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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
JenniferL

Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

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I dunno if this has been touched on yet, but couldn't rand and co. refill the eye of the world, and use that for the purpose of helping seal the Dark One's Prison. I'm still not onboard with the whole theory that the true power will be used to seal it, and I won't be until the words are typed on paper. if then.

 

RJ says no to this question he does leave open the possibility of them making another sacrifice to fill it back up but I am not sure anyone would know how to go about it.  It also seems like it is a lot less useful now that the taint is gone.

 

Soni: So the Eye of the World is a well, right?

RJ: [pauses] Yes and no. It's in the same class of objects as a well, but on a different scale.

Soni: So could it be refilled by a male channeler?

RJ: No. Remember, lots of Aes Sedai died to make it.

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Here is what I found:

"With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death."

 

- The Fires Of Heaven, Opening prophecy

 

“The wall is pierced”, refers, of course, to the creation of the Bore. “The veil of parting”, refers, I think, to the sealing of the Bore by LTT.

 

So this is how I envision the creation and sealing of the Bore:

“There was once upon a time a happy land with happy people and a big huge endless wall. Two people were very curious what would be behind that wall and started to examine it, till by chance they came they knocked on a stone which sounded different than the others. They started to think of ways how to remove that stone and eventually succeeded.

They looked through the hole and didn’t see a thing, so disappointed they went home. In the world everyone started to notice things were going wrong.” Then there is a part which isn’t important, so we skip to the end “A man decided to go to the hole and fill it up in secret, he got a lot of resistance from every woman, so he decided to go their himself . Once their he didn’t really know what to do so he put up his clothes as a veil to prevent the filth getting in. Of course there still came some filth through.”

Those clothes represent saidin, which was in due tainted, slowly the clothes absorbed all sort of filth from the DO. The result of the absorption is now noticed because of the fact you only have to touch the veil make a hole in the veil.

 

 

Problem with this is...

The opening and ending prophecies of the books are always fulfilled in those books. The Wall being pierced and the veil being raised is the Dragonwall being pierced by the Aiel, who veil themselves before they kill. Fires of Heaven was the book that the Aiel came over the Dragonwall.

 

 

Also, for the opening of the Bore, it wasn't like some really large wall that just keeps the Dark One back with a stone. In The Shadow Rising it describes Lanfear creating the hole in the Bore because she could sense the True Power, and wanted both male and female Aes Sedai to be able to use from the same power source. So she bored a hole, using the One Power, into "The Bore".

 

This did not happen: "They looked through the hole and didn’t see a thing, so disappointed they went home. In the world everyone started to notice things were going wrong."

 

This did happen: As soon as she put the hole into the Bore, the DO immediately touched the world, the world rippled with shock, and the gigantic building that held many of the Aes Sedai exploded into fire. This is all from the chapter, The Dedicated, in the Shadow Rising.

 

 

 

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This seems to suggest there is some sort of prophecy amongst the Tuatha’an that when they sing the right song the Age of Legends will return, keep in mind that in the Age of Legends the Bore was properly sealed.

 

If the bore was properly sealed during the Age of Legends Why was LTT trying to seal the DO up?

During the last few pages of Rand POV in TGS it was mention by LTT that the Seals must be broken, I assumed this was because the ones that LTT built weren't good enough to hold the DO.

 

I do see the Song being part of the final battle and I think it does have something to do with the completion of the sealing of the DO, but the Seals themselves have to be recreated or built and I can only see both sides of the One Power being able to do that, with Rand being the buffer between the DO and the two sides of the One Power.

 

Oh well thats my two cents worth. will wait with baited breath to see whos theory pans out.

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Here is what I found:

"With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death."

 

- The Fires Of Heaven, Opening prophecy

 

The wall is pierced, refers, of course, to the creation of the Bore. The veil of parting, refers, I think, to the sealing of the Bore by LTT.

 

So this is how I envision the creation and sealing of the Bore:

There was once upon a time a happy land with happy people and a big huge endless wall. Two people were very curious what would be behind that wall and started to examine it, till by chance they came they knocked on a stone which sounded different than the others. They started to think of ways how to remove that stone and eventually succeeded.

They looked through the hole and didnt see a thing, so disappointed they went home. In the world everyone started to notice things were going wrong. Then there is a part which isnt important, so we skip to the end A man decided to go to the hole and fill it up in secret, he got a lot of resistance from every woman, so he decided to go their himself . Once their he didnt really know what to do so he put up his clothes as a veil to prevent the filth getting in. Of course there still came some filth through.

Those clothes represent saidin, which was in due tainted, slowly the clothes absorbed all sort of filth from the DO. The result of the absorption is now noticed because of the fact you only have to touch the veil make a hole in the veil.

 

 

Problem with this is...

The opening and ending prophecies of the books are always fulfilled in those books. The Wall being pierced and the veil being raised is the Dragonwall being pierced by the Aiel, who veil themselves before they kill. Fires of Heaven was the book that the Aiel came over the Dragonwall.

 

 

Also, for the opening of the Bore, it wasn't like some really large wall that just keeps the Dark One back with a stone. In The Shadow Rising it describes Lanfear creating the hole in the Bore because she could sense the True Power, and wanted both male and female Aes Sedai to be able to use from the same power source. So she bored a hole, using the One Power, into "The Bore".

 

This did not happen: "They looked through the hole and didnt see a thing, so disappointed they went home. In the world everyone started to notice things were going wrong."

 

This did happen: As soon as she put the hole into the Bore, the DO immediately touched the world, the world rippled with shock, and the gigantic building that held many of the Aes Sedai exploded into fire. This is all from the chapter, The Dedicated, in the Shadow Rising.

 

 

 

 

The story is just figurative speech, it may have been wrong on some points, it was just a way of telling something to make it clear to people.

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This seems to suggest there is some sort of prophecy amongst the Tuatha’an that when they sing the right song the Age of Legends will return, keep in mind that in the Age of Legends the Bore was properly sealed.

 

If the bore was properly sealed during the Age of Legends Why was LTT trying to seal the DO up?

 

Because it was opened during AoL. But first it was completely sealed with no sign of any bore. That's how it will eventually end up again. Whether Rand accomplish that or it happens in some future age is another thing of course. Probably Rand will do it however though.

 

So timeline is roughly:

 

Prison is complete. Then during AoL Mierin drills hole in it. War of Shadows ensures. LTT & co seals it but not completely. Then Rand or somebody else in far future will seal it to pre-drilling stage. Then eventually AoL comes up again and it's bored open again.

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But Rand concluded that he's continuing to fight in hopes of getting it right. If he gets it right is it really necessary to spin back to the beginning again? Couldn't it just spin into another age, another cycle and put this one to rest?

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This seems to suggest there is some sort of prophecy amongst the Tuatha’an that when they sing the right song the Age of Legends will return, keep in mind that in the Age of Legends the Bore was properly sealed.

 

If the bore was properly sealed during the Age of Legends Why was LTT trying to seal the DO up?

During the last few pages of Rand POV in TGS it was mention by LTT that the Seals must be broken, I assumed this was because the ones that LTT built weren't good enough to hold the DO.

 

Chiel183 was trying to say that before Mierin and Biedomon drilled the hole, the area where the Bore would be was perfectly sealed.

 

I think he is right insomuch as I believe that the Song will play a role in healing the Blight and/or the Bore, as since it has the ability to make things grow it effectively has the power to undo the Dark One's touch.

 

However I am convinced that the only thing that can truly heal the Bore is the ta'veren effect.

 

You can't heal the Bore with the One Power. It's that simple. You can seal it, but not heal it.

 

Saidin didn't work. It got tainted and the seals are weakening.

 

Saidar wouldn't work for the same reason.

 

Saidin + Saidar wouldn't work. RJ said it would taint both sides of the Power.

 

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saidin and sadar are said to keep the wheel itself turning, there fundamental forces of the universe that keep reality rolling. Using both together to CLOSE the bore instead of just placing something over it could work.

 

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Once again,

 

“Q:  Why saidin, why not saidar, was tainted?

RJ:  Because there were only men in the party that made up the party that made up the Strike at  Shayol Ghul, that were setting the seals.  In the act of setting the seals, there was a backblast that affected the people doing this.  As I pointed out in something…I wrote a piece called The Strike at Shayol Ghul…there was a great division at the time – I don’t know if all of you have read it…or have none of you read it?

Q:  Yes, yes.

RJ:  Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go.  And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant” [it was actually the “Fateful Concord” – Terez], which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it.  The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted.  And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint.  But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.”

 

Unless saidin and saidar are both going to be tainted after Rand seals the Bore, I don't think that is how it's going to happen.

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lews therin tried to PATCH the bore, he tried to place something over it which would hold the dark one in. We know thats not the solution since in the next turning of the wheel there can be no patch. Im thinking saidin and saidar together can be used on the patern itself to heal the bore, not as a patch.

Its either that or the combined tavern effect, but there werent (as far as we know) 3 taveren in the aol just the dragon.

 

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Are you trying to say that somehow by using saidin and saidar to "heal" the Bore in a different way, they won't be tainted?

 

That's not possible. The problem is that you have to touch the Bore to heal it or seal it with the One Power. This will result in a taint. From the Fourth Age histories, Rand is seen as a messianic figure. I doubt that a double-taint would result in this view of him. It would probably destroy the world.

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lews therin tried to PATCH the bore, he tried to place something over it which would hold the dark one in. We know thats not the solution since in the next turning of the wheel there can be no patch. Im thinking saidin and saidar together can be used on the patern itself to heal the bore, not as a patch.

Its either that or the combined tavern effect, but there werent (as far as we know) 3 taveren in the aol just the dragon.

 

 

The lack of 3 ta'veren in the AoL is not evidence either way.  According to Herid Fel, the pattern goes like this (Fel used somewhat less detail in his explanation, perhaps why Rand didn't get it right off):

 

1. perfect seal - no knowledge of existence of DO

2. Bore into DO prison, chaos

3. Patch on Bore, taint of saidin

4. Breaking of the World

5. weakening of seals/patch

6. destruction of seals (clear the rubble)

7. Dragon et al repair damage of the Bore so that you can no longer tell there was a hole there.  People retain living memory of DO

8. Other ages we know nothing about.  Eventually, get to a point where there's a perfect seal AND no one remembers there's a DO. Rinse & repeat.

 

If the whole opening schtick about this is an age that came before and will come again is at all accurate, then each of these steps must occur, in this order.  LTT was never intended to perfectly seal the DO up.  That wasn't his role in that age.  His role was to create the patch on the Bore & Taint saidin.  If the key to fixing the Bore IS in the presence of 3 ta'veren, the pattern would not create them during the AoL.

 

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What holes need growing with the Ways? And I think that the blue curves on the ter'angreal refer to the threads of the pattern, while I don't know where the blue curves would have to refer to with the Ways.

 

It's a ter'angreal, they're all artistic.  The 'holes' are the gateways that lead from our world into the word of the ways.  I just think it far more likely -- especially as the Ogier have Talismans of Growing that grow holes to the Ways, than some totally new thing. :)

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We received a lot of new information on Callandor and a reminder that 13 suspicious Aes Sedai are still hunting Rand.  There remains the fact that Callandor only works properly if the male channeler is linked in a circle with women.  Min and Cad seem to agree that Rand will need to wield Callandor at TLB with two Aes Sedai linking with him.

 

Rand has come back to his senses and has quieted LTT's voice in his head reminded that he lives to experience life and love again before he faces the DO.  RJ and BS love drama, so I'm going out on a limb with a possible plot progression we may see.

 

Our new Good Hero Rand prepares for TLB.  13 BA complete a ritual to bind him to the Shadow.  The forces of the Light have to use a Domination Band on him (Two Female Aes Sedai linked to control Rand) and force him to wield Callandor against the Shadow at TLB.  These could likely be Nyn and Cad.

 

For some reason the Horn of Valere also needs to be at TLB, so I expect Rand to die prematurely.  Being bound to the Wheel, the Horn-Blower will be able to return him and the other Heroes to finish the battle against the DO.

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We received a lot of new information on Callandor and a reminder that 13 suspicious Aes Sedai are still hunting Rand.  There remains the fact that Callandor only works properly if the male channeler is linked in a circle with women.  Min and Cad seem to agree that Rand will need to wield Callandor at TLB with two Aes Sedai linking with him.

 

Rand has come back to his senses and has quieted LTT's voice in his head reminded that he lives to experience life and love again before he faces the DO.  RJ and BS love drama, so I'm going out on a limb with a possible plot progression we may see.

 

Our new Good Hero Rand prepares for TLB.  13 BA complete a ritual to bind him to the Shadow.  The forces of the Light have to use a Domination Band on him (Two Female Aes Sedai linked to control Rand) and force him to wield Callandor against the Shadow at TLB.  These could likely be Nyn and Cad.

 

For some reason the Horn of Valere also needs to be at TLB, so I expect Rand to die prematurely.  Being bound to the Wheel, the Horn-Blower will be able to return him and the other Heroes to finish the battle against the DO.

 

Man. I really really hope not. Plus I am pretty sure Rand isn't bound to the wheel in that sense.

 

I can be certain that never again will Rand let the domination band placed upon him. And even if the 13 BA got close to him he is never alone anymore even if he is more trusting now. Egwene as a list of BA and she im sure would notify Nynaeve of some names she could look out for in case they come to Rand.

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Our new Good Hero Rand prepares for TLB.  13 BA complete a ritual to bind him to the Shadow.  The forces of the Light have to use a Domination Band on him (Two Female Aes Sedai linked to control Rand) and force him to wield Callandor against the Shadow at TLB.  These could likely be Nyn and Cad.

 

Well if this happens it consistent with the rest of the series, but I think, hope and wish it doesn't.  A Major player is coming back for the ending and I think she'll have a lot of influence where it matters with Rand.

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The lack of 3 ta'veren in the AoL is not evidence either way.  According to Herid Fel, the pattern goes like this (Fel used somewhat less detail in his explanation, perhaps why Rand didn't get it right off):

 

1. perfect seal - no knowledge of existence of DO

2. Bore into DO prison, chaos

3. Patch on Bore, taint of saidin

4. Breaking of the World

5. weakening of seals/patch

6. destruction of seals (clear the rubble)

7. Dragon et al repair damage of the Bore so that you can no longer tell there was a hole there.  People retain living memory of DO

8. Other ages we know nothing about.  Eventually, get to a point where there's a perfect seal AND no one remembers there's a DO. Rinse & repeat.

 

If the whole opening schtick about this is an age that came before and will come again is at all accurate, then each of these steps must occur, in this order.  LTT was never intended to perfectly seal the DO up.  That wasn't his role in that age.  His role was to create the patch on the Bore & Taint saidin.  If the key to fixing the Bore IS in the presence of 3 ta'veren, the pattern would not create them during the AoL.

 

so every turning is one dragon fails and one dragon succeeds? I would think it more likely that lews therin simply screwed up what he was supposed to do leading to the current problem.

All herid fel said was by the time the wheel turns back to the 2nd age the bore would need to be completely gone.

Lews therin tried to place a seal ontop of the dark one, my theory is that the 2 halfs of the power would mend the pattern itself closing the bore. So neither power would have to touch his prison directly and therefor no tainting.

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We only saw a glimpse of the 'True Power'. It might turn out to be something interesting once it's elaborated, but I thought it was a lame cop-out in The Last That Could Be Done.

 

It was such an intense scene as you wondered "how can he possibly escape?", then out of nowhere some all-powerful void gives him the ability to channel the TP... thru Moridin perhaps?

 

-----

 

We won't see much of Rand in the next book, that is why we saw such character development for him in this one. The next will be developing Perrin and Mat, Elayne/Avi, and Egwene to some extent.

 

Perrin and Mat are not ready for T.G. yet.

 

-----

 

New Rand = The Rand of pre-dumais wells. He won't be soft; he'll be a dynamic character: hard one minute, loving the next, the essence of the hard-working man who comes home after a long day at the office and spends some time with the family.

 

Cadsuane taught him to laugh and cry(poem at the end of book).

 

We won't see much of him until T.G. starts.

 

Also, he will channel the True Power to hold back TDO while saidin/saidar + callandor create new seals. The women, whoever they will be, will create the seal using rands power with callandor, meanwhile he will be channeling the True Power to hold the big bad boy in place.

 

cheers

 

 

 

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so every turning is one dragon fails and one dragon succeeds? I would think it more likely that lews therin simply screwed up what he was supposed to do leading to the current problem.

All herid fel said was by the time the wheel turns back to the 2nd age the bore would need to be completely gone.

Lews therin tried to place a seal ontop of the dark one, my theory is that the 2 halfs of the power would mend the pattern itself closing the bore. So neither power would have to touch his prison directly and therefor no tainting.

 

No I don't think so. The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills. Ta'veren's fates are controlled much more closely than regular people. I find it highly unlikely that the Wheel let Lews Therin screw up. Look at how big of a hand it took in controlling Verin in this last book. And she isn't ta'veren. How could it allow Lews Therin and 113 other threads to do something that went against the plan of the Pattern? I don't think it would/could. I think its simply a case of the Wheel's plan being imperfect this go-around. RJ said it had a fuzzy logic. My guess would be after making this mistake, it has "planned" differently to correct it this time, by spinning out three ta'veren.

 

Secondly, the taint wasn't caused by saidin touching the Dark One. The taint was caused by saidin touching an area where the Dark One could exert enough influence to taint it.

 

Thirdly, the way you are envisioning it, Lews Therin and company sealed the bottom part of the Bore, the part which was connected to the DO's prison. Assuming that this is actually true, which I question, the only difference Rand could make would be to seal the top part of the Bore. That would still result in an unhealed Pattern.

 

Or he could use saidin and saidar to "stitch" it up, but obviously that would require saidin and saidar penetrating the Pattern and thus touching the Prison. Not only would this allow the Dark One to taint both sides, he could chip away at the stitching that lay at the underside of the Pattern until the whole stitched area broke open again.

 

I see no other way. We've never seen saidin or saidar used to push the Pattern in a certain direction (as in, to fill a gap). I don't see why it would be needed, either. Ta'veren-ness does that exact thing.

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Our new Good Hero Rand prepares for TLB.  13 BA complete a ritual to bind him to the Shadow.  The forces of the Light have to use a Domination Band on him (Two Female Aes Sedai linked to control Rand) and force him to wield Callandor against the Shadow at TLB.  These could likely be Nyn and Cad.

 

Well if this happens it consistent with the rest of the series, but I think, hope and wish it doesn't.  A Major player is coming back for the ending and I think she'll have a lot of influence where it matters with Rand.

 

Someone who is leashed cannot link or be linked.

 

Also, why would two females need to be linked to use the Domination Band. Strength doesn't matter. It is 100% effective.

 

Lastly, I'm sure if Rand was on the Dark One's side, he would be permitted access to the True Power, which the Domination Band can't stop.

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Also, he will channel the True Power to hold back TDO while saidin/saidar + callandor create new seals. The women, whoever they will be, will create the seal using rands power with callandor, meanwhile he will be channeling the True Power to hold the big bad boy in place.

 

 

I don't think the True Power would work on the Dark One... afterall, it was revealed somewhere along the way that the True Power is the Dark One's Power himself... it wouldn't make much sense, to me, if it worked against him.

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Someone who is leashed cannot link or be linked.

 

Also, why would two females need to be linked to use the Domination Band. Strength doesn't matter. It is 100% effective.

 

Lastly, I'm sure if Rand was on the Dark One's side, he would be permitted access to the True Power, which the Domination Band can't stop.

 

I think he was referring to the two people wearing the bracelets for the Domination band.  The original Domination band had a collar and 2 bracelets.  There is a scene where one of the foresaken is talking about it and she says something about if you only use one person(who needs both bracelets) eventually they become as trapped as the person in the collar and need their permission to remove the bracelets.  

 

The A'dam is described as being related to a circle and the domination band is essentially a male a'dam  it is not clear if this provides the same abilities as a circle but it is at least plausible.  

 

I Agree 100% on the TP part though he did it once and if he was the DO creature surly he could do it again.

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two things:

 

1. the domination band works like a two way a'dam and eventually the controlled gains some control over the controller

 

2. If anyone wants to look at the entire prophecy of the Dragon im putting it up here

 

 

 

And it shall come to pass that what men made shall be shattered, and the Shadow shall lie across the Pattern of the Age, and the Dark One shall once more lay his hand upon the world of man. Women shall weep and men quail as the nations of the earth are rent like rotting cloth. Neither shall anything stand or abide…

Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before, and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us, yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light. Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation.

On the slopes of Dragonmount shall he be born,

born of a maiden wed to no man.

He will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood.

When the winds of Tarmon Gai’don scour the earth,

he will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world.

Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live, and twice to die.

Once the heron, to set his path.

Twice the heron, to name him true.

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.

Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Red on black, the Dragon’s blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.

Five ride forth, and four return.

Above the Watchers Over the Waves shall he proclaim himself,

bannered ‘cross the sky in fire.

When the Dragon is Reborn he will break all oaths, shatter all ties.

The Stone of Tear will never fall, till Callandor is wielded by the Dragon’s hand.

The Stone of Tear will never fall, till the People of the Dragon come.

Into the heart he thrusts his sword,

into the heart, to hold their hearts.

who draws it out shall follow after,

What hand can grasp that fearful blade?

Power of the Shadow made human flesh,

wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.

The Reborn One, marked and bleeding,

dances the sword in dreams and mist,

chains the Shadowsworn to his will,

from the city, lost and forsaken,

leads the spears to war once more,

breaks the spears and makes them see,

truth long hidden in the ancient dream.

He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf.

With his coming are the dread fires born again.

The hills burn, and the land turns sere.

The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle.

The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised.

Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth.

There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death.

The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.

The seas rage, and stormclouds gather unseen.

Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom.

What was exalted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up.

Order burns to clear his path.

There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow,

for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he is one with the land.

Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield.

He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow.

Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love.

As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men,

and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes.

The trumpets of war shall sound at his footsteps, the ravens feed at his voice,

and he shall wear a crown of swords.

Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm,

wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.

Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time,

may learn the truth too late.

The Seals that hold back the night shall weaken,

and in the heart of winter shall winter’s heart be born,

amid the wailings of lamentations and the gnashing of teeth,

for winter’s heart shall ride a black horse, and the name of it is Death.

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

and all that is, all that was,

and all that will be shall be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.

He shall heal the wounds of madness and cutting of hope.

He shall bind the nine moons to serve him.

The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south.

He shall break the nations, and shatter the world.

His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul,

washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man’s salvation.

Fortune rides like the sun on high

with the fox that makes the ravens fly.

Luck his soul, the lightning his eye,

He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known.

when the Fox marries the raven, and the trumpets of battle are blown.

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I've brought this up before and haven't seen it really discussed, but isn't the state of mind Rand had right before seizing the True Power what Lanfear referenced when she hinted at there being something beyond the Void?  If that is the case, perhaps she knew that state could lead Rand to the True Power?

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so every turning is one dragon fails and one dragon succeeds? I would think it more likely that lews therin simply screwed up what he was supposed to do leading to the current problem.

All herid fel said was by the time the wheel turns back to the 2nd age the bore would need to be completely gone.

Lews therin tried to place a seal ontop of the dark one, my theory is that the 2 halfs of the power would mend the pattern itself closing the bore. So neither power would have to touch his prison directly and therefor no tainting.

 

No I don't think so. The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills. Ta'veren's fates are controlled much more closely than regular people. I find it highly unlikely that the Wheel let Lews Therin screw up. Look at how big of a hand it took in controlling Verin in this last book. And she isn't ta'veren. How could it allow Lews Therin and 113 other threads to do something that went against the plan of the Pattern? I don't think it would/could. I think its simply a case of the Wheel's plan being imperfect this go-around. RJ said it had a fuzzy logic. My guess would be after making this mistake, it has "planned" differently to correct it this time, by spinning out three ta'veren.

 

Secondly, the taint wasn't caused by saidin touching the Dark One. The taint was caused by saidin touching an area where the Dark One could exert enough influence to taint it.

 

Thirdly, the way you are envisioning it, Lews Therin and company sealed the bottom part of the Bore, the part which was connected to the DO's prison. Assuming that this is actually true, which I question, the only difference Rand could make would be to seal the top part of the Bore. That would still result in an unhealed Pattern.

 

Or he could use saidin and saidar to "stitch" it up, but obviously that would require saidin and saidar penetrating the Pattern and thus touching the Prison. Not only would this allow the Dark One to taint both sides, he could chip away at the stitching that lay at the underside of the Pattern until the whole stitched area broke open again.

 

I see no other way. We've never seen saidin or saidar used to push the Pattern in a certain direction (as in, to fill a gap). I don't see why it would be needed, either. Ta'veren-ness does that exact thing.

 

The dark one fears the power so much that he doesnt let his minions channel it at the bore, more so why would the dragon be born a channeler of unmatchable strength if the power had nothing to do with victory.

Finally the shadow warps the pattern allowing even ta'veren to fail, otherwise the dark one would have a 0% chance of victory.

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