Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[toss the dice]

for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he is one with the land

I believe that answers the cloud part. Rand happy=land happy, Rand no happy=land no happy. For the Choedan Kal the sheer amount of Saidin he was holding through the Kal was enough to destroy anything. He simply turned it back at the Choedan Kal.

 

Interesting, I had assumed the clouds were related to the DO touch on the world.  Do you think the clouds were purely caused by Rand's mood?

I do think it was caused purely by his mood. The bowl of the winds fixed whatever weather problems were effecting the world from the DO's touch. If you notice, when Rand went into Dark Rand mode, suddenly all of the food spoiled, and not in smaller amounts as had been happening when Rand only got slightly darker in previous books.

[The Fisher King]

I completely agree with ''toss the dice''

 

Think about it...earlier in the series, EXCEPT for when the DO's Touch was messing with the weather pretty bad, the weather was usually ok...THINGS were usually ok...(like foods and stuff) ... The DO's Taint on Weather was defeated by The Bowl About The Winds...annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd....the weather once again stayed fairly normal for awhile (pre-tgs)

 

Ever wonder why? It was quite the mystery...but, think about it...even thoug the Pre TGS Rand was hardly the most stable guy around, he wasn't really going around being all crazyfied...he kept it together fairly well (most of the time).

 

BUT...in TGS, where he basically LOSES IT for pretty much the whole book...we have the land dying and the food spoiling...

 

I would postualte that Rand's Condition is linked to the wellbeing of the land and the goodness of the food and stuff like that...

 

 

 

Fish

[Mr Ares]

does anyone else think that this whole Moridin/Rand body swap thing is a crock of shit, or is it just me?

 

i mean... i've read the "evidence" that this will happen... and i think its complete crap.  anyone agree?

A lot of people don't like the body swap. So far, no-one has come up with a decent alternative, nor have they done a very good job of blowing holes in the body swap. By all means, do try once Luckers has revamped the theory.

[PrinceOfRavens]

no its for certain... you cant contradict luckers, hes like the nae'blis of this forum :P

[Mr Ares]

no its for certain... you cant contradict luckers, hes like the nae'blis of this forum :P

And I'm like the Shai'tan. And of course you can contradict Luckers. It's a risk, but it's survivable.

[PrinceOfRavens]

no its for certain... you cant contradict luckers, hes like the nae'blis of this forum :P

And I'm like the Shai'tan. And of course you can contradict Luckers. It's a risk, but it's survivable.

barely ;D

[lordofsoup]

how is rand going to get callandor from caddy?  she might be able to beat him with her angreal, and now he doesnt have anything that can counter it, unless u count all the channelers at his disposal. 

[aunt_pol]

Ah Cadsuane will come round, or the fact that he's willing to link with Nynaeve & Alivia to use the thing will reassure her.

 

 

[Declan]

i doubt it would come to a battle of the One Power between Cad and Rand (my vote is Rand could take her). But i dont think Rand will use Callandor or rather i am not completely convinced he will in the last battle.

[toss the dice]

Ok so im gona try and both verify and in a way contradict the body swap theory. Who here has seen the Matrix? Well if you have you should know that Neo is the anomaly in the Matrix (pattern). Mr. Smith was created to try and balance out Neo's existence and a special connection was made between them. They were almost exactly the same person and seemed to be able to even sense where the other was. By destroying Neo, Mr. Smith was destroying the need for himself and the matrix (pattern) destroyed him as a result. The pattern spun Moridin out so that he balances out Rands existence. When one dies they both die. So in the end Alivia is gona help Rand die by helping him reach Shayol Ghul and making him realize that he must die for the benefit of the entire world (as Trinity does for Neo in the matrix). Then when Rand or Moridin takes over the others body, they will both die. This is what I think of the body swap theory.

[analyticalkeys]

Ok so im gona try and both verify and in a way contradict the body swap theory. Who here has seen the Matrix? Well if you have you should know that Neo is the anomaly in the Matrix (pattern). Mr. Smith was created to try and balance out Neo's existence and a special connection was made between them. They were almost exactly the same person and seemed to be able to even sense where the other was. By destroying Neo, Mr. Smith was destroying the need for himself and the matrix (pattern) destroyed him as a result. The pattern spun Moridin out so that he balances out Rands existence. When one dies they both die. So in the end Alivia is gona help Rand die by helping him reach Shayol Ghul and making him realize that he must die for the benefit of the entire world (as Trinity does for Neo in the matrix). Then when Rand or Moridin takes over the others body, they will both die. This is what I think of the body swap theory.

 

Interesting idea. I wonder if it could be as simple as Alivia hurting/killing Moridin, and thus helping Rand die.

[Ryamano]

Maybe that means Mashadar (the mindless evil of Aridhol), the Dark One's evil, and Machin Shin combine and struggle for control of all evil... Evil does not like to share, and I cant see them allowing each other to exist while they try to take control of the world.

 

No.

 

Cadsuane is pretty sure that the "three" are indeed the two women and one man needed to safely use Callandor. This would be Rand and two other women. I'm further guessing that this will be key to beating the Dark One (and I even suspect the mechanics of how it will happen, but... meh) and that one of the two women will be Alivia.

 

The game will be changed.

 

RJ said the greatest gift to (real) human history was moving beyond the idea that time is cyclical. I don't hold the idea that the turning of "the Wheel" can only be broken by a Dark One victory..

 

Sorry if someone already pointed this, I read this thread only until page 20.

 

I agree with the post above. My theory is that Rand will kill the DO (no idea how) and change the way history is made (make time somehow more linear). The analogy I'm thinking of is that of a wheel. The way it's now, it's spinning, but it's static, spinning at the same place. Thay's why people commit the same mistake every era (one of the reason's behind Rand's pessimism in the end of TGS).

 

Ishmael thought the only way to end this was through the DO, destroying the pattern. But what if by killing the DO once and for all Rand changes the way the wheel is turning. What if it makes so that the wheel starts to go forward, still turning and having ages, but never being quite the same again. Getting better with each turn. Eventually achieving perfection (Nirvana) where happinness is complete.

 

Also, could Ishmael turn to the light if Rand made this argument? Just a thought. Was the champion of the Dark ever swayed to the Light?

 

Looking at the Fourth Age prophecies / history, it does seem the end of the Third Age is the beginning of something different.

 

And it came to pass in those days, as it had come before and would come again, that the Dark lay heavy on the land and weighed down the hearts of men, and the green things failed, and hope died. And men cried out to the Creator, saying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.

 

Notice the would and not will.

 

And it was written that no hand but his should wield the Sword held in the Stone, but he did draw it out, like fire in his hand, and his glory did burn the world. Thus did it begin. Thus do we sing his Rebirth. Thus do we sing the beginning.

 

"The" beginning, anyone? There shouldn't be "the" beginnings to the turning of the wheel of time, only "a" beginnings (from the first chapter of every book).

 

Notice as well that "the" beginning starts with Rand drawing Callandor. Another point to it being pivotal to defeating the DO, not only sealing it.

 

My guess is that the last chapter of the wheel of time series will have a wind that announces the beginning of something new, being slightly different from the beginning of the first chapter of every book.

[Aleron688]

Ok so im gona try and both verify and in a way contradict the body swap theory. Who here has seen the Matrix? Well if you have you should know that Neo is the anomaly in the Matrix (pattern). Mr. Smith was created to try and balance out Neo's existence and a special connection was made between them. They were almost exactly the same person and seemed to be able to even sense where the other was. By destroying Neo, Mr. Smith was destroying the need for himself and the matrix (pattern) destroyed him as a result. The pattern spun Moridin out so that he balances out Rands existence. When one dies they both die. So in the end Alivia is gona help Rand die by helping him reach Shayol Ghul and making him realize that he must die for the benefit of the entire world (as Trinity does for Neo in the matrix). Then when Rand or Moridin takes over the others body, they will both die. This is what I think of the body swap theory.

 

are you talking of back in the Age of Legends?  because he was not spun out this time... he was released from his prison.  And since i have no proof to disprove all this nonsense, i am content with waiting till the last 2 books come out, and then i'll be back and can tell you crazy people that you are all wrong :D lol

[toss the dice]

Ok so im gona try and both verify and in a way contradict the body swap theory. Who here has seen the Matrix? Well if you have you should know that Neo is the anomaly in the Matrix (pattern). Mr. Smith was created to try and balance out Neo's existence and a special connection was made between them. They were almost exactly the same person and seemed to be able to even sense where the other was. By destroying Neo, Mr. Smith was destroying the need for himself and the matrix (pattern) destroyed him as a result. The pattern spun Moridin out so that he balances out Rands existence. When one dies they both die. So in the end Alivia is gona help Rand die by helping him reach Shayol Ghul and making him realize that he must die for the benefit of the entire world (as Trinity does for Neo in the matrix). Then when Rand or Moridin takes over the others body, they will both die. This is what I think of the body swap theory.

 

are you talking of back in the Age of Legends?  because he was not spun out this time... he was released from his prison.  And since i have no proof to disprove all this nonsense, i am content with waiting till the last 2 books come out, and then i'll be back and can tell you crazy people that you are all wrong :D lol

Actually he was released from his prison, destroyed and then reborn. But the point im trying to make is that if one dies, the other dies.

[Declan]

well the DO brought him back from the grave. it was not in the natural turning of the wheel that he was brought back, so can't really say he is tied in the pattern with Rand in that way.

[Aleron688]

well the DO brought him back from the grave. it was not in the natural turning of the wheel that he was brought back, so can't really say he is tied in the pattern with Rand in that way.

 

this.  he was killed, and then the DO brought him back (or his soul and implanted it into a host)... so i don't understand how he is connected at all anymore

[mossman87]

Ok so im gona try and both verify and in a way contradict the body swap theory. Who here has seen the Matrix? Well if you have you should know that Neo is the anomaly in the Matrix (pattern). Mr. Smith was created to try and balance out Neo's existence and a special connection was made between them. They were almost exactly the same person and seemed to be able to even sense where the other was. By destroying Neo, Mr. Smith was destroying the need for himself and the matrix (pattern) destroyed him as a result. The pattern spun Moridin out so that he balances out Rands existence. When one dies they both die. So in the end Alivia is gona help Rand die by helping him reach Shayol Ghul and making him realize that he must die for the benefit of the entire world (as Trinity does for Neo in the matrix). Then when Rand or Moridin takes over the others body, they will both die. This is what I think of the body swap theory.

 

are you talking of back in the Age of Legends?  because he was not spun out this time... he was released from his prison.  And since i have no proof to disprove all this nonsense, i am content with waiting till the last 2 books come out, and then i'll be back and can tell you crazy people that you are all wrong :D lol

Actually he was released from his prison, destroyed and then reborn. But the point im trying to make is that if one dies, the other dies.

 

Yar, but Ishy was already killed and Rand didn't die.  It could be because of the balefire crossing, and then you could say the Pattern made them cross streams so they would be connected, I guess.

[Dr. Love]

Ok so im gona try and both verify and in a way contradict the body swap theory. Who here has seen the Matrix? Well if you have you should know that Neo is the anomaly in the Matrix (pattern). Mr. Smith was created to try and balance out Neo's existence and a special connection was made between them. They were almost exactly the same person and seemed to be able to even sense where the other was. By destroying Neo, Mr. Smith was destroying the need for himself and the matrix (pattern) destroyed him as a result. The pattern spun Moridin out so that he balances out Rands existence. When one dies they both die. So in the end Alivia is gona help Rand die by helping him reach Shayol Ghul and making him realize that he must die for the benefit of the entire world (as Trinity does for Neo in the matrix). Then when Rand or Moridin takes over the others body, they will both die. This is what I think of the body swap theory.

 

are you talking of back in the Age of Legends?  because he was not spun out this time... he was released from his prison.  And since i have no proof to disprove all this nonsense, i am content with waiting till the last 2 books come out, and then i'll be back and can tell you crazy people that you are all wrong :D lol

Actually he was released from his prison, destroyed and then reborn. But the point im trying to make is that if one dies, the other dies.

 

Yar, but Ishy was already killed and Rand didn't die.  It could be because of the balefire crossing, and then you could say the Pattern made them cross streams so they would be connected, I guess.

 

Rand is ta'veren, he brings to him what he needs, often times before he needs it, and without him even knowing he needs it. Maybe the whole point was so that he could get out of the male a'dam. Maybe it's for more. But I think it's safe to assume that it was important/meant to happen and that it was the pattern or Rand's ta'veren nature or whatever you want to call it that wound up tugging Moridin there to help Rand and to pull Mashadar into an area they were both in so they would both resort to balefire.

[Calderis]

I posted this in another thread, and am new here, and thought this thread probably more fitting, so I have a question...

 

I'm sure this has probably come up and been beat to death in other area's of the forums seein as I'm new here but...

 

has anyone considered the "his blood will be spilled" prophesy to be Galad dying?

 

Galad is Rand's half brother, and as far as I know his only living "blood" even if Galad doesn't know this.

 

has this already been shot down?

[Ged]

Shot down on account of being boring :)

[Seven of Nine]

Shot down on account of being boring :)

My aren't you receptive to ideas. Shame on you.  >:(

 

Calderis--interesting idea. I'm relatively new here, and I have not heard this. I think it would be an good play on the wording of the prophecy. If this is what RJ wanted to do with the story, I believe it would give the necessary leeway to make it happen.

[ohaitharguiz]

no its for certain... you cant contradict luckers, hes like the nae'blis of this forum :P

And I'm like the Shai'tan. And of course you can contradict Luckers. It's a risk, but it's survivable.

 

A demigod who got locked in jail for 3000 years by regular dudes? Not very impressive.

[Mr Ares]

no its for certain... you cant contradict luckers, hes like the nae'blis of this forum :P

And I'm like the Shai'tan. And of course you can contradict Luckers. It's a risk, but it's survivable.

A demigod who got locked in jail for 3000 years by regular dudes? Not very impressive.

Well, according to the theology of the series, a god was locked up by another god, and he was prevented from breaking out from his prison by some normal dudes, but satisfied Himself with causing all those dudes to crazy (and every other male channeler for the next 3,000 years). I'm prepared to be patient. You were lucky this time, Dragon. I only have to get lucky once.

[Aleron688]

no its for certain... you cant contradict luckers, hes like the nae'blis of this forum :P

And I'm like the Shai'tan. And of course you can contradict Luckers. It's a risk, but it's survivable.

A demigod who got locked in jail for 3000 years by regular dudes? Not very impressive.

Well, according to the theology of the series, a god was locked up by another god, and he was prevented from breaking out from his prison by some normal dudes, but satisfied Himself with causing all those dudes to crazy (and every other male channeler for the next 3,000 years). I'm prepared to be patient. You were lucky this time, Dragon. I only have to get lucky once.

 

i am convinced. you are shai'tan.  (convincing argument has been bolded)

[Calderis]

interesting idea. I'm relatively new here, and I have not heard this. I think it would be an good play on the wording of the prophecy. If this is what RJ wanted to do with the story, I believe it would give the necessary leeway to make it happen.

 

I've always thought Galad had a larger role to play, as he's been a fairly minor character, and when you get down to it, does anyone other than Rand know about the blood connection with Galad? The Aiel know who his mother is, but don't care about Galad...

 

And Rand at this point has seemed to give up on connections in general (which is gonna change now, thank the bloody light), so even though he is aware that he's related to Galad, I don't think it's something he's really considered. So at TG I could see Galad pulling his "have to do what's right" schtick and doing something to fall in Rand's place, and only afterwords does Rand realize the blood connection fulfills the prophesy.