Perrin's Arc

[Owayn The Traveller]

If they are spun out in these roles on a regular basis is it not strange Lews Therin/Rand doesn't ever ponder on it. He would be like hey Mat kinda reminds me of insert name and Perrin is like insert name. Wait a minute.'.

 

Or do you mean just this particular turning, where the dark one needs to be resealed?

 

Why don't they just use polygrip to fill the bore? Then just sand it down nice and smooth and paint over it. gOOD AS NEW.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Well, Mjöllnir... er... I mean, Mah'alleinir, has been forged.

 

Which brought back to mind again that Perrin and Mat are based on Thor and Odin, or, at least in the context of the WoTverse, the norse mythology of Thor and Odin are based on Perrin and Mat. Which shows that, in the WoTverse, they are in our past and in our future.

 

And, so while I've fought the idea in the past, Mat and Perrin come around every turning of the Wheel for these roles. They're Heroes, not just random ta'veren. I don't think the Wheel would create two random ta'veren every turning to fulfill the same role each and every time, that's a Hero's job. Apparently a lot of people think that the hammer being named something similar to Mjöllnir is just a cheesy allusion and the point of the series just flies over their heads.

 

Uh huh. And ( among many others ) Rand is a Tyr analog. Question is whether Rand is also a Baldr doppelganger.

[Owayn The Traveller]

So Demandred been collecting mistletoe then?

[Agitel]

If they are spun out in these roles on a regular basis is it not strange Lews Therin/Rand doesn't ever ponder on it. He would be like hey Mat kinda reminds me of insert name and Perrin is like insert name. Wait a minute.'.

 

Or do you mean just this particular turning, where the dark one needs to be resealed?

 

Not on a regular basis, certainly not every age (at least not for these roles, and Mat's been born in the Third Age before, he was king of Manetheren when it fell).

 

No, I'm talking specifically about the current Age and the current conflict. They wouldn't have been spun out in the Age of Legends to fulfill those roles, so Lews Therin wouldn't remember them. I'm talking about seven Ages ago, when this current Age was in progress in the previous cycle.

[Bob T Dwarf]

So Demandred been collecting mistletoe then?

 

Well, he does harbor fantasies of kissing a certain strawberry haired beauty. Or, at least holding her for ransom.

 

Since Mat is also Loki, we would have to cast Demandred as the blind God of Winter Hoder and postulate that Mat helps kill Rand by supplying Demandred with the weapon. This likely casts Nynaeve in the role of Frigga.

[Xander234]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I doubt they will be something destructive like lightning, earthquakes or so on. Any Aes Sedai can do this. I hope it's connected to the dream world. Maybe something like a device capable of transporting people in flesh to the Dream world in massive quantities. It would be sweet to see Perin taking out a huge chunk of the Dark One's army by transporting it to the Dream World where he and all Wolves who have ever existed kill them offf

[Ahaz Flagg]

Am i the only one who sees Perrin for what he is? I feel vindicated after this book, Perrin says he would do it all over to save Falie!! My Gosh, this guy is willing to let the Great Lord take over the universe and remake it, and you all think Perrin is some kind of hero!! That being said, this arc was much nicer then his last few!! :) But I will never get over the fact that he is more then willing to forsake the light and let the Great lord win for Falie.

 

 

Also, if you are gonna bring wild claims in, please bring the info to back it up. Prove to me Isam/Luc is Darkhound Brother, there has never been anything to suggest this at any time, i cannot even count the reads i have done, and i am sure i would not forget that!! Bring the facts, and link em. Wolves who die in Tar die the final death, they do not become Darkhounds. this was said in the books and not based on opinion or wild thoughts. I cannot belive that Hopper being a Darkhound was even brought up.

 

I have not liked Perrin since he met Faile, and nothing i have seen in this book has made come around.

[lordofsoup]

I still dont like Perrin, but he was at least not boring this book, like he has been in the past. Mah'alleinir is something different, can it shoot lightning when it hits an enemy. I keep wanting to picture it as Sauron's mace, where it blasts people with majic when it hits

[Bob T Dwarf]

Am i the only one who sees Perrin for what he is? I feel vindicated after this book, Perrin says he would do it all over to save Falie!! My Gosh, this guy is willing to let the Great Lord take over the universe and remake it, and you all think Perrin is some kind of hero!! That being said, this arc was much nicer then his last few!! :) But I will never get over the fact that he is more then willing to forsake the light and let the Great lord win for Falie.

 

 

Also, if you are gonna bring wild claims in, please bring the info to back it up. Prove to me Isam/Luc is Darkhound Brother, there has never been anything to suggest this at any time, i cannot even count the reads i have done, and i am sure i would not forget that!! Bring the facts, and link em. Wolves who die in Tar die the final death, they do not become Darkhounds. this was said in the books and not based on opinion or wild thoughts. I cannot belive that Hopper being a Darkhound was even brought up.

 

I have not liked Perrin since he met Faile, and nothing i have seen in this book has made come around.

 

My impression is that Jordan expected his readers to see the Perrin/Faile arc as some grand romantic thing. Fact is, it clearly demonstrates that Perrin has no personal morality.

 

He's still a very sick puppy who doesn't know the difference between dependency and love. He's an addict who will sacrifice everything and everyone for his next hit of that Faile manga.

 

And, this is a guy we're supposed to root for. Sad.

[Owayn The Traveller]

So Demandred been collecting mistletoe then?

 

Well, he does harbor fantasies of kissing a certain strawberry haired beauty. Or, at least holding her for ransom.

 

Since Mat is also Loki, we would have to cast Demandred as the blind God of Winter Hoder and postulate that Mat helps kill Rand by supplying Demandred with the weapon. This likely casts Nynaeve in the role of Frigga.

 

Maybe Demi is behind the trollocs in Caemlyn and he finds the dragons.

[Duskfire]

Perrin did what any of the guys would do. Can you imagine if Min got captured by someone? Rand would go apeshit on them. Heck he already did at Dumai Wells when he thought they had hurt Min. Mat took on an army of Seanchan just so he could get over the border; what do you think he would do if someone he cared about was captured? That person and their army would be doomed. They just put their loved ones about themselves and others; its just what they do. And I am not sure I blame them. if I was in Perrins shoes and my wife was the one who got captured, I would do the same as well. What was he meant to do, just leave her there?

 

Perrin was boring and whiny yes. But he didn't do anything that isnt realistic. He put the rescue of his wife against all others, which makes complete sense.

[Demon_AS]

If they are spun out in these roles on a regular basis is it not strange Lews Therin/Rand doesn't ever ponder on it. He would be like hey Mat kinda reminds me of insert name and Perrin is like insert name. Wait a minute.'.

 

Or do you mean just this particular turning, where the dark one needs to be resealed?

 

Not on a regular basis, certainly not every age (at least not for these roles, and Mat's been born in the Third Age before, he was king of Manetheren when it fell).

 

No, I'm talking specifically about the current Age and the current conflict. They wouldn't have been spun out in the Age of Legends to fulfill those roles, so Lews Therin wouldn't remember them. I'm talking about seven Ages ago, when this current Age was in progress in the previous cycle.

Hmmm, your post just gave me the idea that Mat's head could be stuffed with knowledge/memories from his previous incarnations.

 

This probably isn't a new idea to the WoTverse, but hey ho. Food for thought.

[Rand Skywalker]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I doubt they will be something destructive like lightning, earthquakes or so on. Any Aes Sedai can do this. I hope it's connected to the dream world. Maybe something like a device capable of transporting people in flesh to the Dream world in massive quantities. It would be sweet to see Perin taking out a huge chunk of the Dark One's army by transporting it to the Dream World where he and all Wolves who have ever existed kill them offf

 

Yeah, this intrigued me too. Maybe it's heat effect will have some impact on the nigh unkillable Slayer?

[AutomatedTeller]

Perrin did what any of the guys would do. Can you imagine if Min got captured by someone? Rand would go apeshit on them. Heck he already did at Dumai Wells when he thought they had hurt Min. Mat took on an army of Seanchan just so he could get over the border; what do you think he would do if someone he cared about was captured? That person and their army would be doomed. They just put their loved ones about themselves and others; its just what they do. And I am not sure I blame them. if I was in Perrins shoes and my wife was the one who got captured, I would do the same as well. What was he meant to do, just leave her there?

 

Perrin was boring and whiny yes. But he didn't do anything that isnt realistic. He put the rescue of his wife against all others, which makes complete sense.

 

You know, he didn't do in a spectacular manner (you screw with Rand, and he'll kill your warders, kill your damane, kill you, kill his friends...), but Perrin, in that battle:

 

Wiped out the Shaido, including 100's of channelers

Wiped out the Prophet, who was nearly as dangerous as the shaido

Formed a working relationship with an important seanchan general

Wiped out most of the seanchan store of forkroot

And created one of the largest armies in Randland.

 

Now THAT'S badass.

[ChrisTrebing]

So is Perrin more powerful in the dream than Egwene? Or was she just too preoccupied/startled to put all her strength into holding Perrin?

[Demon_AS]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I doubt they will be something destructive like lightning, earthquakes or so on. Any Aes Sedai can do this. I hope it's connected to the dream world. Maybe something like a device capable of transporting people in flesh to the Dream world in massive quantities. It would be sweet to see Perin taking out a huge chunk of the Dark One's army by transporting it to the Dream World where he and all Wolves who have ever existed kill them offf

A circle? Of course not - it's not an angreal or sa'angreal like Callandor is.

 

Nor is it a weapon capable of utilising the Power - think of it like a Power-forged Heron-marked blade. The edge never dulled on them, and they were virtually impossible to break, but anyone could use them and not just channelers.

 

No, while the OP went into its making, the hammer a tool that anyone can use... or maybe just Perrin, since he forged it. But either way, I don't think it can be enhanced any further with the Power.

[Baelorn]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I think it just has special properties against Shadowspawn. Maybe an alternative to Balefire for killing Darkhounds.

[bronnt]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I think it just has special properties against Shadowspawn. Maybe an alternative to Balefire for killing Darkhounds.

 

Mah'alleinir: +5 warhammer. Does 2d4 damage to all shadowspawn. May cause effect burning upon strike.

[Bob T Dwarf]

So is Perrin more powerful in the dream than Egwene? Or was she just too preoccupied/startled to put all her strength into holding Perrin?

 

Unknown. He's certainly not hampered by the same preconceptions about what is possible or what works, which may amount to the same thing.

 

The whole Perrin/Egwene interaction demonstrates that in Tel'aran'rhiod ( and maybe elsewhere ) belief has the most power. Egwene was ineffectual because Perrin simply dismissed everything she tried to do. He believed in a different outcome from the one she was trying to impose with One Power.

[Baelorn]

So is Perrin more powerful in the dream than Egwene? Or was she just too preoccupied/startled to put all her strength into holding Perrin?

 

Unknown. He's certainly not hampered by the same preconceptions about what is possible or what works, which may amount to the same thing.

 

The whole Perrin/Egwene interaction demonstrates that in Tel'aran'rhiod ( and maybe elsewhere ) belief has the most power. Egwene was ineffectual because Perrin simply dismissed everything she tried to do. He believed in a different outcome from the one she was trying to impose with One Power.

 

Actually I think he is more powerful than Egwene in the dream or, at least, more effectively trained. It probably comes down to the training he received in the nightmares. The Wise Ones, and therefor Egwene, have a strict rule against being drawn into nightmares if I recall correctly.

[GusE]

I don't think Perrin is inherently stronger. Egwene is just too arrogant, self-assured and used to fixing things with the OP.

[Xander234]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I doubt they will be something destructive like lightning, earthquakes or so on. Any Aes Sedai can do this. I hope it's connected to the dream world. Maybe something like a device capable of transporting people in flesh to the Dream world in massive quantities. It would be sweet to see Perin taking out a huge chunk of the Dark One's army by transporting it to the Dream World where he and all Wolves who have ever existed kill them offf

A circle? Of course not - it's not an angreal or sa'angreal like Callandor is.

 

Nor is it a weapon capable of utilising the Power - think of it like a Power-forged Heron-marked blade. The edge never dulled on them, and they were virtually impossible to break, but anyone could use them and not just channelers.

 

No, while the OP went into its making, the hammer a tool that anyone can use... or maybe just Perrin, since he forged it. But either way, I don't think it can be enhanced any further with the Power.

 

 

Huh? I meant that they needed a circle to crate the weapon. That seems like a lot of power only for your usual unbreakable weapon.

 

That's why I am wondering if it's something like the Dream Ring. Something that doesn't need a channeler but still has significant abilities. As we saw with the Slayer you could enter the World of Dreams in flesh even if you are not a channeler. If Perin has a similar ability(or the hammer gives it to him) and can be used offensively on a large radius I can see it being a great weapon and it would be great to see all the dead wolves joining in the fight

[Demon_AS]

Ok I am really curious about the hammer. I doubt it''s you regular unbreakable weapon. I can't imagine needing a circle for something like this. I can't wait to see if it has some special powers.

 

I doubt they will be something destructive like lightning, earthquakes or so on. Any Aes Sedai can do this. I hope it's connected to the dream world. Maybe something like a device capable of transporting people in flesh to the Dream world in massive quantities. It would be sweet to see Perin taking out a huge chunk of the Dark One's army by transporting it to the Dream World where he and all Wolves who have ever existed kill them offf

A circle? Of course not - it's not an angreal or sa'angreal like Callandor is.

 

Nor is it a weapon capable of utilising the Power - think of it like a Power-forged Heron-marked blade. The edge never dulled on them, and they were virtually impossible to break, but anyone could use them and not just channelers.

 

No, while the OP went into its making, the hammer a tool that anyone can use... or maybe just Perrin, since he forged it. But either way, I don't think it can be enhanced any further with the Power.

 

 

Huh? I meant that they needed a circle to crate the weapon. That seems like a lot of power only for your usual unbreakable weapon.

 

That's why I am wondering if it's something like the Dream Ring. Something that doesn't need a channeler but still has significant abilities. As we saw with the Slayer you could enter the World of Dreams in flesh even if you are not a channeler. If Perin has a similar ability(or the hammer gives it to him) and can be used offensively on a large radius I can see it being a great weapon and it would be great to see all the dead wolves joining in the fight

Oh I see - I thought you were saying that he needed a circle to use the hammer properly - my apologies.

 

Perrin already has that "dreaming" ability, which is part and parcel of being a Wolfbrother. He can enter the wolf-dream as much as Slayer does - Hopper was always warning him about "being here too strongly", which implies that.

 

I think it's fair enough to think that we've not seen all of what Mah'alleinir is capable of doing, but I don't think it'll be something that'll enhance Perrin's already-enhanced abilities. I think it's just a super-powered weapon, like Rand's Callandor and Mat's Ashandarei.

[waffle]

Will probably/hopefully kill Darkhounds. My reasoning? Gut feeling.

[Cyf]

I think Perrin is stronger. He's a Wolfbrother, and wolves are intrinsically linked to T'A'R. He managed to face down major nightmares that Aes Sedai and Wise Ones would need multiple people to negate.

 

Then again, Egwene can jump dreams and such, so she's broader. But in pure 'I'm in T'A'R, who will win in a contest of changing reality'? I think Perrin would win, hands down.