Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Sharaman]

Apparently, they also need the Dragon banner, from what Artur Hawkwing said about 'somethng holding' him.

 

It's been hotly debated and disputed on one of these forums as to whether that flag is always necessary. Among other reasons given because Hawkwing says he's fought against Lews Therin in the past.

However, the point is, the hornblower's opposition is unimportant - the heroes will fight against anyone.

If Hawkwing was alive, he wouldn't come when the Horn was blown. Only dead heroes are raised by the Horn.

 

[Hadilmir]

Wait, what's to debate? The Horn of Valere is a tool of the Pattern, and will follow the horn-sounder whoever he/she may be, good or evil, balance. Then there is the Dragon and the Dragon Banner; the Pattern's Champion takes precedence over the Pattern's tool and so the Heroes will either fight for the horn-sounder if the Dragon is not present or fight for the Dragon if he is there. (Ohh wait, you guys all think the Dragon is the Creator's Champion...)

[Sharaman]

Wait, what's to debate? The Horn of Valere is a tool of the Pattern, and will follow the horn-sounder whoever he/she may be, good or evil, balance. Then there is the Dragon and the Dragon Banner; the Pattern's Champion takes precedence over the Pattern's tool and so the Heroes will either fight for the horn-sounder if the Dragon is not present or fight for the Dragon if he is there. (Ohh wait, you guys all think the Dragon is the Creator's Champion...)

 

Hawkwing says they've also fought against the Dragon - presumably when the hornsounder is on the opposite side to the Dragon. So there is something to debate. RJ made a puzzling statement in this context about how legends change, etc., which doesn't really clarify anything. 

 

[shadowkiller_001]

Personally, when I read that I just thought that it meant that Hawking was sensing that the pattern required Rand to declare himself the Dragon Reborn.

I thought of it as just a one time occurence that Hawking was sensing at that moment. Not that the banner has to be there every time, but that the pattern required it this time only.

[FarShainMael]

Could be.

 

On another subject.. Has the cleansing of saidin improved the Ways, and got rid of Machin Shin?

 

[Dreamwalker]

Could be.

 

On another subject.. Has the cleansing of saidin improved the Ways, and got rid of Machin Shin?

 

 

I would doubt it, and here's why: any insanity men already had as an effect of the taint stayed - they just stopped getting worse. So I think that in the same way, the effects of the taint on the Ways probably wouldn't get better, they just won't get worse. (though the Ways could still get worse from Fain's influence)

[deviant728]

This is one thing I have never understood; how are the ways, the taint, and Fain connected? I always thought the ways were something akin to a permanent structure created in the zone between skim-gates. If that is the case, and if they were created using tainted Saidin, I can understand a connection between the taint and the ways. How does Fain then enter into the equation? How does Machin Sin recognize Fain and obey him? Is that due to the DO's influence on him, or a result of his Shadar Logoth experience?

 

As a side note, we know shadowspawn cannot enter waygates; if the Ways are indeed the in-between zone of Skim-gates, how can they even enter the ways? Does that mean trollocs can Skim with a Forsaken?

[Durinax]

The ways are an artificial world, created through the study of portal stones, at least thats how I understand them

 

Fain, I believe it is his unique combination of SL and the Dark One, between the two MS could not stand it. It could be because of the direct touch of the dark one, the same essense which created it

[farthammer]

Aren't the Ways in some sense alive?  Couldn't they possibly be tainted similar to how a person is tainted like Fain or men channeling saidin?

[bronnt]

Aren't the Ways in some sense alive?  Couldn't they possibly be tainted similar to how a person is tainted like Fain or men channeling saidin?

 

I seriously can't respond to your question since I'm overcome by how great your screen name is.

[Ashaman Kovan]

I always thought Machin Shin was the sort of physical, definitely mental embodiment of the taint on Saidin.

[nyquil99]

My Questions:

 

1) In TGS how much time passed when Rand left Tear to go to Ebou Dar and finally to Dragonmount?

 

2) In the EotW prologue Betrayer of Hope says that "men" gave LTT the name Dragon, do we know why? (I thought I saw someone else ask this but didn't see an answer)

• Also when was he given this name, before or after he sealed the bore?
  
• Did the Dragon name/symbol have some other meaning before it was given to LTT? (I guess I'm trying to figure out what it means)
  

 

[OptimusPrime]

Pretty sure Machin Sin came about because of the taint.

[FarShainMael]

Here's what EncWoT has to say about the Ways. They were grown with the Talisman of Growing, but using tainted saidin:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/creatures/ogier/ways.html

 

According to Loial (TEotW Ch43) the Ways started to decay about a thousand years ago, and Machin Shin appeared.

 

It does seem likely that MS was a side-effect or product of the taint, but I don't think that's stated explicitly.

 

 

[csarmi]

why didnt the aes sedai use travelling to ensure that the raiding party of the seanchans does not manage to get back to Ebou Dar? Surely there were warders who could locate their "stolen" aes sedais.

 

I think this - and several things about the Seanchan raid - look like a huge plothole, actually.

[farthammer]

Not really.  If you come under attack the last thing you want to do is start dispersing all over chasing raiding parties.  At best you may recover a few of your losses or at worst you make yourself even more vulnerable since you don't know the Seanchan don't have something bigger coming.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

How much time has passed since the raid?  Egwene has been raised, but have the Seanchan gotten back to their allies?  We could (potentially) see some rescue attempts in ToM. 

[Ashaman Kovan]

Except for the fact that a lot of them were on Raken, flying. It's a little hard to make a gateway to catch someone who is flying through the air. And the fact that only a bare handful of Aes Sedai in the Tower even know how to Travel.  Not to mention they have to learn the area even if enough Aes Sedai could be taught the Weave or had the strength. I don't think we've ever seen anyone chase a moving target using Gateways. Unless you count Rand chasing Asmodean and Sammael and Rhavin. But those are completely different scenarios. I suppose them knowing where they're heading would help. But like the person above said, we may still see some kind of rescue attempt(s).

[Durinax]

Except for the fact that a lot of them were on Raken, flying. It's a little hard to make a gateway to catch someone who is flying through the air. And the fact that only a bare handful of Aes Sedai in the Tower even know how to Travel.  Not to mention they have to learn the area even if enough Aes Sedai could be taught the Weave or had the strength. I don't think we've ever seen anyone chase a moving target using Gateways. Unless you count Rand chasing Asmodean and Sammael and Rhavin. But those are completely different scenarios. I suppose them knowing where they're heading would help. But like the person above said, we may still see some kind of rescue attempt(s).

we saw rand and company chase the seanchan on the border of illian and ebou dar. Plus its been stated that if you open a gateway at teh same spot that you landed at it is possible, holding the power makes the person learn the land alot faster

[farthammer]

I don't remember from the books if Rand was chasing them around in such a way but even if they were what good would that do the Aes Sedai?  They can't attack them while bound under the oaths.  They couldn't really do anything about it.  The same reason they didn't go after the AS that went to the black tower.  The same reason they didn't go after AS that were captured by the Seanchan in previous encounters.

 

Now they have an Amyrlin that knows the secrets of their collar who just happens to have a friend that can make Ter`angreal, and can come up with a plan that's not completely suicidal.  But breaking the Seanchan ability to wage war with the power will be a greater priority than rescuing any single AS captive.

[Durinax]

I don't remember from the books if Rand was chasing them around in such a way but even if they were what good would that do the Aes Sedai?  They can't attack them while bound under the oaths.  They couldn't really do anything about it.  The same reason they didn't go after the AS that went to the black tower.  The same reason they didn't go after AS that were captured by the Seanchan in previous encounters.

 

Now they have an Amyrlin that knows the secrets of their collar who just happens to have a friend that can make Ter`angreal, and can come up with a plan that's not completely suicidal.  But breaking the Seanchan ability to wage war with the power will be a greater priority than rescuing any single AS captive.

well one thing I can think of is that they go as a squad, with some of the squad siezing the raken in air, the others creating a shield against attacks, and once the attacks start they can fight back because their lives are at risk

[farthammer]

Ah you are just pulling random shit out of your ass at this point.  They barely knew what to do when their own WT was under siege, many of them not even strong enough to form a gateway, they probably couldn't even slow down a pigeon at distance.  The whole idea is terrible.

[csarmi]

Except for the fact that a lot of them were on Raken, flying. It's a little hard to make a gateway to catch someone who is flying through the air.

 

Why would that be? They can use triangulation to find them if just one single warder has her Aes Sedai captured. They could find them anyway.

 

And the fact that only a bare handful of Aes Sedai in the Tower even know how to Travel.  Not to mention they have to learn the area even if enough Aes Sedai could be taught the Weave or had the strength. I don't think we've ever seen anyone chase a moving target using Gateways.

 

ALL the rebels know travelling and they have sa'angreals, angreals and linking which the Seanchan do NOT have. They - Egwene at least - know how to fight them rakens AND the seanchan effectively and she also knows it's a raid and that they can easily subdue them.

 

Not much about tis attack makes sense anyway. Egwene is acting stupid as hell. Why not bring an army of rebel aes sedai inside to kill all the invaders, she has travelling and an angreal stash.

 

How on earth can she believe Elaida is still in power after the attack when she KNOWS the seanchan have cleaned the upper levels not to mention what happened in the raid itself? How could she even THINK about attacking the tower when she has won the fight vs Elaida AND she is supposed to know that. She is not thinking straight. None in the rebel camnp do, actually.

 

Well, the whole rebel army communication system sucks. I mean they can't react to threats like this any fast as they have no Aes Sedai close to Gareth Bryne who CAN travel. Come on...

 

[farthammer]

Triangulation?  Lol are AS GPS satellites now?  You're trying to bend the details of the story around your desire to read something into the situation that's not there.  There's a war going on inside a building, yeah sure suddenly import a large number of even more confused people right into the middle of it sounds like a recipe for success.

[clu7ch]

Simple question? maybe not

 

LTT, in the EoTW prologue killed himself. Did he in fact use balefire to do so? If so, we have never before seen anything react to balefire such as the earth did in that moment. We witnessed Rand blowing a fortress away with CK fueled bf, and it disappeared, no ground upheaval of any kind. Also, given the nature of balefire, this brings up the 'you shoot yourself in the foot with it, what happens?' question, obviously this is the prime example. He obviously died, but wouldn't it negate a few of his actions? IE creating dragonmount, maybe even killing his wifey. (depending on how far in the past that was)

 

I don't know but it's been bugging me.