Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[thisguy]

I have a question.

 

When was it first clear that Thom and Morain were to be a couple?

 

I didn't caught it until I read the letter for thom from Morain, and it kinda caught me by surprise.

I knew that Morain had someone that she loved, but I didn't know it was Thom...

It is not clear at all until the letter. They travel together and get split up at Shadar Logoth. Thom saves the boys from the Myrdraal. We meet him next in Cairhien, when Rand arrives there hunting the horn. Mat meets him on his way to Tear in book 3 in Tar Valon. Then, Moiraine goes to the 3 Fold Land while Thom goes to watch the BA hunters. Aside from the letter (which she gives him in Tear), that's all the connection they have on screen.

[Whizbang]

There are a few hints you can catch on a second read. Moraine says something slightly suggestive when Rand tells her Thom died in tEotW. I don't remmeber the exact quote, but I know I've noted it when re-reading. Also, when Rand finds Thom in Cairhien (TGH), Thom makes a favorable comment about Moraine, despite her being Aes Sedai. Again, I don't remember the exact quote. Then there is the scene in book four when Moraine goes to Thom's room and asks him to stop playing the Great Game on Rand's behalf (Thom is trying to entrench Rand in Tear, where Moraine wants him to march out into the world). She heals him and there is some minor flirting in the form of mutual respect and admiration. There may be comments made later than this, but I haven't read the middle books in a while. I am 3/4 through TGH right now, on a re-read.

[Sid]

I have a question.

 

When was it first clear that Thom and Morain were to be a couple?

 

I didn't caught it until I read the letter for thom from Morain, and it kinda caught me by surprise.

I knew that Morain had someone that she loved, but I didn't know it was Thom...

It is not clear at all until the letter. They travel together and get split up at Shadar Logoth. Thom saves the boys from the Myrdraal. We meet him next in Cairhien, when Rand arrives there hunting the horn. Mat meets him on his way to Tear in book 3 in Tar Valon. Then, Moiraine goes to the 3 Fold Land while Thom goes to watch the BA hunters. Aside from the letter (which she gives him in Tear), that's all the connection they have on screen.

It's not 'clear' until the letter, though there are some hints sprinkled in there. Thom is the only character in the series that makes Moiriane laugh. A few comments by Thom in the vein of 'a fine woman if she weren't Aes Sedai'. They have a chapter together in Tear where she basically manhandles him in the game of houses, and they show a mutual 'professional' respect. She doesn't even give him the letter directly, actually. She gives it to Rand before she dies at the docks, he gives it to Mat, and Mat gives it to Thom when he Travels to Salidar.

[thisguy]

There are a few hints you can catch on a second read. Moraine says something slightly suggestive when Rand tells her Thom died in tEotW. I don't remmeber the exact quote, but I know I've noted it when re-reading. Also, when Rand finds Thom in Cairhien (TGH), Thom makes a favorable comment about Moraine, despite her being Aes Sedai. Again, I don't remember the exact quote. Then there is the scene in book four when Moraine goes to Thom's room and asks him to stop playing the Great Game on Rand's behalf (Thom is trying to entrench Rand in Tear, where Moraine wants him to march out into the world). She heals him and there is some minor flirting in the form of mutual respect and admiration. There may be comments made later than this, but I haven't read the middle books in a while. I am 3/4 through TGH right now, on a re-read.

Yeah, when she goes into his room - he has the ink bottles out, right? or a writing set or something like that - I remember that. Just doesn't seem like a lot. But, many of the love interests have little interaction before becoming smitten. Nynaeve and Lan are love at first sight, Elayne and Rand don't take much, Avi falls for him quickly too... the one I get the least is Mat and Tuon. I like the story, actually, it's just a leap of faith to get into the headset that they're both fine with it... Well, it's more a leap of faith believing he is. She's so into signs and portents, I can believe it.

[yoniy0]

My list of clues:

1. Moiraine insists that Thom isn't dead, although she cannot possibly be sure of that. This happens in TEoTW and then again in TGH. The importance isn't known until TSR (clue 3).

2. Thom apparently thinks well of her, as we learn in Cairhien (TGH).

3. Moiraine let it slip that she knows who she's going to marry in the Stone (TSR). She tells Thom that she knows they'll meet again. This hints at a Viewing of Min's, likely made in Baerlon (linking back to clue 1).

4. Thom and Moiraine share more affectionate thoughts in their meeting in the Stone (TSR).

5. The way Thom reacts when Mat delivers the letter, commenting on the women in his life (LoC? ACoS?).

6. The wording of the letter, and the fact that it doesn't mention the Reds whose names Moiraine promised to reveal to Thom. The readers, I think, had to assume that this is what the letter was about, even though Moiraine did say she'll tell him about it the next time they meet.

 

I didn't catch that thing about making her laugh. It's actually a very astute observation, Sid. Has it been verified?

[thisguy]

My list of clues:

1. Moiraine insists that Thom isn't dead, although she cannot possibly be sure of that. This happens in TEoTW and then again in TGH. The importance isn't known until TSR (clue 3).

2. Thom apparently thinks well of her, as we learn in Cairhien (TGH).

3. Moiraine let it slip that she knows who she's going to marry in the Stone (TSR). She tells Thom that she knows they'll meet again. This hints at a Viewing of Min's, likely made in Baerlon (linking back to clue 1).

4. Thom and Moiraine share more affectionate thoughts in their meeting in the Stone (TSR).

5. The way Thom reacts when Mat delivers the letter, commenting on the women in his life (LoC? ACoS?).

6. The wording of the letter, and the fact that it doesn't mention the Reds whose names Moiraine promised to reveal to Thom. The readers, I think, had to assume that this is what the letter was about, even though Moiraine did say she'll tell him about it the next time they meet.

 

I didn't catch that thing about making her laugh. It's actually a very astute observation, Sid. Has it been verified?

 

I see what you're saying. I think as a reader what we need to do in these books is just realize that love at first sight reigns in WoT.

[Sid]

I didn't catch that thing about making her laugh. It's actually a very astute observation, Sid. Has it been verified?

 

Well, I thought it was, but then ideal seek disproved it. She does laugh in New Spring, with Siuan, though that would be expected. But there was one other time in Fal Dara that she laughed at Anaiya wishing she had a sister from among the Aiel people.

She laughed bitterly at Egwene's notion of her being able to kill Mashadar when they were in Shadar Logoth.

The other times I could find were with Thom, though, so you could say he was the only man in the series to make her laugh, I guess.

[Crisapx]

Well, most of the clues given here don't really indicate a romantic situation, just that they can get along, despite Morain being Aes Sedai and that they have a certain degree of respect for each other and value each other skills.

 

Altough I think that there is something in that one where Morain knows for sure that Thom is alive, which may link to a Min viewing, that links to Morain saying that she knows who she is to marry...I really think this one is very much possible.

[mb]

If it was only wanting, why she thought Galina should be punish for "failing in that" ?

As for Galina, the quote could be one of these::

-speculation

-prediction

-possibly a Foretelling

not necessarily a want of Galina to be punished; nor necessarily a thing Elaida thought should happen.

Though if a want, same sentence (for Gawyn) could be one reason for also that.

Edited October 5, 2012 by mb

[yoniy0]

I think as a reader what we need to do in these books is just realize that love at first sight reigns in WoT.

Not to rain on your parade, but they've traveled together for several weeks. How long does it take you to fall in love? Me, usually much less than that (not that we're talking about a large sample, but still).

[Maleshub]

I think as a reader what we need to do in these books is just realize that love at first sight reigns in WoT.

Not to rain on your parade, but they've traveled together for several weeks. How long does it take you to fall in love? Me, usually much less than that (not that we're talking about a large sample, but still).

 

Thom made Moiraine laugh in Taren Ferry with his act to intimidate the ferry owner. She gave a low delighted laugh. The only time in the book where I remember Moiraine laughing in delight.

[yoniy0]

Thom made Moiraine laugh in Taren Ferry with his act to intimidate the ferry owner. She gave a low delighted laugh. The only time in the book where I remember Moiraine laughing in delight.

What do you mean?

(In point of fact, Siuan did make her laugh in delight in NStN, but I presume that's beside the point.)

[thisguy]

I think as a reader what we need to do in these books is just realize that love at first sight reigns in WoT.

Not to rain on your parade, but they've traveled together for several weeks. How long does it take you to fall in love? Me, usually much less than that (not that we're talking about a large sample, but still).

Sure, and on screen have barely spoken. How about Elayne and Rand and Gawyn and Egwene? Was their much love development in their burgeoning love? Most of Egwene and Gawyn's are in her mind and dreams, not in real life.

[okigo]

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

[Suttree]

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

 

Yes she does, it was an obvious cover up on his part and she picked up on it.

[thisguy]

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

 

Yes she does, it was an obvious cover up on his part and she picked up on it.

Yeah, when she says the three Mat's my husbands, she mentions that she was given a foretelling and that she knew Mat remembered his face.

[yoniy0]

Sure, and on screen have barely spoken. How about Elayne and Rand and Gawyn and Egwene? Was their much love development in their burgeoning love? Most of Egwene and Gawyn's are in her mind and dreams, not in real life.

In every case except Elayne and Rand's the lion share of their exchanges is simply not on screen. That, I'll grant you, was textbook love at first sight.

 

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

Yes she does, it was an obvious cover up on his part and she picked up on it.

She even remarks on that (KoD: Under an Oak, IIRC).

Edited October 4, 2012 by yoniy0

[thisguy]

Sure, and on screen have barely spoken. How about Elayne and Rand and Gawyn and Egwene? Was their much love development in their burgeoning love? Most of Egwene and Gawyn's are in her mind and dreams, not in real life.

In every case except Elayne and Rand's the lion share of their exchanges is simply not on screen. That, I'll grant you, was textbook love at first sight.

 

does Tuon know that Mat actually remembers Hawking's face?

Yes she does, it was an obvious cover up on his part and she picked up on it.

She even remarks on that (KoD: Under an Oak, IIRC).

I was actually going to say Gawyn and Egwene, too. But, that's not correct, she was into Galad first. But, there's no development that isn't internal develpment. You're right, it's not love at first sight, it isn't developed much either, though. Lan's and Nynaeve's was obvious from the moment she tracked them, too.

[Knivy]

What would happen in a Fain/Shadar Haran face off? Fain easily handles other fades, but SH is something special...

[Sid]

What would happen in a Fain/Shadar Haran face off? Fain easily handles other fades, but SH is something special...

 

RAFO? I don't think more than a handful of people can answer your question, and all of them I think are keeping it a secret until January.

[Durinax]

What would happen in a Fain/Shadar Haran face off? Fain easily handles other fades, but SH is something special...

actually I find it interesting that Fain is the last well of dark SL power and and SH is a well of DO power so these twos interaction would be vital

[MasterAblar]

What would happen in a Fain/Shadar Haran face off? Fain easily handles other fades, but SH is something special...

 

They'd probably share a couple beers, and talk about how frustrating Rand is.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Master Ablar

[Knivy]

What would happen in a Fain/Shadar Haran face off? Fain easily handles other fades, but SH is something special...

 

They'd probably share a couple beers, and talk about frustrating Rand is.

 

So you're introducing a third evil into the mix...

[mb]

not sure about Fain & Shadar Haran being wells.

Fain actually has both Shadar Logoth's evil and Dark One's evil in him.

Fain's abilities I would guess would have a similar effect on all servants of the Shadow.

 

 

About Moiraine & Thom, I saw signs of the supposed Viewing during my first read through. I had posted those signs to this forum multiple times during that period (and also afterward).

[DaoineSidhe]

actually Fain's powers do not affect Fades the same way they do Trollocs. Trollocs rise from the dead after being "infected" by his Mashadar fog. Fades just die. At the end of ToM, Fain comments on this to himself.