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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
JenniferL

Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

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Didn't read most of the thread, but I saw this mentioned a few times.

 

Everyone knows that Elayne is Ilyenna spun out of the pattern again right? I thought that was a given.

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I didn't read through this whole thing, but I've tried to keep track of some of the things that have popped up a few times....

 

I have to ask: Is anyone else just blown away at how casually Tam smacked Cadsuanne down?

 

In the entire book series, there are maybe 2 male figures that are calmly powerful in their presence and thoughtfulness (versus many more women who are presented as such).

 

To see Tam of all people tell Cadsuanne that she's a bully was just freaking awesome.

 

Of all the people I wanted to see, I never expected myself to WANT so much more Tam now. Someone bond that man!

 

Joe

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I apologize if this was raised previously and I missed it, but is anyone else slightly bummed that Rand did not confront Taim while he was in his emotionnless state (and in possession of the access key!).  I expect that confrontation to be a key plot point, but I think it would have been interesting to see Rand put Taim in his place while Rand was in that state of mind, with that much power.

 

Just dreaming, I guess...

 

 

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Forgot to mention...I agree with TreeJoe - that confrontation was awesome, and I definitely would like to see more of Tam.  He reminds me a lot of Lan.

 

And it sure was nice to see a lowly shepherd put Cadsuane in her place.  A little ironic, actually, that Egwene used a similar tactic on Elaida (although to Cadsuane's credit, she recognized that Tam was correct, while Elaida just flew deeper into a rage).

 

I guess I'm slipping off topic, so I'll zip it.

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Indeed he will. Your point?

 

Point being he will stop wondering whether he can survive TG.He will just concentrate on trying to win the Last Battle...

 

Btw i was surprised we didnt get to know a bit more abt Alivia.She was mentioned here and there but there was nothing more abt her "training".I was one of the few who thought she would be the one who killed Graendal

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I have to ask: Is anyone else just blown away at how casually Tam smacked Cadsuanne down?

 

In the entire book series, there are maybe 2 male figures that are calmly powerful in their presence and thoughtfulness (versus many more women who are presented as such).

 

To see Tam of all people tell Cadsuanne that she's a bully was just freaking awesome.

 

Of all the people I wanted to see, I never expected myself to WANT so much more Tam now. Someone bond that man!

 

Joe

I completely loved that scene. That is the exact way i've looked at Cadsuane and a lot of other AS. Wise Ones for example seem to have a much better relationship with the people around them (probably partly due to ji'e'toh).

 

Something else that has come to my mind:

"To live, you must die"

Considering Rands epiphany in Veins of Gold, will he now only see this as "in order to live again the next age/age X, you must die in this one"?

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Didn't read most of the thread, but I saw this mentioned a few times.

 

Everyone knows that Elayne is Ilyenna spun out of the pattern again right? I thought that was a given.

 

i have no idea where you are getting this as a given, but i disagree. Basically because there is nothing to support that. No where is it mentioned that Illyena will always be spun out with the Dragon reborn; they aren't fated lovers like Birgitte and Gaidal Cain. IMO

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I don't think Elayne is Illeyna reborn either. I mentioned either here or in the whole book thread that I thought Demandred would try to kill her or take her from Rand, as he was in love with Illeyna in the Age of Legends, but I didn't say she was the rebirth of that soul.

 

Big Moose, I love your signature. That part/line has always made me laugh.

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Just finished, this book is in my top 3 WoT books for sure.

 

I read the first few comments, and here are my thoughts.

 

When he "Wields a sword of Light and 3 become one", did anybody connect that to what he did in "Veins of Gold"? He mentioned that he and Lews Therin had never been different people, but I think he still counts as two becoming one. Moridin wasn't there, but do you think that affected him at all?

 

The emo routine was a bit annoying, but I've got to admit, emo Rand is a badass. "How would you deal with the situation?" "Hrm, ask for advice?" "Good idea, I think I'll use Balefire!"

 

I was a bit disappointed in his meeting with Tuon, but I can't say I didn't expect what happened. I mean, Egwene DID dream an attack. I was also disappointed that he didn't blow up the Seanchan, but then he really didn't have a choice either, and I like the Dragonmount scene more than falme anyway.

 

Final thought: Does anybody think the quote "The Light is a lie!" will ever catch on? (Page 757, he says "Maybe the Light was a lie all along!" about halfway down the page. I lolled.)

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I apologize if this was raised previously and I missed it, but is anyone else slightly bummed that Rand did not confront Taim while he was in his emotionnless state (and in possession of the access key!).  I expect that confrontation to be a key plot point, but I think it would have been interesting to see Rand put Taim in his place while Rand was in that state of mind, with that much power.

 

Rand would have gone out of control (or his LTT side would) and probably kill all the Ashaman. It's a good thing he did not go there.

 

I don't see him confronting Taim - this will be Logain's moment of glory. Rand's task is winning the Last Battle, not running the Black or White Tower. Rand has been completely disconnected from the BT since book 6, whereas Logain is an integral part of it and thus the right person to heal it and link it with the WT. Rand is not there to rule nations or military organizations, even ones he himself initiated.

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Just a thought, has anybody thought since Taim was a false dragon and is acting like he will be the Dragon Reborn once Rand is killed, that Min's viewing of Logain stepping over a body of Rand that just crumbled away was referring to Taim.

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Some food for thought.  A while back someone mentioned Fain being the buffer for sealing the bore.  At the time I didn't quite understand what was meant but after some thought I came up with a, what I think is interesting, idea. (btw I still don't see how Fain can be the buffer since he can not channel)...

 

What if (again someone else mentioned but I don't recall who)the TP Rand wielded was against any prior knowledge or permission from Morridin and as a result the DO does not know that Rand touched it (after all the DO is not omnipotent) because it passed through Morridin first...this is of course under the assumption that he accessed the TP through Morridin...well couldn't that mean that the buffer that is needed when touching the bore is not Fain but Morridin?  The TP passes through Morridin and therefore the DO thinks its Morridin who is accessing it, but unbeknownst to the DO, it is actually being wielded by Rand who is using it to seal the bore?

 

IDK how possible it is, with my reasoning it seems to fit.  So my question is, what flaws are there in this? (as I'm sure there are plenty that I can't see and there are plenty of people who would be more than happy to point out each and every one)

 

btw, sorry if I seem to be rambling, got the big bad flu and as hard as I try to think coherently right now, chances are I'm extremely confusing. (though its seems logical and clear to me...even with a fever ;) )

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I like that thought.  The problem is that (1) Brandon Sanderson said at a recent signing that nobody uses the TP without the DOs permission and (2) This is just a theory, but most people seem to agree that it was Moridin's and the Do's plan all along to get Rand to use the TP.

 

Whether or not that is true, I think it is a smart idea for the DO to get Rand to use it.  It gives the DO power of Rand... Hopefully.  Especially now that the CK is broken, Rand can be even more tempted to use the TP in the future.

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Some food for thought.  A while back someone mentioned Fain being the buffer for sealing the bore.  At the time I didn't quite understand what was meant but after some thought I came up with a, what I think is interesting, idea. (btw I still don't see how Fain can be the buffer since he can not channel)...

 

What if (again someone else mentioned but I don't recall who)the TP Rand wielded was against any prior knowledge or permission from Morridin and as a result the DO does not know that Rand touched it (after all the DO is not omnipotent) because it passed through Morridin first...this is of course under the assumption that he accessed the TP through Morridin...well couldn't that mean that the buffer that is needed when touching the bore is not Fain but Morridin?  The TP passes through Morridin and therefore the DO thinks its Morridin who is accessing it, but unbeknownst to the DO, it is actually being wielded by Rand who is using it to seal the bore?

 

IDK how possible it is, with my reasoning it seems to fit.  So my question is, what flaws are there in this? (as I'm sure there are plenty that I can't see and there are plenty of people who would be more than happy to point out each and every one)

 

btw, sorry if I seem to be rambling, got the big bad flu and as hard as I try to think coherently right now, chances are I'm extremely confusing. (though its seems logical and clear to me...even with a fever  )

 

I have thought when Rand and the DO begin their battle Fain will pop out and scream "Rand is MINE to kill!!!" and launch himself at the DO. Both Evils will begin to do battle like Rand's wounds. Rand and his buddies will seal both like Flinn did for Rand. With both the DO and Fain in the bore, Evil will kill itself. The End :)

 

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If the dark one is vanquished, a new one will take its place, because there needs to be a new dark one so that the wheel can turn back to a time when he is forgotten and released. but my assumption of what will happen is, once he is defeated it will begin a NEW turning of the wheel, so when new ages come, not all the same things will happen again, perhaps that is what happens when there is a LAST BATTLE, although if it goes back to a normal turning of the wheel it is pretty pointless, seeing as whatever they do wont matter.

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Yes, it would be a bit like the film "Groundhog Day." I think once Rand (LTT) gets it right, that paticular wheel will be done and some new scenarios (ages) can come about. Hope so anyway.

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Don't be a prat Ares.

 

Yes, Vambram, Rand is the reincarnation of Lews Therin. This is, as Ares rather caustically pointed out, one of the underlying concepts of the series, and something we've known since book one.

 

 

 

WELL, Mr. Ares can be a prat, and his sarcasm does not really bother me. However, in the various debates that I have read and taken part in here on Dragonmount regarding LTT and Rand al`Thor.. There was not always a majority agreement or the Reincarnation being a "known fact" by the readers and posters here on Dragonmount. I am fairly sure that y'all remember the various theories concerning the Dragon Soul, and the speculation concerning Lews Therin's voice in Rand's mind. But, I believe it is extremely clear after TGS to the point that there is extremely little room to debate this issue, that Rand al`Thor IS THE Literal Reincarnation of Lews Therin Telamon.(sp).

This fact was not always considered a well known fact by the mods and posters and experts here ... and certainly not supposedly (in my opinion) since book 1, The Eye of the World.

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Question: will rand ever have to kill another woman again? If he does, will he actually kill them? Cyndae, Moggy, Aran'gar and Mesaana are left. If rand encounters any of them, especially cyndane, will he do like the crazy rand did and balefire them or will he act like the sane rand and not do what's necessary? Theories? Thoughts? Comments?

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i hope he balefires Cyndane. Lanfear gets everything that is coming to her. But then again i don't want him to slip into DarthRand again, so im hoping he won't ever have to confront them. Maybe just have Alivia kill them while he shields them or pretends like there is nothing happening.

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Yes, it would be a bit like the film "Groundhog Day." I think once Rand (LTT) gets it right, that paticular wheel will be done and some new scenarios (ages) can come about. Hope so anyway.

 

There has to be some reason why the books are about THIS incarnation of the dragon, so we must assume something different or special happens. Whether this is the DO's closest chance at winning ever or Rand perma-seals away or kills the DO we'll see.

That he brought up killing him and got the same reaction everyone gave him when he cleansed saidin makes me think he'll succeed.

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You cant kill the dark one, he could possibly vanquish him in a sense of his essence being destroyed but his spirit remaining, and that is how he can be sealed back up properly. Other than that if the dark one does indeed die, then someone else or something else would take his place.

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