Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Yup, what Terez said. It's not a lot, but some people really have a thing about spoilers so we're playing it safe.

[Wool-headed lummox]

Simple question: if Sammael was killed by the Mashadar instead of being balefired, why wasn't he ever reincarnated like Aginor/Balthamel/Lanfear/Ishamael?

 

...

 

Or was he?..

[FarShainMael]

Simple question: if Sammael was killed by the Mashadar instead of being balefired, why wasn't he ever reincarnated like Aginor/Balthamel/Lanfear/Ishamael?

 

...

 

Or was he?..

 

Well.. One possibility is that Mashadar is part of the Shadar Logoth evil, that Rand used to destroy the taint. It's likely that the DO would not enjoy contact with such a SL-touched individual (to put it mildly!).

Edited June 26, 2012 by FarShainMael

[dhammett11]

Simple question: if Sammael was killed by the Mashadar instead of being balefired, why wasn't he ever reincarnated like Aginor/Balthamel/Lanfear/Ishamael?

 

...

 

Or was he?..

 

Because that Mashadar taint is super-AIDS as far as the Dark One is concerned. I'm pretty sure it's just that simple.

 

But regardless of the reason, he's definitely not coming back.

[Mr Ares]

Who is the Lord of Chaos, been re-reading the book and perhaps just because I am skimming it/don't remember details of the book, but when the forsaken say let the lord of chaos rule, are they referring to the DO, or ?...

Let the Lord of Chaos rule doesn't refer to a specific person (or entity, in Shai'tan's case), so much as an instruction to spread chaos.

There are pretty convincing theories that the 'Lord of Chaos' does mean Rand as the king of fools. Making him unite the world when there was seemingly no reason to almost broke him with just the stress, so it was a pretty good plan and it frees up the shadow's forces to plan elsewhere.

The idea that Rand is the Lord of Chaos - and thus the Shadow's directive is to let Rand rule - is not consistent with any of the uses of the phrase in the series. In LoC we see the attempt to kidnap and control Rand...

 

The plan for the kidnapping was already in motion when Demandred went to Shayol Ghul in the LOC prologue; there were seventeen days in between the time he went there and the time he met with the other Forsaken, and in that time we had Gawyn's and Katerine's POVs, when the Aes Sedai were making a deal with the Shaido. Part of the reason we know Demandred was involved with the Black Tower at the time is this quote:

 

"I have a few questions of my own. I never thought you would keep your truce with al’Thor any longer than you must, but this...?"

 

The watcher’s eyebrows rose. A truce? A claim as risky as it was false, by all evidence.

 

"I didn’t arrange his kidnapping." Sammael gave her what he probably thought was a wry look; his scar made it more a snarl. "Mesaana had a hand in it, though. Maybe Demandred and Semirhage as well, despite how it ended, but Mesaana certainly. Perhaps you ought to reconsider what you think the Great Lord means about leaving al’Thor unharmed."

 

Taim's rescue of Rand at the last minute is certainly consistent with the idea that Rand is the Lord of Chaos, despite the fact that it's obviously also a reference to chaos as a strategy. And the orders to leave Rand unharmed, as Sammael says, were part of Demandred's instructions (which came to Sammael through Graendal), which is also consistent with Rand being the Lord of Chaos (and letting him rule).

RJ explained why Taim came to Rand's rescue: "On the Asha'man finding Rand in Lord of Chaos, he said that they knew where Rand was. How they did know he began with the following words: "Mazrim Taim is a paranoid S.O.B." [exact quote!]. When finding out of the disappearance of Rand, and a large bunch of Aiel from Cairhien, he followed the route from Cairhien towards Tar Valon by Traveling, until he encountered Elaida's Aes Sedai. From there, he brought in the Asha'man." Rand being the LoC adds nothing here. I fail to see how the quote you posted helps your point in any way. Regardless of when the plan started, Rand was not kidnapped until after it was decided to let him rule - there was time enough to stop the plan going ahead, if they wanted Rand to rule. Rather, their actions removed him from power temporarily. There is, quite simply, nothing to suggest that Rand is the Lord of Chaos. Further, the uses of the phrase outside LoC are consistent with the theory that it is not a specific individual.

 

And Brandon found that surprising because the answer is really obvious. To be honest, I was surprised too; it's not something we debate at Theoryland.

Given that he didn't say what he thought the obvious answer was, that's rather unhelpful.

[Terez]

Taim's rescue of Rand at the last minute is certainly consistent with the idea that Rand is the Lord of Chaos, despite the fact that it's obviously also a reference to chaos as a strategy. And the orders to leave Rand unharmed, as Sammael says, were part of Demandred's instructions (which came to Sammael through Graendal), which is also consistent with Rand being the Lord of Chaos (and letting him rule).

RJ explained why Taim came to Rand's rescue: "On the Asha'man finding Rand in Lord of Chaos, he said that they knew where Rand was. How they did know he began with the following words: "Mazrim Taim is a paranoid S.O.B." [exact quote!].

 

That was not to explain why, but how Taim found him.

 

 

Rand being the LoC adds nothing here. I fail to see how the quote you posted helps your point in any way.

 

That's because you don't want to see it, clearly.

 

Regardless of when the plan started, Rand was not kidnapped until after it was decided to let him rule - there was time enough to stop the plan going ahead, if they wanted Rand to rule.

 

Much better to let him suffer a little bit first, don't you think?

 

There is, quite simply, nothing to suggest that Rand is the Lord of Chaos.

 

That's BS. There's plenty to suggest it, including Brandon saying so, and the evidence you choose to ignore.

 

Further, the uses of the phrase outside LoC are consistent with the theory that it is not a specific individual.

 

Only if you're daft enough to believe that it must be one or the other: an individual or a general strategy of chaos.

 

Given that he didn't say what he thought the obvious answer was, that's rather unhelpful.

 

It's clear he believes it is a person, and that the identity of the person should be obvious, and that is quite enough.

[TristanWebb]

I thought since the lord of chaos thing revealed Taim as a dark friend (I am one of those who are reluctant to resort to darkfriend until explicitly stated) that he saw a rescue was inevitable and so jumped in to show his worth. If Perrin and co hadn't of been right there, I doubt he would of gone in on his lonesome.

 

Question time: Cadsuane said she wanted to teach Rand to laugh and cry, and Min said she had something to teach oth Rand and the asha'man. Rand learnt to laugh and cry pretty much on his own though in VoG, so the question: is 'Cadsuane still has something important to teach Rand and the asha'man' a theory that has been discussed around here?

Edited June 26, 2012 by BenevolentCow

[Vardar]

I thought since the lord of chaos thing revealed Taim as a dark friend (I am one of those who are reluctant to resort to darkfriend until explicitly stated) that he saw a rescue was inevitable and so jumped in to show his worth. If Perrin and co hadn't of been right there, I doubt he would of gone in on his lonesome.

 

Question time: Cadsuane said she wanted to teach Rand to laugh and cry, and Min said she had something to teach oth Rand and the asha'man. Rand learnt to laugh and cry pretty much on his own though in VoG, so the question: is 'Cadsuane still has something important to teach Rand and the asha'man' a theory that has been discussed around here?

 

I always assumed Cad taught him to cry by bringing Tam to him. She caused the final snap, teaching him to laugh and cry. Not sure how she taught the Ashamen however. I'll never get that.

[FarShainMael]

This is from

 

http://www.theorylan...tvmain.php?i=36

 

 

 

AUSTIN MOORE (6 JANUARY 2011)

 

Who was the Lord of Chaos that Demandred and Taim both mention? There has been tons of debate.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (6 JANUARY 2011)

 

Really? I thought that one was obvious. What's the debate about?

 

TEREZ

 

It's Rand. Look in the BWB re: Feast of Fools.

 

AUSTIN MOORE

 

Why was Demandred and Taim saying, "Let the Lord of Chaos rule" if it was Rand? Sorry just read through series once so far :(

 

TEREZ

 

Here's a quote for you:

 

The Feast of Fools

Celebrated in Tammaz (in Arad Doman and the Borderlands) or Saven (everywhere else), the exact day varying according to locality. A day in which all order is deliberately inverted; the high perform lowly tasks (running errands, serving at table, etc.) while the low do no work and give orders to their usual superiors. In many villages and towns the most foolish person is given a title such as the Lord/Lady of Unreason/Misrule/Chaos or the King/Queen of Fools. Not an honor sought, but for that one day everyone has to obey whatever orders, however foolish, are given by the chosen one. (Called the Festival of Unreason in Saldaea; the Festival of Fools in Kandor; Foolday in Baerlon and the Two Rivers.)

 

MATT HATCH

 

I've always enjoyed this theory about the Lord of Chaos. It's fun.

 

http://bit.ly/fghYSz

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

That is a good theory for people to be reading.

 

TEREZ

 

YAY. OMG, that theory has been on the rocks for years because of contradicting tour reports.

 

TEREZ

 

Also, your tour quotes were vague enough to allow it but most people didn't see it that way.

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

I didn't say the theory was true, just that you should study it. :) But I would like to see those tour reports.

 

TEREZ

 

Yes, yes. :) Also, your vague(ish) wording:

http://bit.ly/gbMIP1

And the contradicting RJ reports:

http://bit.ly/fsDp5q

 

FOOTNOTE

 

Adding to Brandon's implications here is Sorilea's comment in reference to the balefiring of Natrin's Barrow, in The Gathering Storm Chapter 27: "We felt the world warping from here, but did not know what had caused it. We assumed it to be the Dark One's work." (Similar to the ripples Perrin and Faile experienced in Knife of Dreams.) This opens up the possibility that people have no idea really what they're talking about when they assume that the warping of reality is due to the Dark One's touch, just as Alviarin had no idea what she was talking about when she assumed that the rotting food was the Dark One's touch (Knife of Dreams, Prologue).

 

(emphasis mine)

 

BS' responses are vague enough to do an Aes Sedai justice..

 

He does not state that 'the LoC is Rand', or indeed identify 'him' as any particular person; he merely says it's obvious.

 

My own opinion is that the expression 'Let the Lord of Chaos rule' can be taken both figuratively and literally. Figuratively, in that it's a picturesque way of saying 'make as much trouble as you can', recalling that Herid Fel points out that 'Belief and order give strength'. Literally, as in the 'Feast of Fools' mentioned above; though this is not so much chaotic as an inversion of normal order. Unless, of course, the LoC decides to be paricularly mischievous .

 

Which way is intended here is far from clear. Possibly that's what RJ intended; perhaps he did actually mean both literal and figurative. It's worth noting, however, that if it does apply to Rand, it would do so only for one day, if we are to interpret the matter to the letter.

 

 

BTW, The Feast of Fools is found in the real world as well:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Lord_of_Misrule

[MountaineerWV]

What the heck were Loial and the Asha'man (Karldin?) doing while traveling around closing the Ways? They obviously failed if aknown Waygate, one that Loial himself used, is still open and an entire ARMY of Shadowspawn can use!

[Vardar]

What the heck were Loial and the Asha'man (Karldin?) doing while traveling around closing the Ways? They obviously failed if aknown Waygate, one that Loial himself used, is still open and an entire ARMY of Shadowspawn can use!

 

That wasn't one of the gates Rand told them to close. He took care of that one. I know it doesn't explain what happened to the Gate, or even how an "Army" can travel through the ways when it's been said time and time again that Shadowspawn using the ways have to travel in small groups and meet up later (Apparently thats one hell of a basement).

 

But there ya go.

[MountaineerWV]

What the heck were Loial and the Asha'man (Karldin?) doing while traveling around closing the Ways? They obviously failed if aknown Waygate, one that Loial himself used, is still open and an entire ARMY of Shadowspawn can use!

 

That wasn't one of the gates Rand told them to close. He took care of that one. I know it doesn't explain what happened to the Gate, or even how an "Army" can travel through the ways when it's been said time and time again that Shadowspawn using the ways have to travel in small groups and meet up later (Apparently thats one hell of a basement).

 

But there ya go.

 

On the other hand, seeing flame above the city may be a case of 'the bark is worse than the bite'. It would take a relatively small number of Trollocs to scare the hell out of civilians and start a significantly large fire.

 

How does the math work out? What was the rate for Perrin's force to move through gateways? Wasn't it several days to move ~100,000 people through a gateway roughly the size of a Waygate? Once the channellers linked they could make a large gateway, but prior to that they would have been much of the same size as a Waygate.

 

If 100k Trollocs were on the other side of the Waygate, it would take time to get them through. On the inside the Ways, all 100K Trollocs will not have immediate access to the exit. How many can line up abreast in front of the Waygate? 10? That would be a formation 10,000 ranks deep. Even crowded butt to nut, the furthest Trollocs would be 20,000 feet from the exit.

 

Surely 10 Trollocs cannot exit at once. We see Rand and friends enter/exit one at a time by horse. So maybe 2 to 3 Trollocs can exit per second at the start, but it would take longer for the Trollocs further back in the ranks. Also factor in the time it would take for the Trollocs to leave the basement.

 

Talamanes, mercenaries, and Guardsmen will outnumber Trollocs for a long period of time. The first priority would be to fight to the Waygate and close it, then begin mopping up the shadowspawn that got through.

[Vardar]

What the heck were Loial and the Asha'man (Karldin?) doing while traveling around closing the Ways? They obviously failed if aknown Waygate, one that Loial himself used, is still open and an entire ARMY of Shadowspawn can use!

 

That wasn't one of the gates Rand told them to close. He took care of that one. I know it doesn't explain what happened to the Gate, or even how an "Army" can travel through the ways when it's been said time and time again that Shadowspawn using the ways have to travel in small groups and meet up later (Apparently thats one hell of a basement).

 

But there ya go.

 

On the other hand, seeing flame above the city may be a case of 'the bark is worse than the bite'. It would take a relatively small number of Trollocs to scare the hell out of civilians and start a significantly large fire.

 

How does the math work out? What was the rate for Perrin's force to move through gateways? Wasn't it several days to move ~100,000 people through a gateway roughly the size of a Waygate? Once the channellers linked they could make a large gateway, but prior to that they would have been much of the same size as a Waygate.

 

If 100k Trollocs were on the other side of the Waygate, it would take time to get them through. On the inside the Ways, all 100K Trollocs will not have immediate access to the exit. How many can line up abreast in front of the Waygate? 10? That would be a formation 10,000 ranks deep. Even crowded butt to nut, the furthest Trollocs would be 20,000 feet from the exit.

 

Surely 10 Trollocs cannot exit at once. We see Rand and friends enter/exit one at a time by horse. So maybe 2 to 3 Trollocs can exit per second at the start, but it would take longer for the Trollocs further back in the ranks. Also factor in the time it would take for the Trollocs to leave the basement.

 

Talamanes, mercenaries, and Guardsmen will outnumber Trollocs for a long period of time. The first priority would be to fight to the Waygate and close it, then begin mopping up the shadowspawn that got through.

 

It's not about how many can exit, it's about the Black WInd. Remember, any groups larger than 20 will attrack it quickly. That's the issue. But yea the exit thing would be a problem too.

[MountaineerWV]

I'm using the assumption that Moridin or someone else was able to counteract or protect against the Black Winds. The note was clear that it was a large host of Shadowspawn.

 

If the Shadowspawn are contending against both the Black Wind and two very tight bottlenecks (the Waygate and the exit from the basement), then the battle for Camelyn is going to be a minor skirmish.

[Vardar]

I'm using the assumption that Moridin or someone else was able to counteract or protect against the Black Winds. The note was clear that it was a large host of Shadowspawn.

 

If the Shadowspawn are contending against both the Black Wind and two very tight bottlenecks (the Waygate and the exit from the basement), then the battle for Camelyn is going to be a minor skirmish.

 

But that was my point too. It's been said so many times that some evils are seperate from the DO. The Black wind and Fain are two of them. How would Moridin suddenly learn to control something that would destroy him?

[MountaineerWV]

Forsaken are tricksey. I'm sure Moridin, one of the strongest and most knowledgeable channellers from the AoL and a preeminent natural philosopher could figure it out.

 

EDIT: Anyway, this shows the battle in Camylen will not be that serious.

Edited June 26, 2012 by MountaineerWV

[Suttree]

I'm using the assumption that Moridin or someone else was able to counteract or protect against the Black Winds. The note was clear that it was a large host of Shadowspawn.

 

If the Shadowspawn are contending against both the Black Wind and two very tight bottlenecks (the Waygate and the exit from the basement), then the battle for Camelyn is going to be a minor skirmish.

 

But that was my point too. It's been said so many times that some evils are seperate from the DO. The Black wind and Fain are two of them. How would Moridin suddenly learn to control something that would destroy him?

 

The Black Wind is something that grew out of the DO's taint on the one power that was used to create the ways. It get's along with Fain because of "professional courtesy". Who knows whether Moridin would be able to exact some measure of control.

[Vardar]

Forsaken are tricksey. I'm sure Moridin, one of the strongest and most knowledgeable channellers from the AoL and a preeminent natural philosopher could figure it out.

 

EDIT: Anyway, this shows the battle in Camylen will not be that serious.

 

He wouldn't have had time. Remember the ways are post forsaken sleep. They have shown they are not good working with things that weren't around before they hit the hay the first time. At least understanding them completely.

[Vardar]

I'm using the assumption that Moridin or someone else was able to counteract or protect against the Black Winds. The note was clear that it was a large host of Shadowspawn.

 

If the Shadowspawn are contending against both the Black Wind and two very tight bottlenecks (the Waygate and the exit from the basement), then the battle for Camelyn is going to be a minor skirmish.

 

But that was my point too. It's been said so many times that some evils are seperate from the DO. The Black wind and Fain are two of them. How would Moridin suddenly learn to control something that would destroy him?

 

I thought it left fain alone because he no longer really has a soul to devour.

 

Regardless wouldn't it have come up before now? I mean they've been using the ways in small batches for books, TR, the Farmhouse attack, etc, wouldn't the ability to move massive armies instantly been of greater importance before now? Would Moridin have had time time needed to dedicate study to an enitity that can destroy him while doing all that he's doing?

 

The Black Wind is something that grew out of the DO's taint on the one power that was used to create the ways. It get's along with Fain because of "professional courtesy". Who knows whether Moridin would be able to exact some measure of control.

[Suttree]

I'm using the assumption that Moridin or someone else was able to counteract or protect against the Black Winds. The note was clear that it was a large host of Shadowspawn.

 

If the Shadowspawn are contending against both the Black Wind and two very tight bottlenecks (the Waygate and the exit from the basement), then the battle for Camelyn is going to be a minor skirmish.

 

But that was my point too. It's been said so many times that some evils are seperate from the DO. The Black wind and Fain are two of them. How would Moridin suddenly learn to control something that would destroy him?

 

I thought it left fain alone because he no longer really has a soul to devour.

 

Regardless wouldn't it have come up before now? I mean they've been using the ways in small batches for books, TR, the Farmhouse attack, etc, wouldn't the ability to move massive armies instantly been of greater importance before now? Would Moridin have had time time needed to dedicate study to an enitity that can destroy him while doing all that he's doing?

 

The Black Wind is something that grew out of the DO's taint on the one power that was used to create the ways. It get's along with Fain because of "professional courtesy". Who knows whether Moridin would be able to exact some measure of control.

 

 

Interview: Oct 9th, 1996

 

ACOS Signing Report - Erica Sadun (Paraphrased)

Question

 

What is Fain?

Robert Jordan

 

Mordeth + person. Mordeth is a human-made evil. The Black Wind gets along with Mordeth because of professional courtesy. Fain is anti-Forsaken as well as anti-Rand. He has a lot of skills and abilities outside of channeling. He can not channel.

[Vardar]

Touche sir.

[Mr Ares]

Taim's rescue of Rand at the last minute is certainly consistent with the idea that Rand is the Lord of Chaos, despite the fact that it's obviously also a reference to chaos as a strategy. And the orders to leave Rand unharmed, as Sammael says, were part of Demandred's instructions (which came to Sammael through Graendal), which is also consistent with Rand being the Lord of Chaos (and letting him rule).

RJ explained why Taim came to Rand's rescue: "On the Asha'man finding Rand in Lord of Chaos, he said that they knew where Rand was. How they did know he began with the following words: "Mazrim Taim is a paranoid S.O.B." [exact quote!].

 

That was not to explain why, but how Taim found him.

Paranoid SOB says nothing at all about how he found him. It does explain why he would go looking - an explanation that would be undermined by him simply acting under orders. Interesting that you chose to cut that quote off where you did.

 

 

Rand being the LoC adds nothing here. I fail to see how the quote you posted helps your point in any way.

That's because you don't want to see it, clearly.

So you don't have an explanation.

 

 

Regardless of when the plan started, Rand was not kidnapped until after it was decided to let him rule - there was time enough to stop the plan going ahead, if they wanted Rand to rule.

Much better to let him suffer a little bit first, don't you think?

Reaching. Not evidence to support you.

 

There is, quite simply, nothing to suggest that Rand is the Lord of Chaos.

That's BS. There's plenty to suggest it, including Brandon saying so, and the evidence you choose to ignore.

Brandon has never said so. He said no such thing. And as you have provided no evidence, I must conclude that you have none to provide.

 

Further, the uses of the phrase outside LoC are consistent with the theory that it is not a specific individual.

Only if you're daft enough to believe that it must be one or the other: an individual or a general strategy of chaos.

How very convenient for your theory. It means whatever you want it to mean. Also, you don't really rebut my point. They are consistent with that theory. We have no uses of let the Lord of Chaose rule that relate to letting Rand rule, and two which have nothing to do with him at all. While there is certainly evidence to suggest that leaving Rand in charge and not facing him directly was a part of their startegy during this period, that is a long way from suggesting that the Lord of Chaos is specifically Rand.

 

Given that he didn't say what he thought the obvious answer was, that's rather unhelpful.

It's clear he believes it is a person, and that the identity of the person should be obvious, and that is quite enough.

No, it is clear only that he believes the answer is obvious. It gives no indication of what he believes the obvious answer to be. You are reading into it, seeing what you want to see. If we look at what he said, divorced from your assumptions about what he meant, we see a useless answer. There is no indication he thinks it is a person, nor that he thinks it is the person you think it is.

 

What the heck were Loial and the Asha'man (Karldin?) doing while traveling around closing the Ways? They obviously failed if aknown Waygate, one that Loial himself used, is still open and an entire ARMY of Shadowspawn can use!

The Caemlyn Waygate was thought secure, per Verin's letter. She stated that the Waygate would need to be destryed. Bear in mind channelers can unspin wards and cut through closed Waygates. So what were they doing? Dealing with the Waygates Rand didn't do himself.

[TristanWebb]

I don't really understand your objections, do you think that there is someone else who is The lord of chaos or do you think it is just a saying to letave the world alone? If it refers to a specific person, then it can only refer t o Rand because he is the only ruler to actually do anything, apart from the Seanchant empress whose name escapes me for the minute. If you think it is just to leave the world alone then nothing you raised really effects that.

 

The argument that it is Rand is bourne out with the fact that trying to force the nations to fight the shadow almost turned him to the shadow, so it was a very good plan. If it wasn't for one very specific detail, Tam visiting him at a calm time that pushed him to the brink too early, he would of snapped at taimon gaiden and led the dark one to victory, or stalemate atleast.

 

If it meant to let the world fall to anarchy, why were the chosen not allowed to interfere? Sammael atleast thought it meant Rand was to rule, though the fact that he wasn't at the meeting does work against that interpretation. Why was a descriptor needed? Let Chaos Rule would be enough if there was no individual involved. It would also be a nice catechism for any darkfriends you ought encounter.

 

I would like you to name someone else who fits the moniker other than Rand.

[Mr Ares]

I don't really understand your objections, do you think that there is someone else who is The lord of chaos or do you think it is just a saying to letave the world alone? If it refers to a specific person, then it can only refer t o Rand because he is the only ruler to actually do anything, apart from the Seanchant empress whose name escapes me for the minute. If you think it is just to leave the world alone then nothing you raised really effects that.

 

The argument that it is Rand is bourne out with the fact that trying to force the nations to fight the shadow almost turned him to the shadow, so it was a very good plan. If it wasn't for one very specific detail, Tam visiting him at a calm time that pushed him to the brink too early, he would of snapped at taimon gaiden and led the dark one to victory, or stalemate atleast.

 

If it meant to let the world fall to anarchy, why were the chosen not allowed to interfere? Sammael atleast thought it meant Rand was to rule, though the fact that he wasn't at the meeting does work against that interpretation. Why was a descriptor needed? Let Chaos Rule would be enough if there was no individual involved. It would also be a nice catechism for any darkfriends you ought encounter.

 

I would like you to name someone else who fits the moniker other than Rand.

I said it wasn't a specific individual. Rand fits just as badly as everyone else. How does killing the Seanchan Imperial family and causing a civil war on the far side of the Aryth contribute to letting Rand rule? How does Reds bonding Asha'man further the goal of letting Rand rule? How does kidnapping Rand and locking him in a box fit with letting him rule?

[TristanWebb]

How does killing the royal family of an empire that is trying to take over his realm let him rule? Are you serious? Stopping the Seanchan is the epitome of letting Rand rule.

 

Putting in a box isn't sure, but breaking him out of that box? Definatly letting him rule.