How will Alivia help "kill" Rand?

[Red Hand Man]

Ok, so Min let the cat out of the bag a few books ago, Winter's Heart I believe.  How is she going to do it?

 

Some have speculated that she's going to help Gawyn procure Mat's Foxhead Medallion and that she's going to be involved in a body swap, etc...  I'm sure there are others that I'm missing.

 

My thought is that Alivia will help Rand and Tuon realize something and then Tuon gives him a new name, hence Rand dies, a la "The Death of Tuon" in the Gathering Storm.  No idea how it would go down, but obviously it would happen when they meet up for a truce, etc...

 

Thoughts?

[Crael123]

omg i cant believe i didnt realize that one about Tuon. wow i am dumb. that may happen

[Owayn The Traveller]

Yes that is an interesting idea.

 

What would Rand be called?

 

Going the way the with with Tuon and basically justed added on some letters to make a new name Rand could be called Grandy.

[mossman87]

I think he'll ask her to kill him.  For some reason.  Maybe something to save his soul?  The Moridin leak-over could be bad for it.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think he'll ask her to kill him.  For some reason.  Maybe something to save his soul?  The Moridin leak-over could be bad for it.

 

Possible.

 

I think that with Rand knowing of the viewing, if he wants to be killed, or anything to do with his death, he will keep Alivia near him, much in the same way as Suian and Gareth do. So the fact that he knows about the viewing will help to achieve it, if that makes sense. (Suian made sure she and gareth stayed close together, ensuring that Min's viewing would come true. Albiet it was a conditional vewiing, buut the principle is still the same.)

[Ishmayl]

 

Some have speculated that she's going to help Gawyn procure Mat's Foxhead Medallion

 

Okay, I don't really have anything to contribute here, but when you say "some" in this statement, don't you really just mean Terez?  Anyone that's ever actually read her theory and followed all her halfway-pieced-together "logic" doesn't really believe that's how it will go down.

[Fains nose]

I think its certain to be a similar situation to Egwenes accepted test. I think Rand will be trapped or captured by the shadow and about to be turned, and alivia will give him a knife or a sword and we will see him sheath the sword in order to not be turned. This will happen at the very end of ToM

[Impressive Bosom]

Ok, so Min let the cat out of the bag a few books ago, Winter's Heart I believe.  How is she going to do it?

 

My thought is that Alivia will help Rand and Tuon realize something and then Tuon gives him a new name, hence Rand dies, a la "The Death of Tuon" in the Gathering Storm.  No idea how it would go down, but obviously it would happen when they meet up for a truce, etc...

 

Thoughts?

 

Really great interpretation there, I hadn't thought of that. Though considering Alivia's hatred of the Seanchan and her relative naivety in all things not blasting or destroying it seems unlikely. Still, that's a really good catch.

[Val Mickey]

Yes that is an interesting idea.

 

What would Rand be called?

 

Going the way the with with Tuon and basically justed added on some letters to make a new name Rand could be called Grandy.

 

No way. He'll be called Brandon. :P

[Owayn The Traveller]

;). Took me a second to cope that. Me slow. Me son of Narg.

[DemandredFO]

I don't want to listen to another Cyndane isn't Lanfear situation but what does The foxhead have to do with Rand?

[Red Hand Man]

I don't want to listen to another Cyndane isn't Lanfear situation but what does The foxhead have to do with Rand?

 

It's about the theory that is lambasted by Ishamyl:

 

Some have speculated that she's going to help Gawyn procure Mat's Foxhead Medallion

 

Okay, I don't really have anything to contribute here, but when you say "some" in this statement, don't you really just mean Terez?  Anyone that's ever actually read her theory and followed all her halfway-pieced-together "logic" doesn't really believe that's how it will go down.

 

The theory is here:

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=127&theo=2701

 

--

 

I think its certain to be a similar situation to Egwenes accepted test. I think Rand will be trapped or captured by the shadow and about to be turned, and alivia will give him a knife or a sword and we will see him sheath the sword in order to not be turned. This will happen at the very end of ToM

 

I do like this quite a bit and would prefer this happening.  Though, I thought the wording of Min's viewing that we're given (I don't think we're ever given exactly what she tells him) leaned more towards a "Death of Tuon" type of situation.

 

Though this would complete the training that Lan gave Rand.

 

 

 

 

[DemandredFO]

I also would like the idea of the death of Tuon situation and it would be apt too.  Min is convinced Alivia will kill Rand then all he does is take a new name.

[Crossroad]

Alivia is the most practical of all the character to do the job of killing Rand.  It is a necessary part of locking down the prison. I believe it is the most important part of the sealing of the prison.  It was the only thing missing from the first time it was attempted.  The death of the creators champion.

 

How is not really the question it's why she has to do it and I believe it would be to hard for the rest of Rands friends to Kill him even though they all know its necessary part of the final solution.

[mossman87]

Alivia is the most practical of all the character to do the job of killing Rand.  It is a necessary part of locking down the prison. I believe it is the most important part of the sealing of the prison.  It was the only thing missing from the first time it was attempted.  The death of the creators champion.

 

How is not really the question it's why she has to do it and I believe it would be to hard for the rest of Rands friends to Kill him even though they all know its necessary part of the final solution.

 

LTT died?

[clu7ch]

Rand, is dead. All that remains, is the Dragon.

kind of seems out of place beings he just had a metanoia experience on dragonmount.

 

Rand is dead. All that remains, is Luckers.

 

 

 

 

..

Hey luckers. roll your sleeves up!

[ka243]

The problem with this idea is that it doesn't fit with the whole 3 women and a grave viewing of min's that I don't exactly remember the reference of and it seems pretty copoutish.

 

I'm betting on a healing of death, an intervention of the creator or some kind of body swap or something with the horn or dead --> TAR --> Life à la birgitte. 

I doubt he actually stays dead "to live you must die"....

[farthammer]

What specifically doesn't fit, just Alivia killing Rand?

[Lookingglass]

I thought the actual phrase was that she would help Rand die. Rand keeps correctind Min on this.

Using those words changes the tone and possibly the whole way we're reading this.

[Luckers]

Rand, is dead. All that remains, is the Dragon.

kind of seems out of place beings he just had a metanoia experience on dragonmount.

 

Rand is dead. All that remains, is Luckers.

 

 

 

 

..

Hey luckers. roll your sleeves up!

 

 

*Looks around at the devestation* Aight, some is gonna pay for this.

[stoneface]

My guess is that it won't happen until the last book.  So, speculation for A Memory of Light:

 

Alivia will help Rand die (Lookinglass noted this above).  Rand knows that to live, he must die.  LTT wanted to die, and agreed with Rand to wait until the last battle (not sure if Rand's experience at the end of tGS changed that).  The three women are apparently weeping over Rand's dead body.  My guess is that Alivia will assist Rand (maybe link with him) in his last desperate thrust against the DO, and their combined power will enable the resealing of the DO's prison.  Rand ends up dead, and probably Alivia too, but the deed has been done.  Rand is the sacrificed hero. 

 

What does it mean that to live he must die?  Enter "body-swap" speculation from stage left...  (Why make such a point about how young, strong, and handsome Moridin is?  And where will he end up if the body swap happens?)  The messianic implications around the Creator's champion are fulfilled.

 

 

[ka243]

Chapter in Tof M is going to be: The death of Rand.

 

Everyone is going to flip and then it will be just like the death of Tuon.

Alivia somehow helps rand to become the emperor of Seandar or the new reunited kingdom.

 

The King is dead, Long live the King.

Tuon is dead, Long live Fortuona.

Rand is dead, Long live (Fill in the blank....)

:)

 

 

... To live you must die fulfilled....

[adrienne]

I thought the actual phrase was that she would help Rand die. Rand keeps correctind Min on this.

 

That's how I've always remembered reading about that viewing. Min is resentful that Rand will die so she says it in a negative light is how I interpreted why she changes the wording.

 

 

[Juggler]

why all the body swap theories? I can't see why Alivia can't just help him do something that causes him to die and Nynaeve heals him. there is mention of "healing stilling as likely as healing a lost hand" so I think that will happen too at some point. I think that they just heal him and stop saying anything can be healed short of death. we all know a person can be brought back from dead if done quickly enough. I think he'll just be healed - it's such a way out there theory it just might happen.

 

[Luckers]

Have you read the Body Swap Theory--you'll find it linked on the General Wheel of Time Board in the Dragonmount Theory Database.