The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Nethran Thaimal]

Well, men who channel with the taint go mad.  And they're men.  It does fit in that sense.  I can see where you're coming from, but I'm more inclined to believe that that's where they're dropped.

[nophone]

So if Rand knows he's not going to hear Lews, and presumably he's right, how do you suppose this will effect his channeling sickness? It seems like the taint would have been the first piece of that puzzle. I just don't understand why his channeling sickness would continue to get worse if Saidin has actually been cleansed, other than it's related to the thoughts in his head.

 

If Luckers is right (and his theory is sound on the issue), then the connection with Moridin is what is causing the sickness when Rand takes hold of saidin--so there shouldn't be any change.

 

if you're referring to the merge/swap theory then I don't see much evidence of this unless it's to suppose that every time that rand grasps the power he connects to the power which makes him sick. On the other hand, the theory suggested that Moridin was getting sick from Rand grasping the power... i think that it's possible, even likely that this is the reason, I just don't like it.  Not liking why something is happening in these novels is not, unfortunately enough to keep it from happening. This is what you were referring to no?

[Auld Manriva]

Well, men who channel with the taint go mad.  And they're men.  It does fit in that sense.  I can see where you're coming from, but I'm more inclined to believe that that's where they're dropped.

 

.... and all Sea Folk ships with a boy aboard who's about to be of channeling age will hang about within a short sail of The Isle of Madmen? These are merchants, they do not "hang about" anywhere.

 

Sailing ships don't travel all that fast even with a stiff wind. Windjammers (the merchant ships Rakers are patterned after) in our own Age of Sail did extremely well to travel 300 miles noon to noon and that was not day after day after day. So... a boy is about to go "bat shy...crazy", these superstitious goobs (they think he's bonkers instantly) do not know how to shield a person (the AS (Nyn, Merrilille) in Caemlyn TAUGHT them) and they are going to travel HOW far to find the Isle in order to drop this soon to be kill crazy and walking rotten lad off?

 

I'm sorry... any convenient island/atoll/sandspit with no apparent resident is good enough for a nice "marooning"... ask any Pirate.  ;)

[JenLenaMom]

In LoC when Elain(sp) going to TAR to get info from Alaida's desk full of reports there is something about the borderlanders fighting among themselves. Do we ever learn more about it?

 

I think this was answered in a Question of the Week. IIRC RJ said that when Hurin brought news of Rand being the Dragon Reborn back to the Boarderlands there were lots of "discussions" about what it meant and what they should do, and boarderlanders being BLer's some of the discussions broke out into fights.

[NetSlider]

I was thinking lately that the sickness is some sort of defense mechanism by pattern. Rand gets sicker and sicker the more hard and "crazy" he becomes. And when he decides to use so much bale fire that it could possible destroy pattern itself the sickness gets to be the worse. It almost as if it is to prevent him from doing something really, really insane. 

[Crael123]

I was thinking lately that the sickness is some sort of defense mechanism by pattern. Rand gets sicker and sicker the more hard and "crazy" he becomes. And when he decides to use so much bale fire that it could possible destroy pattern itself the sickness gets to be the worse. It almost as if it is to prevent him from doing something really, really insane. 

 

YEAH i thought about that too..... that would be good a different way to look at things

[mastrtonberry]

I was thinking lately that the sickness is some sort of defense mechanism by pattern. Rand gets sicker and sicker the more hard and "crazy" he becomes. And when he decides to use so much bale fire that it could possible destroy pattern itself the sickness gets to be the worse. It almost as if it is to prevent him from doing something really, really insane. 

 

If that was the case though, he would have been puking his balls out when he was about to destroy the planet on top of Dragonmount.

[OptimusPrime]

I was thinking lately that the sickness is some sort of defense mechanism by pattern. Rand gets sicker and sicker the more hard and "crazy" he becomes. And when he decides to use so much bale fire that it could possible destroy pattern itself the sickness gets to be the worse. It almost as if it is to prevent him from doing something really, really insane.  

 

If that was the case though, he would have been puking his balls out when he was about to destroy the planet on top of Dragonmount.

 

You mean like the time when he collapsed, didnt dare let go of Saidin, and then Travelled to Dragonmount?

 

Saying that Im not sure if Rands sickness involves Ishamaels wound and the taint. Rand channeled a hell of a lot of the Taint, and I cant say I think the two wounds fully stop each others effect on Rand beyond never healing. Remember that the Shadar Logoth evil makes you suspiscious and paranoid and whatever else. Like it did to Mat. Look ar Rand.

[truck16]

Since we are talking about Rand, did anyone notice that the only thing holding off the call of the TP was using the OP through the CK. Seems like the DO set Rand up to get a hit of the crack pipe that is the TP. DO is like a drug pusher.

[OptimusPrime]

I thought that as well truck-Rand used the Choeden Kal to resist the True Power, then destroyed the access key... And as I said in the thread on the Dragons soul, the Dark One would be an idiot if he stopped Rand from using the True Power because it is so addictive.

[Sharaman]

Rand can over-ride the addictive feel -he's only had one taste of it. Chosen who must have used the TP several times don't seem to have a problem staying away. We don't have any Chosen PoVs saying "Ooh! Wish I could have another dose of TP". Instead we've got fear about its dangerous effects and maybe, relief that they can't use it anymore. 

How is this part of Book IV-VI anyway?

 

[Crael123]

Its not. at all. on topic.  :P

[Bastor]

I thought that as well truck-Rand used the Choeden Kal to resist the True Power, then destroyed the access key... And as I said in the thread on the Dragons soul, the Dark One would be an idiot if he stopped Rand from using the True Power because it is so addictive.

I think he destroyed CK because he knows he doesn't need it do defeat the DO....he knows the plan LTT made...he is LTT ....he died in a way

[NetSlider]

Here's what I was thinking. Remember Demander POV in LoC he's at SH and he's think how this is not really the prison but the closest place in the world to it (something about thin fabric of the pattern). We also know that the prison is outside of the pattern, which brings me to the point. Or a question, i guess. What would happen if one would travel to SH in TAR? Wasn't there something about banding the reality or making a whole in the patter in order to travel? Egwene first time "traveling" did it by going to TAR in person. Maybe, the unnoticed thing is the fact that the DO must be sealed in TAR instead of waking world.

I'm stilling thinking over this idea, but figured I'll put it out here for some comments. :)

[Bastor]

Here's what I was thinking. Remember Demander POV in LoC he's at SH and he's think how this is not really the prison but the closest place in the world to it (something about thin fabric of the pattern). We also know that the prison is outside of the pattern, which brings me to the point. Or a question, i guess. What would happen if one would travel to SH in TAR? Wasn't there something about banding the reality or making a whole in the patter in order to travel? Egwene first time "traveling" did it by going to TAR in person. Maybe, the unnoticed thing is the fact that the DO must be sealed in TAR instead of waking world.

I'm stilling thinking over this idea, but figured I'll put it out here for some comments. :)

Hmm...interesting...that would explain the why you have the feeling someone is always watching you inside TAR....and it might cheer up those people who think that Rand and DO must fight in another plane of existence....

[cleantoe]

I just read the Mistborn trilogy in the last few days.

 

All I have to say is this:

 

If the detail is as small as that "earring" then we're all f***ed! No way we're ever gonna find it out. :P

 

I mean I suspected that the earring had SOME relevance because it was just brought up in the book a lot, but didn't realize it was stopping her from friggin ruling the world (so to speak)!

[NetSlider]

I just read the Mistborn trilogy in the last few days.

 

All I have to say is this:

 

If the detail is as small as that "earring" then we're all f***ed! No way we're ever gonna find it out. :P

 

I mean I suspected that the earring had SOME relevance because it was just brought up in the book a lot, but didn't realize it was stopping her from friggin ruling the world (so to speak)!

 

Well put...that's how i've been feeling about this whole thing for the past couple months.  ;D

[Calderis]

Here's what I was thinking. Remember Demander POV in LoC he's at SH and he's think how this is not really the prison but the closest place in the world to it (something about thin fabric of the pattern). We also know that the prison is outside of the pattern, which brings me to the point. Or a question, i guess. What would happen if one would travel to SH in TAR? Wasn't there something about banding the reality or making a whole in the patter in order to travel? Egwene first time "traveling" did it by going to TAR in person. Maybe, the unnoticed thing is the fact that the DO must be sealed in TAR instead of waking world.

I'm stilling thinking over this idea, but figured I'll put it out here for some comments. :)

 

I totally understand the logic here, and really like the idea. Have to point out the Major flaw though. Shayol Ghul is way freaking deep in the blight, and the blight is one of the places that just seems to not exist in TaR.

[OptimusPrime]

But what would happen if Rand was at Shayol Ghul and opened a gateway to TAR? Would he jump in at the nearest possible point? Id rather there be some consequence on Rand or reality rather than him just get spat out somewhere else.

[StefanR]

Here's what I was thinking. Remember Demander POV in LoC he's at SH and he's think how this is not really the prison but the closest place in the world to it (something about thin fabric of the pattern). We also know that the prison is outside of the pattern, which brings me to the point. Or a question, i guess. What would happen if one would travel to SH in TAR? Wasn't there something about banding the reality or making a whole in the patter in order to travel? Egwene first time "traveling" did it by going to TAR in person. Maybe, the unnoticed thing is the fact that the DO must be sealed in TAR instead of waking world.

I'm stilling thinking over this idea, but figured I'll put it out here for some comments. :)

Hmm...interesting...that would explain the why you have the feeling someone is always watching you inside TAR....and it might cheer up those people who think that Rand and DO must fight in another plane of existence....

 

Additionally, it was said somewhere in one of the books that TAR was the DO's domain

[nophone]

Pro tip: redo the old seals and take a breather... cmon man you cleansed saidin... the last battle can wait, put some glue on the last seals... better idea. wrap the old disk in iron and rework cuendillar around it yeah!

 

serious point. how do they make cuendillar black and white? i would presume the old seals that were made to look like yin and yang were not just white cuendillar painted black on one half? I would venture to guess that some power stricken artisan wasn't sitting around trying to make them pretty... now that i think about it... it doesn't make a lot of sense... plus if you were putting together the boundaries of the DO cage... would you really be thinking about aesthetics? in retrospect, I find it interesting that they're so round and aesthetically articulate.

 

I have a valid point here don't I? according to what I understand, working iron into cuendillar makes it white... if something makes it black it has to be working another material into cuendillar, or working a slightly different weave... or perhaps the effects of a man channeling the substance...

 

this isn't resolved however by male/female under the consideration that only men were present when the DO was sealed in the first place... maybe I should start a new thread for this thought...?

[NetSlider]

Pro tip: redo the old seals and take a breather... cmon man you cleansed saidin... the last battle can wait, put some glue on the last seals... better idea. wrap the old disk in iron and rework cuendillar around it yeah!

 

serious point. how do they make cuendillar black and white? i would presume the old seals that were made to look like yin and yang were not just white cuendillar painted black on one half? I would venture to guess that some power stricken artisan wasn't sitting around trying to make them pretty... now that i think about it... it doesn't make a lot of sense... plus if you were putting together the boundaries of the DO cage... would you really be thinking about aesthetics? in retrospect, I find it interesting that they're so round and aesthetically articulate.

 

I have a valid point here don't I? according to what I understand, working iron into cuendillar makes it white... if something makes it black it has to be working another material into cuendillar, or working a slightly different weave... or perhaps the effects of a man channeling the substance...

 

this isn't resolved however by male/female under the consideration that only men were present when the DO was sealed in the first place... maybe I should start a new thread for this thought...?

 

Or maybe TP was used to make them as well?

 

Another point, Lanfear said TAR was her domain. And she was the one to release DO.

[ed2funy]

I think the seals were made beforehand and the coloring comes from men and women making them together.

Think about it. It was common back then, maybe they just grabbed the nearest cuendillar crap and went.

 

 

Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the Forsaken always immediately let go of the Source once they get to SG.

It is dangerous to channel without the DO saying so.

 

Maybe he can hurt you if you are channeling, I don't know.

But my point is, if it is dangerous to channel...

What does that bode for the good guys?

 

 

I like the DO being in TAR theory.

[nophone]

What are the rules for channeling in TAR? is it impossible to channel anything but spirit unless you go through a gateway (in the flesh) then you can channel however you want? but if the DO is in TAR it is signifigant that he wasn't sealed from TAR.

 

I got an idea here. Okay the seals... Nothing can break them, not even balefire... infact it seems that anything that they absorb the power or force of anything going into them. Consider that the path to defeating the dark one in the past was similar to the method used to remove the taint. Perhaps Lews and his 100 companions created saidin funnels that directed the TP at the disks until the DO went silent

 

I don't agree that the DO is in TAR... but I think it's possible that he exists in a domain similar to TAR, a familiarity with TAR may be an advantage to somebody in SG.

[ed2funy]

You can channel in TAR.

But your physical body that is sleeping can only channel spirit.