Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Terez]

You aren't thinking of where she talks about sweating again?

I think they're talking about how the Yellows had a look at Siuan and Leane and declared them to be in prime childbearing condition.

[yoniy0]

That's it! Thanks.

Leane, on the other hand, in true Aes Sedai fashion embraced what had changed. A young woman again -- Egwene had overheard a Yellow exclaiming in wonder that both were prime childbearing age, by everything she could find -- ...

I took their surprise (and the fact that Egwene says 'again') to mean they were into menopause before.

[Leyrann]

 

Maybe not being able to have children is a limitation of the Binder. After all, the criminals the Binder was used on were imprisoned, probably for life, and they weren't allowed conjugal visits.

 

They didn't imprison in the AoL. In the AoL, they just had to swear never to do the crime again.

 

And even in Shara, only male channelers are used to breed with normal women. Are the women channelers there bonded by an Oath Rod somehow? Or they are to awesome to have babies, just like the AS?

 

These channelers just have children by themselves.

[Xcorpyo001]

 

Maybe not being able to have children is a limitation of the Binder. After all, the criminals the Binder was used on were imprisoned, probably for life, and they weren't allowed conjugal visits.

 

They didn't imprison in the AoL. In the AoL, they just had to swear never to do the crime again.

 

 

 

Is there a quote for that?

I was thinking that they were using the Binder to stop them from using OP again(stilling/gentling was probably never used), and then treated like normal criminals.

If they stop them from channeling, they don't have to guard and shield them all the time.

[Terez]

Semirhage explains it in LOC 6.

[mandersen]

Just went through the scene. Such a comment is not there.

 

The gholam's original orders were from Sammael; mainly to deal with the channelers (Nynaeve/Elayne/Avendha, the 2 other Aes Sedia, etc).

 

It's in CH. 16. I'm on audiobook this time 'round so i don't have a page number.

 

You are thinking of aCoS chpt 38.

That's when the Gholam says that and he is referring to Elayne.

 

That reference is correct too. i just listen to it again and the gholam didn't say it again, just Mat remembers him saying that in the rahad. the exact words were "he wants you dead as much as he wants her". So what i'm getting from the above answers is the "he" is Sammael and the "her" is Elayne? And does he mean he wants her dead too, or just that he wants her? hmm.

[csarmi]

I believe that in the AOL they were only to take one oath (something like 'I will follow the orders of the court') so as to minimize the effect.

 

They didn't take any in the AoL. "Binders" were used on criminals...

 

Zeesh. And how did you think it was used on them?

 

Obviously, by them swearing an oath to follow the law (bind themselves as criminals).

 

Maybe not being able to have children is a limitation of the Binder. After all, the criminals the Binder was used on were imprisoned, probably for life, and they weren't allowed conjugal visits.

 

Very unlikely. The point of the binder is that they do not HAVE to be imprisoned at all. They can make them swear an oath to obey the law fully, or obey the judge's orders completely. Then given instruction on what they can do, and what they can't do.

 

So why would they be imprisoned?

[Xcorpyo001]

I believe that in the AOL they were only to take one oath (something like 'I will follow the orders of the court') so as to minimize the effect.

 

They didn't take any in the AoL. "Binders" were used on criminals...

 

Zeesh. And how did you think it was used on them?

 

Obviously, by them swearing an oath to follow the law (bind themselves as criminals).

 

Maybe not being able to have children is a limitation of the Binder. After all, the criminals the Binder was used on were imprisoned, probably for life, and they weren't allowed conjugal visits.

 

Very unlikely. The point of the binder is that they do not HAVE to be imprisoned at all. They can make them swear an oath to obey the law fully, or obey the judge's orders completely. Then given instruction on what they can do, and what they can't do.

 

So why would they be imprisoned?

 

So if an AS kills someone with the OP, they just tell him not to do it again(with the binder) and send him home?

Strange justice system...

[csarmi]

The perfect justice system.

You won't commit crime twice.

 

And you work say 20 years in civil service for free or repay in some way. Who knows what else. You also lose 70 years of your life.

Edited September 21, 2011 by csarmi

[Leyrann]

The perfect justice system.

You won't commit crime twice.

 

And you work say 20 years in civil service for free or repay in some way. Who knows what else. You also lose 70 years of your life.

 

You do not. RJ once said the Oath Rod only starts having effect from the third oath.

[csarmi]

He didn't.

[Xcorpyo001]

The perfect justice system.

You won't commit crime twice.

 

And you work say 20 years in civil service for free or repay in some way. Who knows what else. You also lose 70 years of your life.

 

 

There are hundreds of ways someone can kill someone with the OP, directly or indirectly.

Let's say X(AS) kills someone with fire. He takes an oath to not do that again.

He then uses an lightning bolt to hit a car, killing everybody around it.

Or just weaken the structure of a road/building, and the first to pass it will most likely die.

Or he can push a guy with a wave of air(or keep him/her trapped) in front of a car/train/jo-car.

He could just pay another guy to do the killing for him.

They should make X swore a couple dozens oaths to guard against every possible breach that will allow him to do it again, or simply tell him to make one oath, to never use the OP again. They don't usually sever(still, gentle) someone from the OP, because that will probably be a death sentence.

And if he is incarcerated for the crime, he can't use the OP to break free.

 

It's hard to believe that in a world where they don't even know the concept of war, and crime is almost gone, a guy blowing up a city/block/car with balefire will just receive a slap on his wrist and be let to do his thing as long as he swears on the Binder that he'll never do it again.

What justice is that?

[csarmi]

1) 'I swear that I will never break the law again, nor directly, nor indirectly'.

 

2) 'I swear that I'll obey the instructions of the judge's sentence completely'.

The judge:

1. You are never to break the law again, nor directly, nor indirectly.
   
2. You will not remove your oath.
   
3. You are to serve a sentence of 20 years this way: ...
   
4. You will return to this office every year and follow the instructions given to you.
   

[csarmi]

Just what happened to Galina.

[csarmi]

Also, severing someone would NOT be a death sentence at all.

 

It would shorten the person's lifespan and they would need a good psychologist (which the third agers obviously do not have) and some extra bit. I don't think losing the power is much worse than losing a drug forever + a deep depression.

[francy]

Well, the Black Ajah is released from the Oaths to swear their new Oaths, so most likely it doesn't reset, or they would live longer than other Aes Sedai (particularly those who were recruited later in their lives). Verin is somewhere over 200 years old, but she was only recruited 70 years before. It didn't appear to slow her aging any, or reverse it.

 

Thanks Terez. I forgot that some of the BA had been recruited later in life, and their age hasn't been prolonged so I guess it doesn't reset.

 

Pity! I was hoping the AS would suddenly gain an extra few hundred years - its such a huge sacrifice, especially now they know what they are giving up! I know, they can be released and live on in the Kin, but they won't be Aes Sedai any more...

[Suttree]

I believe that in the AOL they were only to take one oath (something like 'I will follow the orders of the court') so as to minimize the effect.

 

They didn't take any in the AoL. "Binders" were used on criminals...

 

Zeesh. And how did you think it was used on them?

 

Obviously, by them swearing an oath to follow the law (bind themselves as criminals).

 

Haha...forgive me. Was skimming at work this am and didn't read closely.

[pamela]

Question 1: I was thinking about AoL singing involving Nym, Ogier and Aiel team. The BWB says they had some OP abilities which they used to affect plants. And, as I see it, the Aiels sang to enhance their actions. So, my question is: was what the Nym were doing an ability specific for them- a very part and nature of themselves- or could a human channeler imitate this?

 

Question 2: We know there is Pattern of every Age established which changes a little with each turning of the Wheel. Well, sometimes the DR joins the Shadow. The question: isn't the difference between a) the good DR > Light's victory and b) the bad DR > a draw... isn't it too significant to make those little changes in RJ's tapestry, like he called it, the very big ones? After all, what happens in the 3rd Age affects the 4th. Perhaphs the Mirror Worlds, with their infinity of variants, provide balance? On the other hand, they are mere reflections of the main events... Or are the differences not that big at all and they fit well in the Pattern and I am exaggerating things ?

Edited September 21, 2011 by gwenifer

[yoniy0]

Question 2

Things are more complicated than that. First off, Rand is only the Dragon Reborn because LTT was called the Dragon by his contemporaries. We don't know that it's a recurring theme. Secondly, we don't know that Rand's soul has ever before turned to the Shadow. Thirdly, there are many different tasks Rand was born to perform. Turning to the Shadow means that he probably wouldn't do part of what he was supposed to, but hardly everything.

So... I'm not sure there's a straight out answer to your question. Surly not a simple one

[Terez]

Secondly, we don't know that Rand's soul has ever before turned to the Shadow.

Yes we do; RJ said so.

[Suttree]

Secondly, we don't know that Rand's soul has ever before turned to the Shadow.

Yes we do; RJ said so.

 

This is something I've wondered about for some time. People try to make a distinction on this saying that since RJ only said CoL not the "Dragon Soul" it means that someone else had been turned. Do we have any evidence that the CoL has always been the same soul?

Edited September 22, 2011 by Suttree

[yoniy0]

Secondly, we don't know that Rand's soul has ever before turned to the Shadow.

Yes we do; RJ said so.

No, I believe the wording was such that it might've been any champion for the Light.

[FarShainMael]

We do know (TGH47) that Hawkwing and LTT (or their souls) have fought both on the same side and on opposite sides through the Ages.. but not which of them was on the side of the Light. Could have been either, or neither.

[Lisa Campbell]

I'm thinking that if the Dragon Reborn is turned then the DO will keep his soul, maybe make him Forsaken but then his soul would never be spun out by the pattern again.

 

It makes me think that maybe that was what the prophecy meant about Narishma following after. Sort of like an insurance taken by the pattern that the world and wheel won't unravel.

 

In the scenario where Rand is taken or killed by the Shadow then I think the prison would have been resealed somehow prior and Narishma's soul will eventually be reborn into the next AoL and be proclaimed Dragon (as in the title LTT held last cycle) and that new prophecies and battles and so on.

[pamela]

I think it's definetely the same soul all the time, complicated though it seems. Otherwise, why would Hawking and Ishy (assuming he doesn't lie about the issue) speak to Rand all these things about their countless encounters from eternity? They would have had to address him as an institution of champion indeed, not his soul, which seems lame to me. No, I would feel disappointed if this was the case. Which doesn't change the fact that still I'm confused about how can the Pattern remain within a frame while the champion turns to the Shadow Perhaps it's not such a significant act after all- the Seanchan kill the dark Rand before the Shadow triumphs or he just falls off the roof and dies... but still, as a result the seals are not broken, the Bore is not unmade and the struggle is not finished- therfore a quest for the 4th-agers?

 

But question 1, please...

 

Question 1: I was thinking about AoL singing involving Nym, Ogier and Aiel team. The BWB says they had some OP abilities which they used to affect plants. And, as I see it, the Aiels sang to enhance their actions. So, my question is: was what the Nym were doing an ability specific for them- a very part and nature of themselves- or could a human channeler imitate this?

Edited September 22, 2011 by gwenifer