if we go with the latter interpretation, that would then suggest that the Broken Wolf destroys for the Shadow. Either way, not good for the Light.

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as for odin ... how exactly is Matt like a viking god??  if anything, that god has more of the characteristics akin to the Aiel.

 

There is actually an insane amount of similarities, look up the wheel of time wiki. Agree that he isn't the broken wolf though.

 

Yup. Mat has characteristics of both Odin and Loki. Which is really weird.

 

No, that prophesy does not talk about both the Fallen Blacksmith and the Broken Wolf falling and being consumed by the Midnight Towers.

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come.

 

One-Eyed Fool = Mat.

First Among Vermin = Rand.

Fallen Blacksmith = Perrin. And, it's his pride that comes to its last days, not his life. We've already seen that. His reverse snobbery, his refusal to become a lord and a leader has been put away and he has accepted his role in this melodrama. He has stopped being too proud to lead.

 

Now comes the other important part:

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

Note the use of the singular pronoun - his destruction - not their destruction. The wolf and the blacksmith are two different people.

Edited by Bob T Dwarf

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Yup. Mat has characteristics of both Odin and Loki. Which is really weird.

 

Not really. Loki and Odin were sort of pals in Norse myth, and had a number of common characteristics, and RJ was fond of syncretism in WoT. You want weird? Loki gave birth to Odin's horse. His eight-legged horse. That's weird.

Edited by didymos

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Yup. Mat has characteristics of both Odin and Loki. Which is really weird.

 

Not really. Loki and Odin were sort of pals in Norse myth, and had a number of common characteristics, and RJ was fond of syncretism in WoT. You want weird? Loki gave birth to Odin's horse. His eight-legged horse. That's weird.

 

I think he sired it. But he's also the one who found mistletoe and gave it to Hoder, knowing ( or at least hoping really hard ) that it would lead to the death of Balder.

 

Depending on who you read about Loki, he is either the god of simple mischief or the god of evil. Depending on who you read for Balder, His mother Frigga either brought him back to life after three days, or he didn't revive until after Ragnarok and the subsequent rebirth of the world.

 

Either way, Mat is a two-edged sword.

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Yup. Mat has characteristics of both Odin and Loki. Which is really weird.

 

Not really. Loki and Odin were sort of pals in Norse myth, and had a number of common characteristics, and RJ was fond of syncretism in WoT. You want weird? Loki gave birth to Odin's horse. His eight-legged horse. That's weird.

 

I think he sired it.

 

No, really: he turned into a mare, hooked up with a stallion, and gave birth to Sleipnir.

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