Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Grig]

 

my memory isnat as good with the WoT as it is with HP, and i'm on my re-read right now but only on tDR. but when Rand cleanses the source, doesn't it refer to the Black Wind & Mashadar screaming and dieing? and isn't it speculated by characters that the Ways are safe to travel (ie: that the Black Wind died)

 

i could be wrong; i often find i'm wrong when i try to remember things in this series with having not done a re-read in a while

 

 

*snaps fingers about the Ghollam* i still think it was a cheap way to kill him though, he had such potential to kill everyone and remake the world in his image!!

 

For the first part, there was a rush of wind and such due to the void created in SL during the cleansing (I believe from Moggy's POV). I don't see a reason to connect it with the Black Wind, though, as the taint being used was being skimmed directly from on Saidin and not from the Ways (without doing a re-read at the moment, I don't really remember the Ways factoring in to the Clenasing at all). Also do not recall said speculation. I will try to keep an eye out if I do another re-read (or maybe someone will jump in).

 

As for the gholam, it can't be helped. The person ordering it around was too stupid to send it after any of the ($World_Population - 1) people who could not harm it, so that's what happens I suppose. Horrible waste of resources.

[LemonPastie]

Hey Red2111, I find your animation all the more interesting because elephants lack the leg structure to jump.

[yoniy0]

What Rand did with the Taint had no affect on the Ways:

DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

Q: Would [The Ways] be cleaned with the cleansing of saidin?

RJ: No. It's like a bacteria breed. Just by cleaning up the chemicals that caused the bacteria to come into existence, unless its feeding on that, those chemicals, you are not going to destroy the bacteria. You simply cut off what helped to create it.

[Erunion]

But the elephant didn't need to jump! It just needed to be dropped .

 

I, personally, liked how the Gholam was killed. I had personally expected it to be dropped into Dragonmount (or WOT's equivalent of the Mariana's trench), using a very similar method, but dieing of starvation is good enough, I guess.

 

I suspect that the Gholam was given a target, then it's commander either forgot about it, died, or lost track of it. It should have been sent after any number of people, but thankfully, it went for Mat.

[yoniy0]

Ah, yes, the Light never gives our heroes a challenge they cannot meet. If Aginor battled Rand for the Eye the way Asmodean did for the CK, if Ishamael decided to kill Rand with a weave rather than his staff at Falme, if Belal didn't attempt that fool game with allowing Rand to take Callandor (what Rand did against Ishamael later is proof enough that Belal couldn't have handled him easily after he took it), if Ishamael have told Asmodean (and later Semirhage) that they should kill Mat on sight, if Luc was willing to hunt Perrin in the Two Rivers the way he did Rand in Far Madding... But then, it wouldn't be WoT.

[Duskfire]

I dont understand why sending it after Mat was a wasted resource?

 

The Gholam had never been harmed before, and was basically the ultimate killing machine as far as anyone was concerned. How was Moridin or whatnot meant to know that Mat would get Elayne to make up a whole bunch of foxhead medallions to go into the final fight?

[Finnssss22]

We simply don't know enough about the Gholam abilities, specifically its' immunities to the One Power.

We do know there were 3 male and 3 female.

What we don't know (at least I don't remember anything mentioned) is if the male Gholam is only immune to Saidar and the female only Saidin.

 

We can guess that they are all immune to both based on Mat's medallion being immune to both but it's still just a guess and the properties of Mat's medallion, being immune to both halves, while the gholem isn't could also be a reason why it hurts it.

 

One could also argue that since the Gholam were actually made from live humans, their immunity is only to their opposite sex, who knows though heh.

Can really go in circles on this imo.

 

 

If, however, we assume that the male version is only immune to the female half of the source then Mat is the proper target and the only target really as Perrin has Asha'man protectors as it were and well...Rand...uhhh...yeah heh.

[Terez]

We simply don't know enough about the Gholam abilities, specifically its' immunities to the One Power.

We do know there were 3 male and 3 female.

What we don't know (at least I don't remember anything mentioned) is if the male Gholam is only immune to Saidar and the female only Saidin.

No, we know they are immune to both. The gholam had never encountered anything that could hurt it before.

[Thorgan]

When Rand is cleansing the source we get this PoV from Elza where she is absolutly sure Rand has to reach the last battle.

 

Any idea why/how?

 

 

This just seems extremly significant because it's the same thing Moridin wants and she just figured it out on her own. With just 'common' knowledge.

[Finnssss22]

We simply don't know enough about the Gholam abilities, specifically its' immunities to the One Power.

We do know there were 3 male and 3 female.

What we don't know (at least I don't remember anything mentioned) is if the male Gholam is only immune to Saidar and the female only Saidin.

No, we know they are immune to both. The gholam had never encountered anything that could hurt it before.

 

 

Yeah, I thought of that after but I wanted to re-check when exactly they were made first and it was in the middle of the the War of Power.

Even if he/it was put in a stasis box early, it most likely wasn't more than a handful of years before the breaking leaving upwards of 40+ years of activity meaning it's a good bet he ran into a male channeler or 10 heh.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Finnssss

[Sid]

When Rand is cleansing the source we get this PoV from Elza where she is absolutly sure Rand has to reach the last battle.

 

Any idea why/how?

 

 

This just seems extremly significant because it's the same thing Moridin wants and she just figured it out on her own. With just 'common' knowledge.

Elza was under Verin's 'compulsion' that she did when the Wise Ones brought the captive sisters from Dumai's Wells to her [TPOD Prologue]. I believe that Beldiene was the one we saw being compelled on screen, but Elza was among them too. Elza's PoV reeks of compulsion, and later Semirhage has to remove it from her mind so she can aid in Semi's plan for Rand with the Domination Band.

 

Verin obviously wants Rand to live to the last battle and didn't want to take a chance with the black sisters she had an opportunity to influence to muck that up.

[Thorgan]

Oh damn it.

 

How was I so oblivious :<

 

And Verin is also the reason why the sisters swore fealthy to Rand, right?

[Smittyphi]

Oh damn it.

 

How was I so oblivious :<

 

And Verin is also the reason why the sisters swore fealthy to Rand, right?

 

If you're talking about right after Dumai's Well, then no, that was a matter of an angry, slightly insane Rand/LTT scaring the crap out of everyone with Ta'veren assisting. If you're talking about afterwards when Verin had her "chat" with the other sisters, I would say yes.

[yoniy0]

Definitely, Verin was the reason the loyalist-Sisters held in the Aiel camps swore fealty to Rand. I believe her purpose was twofold: first to tie them to Rand, second to allow them to act in the world again (by then she knew enough of the Aile to know that by taking on such oaths they will begin to pay for their toh, enough to be let out of those tents (they were very nearly treated as da'tsang before).

 

Remember, though, that Min saw the first batch of swear-ees (along with Sorilea) "will each serve Rand in her own way" (for Elza that meant helping Semirhage collar him; can't find good help these days), so perhaps they were heading that way all along.

[Red2111]

okay, so i'm in tDR in my re-read; and speaking of Verin i noticed a few things.

 

why didn't she give Egwene the notes she had on that twisted ring ter'angle? it just seems odd that Verin intends to help Egwene but wouldn't give her all the info ya know.

 

 

 

For the first part, there was a rush of wind and such due to the void created in SL during the cleansing (I believe from Moggy's POV). I don't see a reason to connect it with the Black Wind, though, as the taint being used was being skimmed directly from on Saidin and not from the Ways (without doing a re-read at the moment, I don't really remember the Ways factoring in to the Clenasing at all). Also do not recall said speculation. I will try to keep an eye out if I do another re-read (or maybe someone will jump in).

 

i'm gonna have to dig back out KoD's (or is it CoS where the cleansing is done in) and quote the part bubba is talking about then. bubba's my boyfriend, and the one i was posting that question for about machin Shin being destroyed. i rememebr the part he's referencing, it's in a descriptive part not really said by a charcter. it's referranced when RJ describes Shadar Logoth becomming a crater. maybe he got the two mixed up, Machin Shin & mashadar. i know i have a bad habit of mixing them up as well at times cause of the names and how evil they are.

 

 

What Rand did with the Taint had no affect on the Ways:

DragonCon 3 September 2005 - Emma reporting

Q: Would [The Ways] be cleaned with the cleansing of saidin?

RJ: No. It's like a bacteria breed. Just by cleaning up the chemicals that caused the bacteria to come into existence, unless its feeding on that, those chemicals, you are not going to destroy the bacteria. You simply cut off what helped to create it.

 

i finally get to tell Bubba "i win again, LTT!" lmao i kept telling him "you don't kill the child when you kill the parent" in referrance to the Ways, the Black Wind, and the Cleansing of the source. but noooo he just had to have proof. thanks for the quote Yoniy0; lets see him argue against something RJ said *satisfied nod*

[Sid]

okay, so i'm in tDR in my re-read; and speaking of Verin i noticed a few things.

 

why didn't she give Egwene the notes she had on that twisted ring ter'angle? it just seems odd that Verin intends to help Egwene but wouldn't give her all the info ya know.

 

 

(my guess)Giving her the notes may have come too close to betraying her oaths to the GLoD. She walked a fine line on that oath... many times.

 

there aren't a lot of 'simple questions and answers' relating to Verin

[mb]

Before Tower of Midnight's release, a number of names were revealed.

What are the final forms of those names?

[yoniy0]

Before Tower of Midnight's release, a number of names were revealed.

What are the final forms of those names?

I beg your pardon? Which names?

[Puny]

What does trolling mean? I read a def that it means an offensive message... but doesn´t that depend on how it is offensive. A different viewpoint or such can´t be called trolling...

[Luckers]

What does trolling mean? I read a def that it means an offensive message... but doesn´t that depend on how it is offensive. A different viewpoint or such can´t be called trolling...

 

Not really the point of this thread, but a troll is someone who posts messages to intentionally cause fights.

[Puny]

I know, sry Luckers. Just read on a diff topic that someone was called a troll.

[Samhain]

In The Great Hunt, Ishamael says

"They think themselves safe in their White Tower, but my followers number even some of their own. The Aes Sedai called Moiraine told you who you are, did she not? Did she lie? Or is she one of mine? The White Tower means to use you like a hound on a leash. Do I lie? Do I lie when I say you seek the Horn of Valere?" He laughed again; calm of the void or no, it was all Rand could do not to cover his ears. "Sometimes old enemies fight so long they become allies and never realize it. They think they strike at you, but they have become so closely linked it as if you guided the blow yourself."

 

When he makes the "old enemies" statement, is he referring to the Aes Sedai or Mordeth? It makes sense with either, but I'm not sure which he is refering to since he's talking about the Aes Sedai controlling him and him hunting the Horn, which is in Mordeth's possession.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Samhain

[Puny]

I´m doing a re-read and I´m up to LoC, one of my favourite in the series. Rand has just met Mazrim Taim for the first time. My question is.. does anyone remember if there is any mention of Murandy or anything in LoC? I know some people think Demandred is in Murandry posing as Roedran (?). It´s been a couple of years since I´ve read LoC but ima be on the lookout for Demandred references. One of the things I do remember though is that Demandred is getting orders in the prologue and in the epilogue he is all bubbly cause he did so well. Is that because he spread the chaos in general or is it cause he did something?

[Grig]

In The Great Hunt, Ishamael says

"They think themselves safe in their White Tower, but my followers number even some of their own. The Aes Sedai called Moiraine told you who you are, did she not? Did she lie? Or is she one of mine? The White Tower means to use you like a hound on a leash. Do I lie? Do I lie when I say you seek the Horn of Valere?" He laughed again; calm of the void or no, it was all Rand could do not to cover his ears. "Sometimes old enemies fight so long they become allies and never realize it. They think they strike at you, but they have become so closely linked it as if you guided the blow yourself."

 

When he makes the "old enemies" statement, is he referring to the Aes Sedai or Mordeth? It makes sense with either, but I'm not sure which he is refering to since he's talking about the Aes Sedai controlling him and him hunting the Horn, which is in Mordeth's possession.

 

It seems most obvious that he's referring to himself and Rand, and that when Rand is striking at him Ishamael's basically directing the blows (although at this point Rand still think he's the DO). He's trying to make Rand doubt his course of action by calling the reason he's doing it into question, and saying it's playing into the DO's hands.

[PhoenixUK]

When Rand is cleansing the source we get this PoV from Elza where she is absolutly sure Rand has to reach the last battle.

 

Any idea why/how?

 

 

This just seems extremly significant because it's the same thing Moridin wants and she just figured it out on her own. With just 'common' knowledge.

Elza was under Verin's 'compulsion' that she did when the Wise Ones brought the captive sisters from Dumai's Wells to her [TPOD Prologue]. I believe that Beldiene was the one we saw being compelled on screen, but Elza was among them too. Elza's PoV reeks of compulsion, and later Semirhage has to remove it from her mind so she can aid in Semi's plan for Rand with the Domination Band.

 

Verin obviously wants Rand to live to the last battle and didn't want to take a chance with the black sisters she had an opportunity to influence to muck that up.

 

Verin's version of compulsion only works if the victim can find an honest reason to do it within themselves. Elza's reason is that Rand MUST survive to the last battle. Ishamael has made this order to the forsaken too (although he wants mat and perrin dead). We still dont know why - theories? Because he wants to turn the Dragon to the shadow? Because with rand dead, maybe the Last battle will occur along a random path that the dark one cant predict, whereas if rand is at TLB, at least TDO knows what the basic set up is and can prepare to win???