Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[Ged]

Except that its because of this and to make a point with Rand that Tuon attacks the White Tower, which she wouldn't have done if she was allied with Rand.

 

Its supposed to be like: ta'veren bend the Pattern, and the Pattern bends ta'veren much harder :P

 

Its like: Can one of Min's viewings fail? Not unless the Pattern is screwed.

 

Rand for example has been a stooge doing everything the Pattern wanted, no matter his desires... also getting saved by the Pattern no matter his incompetence. The world depending on someone like Rand as a leader under normal circumstances would be a truly terrifying prospect :)

 

In any case, forcing Tuon to bend was really not that difficult a problem... Rand just chose not to bother after having put in 5 seconds of effort and not immediately getting the result he wanted.

[randfandom]

And now to the reason I dropped by the board today :P

Was just reading TGS again, and saw the part where Rand has just erased Graendal, and then Nynaeve is half supporting Rand's choice, and Min like Cadsuane is going on about their usual 'Do we dare send him to the Last Battle like this? It won't be victory if he goes against the DO as he is' crap. Seriously, its like having a dog that can't think past its supper or its feelings for its master, thinking that it understands the needs of an entire world and should be making choices.

So far, apart from their feelings about what they want or how they feel things should be, none of them has presented one reason that suggests that there would be an advantage to Rand and the world if he goes against the DO changed.

 

Cadsuane's concern is that Rand's mental/physical state directly impacts the land and his chances against the DO. Recall the prophecy (paraphrased from memory) "There can be no good, nor green things grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone. In pride he conquers, calling on the mountains to yield, the seas to give way... Pray the heart of stone knows tears and the soul of fire love."

If the land is to get better, Rand must be healed - spiritually and physically, except no one knows how to heal him physically, and they probably are not aware how serious his physical state is.

 

Min is concerned for the man she loves, but as such she sees even further. Rand may be hard, but brittle. The smallest provocation throws him in a rage - he nearly massacred the borderlanders just because he thought they tried to manipulate and capture him. He suffers from panic attacks and flushbacks constantly (any confinement reminds him of his kidnapping and torture - look at the short PoV he has in WH when he is imprisoned in Far Madding). In this state, can he really face the ultimate challenge - fighting the DO - who is likely to use these weaknesses to break him?

 

Like it or not, restoring Rand's balance, humanity and sanity, or as much as possible anyway, is a prerequisit for his victory.

He can't fight the DO and win in his tGS state - unless he erases the last vestiges of humanity and becomes as evil as Moridin - which would leave a destroyed world, if anything, behind.

 

[Fjaman]

Did anyone notice that in one of The dragons ramblings in Rands head when he thinks about how asmodean would be useful for something One power related, i dont remember the exact passage, he rambles "I shouldnt have killed him..." Is this the hint to Asmodeans killer that was supposed to be in the gathering storm, that lews therin was responsible for his death !????

Am i the only one who noticed this? Thoughts?

[Aleron688]

Did anyone notice that in one of The dragons ramblings in Rands head when he thinks about how asmodean would be useful for something One power related, i dont remember the exact passage, he rambles "I shouldnt have killed him..." Is this the hint to Asmodeans killer that was supposed to be in the gathering storm, that lews therin was responsible for his death !????

Am i the only one who noticed this? Thoughts?

 

i definitely don't remember LTT ever saying he killed Asmodean.  Please FIND THAT QUOTE! I'd love to see it word for word.

[Ged]

We know that Rand is one with the land. Cadsuane... debateable.

 

I'm not sure where the idea of hard means brittle started to apply to humans. What's wrong with Rand is that he doesn't have the ability to maintain his detachment. His whole 'I feel no emotion' bit rings completely false. More like 'I'm trying to restrain my emotions until they explode again'

 

Blasting some of the Borderlander armies to teach them a lesson wasn't really a horrible idea, even if there were other simpler and better options. What do you think the President's opinion would be (let's assume while the country is at war), if possible allies showed obvious signs of wanting to kidnap him? ...If they're useful, putting them in their place isn't a bad idea. If they're not useful, destroying them would be a perfectly good idea rather than risk them causing more trouble later.

 

Choices made when things are desperate are very different from choices made during peace time. If the human race as a whole was at risk, there would be a lot of 'do what it takes to survive'. Its kinda like how democracy has things going for it in peaceful times... it is however a very inefficient system. A single leader who actually knows what he's doing is always preferable to such a system (if he knows what he's doing). In Randland, all of this division of forces and separate political allegiances are not really well suited to the needs of the time.

 

 

... It would be rather amusing, if in a world like Randland, you instead had someone like the Buddha to lead the forces of light :)

... There's a time and place for everything, and some tools are better suited to certain situations than others.

 

 

If the DO was fighting seriously, there would be no choice but to fight him back as seriously... which is not the case, so admittedly Rand can afford to be nicer since his actions and apparently the actions of anyone else don't matter anyway, and the Pattern is going to take him to where he needs to be to die how he needs to die to save a meaningless existence where everyone is ruled by the Pattern... pathetic.

[Seven of Nine]

Except that its because of this and to make a point with Rand that Tuon attacks the White Tower, which she wouldn't have done if she was allied with Rand.

 

Its supposed to be like: ta'veren bend the Pattern, and the Pattern bends ta'veren much harder :P

 

Its like: Can one of Min's viewings fail? Not unless the Pattern is screwed.

 

Rand for example has been a stooge doing everything the Pattern wanted, no matter his desires... also getting saved by the Pattern no matter his incompetence. The world depending on someone like Rand as a leader under normal circumstances would be a truly terrifying prospect :)

 

In any case, forcing Tuon to bend was really not that difficult a problem... Rand just chose not to bother after having put in 5 seconds of effort and not immediately getting the result he wanted.

Thinking through this here. . . Egwene dreamed that the Seachan were going to attack the tower, so was it Rand's Tavereness that caused the dream and then that same Tavereness caused the events that led up to Rand using the TP which caused the darkness about him which prompted Tuon to refuse him and attack the WT instead . . .

 

Is Tavereness something from the Creator?

[waggawagga]

In order to break the remaining seals will Rand have to use the TP again?  Since they are made of cuendillar, not even balefire will destroy them.

 

They were weak enough for Moiraine to scrape off a a sliver of it with her belt knife.

 

Been getting a lot of entertainment from reading this forum for a long time (thanks!) but never posted.

 

I have a question, if the cuendillar seals were subjected to balefire would they not grow stronger? I am sure they wouldn't but could anybody explain why please? Is it just the DO taint?

 

In terms of Rands role in TOM I am convinced that the book will see him make reperations with all manner of people although not in enormous detail as i think it will be Perrin and Matt's book but i think it will end with the breaking of the seals to the dark ones prison setting up tarmon gaidon very nicely for AMOL.

[toss the dice]

ok to answer everyone whos saying that Rand's taveren came up against a block when he went to Tuon.

 

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,

wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.

Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,

may learn the truth too late.

 

[Declan]

yeah. listen to the guy above me.

 

sure Rand is Ta'veren but that doesn't mean he can change the pattern to his will. Its meant as something to correct the affects of the shadow and help him out. Not totally change the pattern and the prophecies; otherwise the world will EXPLODE! haha

[Calderis]

Just have to say, the word "Tavereness" really bothers me.

[Declan]

Just have to say, the word "Tavereness" really bothers me.

 

hahahahaha. i think its funny. but yeah i can see why some dont like it.

 

I can't wait to see the 3 become 1 thing and have it be something small. i will laugh so hard. it would be amazing.

[Obligatory WOT Reference]

Since I didn't actually read the 88 pages of notes posted before me, I have no idea if this was answered or not. Q: How has Elza Penfell served Rand "in her fashion"? Was it when she killed Osan'gar in WH? Because that would be such a cop out.

[Me]

I can't wait to see the 3 become 1 thing and have it be something small. i will laugh so hard. it would be amazing.

 

Does Rand being bonded by Min, Elayne and Aviendha count?

 

makes sense to me, Elayne uses that Aiel first sister soul bond thingy to form Rands warder bond.

two of them can chanel so that covers callandor.

anything im missing?

 

...Just my guess

 

[maradon]

Q: How has Elza Penfell served Rand "in her fashion"? Was it when she killed Osan'gar in WH? Because that would be such a cop out.

 

I don't believe so. The DO wants Rand to make it to the last battle for some reason (it is said somewhere in the books I'm fairly certain), so Elze was serving the DO by keeping Rand alive as long as she could. Hence serving in her own fashion, if that makes sense.

[Sharaman]

What odds that Rand will go through a second bout of madness?

A more dangerous one because he thinks he's returned from Cuckooland.

I'm also not sure that the blindness prophesy is completely fulfilled - he still has that blurry vision thing.

 

[SimpleJo]

What odds that Rand will go through a second bout of madness?

A more dangerous one because he thinks he's returned from Cuckooland.

I'm also not sure that the blindness prophesy is completely fulfilled - he still has that blurry vision thing.

 

What do you mean second bout of madness?  Just because he has come back from the brink of letting the Shadow have him does not mean he still is not as insane as ever.  The insanity and his wounds are not going to be cured until he somehow fullfills the prophecy of "Healing the wounds of madness".  He has learned to still have hope and to keep the capacity to love which is the first step to curing his insanity and possibly live again but by no means is he sane by any accepted definition of the term.

 

As per Brandon the Beggar's prophecy was fully fullfilled in Ebou Dar.  The "blindness" was metaphorical not physical.

[fikkie77]

The wounds of madness were healed by cleansing saidin: male channelers won't get mad anymore.

[SimpleJo]

The wounds of madness were healed by cleansing saidin: male channelers won't get mad anymore.

It is far more specific than that.  My bet is the capability of healing the Taint that is in any male channeller prior to the cleasing.  Or possibly the specific wounds in his side made by Fain and Ishy.  Wounds infers the damage the taint caused not the removal of the cause.  The cleansing is just the first step in my opinion.

[dhill]

I don't know were to put this but what happened to Alanna's other warder

Ivhon after book six I don't remember seeing or hearing about him.

[Declan]

The wounds of madness were healed by cleansing saidin: male channelers won't get mad anymore.

It is far more specific than that.  My bet is the capability of healing the Taint that is in any male channeller prior to the cleasing.  Or possibly the specific wounds in his side made by Fain and Ishy.  Wounds infers the damage the taint caused not the removal of the cause.  The cleansing is just the first step in my opinion.

 

I may not agree that it is going to be the healing of madness or taint that is already inside of a channeler, but didn't Elan or rather Ishmael heal Lews Therin of his madness so that he could see what he had done. so we know it can be done.

[mossman87]

The wounds of madness were healed by cleansing saidin: male channelers won't get mad anymore.

It is far more specific than that.  My bet is the capability of healing the Taint that is in any male channeller prior to the cleasing.  Or possibly the specific wounds in his side made by Fain and Ishy.  Wounds infers the damage the taint caused not the removal of the cause.  The cleansing is just the first step in my opinion.

 

I may not agree that it is going to be the healing of madness or taint that is already inside of a channeler, but didn't Elan or rather Ishmael heal Lews Therin of his madness so that he could see what he had done. so we know it can be done.

 

Yeah but he used the True Power most likely to fix LTT.

 

May need the power of the DO to rid the DO's power from them.

[randfandom]

I don't know were to put this but what happened to Alanna's other warder

Ivhon after book six I don't remember seeing or hearing about him.

 

well we see him in book 9 after Alanna faints, following Rand's bonding. I am sure he is still with her, but she gets so little screen time after that, and generally warders stay outside when Aes Sedai speak.

[saidarisnowtainted]

One thing that has always bugged me, and which i havent seen discussed while lurking (could have missed it) dates back to the EOTW Prologue.

 

Basically, it makes no sense to me how Ishamael healed LTT's insanity.  We've learned over the years that while the taint continues to taint a channeller, even if you remove the taint, the residual effects of previous exposure remain. 

 

Did this bother anyone else?

 

If there is no apparrent explanation in the books, does this give us a clue to things to come regarding Rand?

[StefanR]

He could have connected Lews Therin to the DO for a short time to give him the protection that the forsaken had?

 

Or there's some crazy healing that was lost to everybody in this age

[Muad Cheade]

One thing that has always bugged me, and which i havent seen discussed while lurking (could have missed it) dates back to the EOTW Prologue.

 

Basically, it makes no sense to me how Ishamael healed LTT's insanity.  We've learned over the years that while the taint continues to taint a channeller, even if you remove the taint, the residual effects of previous exposure remain. 

 

Did this bother anyone else?

 

If there is no apparrent explanation in the books, does this give us a clue to things to come regarding Rand?

 

I believe it was because Lews Therin didn't undergo the continued exposure to the taint that current male channelers had to deal with. He became mad instantly (along with the other Hundred Companions) and from his dialogue in TGS, he seemed to imply he directly touched the Dark One. That leads me to think that:

    A). He had a different type of madness.

    B). The fact that he had directly connected with the Dark One meant the Dark One had some sort of control of the taint.

    C). Like StefanR said, Ishamael gave him that filter the Forsaken receive.