Chapter 1 "Apples First"

[Impressive Bosom]

So Rands presence, now that hes back to normal, stops the Dark Ones influence. He needs to pay Hinderstap a visit methinks.

Yeah, but... during the day. Definitely during the day.

[ShenAnCalhar]

Awesome first chapter - I was a bit worried it was going to be another long-winded "random guy" chapter, but it wasn't. Maybe Rand should stop in at Bandar Eban real quick to prevent the entire Domani nation from starving...

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

[OptimusPrime]

So Rands presence, now that hes back to normal, stops the Dark Ones influence. He needs to pay Hinderstap a visit methinks.

Yeah, but... during the day. Definitely during the day.

 

Maybe he should stay there through the setting of the sun to ward off the change, possibly making the Pattern reassert itself around him permanently or something.

[Kaznen]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

[ShenAnCalhar]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

[lilltempest]

I hope no one has already mentioned this, but i dont have time to read everything. If Messana is still in the tower, and Rand goes there to see Egwene, what better time would it be to finally root her out of the tower.

 

What would really make my day is to have Egwene publicly berating Rand for everything from letting his men bond women who attacked his men with the intent to kill them to having the gall to think he can so much as put on his boots without her dictating how he should do it, only to have him grasp saidin and shield a woman in the crowd that's watching her tyrannical rant. Egwene would go nuts at his gall, of course (how dare he ever shield an Aes Sedai! they're gods and he is but a tool for her to use!) and demand that he drop the shield or he will be made to regret it. Then, in "new cool" Rand fashion, he could ask her why she would want him to unshield a Forsaken...and tell her that the woman is Mesaana. Egghead would choke on her tongue for about two seconds (while Mesaana would be soiling her underclothes) before laying into him that Mesaana being in the Tower was Aes Sedai business and he had no right to get involved. She'd insist she had it all under control and was dealing with the Forsaken in her own time. I think new Rand would just laugh at her at that point and call her out for being the foolish child that she really is when compared to him.

[Impressive Bosom]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

Wouldn't be sad if we had the only one, either ;P

[lilltempest]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Once Rand had the epiphany, he was in a place where he would have been able to handle the power of the CK without going bonkers and destroying the Pattern. He could have used the CK for defense, if nothing else - especially with him walking into the snake pit that is the White Tower. The man needs to be able to channel strongly enough to take on the entire tower, since Egwene will likely have that sa'angreal on her still and will foam at the mouth at the opportunity to best Rand using the One Power to show him who's boss. Being the most important thread in the Pattern means he should act responsibly and protect himself from harm until he absolutely has to put in himself in danger at Shayol Ghul. Getting leashed by Egwene or the Seanchan won't do the Pattern any favors.

[Awakened]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Once Rand had the epiphany, he was in a place where he would have been able to handle the power of the CK without going bonkers and destroying the Pattern. He could have used the CK for defense, if nothing else - especially with him walking into the snake pit that is the White Tower. The man needs to be able to channel strongly enough to take on the entire tower, since Egwene will likely have that sa'angreal on her still and will foam at the mouth at the opportunity to best Rand using the One Power to show him who's boss. Being the most important thread in the Pattern means he should act responsibly and protect himself from harm until he absolutely has to put in himself in danger at Shayol Ghul. Getting leashed by Egwene or the Seanchan won't do the Pattern any favors.

 

Pretty sure he could simply use his Ta'vern powers to stop Egwene's heart by coincidence if she started getting uppity. Or maybe she could spontaneously faint from stress. Or maybe he could utterly withdraw the Light's protection of the Tower and let everyone in it be consumed by a giant evil bubble. Then he could use the Wise Ones and freed damane and renegade suldam to train the female auxiliary of the Black Tower and start over again. Frankly, wiping the Aes Sedai off the planet and starting again from scratch is probably doing the world a favor.

 

And lets not forget that he also has the True Power up his sleeve. Who knows whether or not the One Power can even shield that.

[Naffy]

I think destroying the Choeden Kal was symbolic for Rand. It represented him crushing dark Rand so that light Rand could rule. I have a feeling that strength in the OP will not be the key to the Last Battle. Strenght in the One Power is what will and has allowed Rand to survive/prepare for the battle.

[Maji]

 

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

 

 

One step at a time, worry about the immediate problem (DO and The Last Battle) is probably what Rand is thinking. That's a problem for another day or perhaps another person since he is pretty convinced he is going to die. Many of us believe he will and will be reborn or ripped from the pattern (whatever your particular flavor of theory) but Rand doesn't appear to believe this. He just believe he's reborn whenever the pattern deems it necessary. When he dies, it seems like Rand is thinking he's down for the count (until he's reborn as a babe again, centuries or rather ages, later) but he's taking the Dark One with him gosh darn it.

 

Simple First: Big Problem First (Last Battle and DO), minor details later (More super powerful sa'angreal, CK, etc).

[NetSlider]

Also, slightly off topic, I feel obligated to posit that Rand is an idiot for destroying the Choedan Kal. Even if he couldn't use it to fight the Great Lord, it still would have been very useful.

 

So is a nuclear bomb. But we wouldn't be sad if those went away.

 

But atomic bombs don't possess the potential for creating incredible wonders like the Choedan Kal does. Plus, destroying it only postpones the problem; it's logical to assume (especially given the cyclic nature of the Wheel of Time) that at some point in the future people will be able to once again create incredibly powerful Sa'angreal. Rather than figuring out a good system to deal with it, you destroy it? That's almost like someone destroying the first computer prototype because it could foreseeably be used with malevolent intent. In the face of progress it's a futile gesture, not to mention severely limiting - Rand would be kicking himself if the Great Lord were to touch the world in a way that only an incredible amount of the One Power could reverse.

 

I couldn't agree more. Once Rand had the epiphany, he was in a place where he would have been able to handle the power of the CK without going bonkers and destroying the Pattern. He could have used the CK for defense, if nothing else - especially with him walking into the snake pit that is the White Tower. The man needs to be able to channel strongly enough to take on the entire tower, since Egwene will likely have that sa'angreal on her still and will foam at the mouth at the opportunity to best Rand using the One Power to show him who's boss. Being the most important thread in the Pattern means he should act responsibly and protect himself from harm until he absolutely has to put in himself in danger at Shayol Ghul. Getting leashed by Egwene or the Seanchan won't do the Pattern any favors.

 

Pretty sure he could simply use his Ta'vern powers to stop Egwene's heart by coincidence if she started getting uppity. Or maybe she could spontaneously faint from stress. Or maybe he could utterly withdraw the Light's protection of the Tower and let everyone in it be consumed by a giant evil bubble. Then he could use the Wise Ones and freed damane and renegade suldam to train the female auxiliary of the Black Tower and start over again. Frankly, wiping the Aes Sedai off the planet and starting again from scratch is probably doing the world a favor.

 

And lets not forget that he also has the True Power up his sleeve. Who knows whether or not the One Power can even shield that.

 

I have to admit that the idea of him being so strong a taveren that he could have his enemies fall and break their necks is very nice indeed (or heart stop - in your face Cady). Egwene is not his enemy but does she knows the difference, that's the questions worth million gold pieces.

[TreeJoe]

113 men, unlinked, sealed the Dark One for 3000 years.

 

Yeah, I don't think massive strength in the One Power is going to be the critical success factor of ridding the world of the Dark One.

 

The Choedan Kal is like having the big gun. It's a big strength, but also a big liability. What happens if it falls into the wrong hands? Rand himself is barely strong enough to use it: what happens if he slips while using it?

 

He was right to destroy it.

[Auld Manriva]

113 men, unlinked, sealed the Dark One for 3000 years.

 

Yeah, I don't think massive strength in the One Power is going to be the critical success factor of ridding the world of the Dark One.

 

The Choedan Kal is like having the big gun. It's a big strength, but also a big liability. What happens if it falls into the wrong hands? Rand himself is barely strong enough to use it: what happens if he slips while using it?

 

He was right to destroy it.

 

A Pandora's box on a Colossus of Rhodes scale. Just like nuclear power and what can be done with IT that is helpful.

 

How do you isolate the CK from scrubs with bad attitudes from coming near enough to prevent catastrophe like what nearly happened with Rand in TGH when he could barely channel? How do you prevent other access keys being made and falling into the hands of dirt bags? ......

 

Best it's gone.

[ShenAnCalhar]

Valid points, but couldn't they all be applied to Callandor as well? Or any angreal? They could all fall into the wrong hands and be misused. Granted in the case of Callandor you'd need Chosen working in collusion, but that could happen.

 

All these points also applied before the Taint was cleansed - we had no idea it was even a possibility, and the CK played what could be argued as in irreplaceable role in the process. What other highly beneficial opportunities are you blindly opting out of by destroying the thing now?

 

I think Rand should be taking a more proactive approach than hoping the Pattern/Ta'vereness protects him, and that means leveraging every bit of strength he possesses.

[ghenjei]

I hope no one has already mentioned this, but i dont have time to read everything. If Messana is still in the tower, and Rand goes there to see Egwene, what better time would it be to finally root her out of the tower.

 

What would really make my day is to have Egwene publicly berating Rand for everything from letting his men bond women who attacked his men with the intent to kill them to having the gall to think he can so much as put on his boots without her dictating how he should do it, only to have him grasp saidin and shield a woman in the crowd that's watching her tyrannical rant. Egwene would go nuts at his gall, of course (how dare he ever shield an Aes Sedai! they're gods and he is but a tool for her to use!) and demand that he drop the shield or he will be made to regret it. Then, in "new cool" Rand fashion, he could ask her why she would want him to unshield a Forsaken...and tell her that the woman is Mesaana. Egghead would choke on her tongue for about two seconds (while Mesaana would be soiling her underclothes) before laying into him that Mesaana being in the Tower was Aes Sedai business and he had no right to get involved. She'd insist she had it all under control and was dealing with the Forsaken in her own time. I think new Rand would just laugh at her at that point and call her out for being the foolish child that she really is when compared to him.

 

Actually I find this to be a totally plausible Egghead scenario. Except you neglected to say what would happen next. Egghead and her gaggle of fellow unrealistic control-freaks with zero sense of objectivity would feel affronted, and, after much eyebrow arching, braid pulling and hyperventilating, declare war on all men who can channel. Zen Captain Rand will shrug, balefire Mesaana, have a grill cheese sandwich and then lop Gawyn's head off with his surf board, as Gawyn is a "total downer, man."

 

Rand will then head back to the Black Tower, where he and Logain will deal with Taim & his Boyz (fire and blood- check!), uniting the Ashamen just in time to bond all the attacking Aes Sedai, thereby neatly solving the world's problems and ensuring victory at Tarmon Gaidan. He'll also find time to organize the first jam-band festival, where they will camp out on the slopes of Dragonmount for three days of music, Two Rivers "tabac", multiple-spouses and a chill victory celebration. Tuon will join in this as well, growing her hair and declaring herself done with "all this Nazi, shaved-head B.S." Matt will, of course, be happy with this, as there will be lots wine and farmgirls/hippy-chicks who think it's harvest time.

[aunt_pol]

I firmly believe strength of OP is not gonna be the winner here. The whole Might is Right thing just doesn't fit. I do agree the CK was certainly a neutral tool, with many positive uses, but destroying it was meant to get us looking at alternative options. LightRand certainly supports this. It's gonna be flowery-lovey-hippy-Rand winning the day. Be sceptical, but know you're gonna wind up loving it!

[Razor]

time to organize the first jam-band festival, where they will camp out on the slopes of Dragonmount

 

The first burning man festival?

[Awakened]

I hope no one has already mentioned this, but i dont have time to read everything. If Messana is still in the tower, and Rand goes there to see Egwene, what better time would it be to finally root her out of the tower.

 

What would really make my day is to have Egwene publicly berating Rand for everything from letting his men bond women who attacked his men with the intent to kill them to having the gall to think he can so much as put on his boots without her dictating how he should do it, only to have him grasp saidin and shield a woman in the crowd that's watching her tyrannical rant. Egwene would go nuts at his gall, of course (how dare he ever shield an Aes Sedai! they're gods and he is but a tool for her to use!) and demand that he drop the shield or he will be made to regret it. Then, in "new cool" Rand fashion, he could ask her why she would want him to unshield a Forsaken...and tell her that the woman is Mesaana. Egghead would choke on her tongue for about two seconds (while Mesaana would be soiling her underclothes) before laying into him that Mesaana being in the Tower was Aes Sedai business and he had no right to get involved. She'd insist she had it all under control and was dealing with the Forsaken in her own time. I think new Rand would just laugh at her at that point and call her out for being the foolish child that she really is when compared to him.

... I love you.

[ghenjei]

 

The first burning man festival?

 

 

Certainly the first for the 4th Age. I'm sure Brigitte can conjure up some memories of Shea dancers and such to make it a properly good time. Zen Capt. Rand will give talks on the proper path and how to properly stare. Nyn will finally get to the "tabac" and give mellowness workshops. The Aiel will perform native jumping dances. The Traveling People will provide vegan food carts. Quite the show really.

[Edorion]

I thought it sounded more like Woodstock or Bonaroo (Just an aside, I always thought the way it was subtley described made it sound like a little more than "tabac" myself).

 

But anywho, I think the Choedan Kal already had their "big moment" in the series, the cleansing of the taint, and it just wouldn't be as cool if they ended up being the deciding factor in the last battle as well. I doubt RJ would've allowed the possibility of his opus being boiled down to, "Well, whenever they had a big problem, they just pulled out the super weapon they discovered in book 2, fought over in book 4, wielded in book 9 & 12, and took care of business" either. Especially after all of the foreshadowing with Callandor, the "...and he shall wield a blade of light..." etc.

[Zentopia]

I just wonder how anyone could vouch for its authenticity?

Mat blows Horn of Valere

Artur Hawkwing: Hello.

Rand: This is Justice, is it not?

Artur Hawking: Yeah, that's it. What's up with those people with the ridiculous haircuts?

 

This needs to happen. OH MAN this needs to happen. :)

[ShadowsFell]

Timeline wise, until we read the book we can't know for sure. My guess is that the 30 days between Mat meeting Verin and her dying is wrong, and in fact she went from Mat to Egwene within a couple days, so it's about 9-10 days latter in chapter 8. But, that's just a guess.

 

I'm glad you mentioned this, I was thinking the same thing. I think Verin mentioned the 30 days in kind-of a "let me give him a large enough window so that even if things go really bad, or take a really long time, I still can get back to take it from him; if I'm not there in 30 days I'm not coming back".

 

I always thought that Verin went to Egwene just a couple of days after leaving Matt, makes the most sense to me.

 

“There are always things of use around, if you look closely enough. You can’t stare at them too long. To learn but not be overwhelmed, that is the balance.

 

I guess this means that Rand only took parts of his old lives that he needs to not be overwhelmed.

 

I have a feeling what parts we see of Rand in this book will not be his PoV. More like glimpses of his accention through other people.

 

 

Agreed on this, I took that to mean that if he knows where to look (and he does now, post tGS), he can recall memories from all his past lives, but he has to make it be a balancing act to only take enough to learn, and not be overwhelmed by it. He was looking back at Dragonmount when he said this, as if remembering his revelations.

 

I loved this chapter, made of complete awesomeness.

[Red Hand Man]

Timeline wise, until we read the book we can't know for sure. My guess is that the 30 days between Mat meeting Verin and her dying is wrong, and in fact she went from Mat to Egwene within a couple days, so it's about 9-10 days latter in chapter 8. But, that's just a guess.

 

I'm glad you mentioned this, I was thinking the same thing. I think Verin mentioned the 30 days in kind-of a "let me give him a large enough window so that even if things go really bad, or take a really long time, I still can get back to take it from him; if I'm not there in 30 days I'm not coming back".

 

I always thought that Verin went to Egwene just a couple of days after leaving Matt, makes the most sense to me.

 

“There are always things of use around, if you look closely enough. You can’t stare at them too long. To learn but not be overwhelmed, that is the balance.

 

I guess this means that Rand only took parts of his old lives that he needs to not be overwhelmed.

 

I have a feeling what parts we see of Rand in this book will not be his PoV. More like glimpses of his accention through other people.

 

 

Agreed on this, I took that to mean that if he knows where to look (and he does now, post tGS), he can recall memories from all his past lives, but he has to make it be a balancing act to only take enough to learn, and not be overwhelmed by it. He was looking back at Dragonmount when he said this, as if remembering his revelations.

 

I loved this chapter, made of complete awesomeness.

 

I'm willing to bet we get very very limited Rand PoVs from now on.

[The Fisher King]

Verin meant thirty days from the time she gave hime the letter - not thirty days from the time he got to Camelyn.

 

 

Fish