Apologies.

[Jon Paul]

@ jonpaul and barid: It's not the fact that he doubted Hurin: that's understandable. It's the fact that he was really rude to him. Not Hurin's fault the leaders are a pack of feckless wasters. 'Don't shoot the messenger, etc etc.

 

The very fabric of reality its self is under tremendous strain, existance is nigh ending.  Man's only hope of salvation has been driven to the edge of insanity.  The Shadow in the north is about to descend on an unprepared and ill-equiped world because that world its self has literally turned their back on their salvation.. and the guardians in the north have, for the first time since their founding, abandoned their posts..

 

And Rand is meant to avoid being rude to a thief-taker :P?

[aunt_pol]

Well since then, Rand has discovered love is the key to everything, seemingly, so surely he could have been cautiously polite, rather than ignorant?

 

Besides, remember Caddy clattering the (face/arse?) of him for being rude to her! She should have done it more often  ;D

 

I just think that it's very short sighted and foolish to be horrible to the people on your side, when half the world's against you.

[OptimusPrime]

MORIDIN: Demandred.

DEMANDRED: What?

MORIDIN: Im sorry.

DEMANDRED: ... For what?

MORIDIN: This is the end for you.

DEMANDRED: What do you mean?

MORIDIN: You've got your own gathering of channelers on the sly. Dont think I dont know it, you've had interractions with our Ashaman, and you've got your little partnership with Mesaana, dont think I dont know you've pulled a few strings to put your own personal circle together.

DEMANDRED: Er, bu- I mean, Im merely setting myself up for Tarmon Gaidon!

MORIDIN: Yeah well I dont trust you anymore. Sorry pal, you were a good sidekick.

DEMANDRED: Wait! I helped bring you back!

 

*Moridin balefires Demandred*

[TheBeerPatriot]

1. Alanna needs to apologize to Rand for bonding him without asking

2. Rand DOES need to apologize to Hurin for being such a jerk-I don't care what kind of strain he's under, no excuse to treat Hurin like that

3. Faile needs to apologize to Perrin for her constant bullying, conniving and harassment

[Majsju]

Perrin should apologise to the wolves. When he needs them, he has no problem asking for them to help, even when it means them putting their lives at risk by helping him. And as soon as he does not need them anymore, he does anything he can to keep them out.

[Lena]

Perrin should apologise to the wolves. When he needs them, he has no problem asking for them to help, even when it means them putting their lives at risk by helping him. And as soon as he does not need them anymore, he does anything he can to keep them out.

Exactly, instead of using them in a smart way (maybe like some Special Ops), he always just leads them to get slaughtered. Also he should apologize to his Axe, because dumping the poor axe did not in any way improve his disgusting behaviour (torturing prisoners, smashing Rolan's head,...).

And he needs to apologize to the readers. I am sooo sick of reading stuff like "Faiiile!!! Nothing else matters".

[MikeRiley]

Perrin and Rolan were both in a kill or be killed situation. What Perrin did to him was not wrong in any way. It was unfortunate but also unavoidable. If you want to blame anybody for that, blame Faile for having the aiel not take precautions in the event they ran into the attackers. Instead she merely betrayed Rolan so he'd be killed easier.

 

And Rand is meant to avoid being rude to a thief-taker :P?

 

Yes. Rand knows Hurin and knows there is a hero-worship thing going on. What he did to Hurin was extremely abusive. Whatever Rand thought was going on, Hurin liked him and there was absolutely no reason to treat him the way he did. Everybody is deserving of a basic level of respect. That level can be raised or lowered depending on the person's actions, but Hurin never did anything for it to be lowered.

[Solmyr]

Perrin should appologize to Slayer. He shot him through, the rascal!

[Jon Paul]

Yes. Rand knows Hurin and knows there is a hero-worship thing going on. What he did to Hurin was extremely abusive. Whatever Rand thought was going on, Hurin liked him and there was absolutely no reason to treat him the way he did. Everybody is deserving of a basic level of respect. That level can be raised or lowered depending on the person's actions, but Hurin never did anything for it to be lowered.

 

And what was Rand to do?  I think it's agreeable that Rand's precaution with Hurin when he handled him [Hurin] with the Power was understandable.  Hurin appeared under suspicious cirumstances.  What everyone's gripe appears to be is with how Rand treated Hurin afterwards.. what did people want?  Should Rand have sat down and had a cup of tea with Hurin?  Why?  He journeyed with the man for a while, I don't doubt he quite liked the fellow.  But is Rand supposed to stop and chatter with old friends or everyone who wshes to worship him [Rand]?

 

What would have been the acceptable level of respect towards Hurin?

[mikael]

If anyone should apologize to Hurin its the border landers who sent him. Trying to lure the DR into Far Madding with the world on the brink of the LB etc is incredibly disrespectful, they should realize that the DR have more important things to do. If Hurin goes along with being the sheepish figure head then he will have to face the consequences.

[Shimmer]

A lot of people need to apologise to a lot of other people, but to keep it succinct:

Rand to Hurin

Rand to Tam

Cadsuane to Rand

Elayne to Mat

Tuon to Mat

Tenobia to everyone she talked to

Egwene to basically everyone (except the BA of course  :) )

 

[MikeRiley]

Yes. Rand knows Hurin and knows there is a hero-worship thing going on. What he did to Hurin was extremely abusive. Whatever Rand thought was going on, Hurin liked him and there was absolutely no reason to treat him the way he did. Everybody is deserving of a basic level of respect. That level can be raised or lowered depending on the person's actions, but Hurin never did anything for it to be lowered.

 

And what was Rand to do?  I think it's agreeable that Rand's precaution with Hurin when he handled him [Hurin] with the Power was understandable.  Hurin appeared under suspicious cirumstances.  What everyone's gripe appears to be is with how Rand treated Hurin afterwards.. what did people want?  Should Rand have sat down and had a cup of tea with Hurin?  Why?  He journeyed with the man for a while, I don't doubt he quite liked the fellow.  But is Rand supposed to stop and chatter with old friends or everyone who wshes to worship him [Rand]?

 

What would have been the acceptable level of respect towards Hurin?

 

 

There's a huge gap between sitting down to have tea and physically abusing an old friend with the power. I begin to think you're not really serious. He could have treated Hurin as a messenger - which he was - and gave his response without mentally scarring the guy for life. Of course, Rand was a fully insane tyrant at this point so we couldn't expect him to do anything but what he did.

[Jon Paul]

There's a huge gap between sitting down to have tea and physically abusing an old friend with the power. I begin to think you're not really serious. He could have treated Hurin as a messenger - which he was - and gave his response without mentally scarring the guy for life.

 

Rand's precautions with the power were well founded.  How was Rand to know Hurin was really Hurin?  He showed up, expecting to meet with the four leaders and their attendants of the Borderland nations.  Instead there was a lone man at the crossroads..

 

He did not abuse Hurin with the power.  He was simply on guard for the footfalls of the Shadow.  After he confirmed Hurin was Hurin, he let the man down and sent him on his way.  The only reason I can see for people being a little peeved at Rand is that Rand didn't then get down of his horse and chat about old times.

 

I liked Hurin, great wee side-character.  But he's just that.

 

 

Of course, Rand was a fully insane tyrant at this point so we couldn't expect him to do anything but what he did.

 

So if Rand was insane why do people want him to apologise?  He was not in control of his own actions.

[FarShainMael]

My own point precisely!

 

[aunt_pol]

Yes, but usually if someone points out you were horrible, (and Nynaeve probably will) you do the decent thing and apologise.

 

Remember the Grey AS Rand left to negotiate his deal with the Athan Miere, can't remember her name. She came back and relayed all details of the Bargain, and he gave out murder. She snapped back, about how he had them in the palm of his hand before he legged it, and that she was lucky to do as well as she did, and they "formally acknowledged you the Coramoor, by the by, may you get a bellyache from it!" or words to that effect. Min was sitting still, waiting for him to snap, but he actually took it with good grace, and thanked the AS for her work. Is he only polite when women bite the head off him?

 

Hurin only passed on the message he was asked to. Don't give a toss about Rand using the Power: he could still have been kinder. We weren't looking for a fireside chat: a simple " Sorry about that Hurin, we've had some trouble with baddies in disguises lately. "

[aunt_pol]

One last thing on the Rand/Hurin thing...

 

Hurin, after seeing Mat safely to Tar Valon, (no thanks for that) obv toddled off home to Fal Dara. How many of the borderlanders that left Falme with Rand did that? How many of them went off gallivanting round the continent, causing mayhem with Masema? I know we couldn't expect Darth Rand to think of any of that, but Hurin's a pretty decent guy. And prob could have been convinced to defect to Rand's camp, bringing his v talented and useful snout with him.

[OptimusPrime]

I think when Moiraine returns she should apologise to Lan for what happened with the bond.

 

Slightly off topic, but I also wounldnt mind it if Moiraine confronted Alanna about bonding Rand, made her apologise to Rand, and then made her pass that bond to Moiraine, Moiraine doing this so that she could influence Rands mood with her own emotions, to stop Ishamaels frame of mind from returning in spurts and making food rot.

[Lena]

reading about how Hurin was treated by Rand made me sad, cause Hurin is such a good hearted guy. He can not be blamed for the stupidity of his superiors.

[Majsju]

Yes, but usually if someone points out you were horrible, (and Nynaeve probably will) you do the decent thing and apologise.

 

Remember the Grey AS Rand left to negotiate his deal with the Athan Miere, can't remember her name. She came back and relayed all details of the Bargain, and he gave out murder. She snapped back, about how he had them in the palm of his hand before he legged it, and that she was lucky to do as well as she did, and they "formally acknowledged you the Coramoor, by the by, may you get a bellyache from it!" or words to that effect. Min was sitting still, waiting for him to snap, but he actually took it with good grace, and thanked the AS for her work. Is he only polite when women bite the head off him?

 

Hurin only passed on the message he was asked to. Don't give a toss about Rand using the Power: he could still have been kinder. We weren't looking for a fireside chat: a simple " Sorry about that Hurin, we've had some trouble with baddies in disguises lately. "

 

And there is a similar incident in KOD, when Rand snaps at Bera and Alanna for the deal with the rebels in Tear, causing Cadsuane to spank him, and then give him the advice that When the terms you offer are accepted, hold on to them. Something she really should not have had to tell him.

[Durinax]

well rand learned a hard lesson with semi you cant trust appearances so he had to be a bit rough to try and shake the guise if he was wearing one

[MikeRiley]

He wasn't shaking the disguise. If he suspected a trick like that he would have sliced the weave or disrupted it. That's not what he did. He went after Hurin because the borderlanders tried to abuse Rand's trust in him.

[OptimusPrime]

This talk about Rand apologising is hilarious.

 

RAND: Sorry guys, Im connected to Ishamael and our personalities are switching place-

EVERYONE ELSE: KILL HIIIIM!

 

Do you think Ishamael would have apologised for picking Hurin up? Because it might as well have been Ishamael. Nobody can expect that Rand will apologise on the magnitude that it looks like he should. He might as well apologise for getting his ass kicked. "Sorry guys, wont do it again, well, unless I cross balefires with Padan Fain of all people, it probably wont happen again. Not so you'll notice anyway."

[Val Mickey]

I'm sure Hurin doesn't mind. Lords do what they want, and everyone knows Rand is a little touched in the head - or is fated to.

@auntpol : Rand is usually polite with Bashere. And Loial. And Dobraine. And Rhuarc. And Bael. And Nynaeve. And Lan. And Sulin. And Nandera. Most of the time, at least.

 

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

reading about how Hurin was treated by Rand made me sad, cause Hurin is such a good hearted guy. He can not be blamed for the stupidity of his superiors.

 

I suppose that's life. Rand is a ruler and rulers have their own set of privileges.

[Random Man]

Merise should apologize to Narishima for taking away his Dragon pin. How would she like it if someone had taken away her shawl just after being raised and said "Even though I don't have any say in you becoming Aes Sedai, you can't have this back until I say so?"