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Luckers

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The balefire thread has no posts since March and I don't want to necro it. So I figure I'll ask here. Is there any commentary reconciling this balefire inconsistency?

 

Balefire is more than Fire and Air:

TITLE: A Crown of Swords

CHAPTER: 41 - A Crown of Swords

 

His hands rose, and he wove balefire. Began to weave it. Someone else's cheek stung from a remembered slap, and Cadsuane's voice hissed and crackled in his head like the holes the red filaments had made. Never again, boy; you will never do that again. It seemed that he heard Lews Therin whimpering in distant fear of what he was about to loose, what had almost destroyed the world once. Every flow but Fire and Air fell away, and he wove as he had seen. A thousand fine hairs of red blossomed between his hands, fanning out slightly they shot upward. A circle of the ceiling two feet across fell in stone chips and plaster dust.

 

Balefire is only Fire and Air:

TITLE: The Gathering Storm

CHAPTER: 47 - The One He Lost

 

Screaming at them all, he wove threads of Air and Fire. Lews Therin howled in his head, saidin tried to destroy both of them, and the quiet voice inside Rand's heart vanished.

 

The prick of light grew in front of Rand, sprouting from the center of the access key. The weaves for balefire spun before him, and the access key grew brighter as he drew in more power.

 

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It's fine to necro threads, but this questions fine here too.

 

It's possible that the weave involves several threads of earth and fire, and that Rand let go of some of them and used the others for Fire Arrows. Alternately maybe you weave earth and fire first, and then later add other threads--the second quote does speak of 'the weaves for balefire' some time after weaving those first threads of earth and fire.

 

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I don't know if this has been asked but does it ever say that Cyndane/Lanfear actualy died in finnland. I always thought that she had gone once before and got her beauty and power, I remember from TGH Min's warning to Perrin about running away from the most beautiful women he's ever seen and Lolial's comment on her beauty which made it seem to me that it was unnatural and I think in WH Cyndane mentions something about power.

 

I always thought that they returned her to her original form and power

 

Just to clarify is it ever mentionned that she actualy dies?

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I don't know if this has been asked but does it ever say that Cyndane/Lanfear actualy died in finnland. I always thought that she had gone once before and got her beauty and power, I remember from TGH Min's warning to Perrin about running away from the most beautiful women he's ever seen and Lolial's comment on her beauty which made it seem to me that it was unnatural and I think in WH Cyndane mentions something about power.

 

I always thought that they returned her to her original form and power

 

Just to clarify is it ever mentionned that she actualy dies?

 

The general consensus is that she was stilled and died and was then healed by a woman as the transmigration did not fix the stilling, but there is nothing in the books besides the new name to contradict your theory.

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Every time we're introduced to Caemlyn the fifty foot high walls are mentioned, but are we ever told how thick the walls are? I don't think we are and it annoys me.  :P

 

For way of comparison the impregnable walls (until the advent of the canon) of Constantinople were 12 meters high (39 ft) and 5 meters (16ft) thick.

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Can you heal burning out?

 

The traditional answer had been 'No.'  Based on information from the books and the quote about the sister going through the arches and returning with her ability 'burned to nothing' and 'unable to sense the source'. 

 

With the introduction of Cyndane to the story and the dynamics surrounding Lanfear's trip into Finnland and many readers assume that she had 'burned herself out' and has since been healed.  If she were indeed 'burned out' then we know for a fact it can be healed, because her transmigrated persona would have also been burned out.

 

We also have the situation at Dumai's Wells (Pointed out to me by Luckers and Maj) where Rand 'crushes' the points of his shield, which resulted in the 'stilling' of the sisters holding the shield.  This is very similar to the description of what happened to Joiya (or Amico) in TDR Ch. 54, which was also described as a 'stilling' but resulted in her not being able to sense the source.

 

The final example I have is that Suian was still able to sense the source while stilled (somewhere in book 5 i think).

 

So...  I want to say that 'burning out' and 'stilling' have the same effect on a person, but the method by which they accomplish it are different.  I would say that 'burning out' is like a light bulb that becomes bured out and you have to change the bulb, while 'stilling' is like a short-circuit that requires some rewiring.

 

So, yes 'burning out' can be healed.  But along with my previous statement, the healing would be different.

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I don't know if this has been asked but does it ever say that Cyndane/Lanfear actualy died in finnland. I always thought that she had gone once before and got her beauty and power, I remember from TGH Min's warning to Perrin about running away from the most beautiful women he's ever seen and Lolial's comment on her beauty which made it seem to me that it was unnatural and I think in WH Cyndane mentions something about power.

 

I always thought that they returned her to her original form and power

 

Just to clarify is it ever mentionned that she actualy dies?

 

The general consensus is that she was stilled and died and was then healed by a woman as the transmigration did not fix the stilling, but there is nothing in the books besides the new name to contradict your theory.

 

Am I correct in my understanding that channelling ability is in both the soul and the body? If so, perhaps if you transmigrate a strong-channeller soul into a weaker body, would that account for the drop in Cyndane/Lanfear's strength?

 

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I don't know if this has been asked but does it ever say that Cyndane/Lanfear actualy died in finnland. I always thought that she had gone once before and got her beauty and power, I remember from TGH Min's warning to Perrin about running away from the most beautiful women he's ever seen and Lolial's comment on her beauty which made it seem to me that it was unnatural and I think in WH Cyndane mentions something about power.

 

I always thought that they returned her to her original form and power

 

Just to clarify is it ever mentionned that she actualy dies?

 

The general consensus is that she was stilled and died and was then healed by a woman as the transmigration did not fix the stilling, but there is nothing in the books besides the new name to contradict your theory.

 

Am I correct in my understanding that channelling ability is in both the soul and the body? If so, perhaps if you transmigrate a strong-channeller soul into a weaker body, would that account for the drop in Cyndane/Lanfear's strength?

 

I was always under the impression that the ability to channel and what you channel (saidin/saidar) is attached to the soul (i.e. Arangar).  And the strength in the OP is tied to the body.

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I don't know if this has been asked but does it ever say that Cyndane/Lanfear actualy died in finnland. I always thought that she had gone once before and got her beauty and power, I remember from TGH Min's warning to Perrin about running away from the most beautiful women he's ever seen and Lolial's comment on her beauty which made it seem to me that it was unnatural and I think in WH Cyndane mentions something about power.

 

I always thought that they returned her to her original form and power

 

Just to clarify is it ever mentionned that she actualy dies?

 

That's actually a pretty interesting idea... you should look and see if they ever describe what Mierin looked like.  Although if it was a wish of some kind that gave her more power than she has now, that may be why she was so certain that she was as powerful in sai'dar as it was possible for a woman to be... and she was a researcher, so who knows what she had uncovered... still, something like that might feel like it came out of nowhere, since I don't know she's ever talked about having met the Eelfinn before.

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I don't know if this has been asked but does it ever say that Cyndane/Lanfear actualy died in finnland. I always thought that she had gone once before and got her beauty and power, I remember from TGH Min's warning to Perrin about running away from the most beautiful women he's ever seen and Lolial's comment on her beauty which made it seem to me that it was unnatural and I think in WH Cyndane mentions something about power.

 

I always thought that they returned her to her original form and power

 

Just to clarify is it ever mentionned that she actualy dies?

 

That's actually a pretty interesting idea... you should look and see if they ever describe what Mierin looked like.  Although if it was a wish of some kind that gave her more power than she has now, that may be why she was so certain that she was as powerful in sai'dar as it was possible for a woman to be... and she was a researcher, so who knows what she had uncovered... still, something like that might feel like it came out of nowhere, since I don't know she's ever talked about having met the Eelfinn before.

We all know that Lanfear is completely full of herself, so we do not really know if this is true, do we?

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Can you heal burning out?

The traditional answer had been 'No.'

[...]

So, yes 'burning out' can be healed.  But along with my previous statement, the healing would be different.

Actually, regardless of what's written in the books, RJ confirmed that Stilled channelers can still sense the Source, while Burned-out channelers cannot.

Regarding Healing, as we've only seen Stilling (and Gentling) Healed very recently, it's too early to say if Burning-out could be Healed as well. The question has been RAFOed on several occasions (and if memory serves, this one is an on-screen RAFO, i.e. we will eventually FO).

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Question: Since there is a growing bond between Rand and Moridin - and we know that LTT is aware of this - would it be possible for LTT to snag the power from Moridin at some point?

 

Honestly I would see it as kind of a poor end to Moridin, but I would also love to see LTT fighting in the LB in some way. Also, this gives us a whole new take on the Dragon's blood being spilled at the LB.

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Can you heal burning out?

The traditional answer had been 'No.'

[...]

So, yes 'burning out' can be healed.  But along with my previous statement, the healing would be different.

Actually, regardless of what's written in the books, RJ confirmed that Stilled channelers can still sense the Source, while Burned-out channelers cannot.

Regarding Healing, as we've only seen Stilling (and Gentling) Healed very recently, it's too early to say if Burning-out could be Healed as well. The question has been RAFOed on several occasions (and if memory serves, this one is an on-screen RAFO, i.e. we will eventually FO).

 

This, too.  Thanks Yoniy0  :)

 

I just want to add that, the AS Flinn healed were all cut off from the source in a way that was termed 'stilled' in the books.  The answer may be revealed when we learn more about what happened to Lanfear with the Finns.  

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martymart, I've had this argument before, so if you don't agree we'll have to leave it at that. But just in case you forgot/never thought of it, I think the whole point was that there is no spoon (urgh, sorry, no LTT, it's just Rand going mad).

 

JakeBarnes, I think it's likeliest that we'll know for sure when Sattele meets Nyneave/Flinn.

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