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I still find it a bit weird that Asmodean would be that scared of Graendal, and that Graendal wouldnt wear a disguise. But eh, its done, mystery is solved. Time to move on :P

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I still find it a bit weird that Asmodean would be that scared of Graendal, and that Graendal wouldnt wear a disguise. But eh, its done, mystery is solved. Time to move on :P

 

Mystery isn't completely solved... we still don't conclusively know how the "where" he was killed made it impossible for the DO to transmigrate his soul. We have some good guesses... but until someone spells it out, it's not over.

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I thought so too, but one thing I find somewhat confusing is that both Moridin and SH now seem somewhat critical of her for killing Asmo. This is odd, because up until now they seemed anything but displeased with anything that Graendal had done. So what's the deal? Do they think that she destroyed Mesaana on purpose and are they beginning to think that Asmo as a traitor was just Graendal's cover story? I guess her propensity for killing other Chosen would call her motivation for killing Asmo into question.

 

I found the blame for Mesaana's death a bit odd really. But taken into the context of three of her peers/rivals dying through her actions SH and Moridin would have cause for concern on her motivation in their deaths and in particular Asmo's. I found the blame for Mesaanas 'death' odd because she still lost in a straight fight with Eg which I assumed SH/Moridin would know. The only one left to report the news of what had happened - Alviarin - didnt witness the death and had scarpered with her other B.A. mates before the mind-melting showdown. So they would have reported that they could not move out of the white tower and ~SH would have known it to be the dreamspike causing this, but would not have known why it was there and assumed G was working to her own ends.

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I still find it a bit weird that Asmodean would be that scared of Graendal, and that Graendal wouldnt wear a disguise. But eh, its done, mystery is solved. Time to move on :P

 

Mystery isn't completely solved... we still don't conclusively know how the "where" he was killed made it impossible for the DO to transmigrate his soul. We have some good guesses... but until someone spells it out, it's not over.

 

And I hoping now that the mystery is solved, now that we have read and found out, that Brandon will do just that. I've already sent him and email to that affect and when and if he answers I will share his reply.

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Can a damane put on the bracelet attached to another damane's a'dam?

 

If that is possible, and two damane wear each other's a'dam bracelets, would they be able to channel? Could they form a daisy-chain up to the maximum limit for a circle of women?

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Can a damane put on the bracelet attached to another damane's a'dam?

 

If that is possible, and two damane wear each other's a'dam bracelets, would they be able to channel? Could they form a daisy-chain up to the maximum limit for a circle of women?

Or that could reap the fabric of time and space

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I thought so too, but one thing I find somewhat confusing is that both Moridin and SH now seem somewhat critical of her for killing Asmo. This is odd, because up until now they seemed anything but displeased with anything that Graendal had done. So what's the deal? Do they think that she destroyed Mesaana on purpose and are they beginning to think that Asmo as a traitor was just Graendal's cover story? I guess her propensity for killing other Chosen would call her motivation for killing Asmo into question.

 

I found the blame for Mesaana's death a bit odd really. But taken into the context of three of her peers/rivals dying through her actions SH and Moridin would have cause for concern on her motivation in their deaths and in particular Asmo's. I found the blame for Mesaanas 'death' odd because she still lost in a straight fight with Eg which I assumed SH/Moridin would know. The only one left to report the news of what had happened - Alviarin - didnt witness the death and had scarpered with her other B.A. mates before the mind-melting showdown. So they would have reported that they could not move out of the white tower and ~SH would have known it to be the dreamspike causing this, but would not have known why it was there and assumed G was working to her own ends.

 

Graendal lost control of the dreamspike she was given. Even if she didn't intend for Mesaana to be squished, it was Graendal's incompetence that kept Mesaana and the Black Ajah from executing their plan to kill/capture Egwene.

 

-- dwn

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Can a damane put on the bracelet attached to another damane's a'dam?

 

If that is possible, and two damane wear each other's a'dam bracelets, would they be able to channel? Could they form a daisy-chain up to the maximum limit for a circle of women?

Or that could reap the fabric of time and space

 

Channelling weirdness aside, given the feedback of physical sensations that would cause, a sneeze would probably make their heads explode.

 

-- dwn

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I found the blame for Mesaana's death a bit odd really. But taken into the context of three of her peers/rivals dying through her actions SH and Moridin would have cause for concern on her motivation in their deaths and in particular Asmo's. I found the blame for Mesaanas 'death' odd because she still lost in a straight fight with Eg which I assumed SH/Moridin would know. The only one left to report the news of what had happened - Alviarin - didnt witness the death and had scarpered with her other B.A. mates before the mind-melting showdown. So they would have reported that they could not move out of the white tower and ~SH would have known it to be the dreamspike causing this, but would not have known why it was there and assumed G was working to her own ends.

 

Because Mesaana wouldnt have done a straight out fight with Egwene if it weren't for that dreamspike. Essentially, even though Graendal had nothing to do with it, it was her responsibility. Its not surprising; in many lines of work if something goes wrong its blamed on the superiors, because its their job to keep their staff in line.

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Was it ever explained how Mesaana circumvented the oaths? I remember them making a big deal about it near the beginning, but after her death, they basically just said no one noticed her because she was posing as a Brown Ajah...

At that very talk in the beginning Egwene decided that once it was clear there WERE many ways in which she could've eluded the test, it didn't much matter which way she used. That's Brandon's way of telling us "way to go with your theories, I think everything you said made a lot of sense", I assume. There were a few times I felt he was hinting at topics of open discussions in the fandom. Or maybe tipping his hat would be a better description.

 

But am I right no-one would feel an incoming gateway?

I don't know. I don't think so, though. For example, Cadsuanes ter'angreal enabled her to locate the sites of incoming Forsaken during the Cleansing. Now, thta isn't the same thing, strictly speaking, but it's close. I took those comments to mean that a male channeler has opened a Gateway to her quarters, and she left through it.

 

Can a damane put on the bracelet attached to another damane's a'dam?

Well, the a'dam prevents you from entering a circle, so I don't think so. I bet all parties would die if they tried it.

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I read the title and coldn't hep but think of this.

 

"Don't ask me silly question,

I won't play silly games,

I'm just a simple choo-choo train

and I'll always be the same."

 

My friend just lent me The Dark Tower series by Stephen King and I had to pause that when ToM came out. Anyway... just thought it was an interesting choice of words =)

 

[edit] - actually that's strange - I think I have Dark Tower on the brain 0.o I thought the title said "silly" not "simple" =/

 

Wow. This is EXACTLY the same boat I'm in. I'm at the beginning of book 4 of the Dark Tower series and stopped to reread TGS and then read ToM.

 

I was thinking about how the Wheel of Time world could be one of the worlds tied to the Dark Tower. Could you imagine Roland drawing Rand into his ka'tet?

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....But am I right no-one would feel an incoming gateway?

 

In Rand's battle with Sammael, when he follows him to Shadar Logoth, Rand has to run away quickly from his gateway to avoid getting blasted by Sammael, and Sammael is not in line of sight to see the gateway. There are other examples, but that one sticks in my mind. I'd say, from this, that a channeler can feel an incoming gateway, provided the weaves aren't inverted - at least if it is done by someone channeling the same aspect of the one power that they use.

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Can a damane put on the bracelet attached to another damane's a'dam?

Well, the a'dam prevents you from entering a circle, so I don't think so. I bet all parties would die if they tried it.

I read elsewhere that the a'dam creates an unnatural forced circle between the sul'dam and the damane, and the nature of it prevents other channelers from entering in the ordinary way. However, two damane mutually joined by their a'dams would both be linked in the same type of unnatural circle.

 

I suppose that in all the centuries since a'dam were created, at least one sul'dam might have ordered her damane to pick up another's bracelet. The fact that we don't see it happening now might prove one of three things: 1) The experiment backfired badly. 2) The experiment worked too well; the damane could control each other without a sul'dam, therefore the sul'dam were forbidden to ever do that again so as to hide that knowledge from the damane. 3) RJ had enough other material to develop and didn't want to go there.

 

Here's another question: can a sul'dam control more than one damane at the same time?

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Was it ever explained how Mesaana circumvented the oaths? I remember them making a big deal about it near the beginning, but after her death, they basically just said no one noticed her because she was posing as a Brown Ajah...

At that very talk in the beginning Egwene decided that once it was clear there WERE many ways in which she could've eluded the test, it didn't much matter which way she used. That's Brandon's way of telling us "way to go with your theories, I think everything you said made a lot of sense", I assume. There were a few times I felt he was hinting at topics of open discussions in the fandom. Or maybe tipping his hat would be a better description.

 

Haha, I felt like I was reading one of our topics here about it a year ago when I came to this section... really. I just figured there would have been a concrete solution, but I guess not.

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Here's another question: can a sul'dam control more than one damane at the same time?

Definitely. Tuon does that with the three pesky AS (i.e. Joline, Teslyn and Edesina).

 

Haha, I felt like I was reading one of our topics here about it a year ago when I came to this section... really. I just figured there would have been a concrete solution, but I guess not.

If it interests you, Brandon confirmed that ONE of their ideas was correct. Good enough for me, the 'weave' people got their recognition, and I have mine (or at least I think I do, I need to re-listen to that scene).

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Here's another question: can a sul'dam control more than one damane at the same time?

Yes. Tuon did it in KOD, 'A Short Path'.

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Yes. Tuon did it in KOD, 'A Short Path'.

Haha, I had you beat. Plus, I referenced a Q&A to another question. For shame, Quotemistress :wink:

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I must be thick, because I really didn't see Thom and Moiraine. A few times after Mat mentioned how much Thom obsessed over the letter I started catching on. But was there something I missed from the early books that pointed to the two of them?

 

I remember their little showdown in the Stone of Tear when they did the quid pro quo biographies of each other. Moiraine wanted him gone so she could shape Rand, and that is like the only interaction I remember for the two of them. I remember Moiraine saying she knew the face of the man she would marry to the girls when they were Accepted, but I don't remember any connections to Thom.

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I must be thick, because I really didn't see Thom and Moiraine. A few times after Mat mentioned how much Thom obsessed over the letter I started catching on. But was there something I missed from the early books that pointed to the two of them?

 

I remember their little showdown in the Stone of Tear when they did the quid pro quo biographies of each other. Moiraine wanted him gone so she could shape Rand, and that is like the only interaction I remember for the two of them. I remember Moiraine saying she knew the face of the man she would marry to the girls when they were Accepted, but I don't remember any connections to Thom.

 

It was always there.. it was just a lot more subtle. I think it was a little too much over the top and out-of-character in this book, although I'm sure many people will use the "She's been through so much" line to explain her softening up

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I must be thick, because I really didn't see Thom and Moiraine. A few times after Mat mentioned how much Thom obsessed over the letter I started catching on. But was there something I missed from the early books that pointed to the two of them?

 

I remember their little showdown in the Stone of Tear when they did the quid pro quo biographies of each other. Moiraine wanted him gone so she could shape Rand, and that is like the only interaction I remember for the two of them. I remember Moiraine saying she knew the face of the man she would marry to the girls when they were Accepted, but I don't remember any connections to Thom.

 

It was always there.. it was just a lot more subtle. I think it was a little too much over the top and out-of-character in this book, although I'm sure many people will use the "She's been through so much" line to explain her softening up

 

I guess I could see a respect growing after the Stone of Tear into love, but that is still pretty thin. I mean she said she knew who she would marry before that could ever grow. That is why I was wondering what happened before that which would make Moiraine fall in love with Thom. She was purposely driving him away from Rand. If she could love him, why couldn't she trust him with helping Rand?

 

I don't know. It almost seems like since every other major character had found their one true love (or triple in Rand's case) that they said "what the heck, might as well put those two together".

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So, has anyone ever wondered how the Seanchan get all of the a'dam? The only reasonable explanation is that they have someone who is able to create ter'angreal, right?

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I must be thick, because I really didn't see Thom and Moiraine. A few times after Mat mentioned how much Thom obsessed over the letter I started catching on. But was there something I missed from the early books that pointed to the two of them?

 

I think you missed the "Robert Jordan Rules of Writing" memo:

 

 

"No (good) character in the Wheel of Time will stay single till the end of the book"

 

comes right after

 

"No matter how powerful the Forsaken are, they'll never kill anybody important."

 

 

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I noticed a few times throughout the book that there were people putting away letters sealed with red wax, a la Verin's letters. I didn't really pay attention to the appearances of these letters and who had them until it was too late. Does anyone have a handy list of people who had such letters in ToM?

 

 

I definitely remember Alanna...there are others..unsure

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