Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[TheDecline01]

Has Thom been anywhere close to male channelers able to sense he could be taught to channel? I don't remember him being evaluated.

Cause whe he doesn't have the spark obviously, I think he can learn, which would greatly help with the age problem with Moiraine.

[Loony Theory Trolloc]

Has Thom been anywhere close to male channelers able to sense he could be taught to channel? I don't remember him being evaluated.

Cause whe he doesn't have the spark obviously, I think he can learn, which would greatly help with the age problem with Moiraine.

 

No, not as far as we know. Apart from Rand the only male channeler he was near to should have been the stilled Logain in Salidar. Thom went with Elayne and Nynaeve to Tanchico, later to Salidar, than to Ebou Dar and since Ebou Dar he has always been with Mat - so he shouldn't have met any Asha'man.

[Sharaman]

RJ said Thom cannot channel and he never meant Thom to be capable of channeling. So unless Brandon decides to change that, it's not going to happen.

[yoniy0]

Loony:

1. I couldn't find that part in NS. Will you add a quote?

2. Remember, while the content of Rand and Siuan's conversation might not have been widely known, the fact that they HAVE met was. I don't think Ishamael would've had any difficulties guessing what they discussed.

3. I've seen it mentioned. No good answers, though.

4. I was under the impression that he knew from the start. He just didn't care, when it was a matter of saving Min's life. Note that he did his best not to use it again afterwards (and to the best of my knowledge, he didn't, in fact, use it).

[Luckers]

RJ said Thom cannot channel and he never meant Thom to be capable of channeling. So unless Brandon decides to change that, it's not going to happen.

 

No, RJ said that Thom cannot channel, and he never meant people to think he could. That is not to say he is incapable of learning.

[Loony Theory Trolloc]

Loony:

1. I couldn't find that part in NS. Will you add a quote?

I can't give you the exact quote, because I have the book unfortunately only as a german translation, but it's in chapter 11. at the very end, when Rafela tells Moiraine and Siuan about the practices of the Blue Ajah.

 

4. I was under the impression that he knew from the start. He just didn't care, when it was a matter of saving Min's life. Note that he did his best not to use it again afterwards (and to the best of my knowledge, he didn't, in fact, use it).

 

I was under the impression that Rand did not know that it was in fact the TP because he was always refering to it as kind of a mysterious power.

[yoniy0]

RJ said Thom cannot channel and he never meant Thom to be capable of channeling. So unless Brandon decides to change that, it's not going to happen.

No, RJ said that Thom cannot channel, and he never meant people to think he could. That is not to say he is incapable of learning.

Well, Tony Zbaraschuk reported that he said "Absolutely not. I never intended anyone to think he could", which I guess is what you referred to, but Edward Liu seemed to have been the one who asked the question, and he remembered RJ's response as "There is no way in hell Thom can channel".

I agree both statements don't literally exclude Thom having the potential to learn, but it is implied in RJ's incredulity, and his use of the word 'could'.

 

it's in chapter 11. at the very end

Okay, got it:

"Oh, yes," Rafela said happily, and she regaled them with arcane customs while they walked along the Tower's first level, some as silly as wearing blue stockings when leaving Tar Valon, some as sensible as refraining from marriage. Aes Sedai did marry now and then, but Moiraine could not see how that could end other than poorly.

Okay, so I have two comments. The first, I'm not sure this custom is as binding as some. Moiraine's comment on what other AS do seems to suggest that, though she could've meant non-Blues. The second, we see just before this exchange that Rafela is crazy with bringing back customs that were kept hundreds of years ago. It may be that this was strongly enforced at one time, but recently sisters were allowed to ignore it.

 

I was under the impression that Rand did not know that it was in fact the TP because he was always refering to it as kind of a mysterious power.

Why then does he refrain from using it ever since, actively thinking of ways to resist the temptation?

[Luckers]

Quote from: Luckers on Today at 02:06:17 AM

Quote from: Sharaman on Today at 01:33:08 AM

RJ said Thom cannot channel and he never meant Thom to be capable of channeling. So unless Brandon decides to change that, it's not going to happen.

 

No, RJ said that Thom cannot channel, and he never meant people to think he could. That is not to say he is incapable of learning.

 

Well, Tony Zbaraschuk reported that he said "Absolutely not. I never intended anyone to think he could", which I guess is what you referred to, but Edward Liu seemed to have been the one who asked the question, and he remembered RJ's response as "There is no way in hell Thom can channel".

I agree both statements don't literally exclude Thom having the potential to learn, but it is implied in RJ's incredulity, and his use of the word 'could'.

 

You forget the context. Both questions were asked of the old theory that Thom could channel from the Eye of the World--that was supposed to be why his cloak was singed in Winternight, why Moiraine agreed so easily for him to come with them--as a potential teacher for Rand or to get him to the Tower without a fight depending on who you ask--why there was a flash of blue light when he fought the Myrdraal (which according to RJ occured before he reached the Myrdraal).

 

The degree of incredulity was due to the strength of the concept that Thom could already channel. He couldn't. RJ never meant people to think he could. But that doesn't rule out him learning.

[yoniy0]

I agree it COULD happen, I just don't think it WOULD. I still think RJ's response is indicative of that, but it's more than that. WoT isn't the Belgariad, and Thom isn't Durnik. Not everything will be tied up in a nice little bow by the end of the story. RJ's more likely to take channeling away from Moiraine than he is to give it to Thom, in my estimate.

 

(Boy, how I hope aunt_pol won't see this post)

[TheDecline01]

Ok, so clear answer: RAFO right?

 

Interesting posts by the way. I kinda love all of those ancient quotes from RJ and their interpretations as a newbie that never had a chance to hear them live.

 

Another question (I know, I love that, I'm a curious boy):

 

Is the amount of power a sa'angreal allows you to channel related anywhere to its size?

 

We've seen both the Koedan Chal and Callandor which are both bigger, in an obvious way, than other angreal/sa'angreal (I'm thinking about the fat little man with a sword that Rand can put in his pocket), the culmination of it being the Koedan Chal which are just gigantic. Because, if that is a rule, we could expect the famous 2nd strongest male sa'angreal ever, if it still exists, to be something quite big.

[aunt_pol]

*Bump* !!

 

Is it possible that the DO is depleted by people using the True Power? If it's addictive, and binds his followers more closely to him, why's he so stingy with it?

 

Any ideers?

[Shadow Rider]

*Bump* !!

 

Is it possible that the DO is depleted by people using the True Power? If it's addictive, and binds his followers more closely to him, why's he so stingy with it?

 

Any ideers?

 

I think you'll have to ask the DO himself.

 

Can anyone provide a Quote or Reference from RJ stating that Heronless swords were presented to the Common soldier?

[yoniy0]

Will you accept Lan's original comment on marked swords as having belonged to lords?

"One of those swords, a plain soldier's sword" - with a faint grimace, almost sad, if the Warder could be said to show emotion, he slid the blade back into its sheath - "became something more. On the other hand, those made for lord-generals, with blades so hard no bladesmith could mark them, yet marked already with a heron, those blades became sought after."

[Loony Theory Trolloc]

"Oh, yes," Rafela said happily, and she regaled them with arcane customs while they walked along the Tower's first level, some as silly as wearing blue stockings when leaving Tar Valon, some as sensible as refraining from marriage. Aes Sedai did marry now and then, but Moiraine could not see how that could end other than poorly.

 

Okay, so I have two comments. The first, I'm not sure this custom is as binding as some. Moiraine's comment on what other AS do seems to suggest that, though she could've meant non-Blues. The second, we see just before this exchange that Rafela is crazy with bringing back customs that were kept hundreds of years ago. It may be that this was strongly enforced at one time, but recently sisters were allowed to ignore it.

 

I thought Ajah rules were binding, but what you said about Rafela and obsolete rules makes sense to me. Otherwise Siuan certainly would have told Gareth about that,too, I think.

 

I was under the impression that Rand did not know that it was in fact the TP because he was always refering to it as kind of a mysterious power.

Why then does he refrain from using it ever since, actively thinking of ways to resist the temptation?

 

I thought Rand refrained from using because of the danger of the amount of power, similar to the CK. He also thought, that he didn't know which of these powers was more dangerous. - We see what nearly happens when he uses the CK in VOG.

 

(I curse myself for not reading the orginal books, because now it's hard to quote and the translation partially was very poor. Well, but I was young and lazy when I startet reading WOT in the 90s^^.)

 

In the middle of chapter 29 ("In Bandar Eban")Rand thought about the TP as a "new power", then about AOLers drilling the bore and then again about the TP as "nameless power". To me it really sounds if he has no idea that it's the TP or that he doesn't want to admit it to himself, maybe.

[aunt_pol]

Yeah, but LTT was bellowing in his lugs, "We can't use that, it is him!"

 

I think very quickly Rand realised what it was.

[yoniy0]

It's also worth remembering that the TP doesn't actually equal the CK for power. It merely feels that much more addictive. Brandon was making a point.

[Ashaman Kovan]

WoT isn't the Belgariad, and Thom isn't Durnik.

 

Uhh of course not, duh. Perrin is Durnik...Geeze. And Olver is Eriond, who is actually the Creator...

[TheDecline01]

Another question (I know, I love that, I'm a curious boy):

 

Is the amount of power a sa'angreal allows you to channel related anywhere to its size?

 

We've seen both the Koedan Chal and Callandor which are both bigger, in an obvious way, than other angreal/sa'angreal (I'm thinking about the fat little man with a sword that Rand can put in his pocket), the culmination of it being the Koedan Chal which are just gigantic. Because, if that is a rule, we could expect the famous 2nd strongest male sa'angreal ever, if it still exists, to be something quite big.

 

Any answer?

 

Besides, I was wondering whether there were female sa'angreal as powerful as Callandor. We've the Bowl of Wind or Weather, but it's made in the purpose of controlling the weather, not to increase one's strength. Don't women have very powerful, single person sa'angreal?

[Ashaman Kovan]

They did have one. The female CK.

[Sharaman]

RJ said Thom cannot channel and he never meant Thom to be capable of channeling. So unless Brandon decides to change that, it's not going to happen.

 

No, RJ said that Thom cannot channel, and he never meant people to think he could. That is not to say he is incapable of learning.

Q: Can Thom channel?

RJ: Absolutely not. I never intended anyone to think he could.

(Edward Liu) I brought up the hereditary point (i.e. Owyn) but he said just because your parents have a particular gene doesn't mean you'll receive that particular gene. Also he made a point that Owyn was Thom's nephew so therefore not necessarily very similar gene-wise. When I pressed him again on it, he said (I'm quoting) 'There is no way in hell Thom can channel.' All he offered for explanations is that Thom is a 'mysterious man.'

 

"No way in hell" would strongly imply that he cannot learn.

 

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

Is it possible that the DO is depleted by people using the True Power? If it's addictive, and binds his followers more closely to him, why's he so stingy with it?

 

With reference to this question, here is a Jordan quote regarding the Dark One's personality:

 

The Dark One is not pleasant. He is also highly distrustful. He…dislikes…things that happen outside his control or not at his order. Call him the ur-control freak.  [...] It isn't that he believes anyone can harm him, just that he is in charge, and your failure to ask permission, your presumed intention to do something he wouldn't like, means that your faithfulness quotient has just suffered a severe downturn.

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/tor-questions-of-week.html

 

He's stingy with his power because that is his nature.  He wants to be in total control, all the time.  Remember, the only time we've seen him pissed was when he was commenting on something outside of his control (conversation with Demandred re: balefire).  It is unlikely that the Dark One can be "depleted" any more than the True Source can be.

 

It's also worth remembering that the TP doesn't actually equal the CK for power. It merely feels that much more addictive. Brandon was making a point.

 

I think it was more than that.  Rand seems to think that the amount of power he held when channeling the True Power unaided is comparable to the amount of Power he held when channeling through the Choedan Kal.  This is distinct from his thoughts about its addictiveness.

 

To quote Rand's thoughts:

 

It made him alive, made him realize that he'd never been alive before. [comment on addictiveness] It gave him such strength as he'd never imagined.  It rivaled, even, the power he'd held when drawing from the Choedan Kal. [comment on strength, a separate assessment].

 

TGS ch 22

 

Using the True Power requires the Dark One's specific approval for each use, so, in a sense, it is the Dark One himself acting in the world through an agent.  As such, it is unlikely that there are any limits to it, in the same sense that there are limits to what a person can channel with the One Power.  The One Power is all about rules; the True Power is all about breaking them.

[DemandredFO]

I'm pretty sure the most powerful one the AS have is that rod(I forget its name) that Egwene used against the Seanchan.  It's also the same one they used to heal Mat.  As for equal to Callandor, the Male CK and that mysterious one inbetween, they, at least Callandor and CK were created as weapons, so they might be outside the norm anyway.

[aunt_pol]

@Norellyjustsomeguy: thanks for that. It does make sense, I guess.

[Shadow Rider]

Will you accept Lan's original comment on marked swords as having belonged to lords?

"One of those swords, a plain soldier's sword" - with a faint grimace, almost sad, if the Warder could be said to show emotion, he slid the blade back into its sheath - "became something more. On the other hand, those made for lord-generals, with blades so hard no bladesmith could mark them, yet marked already with a heron, those blades became sought after."

 

No.....this only explains that Lan does not know the swords true Origin, only that it belonged to a soldier once..... by the sound of it a few have owned the 2 swords through 3000yrs.

Was it made specifically for the soldier? or..... was it a trophy a soldier found?

 

I am still wondering why only 2, I suppose you could argue that because they don't have Herons, they weren't a sort after, but, no.... I'm not convinced.

[Durinax]

Will you accept Lan's original comment on marked swords as having belonged to lords?

"One of those swords, a plain soldier's sword" - with a faint grimace, almost sad, if the Warder could be said to show emotion, he slid the blade back into its sheath - "became something more. On the other hand, those made for lord-generals, with blades so hard no bladesmith could mark them, yet marked already with a heron, those blades became sought after."

 

No.....this only explains that Lan does not know the swords true Origin, only that it belonged to a soldier once..... by the sound of it a few have owned the 2 swords through 3000yrs.

Was it made specifically for the soldier? or..... was it a trophy a soldier found?

 

I am still wondering why only 2, I suppose you could argue that because they don't have Herons, they weren't a sort after, but, no.... I'm not convinced.

those regular swords would have been like a medal of honour (purely guessing) and most of them would have been lost during battles and such, thats why few of them still exist